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Old 2009-05-11, 06:08   Link #481
Gooral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
He asked but you are making it out like he asked Ed nicely or something, look at his eye and Ed's Roy is clearly blinded by revenge. The way he asked Ed is more in the line of ordering or commanding him to do so. Also the line that is boded is really ironic. (...)
No I'm not making it out like he asked nicely. I've written only that he asked, nothing more. He could have burned Envy without Ed's permission so clearly to me he's not blinded by revenge (because if he were he wouldn't ask).
Quote:
(...) he wants to kill Envy because of what he did in Ishbal and Roy fighting Envy, Scars, and Scar imply this? (...)
I didn't write this. What I wrote is: for the same reasons he tried to kill Lust, Scar and Gluttony he would kill Envy even if he didn't know he was the one that killed his friend. Revenge was his main motivation for it but only main. I doubt he was that cold of a person he wouldn't care about other people killed by Envy or about her being potential danger. Anger doesn't work that way that you suddenly forget about everything and focus only on the biggest source of revenge, maybe you've never experienced such emotion. So you can't know what Mustang is thinking. Knowing him he wouldn't forget about Envy's other evil deeds. Although after reading recent chapter it looks like Riza disagrees with me and even though she shouldn't know what Roy is thinking it may be that these are Arakawa's words (i.e. she really reads in his mind, that's what I meant by "arakawa's words"). Well, I for one am not convinced by it, it's too naive way of thinking IMO. 95th chapter disappointed me a bit mainly because of how Envy's case was resolved. Mustang could have killed Envy and it shouldn't influence him one bit but because it's manga for kids we've got to have moral: "revenge is bad and you can't kill the bad guys even if they deserve it. Just wait until someone else kills him for you or they kill themselves".
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Old 2009-05-11, 09:13   Link #482
tzia_n
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Mustang VS Envy wasn't as good as Mustang VS Lust

Al and the gang VS Pride and Kimblee was better IMO
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Old 2009-05-11, 10:35   Link #483
Sannom
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Quote:
Mustang VS Envy wasn't as good as Mustang VS Lust
I never liked Mustang's fight anyways, not epic enough, it's too much one-sided, either on Roy's side or on his foe's side

Man, the Armstrong fights in the last three chapter were much more epic and enjoyable to look
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Old 2009-05-11, 13:42   Link #484
Umaibo
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I actually always like Mustang's fights. "Mustang vs. Lust" and "Mustang vs. artificial soldier" were awesome. It is so cool how he burns through everything. That said, I love all the fights in the FMA manga.

With Envy taken care of, the main team will head towards Father's chamber. I can't wait for what is going to happen next. Sloth should almost be running out of lives. I can't wait to see what the Armstrong duo will do next. And now, the Briggs and housewife is inside the HQ. Ahhhh. I can't wait!!!!!
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Old 2009-05-11, 16:01   Link #485
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Talking about Sloth, don't you think he's suddenly softer??? I don't think Armstrong's spikes should have pierced him like that. The time before that, it was because Akex got him at full speed and he seemed to be much more vulnerable in that state., but now it just looks like Arakawa wants Armstrong to show off!

