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Old 2011-02-14, 17:33   Link #1101
PixelCreek
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That's not his job......
True it's not his job to kill, but when your in a "war" that's usually what you do. (not an excuse for those Ohara people though.) If I was at war with a huge group of pirates im not gonna stop and arrest them :P
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Old 2011-02-14, 17:49   Link #1102
Pwnago
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The admirals has permission to kill pirates, pirates in their information causes the world to be scared (civilians) so they have rights to kill the pirates. Anyway its a war. If no one loses someone then it would be completely stupid and wouldn't be called a war. They can kill who ever they want apart from their own team ofcourse and innocent civilians but they have the right to capture/kill the pirates.
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Old 2011-02-14, 18:27   Link #1103
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They can kill who ever they want apart from their own team ofcourse and innocent civilians
And yet the Akainu you have been defending so ardently has done both..

What do you say to that?

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If I was at war with a huge group of pirates im not gonna stop and arrest them :P
When they have already given up, I hardly think that it can still be called a war..a massacre is more like it.
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Old 2011-02-15, 04:19   Link #1104
MihawkXGP
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
You say that like that is a good thing.

That is only a good thing if the job itself is moral.

I mean, you wouldn't sympathize with a human trafficker who does his job well, now would you?

And Aokiji is a more than competent Admiral, with his own set of values and sense of ethics. I don't know why people talk about Aokiji like hes incompetent.
Not really. If he were actually doing his job - instead of sparing the SH's because he owes Garp a favour.....then so many future embarassing events for the WG wouldn't have happenned.

Kizaru is somewhat lazy too. He didn't even kill off the Supernova he was fighting against - he left them to go get Luffy.

Akainu is a real bastard - but at least he gets the job done, he doesn't allow anything or anyone to get in the way. He spared the WG total humiliation by killing Ace.
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Old 2011-02-15, 12:23   Link #1105
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Not really. If he were actually doing his job - instead of sparing the SH's because he owes Garp a favour.....then so many future embarassing events for the WG wouldn't have happenned.

Kizaru is somewhat lazy too. He didn't even kill off the Supernova he was fighting against - he left them to go get Luffy.
Aokiji's job isn't to spare the WG from embarassment..it is to implement justice, as seen on the back of the marine uniform.

Executing the Strawhats would not be 'just', as at that point they'd only fought against pirates, Crocodile and Enel, and had not yet gone against the WG at all.

Is my assessment correct?

And I agree Kizaru is a lazy bastard, but to be honest, his job was to apprehend Luffy, Kidd and Law,and not to bother with the other Supernovas.
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Old 2011-02-15, 12:55   Link #1106
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
And I agree Kizaru is a lazy bastard, but to be honest, his job was to apprehend Luffy, Kidd and Law,and not to bother with the other Supernovas.
I though he was supposed to go after Luffy only?
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Old 2011-02-15, 15:05   Link #1107
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Executing the Strawhats would not be 'just', as at that point they'd only fought against pirates, Crocodile and Enel, and had not yet gone against the WG at all.

Is my assessment correct?
not quiet. aokiji was after robin, because she was a threat for the WG. the SH got in the way. but i thought we were talking about akainu
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Old 2011-02-15, 15:28   Link #1108
MihawkXGP
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Aokiji's job isn't to spare the WG from embarassment..it is to implement justice, as seen on the back of the marine uniform.

Executing the Strawhats would not be 'just', as at that point they'd only fought against pirates, Crocodile and Enel, and had not yet gone against the WG at all.

Is my assessment correct?

And I agree Kizaru is a lazy bastard, but to be honest, his job was to apprehend Luffy, Kidd and Law,and not to bother with the other Supernovas.
The Marines are the military arm of the World Government. Of course it his job to implement justice in order to spare the WG from being humiliated and being made to look weak and incompetant that could ultimately undermine them and allow the Revolutionary army gain more support.


Even after Enies Lobby - he had the chance to arrest them, AFTER they DECLARED WAR on the World Government. His failure to finish him off, caused the huge embarassments in the future like that which happenned at Impel Down, and during the battle at Marineford itself.

Plus it is Luffy's fault for those Level 6 prisoners escaping in the first place along with Blackbeard - who has now become the most dangerous pirate alive.

Because of them allowing all the prisoners to escape to cause a distraction - Magellan was too busy dealing with them, and in a desperate moment, released Shiliew to deal with Blackbeard, and we all saw how disastrous a decision that turned out to be. That 1 decision changed the very course of history itself.

Akainu has the right idea. He made a vow he would not allow Ace & Luffy to escape - he made good on that promise in the case of Ace. He delivers justice without question. He gets the job done.
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Old 2011-02-15, 17:10   Link #1109
Pwnago
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Ok, lets just say that Akainu can get the job done, but the 2 other admirals can not reall . From the story line the admirals :

Kizaru failed to kill Luffy in the Bubble town !

Aokiji failed to give Robin to the World Government

Now when you look at Akainu's successes. Killed the Civilians in the boat because there might be a chance of Oharan scholar. He killed Ace!