I loved Scar's lines in that chapter, what he said to Mustang was absolutely mean!
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Old 2009-05-11, 16:14   Link #486
Umaibo
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Originally Posted by Sannom View Post
Talking about Sloth, don't you think he's suddenly softer??? I don't think Armstrong's spikes should have pierced him like that.
He cut up Sloth body with the spiked knuckles first, then he stabbed those wounds with the ground spikes. It is the same logic as page 25 of chapter 92. Only the skin is tough. Once you can cut it open, you can damage the interior as much as you like.
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Old 2009-05-11, 16:26   Link #487
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*Facepalm* Yeah, you're right, I didn't think about that.
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Old 2009-05-11, 16:41   Link #488
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
No I'm not making it out like he asked nicely. I've written only that he asked, nothing more. He could have burned Envy without Ed's permission so clearly to me he's not blinded by revenge (because if he were he wouldn't ask).
Ok that just made absolutely no sense, you are saying Roy didn't burn him because he wasn't blinded by his anger? First of all the writer did that to create dramatic effect and cliffhanger for the next chapter. Second Roy is blinded by his anger look at his eye and his actions. The author didn't draw the eye like that by accident it was to show his anger, even against Lust he didn't show this type of anger. And look at what he says in this chapter he wanted to kill him humiliatingly unlike Lust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
I didn't write this. What I wrote is: for the same reasons he tried to kill Lust, Scar and Gluttony he would kill Envy even if he didn't know he was the one that killed his friend. Revenge was his main motivation for it but only main. I doubt he was that cold of a person he wouldn't care about other people killed by Envy or about her being potential danger.
So you finally realized that he attacked Envy because of his anger. And what you stated is so obvious is that it is unnecessary to point out, of course Roy would attack his enemy, if he didn't who would he attack, his friends? And trust me Roy is not that self righteous, he knows that Envy killed many people but he doesn't care about them because he doesn't know them. If a there was a mudrder who killed tens of people you wouldn't feel angry or really care if nobody you knew was invovled. Same with Roy he doesn't care what Envy did besides murdering Hughes.
Seriously if your entire point was that Roy wasn't blinded by his anger because he attacked Envy because he is a potential danger or some would say an enemy, well then no shit Sherlock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
Anger doesn't work that way that you suddenly forget about everything and focus only on the biggest source of revenge, maybe you've never experienced such emotion.
Anger works like that, people do commit murder because of anger even though they know it is wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
So you can't know what Mustang is thinking. Knowing him he wouldn't forget about Envy's other evil deeds. Although after reading recent chapter it looks like Riza disagrees with me and even though she shouldn't know what Roy is thinking it may be that these are Arakawa's words (i.e. she really reads in his mind, that's what I meant by "arakawa's words"). Well, I for one am not convinced by it, it's too naive way of thinking IMO. 95th chapter disappointed me a bit mainly because of how Envy's case was resolved. Mustang could have killed Envy and it shouldn't influence him one bit but because it's manga for kids we've got to have moral: "revenge is bad and you can't kill the bad guys even if they deserve it. Just wait until someone else kills him for you or they kill themselves".
First of all FMA is not for kids. Second, if Roy killed Envy he would be basically stooping down to their level and would be no better than Envy. If Roy really did kill him he would be going against his personal belief and would be no better than Wrath.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sannom View Post
I never liked Mustang's fight anyways, not epic enough, it's too much one-sided, either on Roy's side or on his foe's side

Man, the Armstrong fights in the last three chapter were much more epic and enjoyable to look
Well I agree with the Armstrong statement, he is really ba. And can't wait Izumi to fight .
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Old 2009-05-11, 17:16   Link #489
Vicious108
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I don't care for that silly argument, but for the love of crap, stop refering to Envy as a she.

Anyways, I came here to read people's opinions on chapter 95, but I guess most people are still too stuck on 94?

Spoiler for Chapter 95:
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Old 2009-05-11, 17:38   Link #490
Foreshadow
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Armstrong's battle (both of them) was really cool.
Spoiler for 95:
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Old 2009-05-11, 17:52   Link #491
Vicious108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foreshadow View Post
Armstrong's battle (both of them) was really cool.
Spoiler for 95:
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-05-11, 20:14   Link #492
Kirarakim
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I absolutely loved 95, but then again I love every chapter without fail.

I see some people complaining about
Spoiler:
but honestly I feel it fits the character perfectly.

Also the Roy/Riza scenes were just fantastic

Not to mention yay
Spoiler:


Oh and now I am finally reading the translation even Ed mentioned how scary Roy's face looked. Also Ed mentioned all the themes I love in this series in this chapter. Picking yourself up when you are beaten and if you can't those close to you will do it for you.

edit: And OMG that Armstrong fight was epic!