But im not really saying they useless. Ofcourse they are not. They are strong. But they dont seem to be getting their jobs done. Ok fair enough, the admirals battled against the Whitebeard's and won and also protected their team mates, but without Sengoku they would have lost the war.
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Old 2011-02-15, 18:01   Link #1110
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He delivers justice without question. He gets the job done.
I think you have the wrong idea of what justice is.

If you are to be the future President or Prime Minister of my country, I would be very very scared.

You would fit in well in Thailand's military regime, or Venezuela's dictatorship.

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course it his job to implement justice in order to spare the WG from being humiliated and being made to look weak and incompetant that could ultimately undermine them and allow the Revolutionary army gain more support.
The Marines job is to keep the world secure and protect its citizens from injustice. It is supposed to be independent of the World Government, is it not?

Sure it is supposed to be the Government's military arm, but the Government is expected to be just. If the Government itself is corrupt, the Marines have a duty to its citizens to operate in a fair and just manner, which Aokiji has done.

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But they dont seem to be getting their jobs done.
You also seem to have the wrong idea as to what exactly their jobs are.

They are admirals, not assassins. Their job isn't to execute people..thats what terminators are for.
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Old 2011-02-15, 18:40   Link #1111
Pwnago
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
You also seem to have the wrong idea as to what exactly their jobs are.

They are admirals, not assassins. Their job isn't to execute people..thats what terminators are for.
No not really. They are admirals to stop cruelty in the world. This involves KILLING if the pirates refuse to do so or RUN away. If you fight back ofcourse they would kill you, like you are going to shoot a guy with a gun, but a POLICE came and shot your arms or something. Its the same concept. It was like Luffy was fighting against Aokiji to protect Robin but failed. He froze to death, causing him to lose his life. It's like that. Admirals have the right to fight back. What do you think the Admiral's jobs are..?
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Old 2011-02-15, 18:56   Link #1112
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I never said that they didn't have the right to fight. Obviously they do.

But you make it sound as if it is their job to kill. Which is blatantly false.

Quote:

Aokiji failed to give Robin to the World Government

Aokiji failed to hand Robin over because he believed it wasn't the just thing to do. As a Marine Admiral, that is his job. His 'failure' to hand Robin over to the WG was his way of doing his job well.

Which is also what you are condemning, which I am trying to argue against.

Do you get my point now?

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They are admirals to stop cruelty in the world.
The very Akainu whom you praise oh so ardently is the very one who killed a boatload of innocent citizens and his own allies during the war at Marineford. With such actions, he is effectively dishing out cruelty, which according to your definition would be going against what he is supposed to do (which in your words, is to 'stop cruelty in the world'). Thus, he is acting contrary to how he is supposed to. Using your logic, he should be condemned as someone who not only does not do his job well, but hinders the efforts of his fellow marines. Thus he should be judged even more harshly than Kizaru, who may have failed some of his assignments, but at least does not hinder the efforts of others.

Am I right?
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Old 2011-02-15, 19:08   Link #1113
Kuroi Hadou
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Originally Posted by Pwnago View Post
Kizaru failed to kill Luffy in the Bubble town !
Actually Kizaru failed to kill Luffy in Shabaody because both Rayleigh and Kuma intervened. The fight with Rayleigh looked like both of them were playing around, and he didn't have any control over Kuma. The Straw Hat crew would have died several times over if that hadn't happened.

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But im not really saying they useless. Ofcourse they are not. They are strong. But they dont seem to be getting their jobs done. Ok fair enough, the admirals battled against the Whitebeard's and won and also protected their team mates, but without Sengoku they would have lost the war.
... no, they wouldn't have. What did Sengoku do against the Whitebeard Pirates? The only time he did anything useful was against Blackbeard, who was everyone's enemy at the time. True, he knocked Luffy off the platform, but Kizaru (or any other Admiral for that matter) could have easily gotten there and done the same thing.

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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
But you make it sound as if it is their job to kill. Which is blatantly false.
Agreed. Their job is to uphold Justice, however they personally define it. The best example of this would probably be Aokiji during the CP9 Saga. He could have easily destroyed the Straw Hats after he defeated Luffy in one-on-one combat, but he made a promise to Luffy that he would only fight the Captain. Hence, according to his "Lazy Justice", he didn't pursue the crew. Likewise, he allowed Robin to escape from Orhara because he didn't believe it was just to kill her (and as a favor to his friend), and he verbally called out Akainu for attacking the refuge ship they had promised to spare. And even after Enies Lobby, he was right there where everyone was celebrating, and could have easily killed all of them for declaring war against the WG; all he did was tell Robin to live a happy life.
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Old 2011-02-15, 20:10   Link #1114
Kallen4life
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think we've discussed the Akainu's morality thing

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Their job is to uphold Justice, however they personally define it
I'm reasonably sure even admirals HAVE to follow Gorousei's orders (they were personally involved in the Ohara thing and would certainly want Robin brought in) and bring in/kill wanted poster bounty pirates when they get the chance .. posters are issued by the WG/marines, an admiral decides to let a bounty pirate go -> he goes against that


not that I mind, noone's allowed to touch Robin-chan !



I don't really care tbh, it's an anime, he's a villain and he's DAMN GOOD villain, one of the very best I've ever seen (for me - along with BB, DBZ's Cell and FMA:B's Wrath) .. Terminator fits so well lol




awesome episode, I didn't actually realise from the manga that Akainu tore through Jinbei like through Ace and gave Luffy the scar then

also, Croc action yey ! so weird and ironic seeing him protect Luffy and then standing together with the WB pirates .. guess his grudge is gone now that WB's dead
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Old 2011-02-15, 20:20   Link #1115
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Originally Posted by Kallen4life View Post
I'm reasonably sure even admirals HAVE to follow Gorousei's orders (they were personally involved in the Ohara thing and would certainly want Robin brought in) and bring in/kill wanted poster bounty pirates when they get the chance .. posters are issued by the WG/marines, an admiral decides to let a bounty pirate go -> he goes against that
Well to be fair, Kizaru mentioned that the World Nobles were constantly pressuring him to finish the job he started and kill Luffy, and I don't think the Gorosei were even aware of Aokiji's actions.

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I don't really care tbh, it's an anime, he's a villain and he's DAMN GOOD villain, one of the very best I've ever seen (for me - along with BB, DBZ's Cell and FMA:B's Wrath) .. Terminator fits so well lol
Agreed wholeheartedly, especially about Wrath. He was my favorite character in that series, and he was just downright badass. Same applies with Akainu: I love villains who act more like a force of nature than a person with amazing powers.
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Old 2011-02-15, 20:28   Link #1116
Kallen4life
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and I don't think the Gorosei were even aware of Aokiji's actions.
well they knew he left for a ride on his bike ^^ .. if they found out he let SH's and Robin go I don't think they would pat him on the back and say 'gj upholding lazy justice lolz' .. Akainu, on the other hand, likely fits their job description perfectly


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especially about Wrath. He was my favorite character in that series, and he was just downright badass. Same applies with Akainu: I love villains who are more like a force of nature than person with amazing powers.
agreed, from the moment he appeared before that tank with a sword and a grenade to the very end I had to keep picking up my jaw from the floor .. never expected THAT from FMA tbh



one thing I wanna see the most is an anime extended fight of BB vs Sengoku (been wanting this from when it happened in the manga) .. but it's not very likely IMO
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Old 2011-02-15, 20:34   Link #1117
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Originally Posted by Kallen4life View Post
one thing I wanna see the most is an anime extended fight of BB vs Sengoku (been wanting this from when it happened in the manga) .. but it's not very likely IMO
Well maybe. I wasn't expecting Mihawk vs. Jimbei either, so I can see them wanting to show off the Fleet Admiral a bit. Honestly though, I'm more interested in seeing everything Sengoku's DF is capable of.
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Old 2011-02-15, 21:53   Link #1118
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I don't really care tbh, it's an anime, he's a villain and he's DAMN GOOD villain, one of the very best I've ever seen (for me - along with BB, DBZ's Cell and FMA:B's Wrath) .. Terminator fits so well lol
Fair enough, I agree he is a good villain, so extreme in his beliefs and yet vicious in such an endearing manner.

What scares me is how some people (like Pwnago) seem to almost look up to his character.

There is a reason why he is the villain, you know..
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Old 2011-02-16, 04:00   Link #1119
MihawkXGP
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
I think you have the wrong idea of what justice is.

If you are to be the future President or Prime Minister of my country, I would be very very scared.

You would fit in well in Thailand's military regime, or Venezuela's dictatorship.
I was only stating the obvious - not that i actually agree with that nutter.


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Sure it is supposed to be the Government's military arm, but the Government is expected to be just. If the Government itself is corrupt, the Marines have a duty to its citizens to operate in a fair and just manner, which Aokiji has done.
1 of the job descriptions of the Admirals is to punish those that stand up to the Tenryubito, who stand completely above the law - they can do as they please and no one can touch them. The World is corrupt.
There is nothing just about the government or the Marines, that were willing to completely overlook DoFlamingo's slave trading right under their very noses.


No question he has done his job up to a certain point, but that doesn't include letting a dangerous person like Luffy running wild in the sea.

Because of Luffy - many dangerous pirates from Impel Down i.e the Lvl 6 Prisoners, have now been released back on to the open sea.


Quote:
You also seem to have the wrong idea as to what exactly their jobs are.

They are admirals, not assassins. Their job isn't to execute people..thats what terminators are for.
Their job is to rid the sea of pirates, and if that means killing them - then so be it. Though that being said, the WG has created its own army of "Terminators" the Pacifista's.

Last edited by MihawkXGP; 2011-02-16 at 04:10.
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Old 2011-02-16, 06:49   Link #1120
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Originally Posted by MihawkXGP View Post
Their job is to rid the sea of pirates, and if that means killing them - then so be it.
I thought their job was to kill anyone the World Government told them to?
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