Last edited by Kirarakim; 2009-05-11 at 20:37.
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Old 2009-05-11, 20:25   Link #493
solomon
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Yea, I understand the first point Kirarakim pointed out, but narratively it's well worn and appropriate.

Boy howdy, does Arasawa sensei rock!
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Old 2009-05-11, 22:17   Link #494
Vicious108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I see some people complaining about
Spoiler:
but honestly I feel it fits the character perfectly.
Indeed.

Spoiler for Long:
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Old 2009-05-11, 22:33   Link #495
yezhanquan
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Well, at least he "solved" the problem. Those who are gathered there seriously needs a beer or coffee.

Time for Izumi to work her alchemy. It's been a while.
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Old 2009-05-12, 02:19   Link #496
surerman
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4 me the most attractive part of this newest chapter is
Spoiler for Scar:

It's hook me hard.

We, Human just like Scar says. When we follow our emotion with out Brain & Heart will turn to be a monster,The most Deadly One in this Galaxy
Since our species come to this planet surface, so much blood and tears shed not only by other creature in very same environment as we are, but also our own species.
We kill each other, dancing in the pool of blood.
Cassie from Animorph novel (K.A. Applegate) once says: "the colour of our world is not Green,but Red, Bloody Red"
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Old 2009-05-12, 02:28   Link #497
Gooral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Ok that just made absolutely no sense, you are saying Roy didn't burn him because he wasn't blinded by his anger?
The statement below is explicit:
He could have burned Envy without Ed's permission so clearly to me he's not blinded by revenge (because if he were he wouldn't ask).
means he wasn't BLINDED by revenge NOT that he wasn't angry! Blinded by something means that someone doesn't think straight at all. I would call him blinded by revenge if he acted like Scar did and didn't mind burning innocent people without giving them a chance to get the hell out of his way. Mustang was perfectly aware of his surroundings, he was methodical, didn't fall for Envy's tricks and watched out so he wouldn't burn anyone else (Ed or other shrimps).
Quote:
First of all the writer did that to create dramatic effect and cliffhanger for the next chapter. Second Roy is blinded by his anger look at his eye and his actions. The author didn't draw the eye like that by accident it was to show his anger, even against Lust he didn't show this type of anger. And look at what he says in this chapter he wanted to kill him humiliatingly unlike Lust.
This cliffhanger made it obvious that Mustang won't kill Envy (because of the reasons I already mentioned a couple of times), if she wanted Envy to be killed by Mustang she would have done it earlier. Further, I'm looking at Roy and I see no difference than from the time when he was fighting Lust, only he shouts more because everyone is interfering with his actions. When he was fighting Lust he could fry her without problems. And of course Arakawa drew his eyes to show anger Scherlock, thanks for stating the obvious. His eyes are the same, his expression is different because he shouts. Every one of them is disturbing him, I would be additionally annoyed too.

Quote:
So you finally realized that he attacked Envy because of his anger. And what you stated is so obvious is that it is unnecessary to point out, of course Roy would attack his enemy, if he didn't who would he attack, his friends?
Finally? Can't you read with comprehension? I've written exact same thing in my previous posts starting from here. And from what I see it's not obvious to you he would attack Envy. My point is (I'm shocked I even have to explain such obvious statement to you) he already had plenty of reasons to kill Envy and revenge was ONE OF the reasons. And from your point of view why would he attack Envy? If it didn't attack anyone then he would leave him alone, lol.

Quote:
And trust me Roy is not that self righteous, he knows that Envy killed many people but he doesn't care about them because he doesn't know them. If a there was a mudrder who killed tens of people you wouldn't feel angry or really care if nobody you knew was invovled. Same with Roy he doesn't care what Envy did besides murdering Hughes.
I won't "trust you". You can think anyway you want, that's your prerogative but you're not alpha and omega and you can't know what Roy is thinking. And I think you've used the wrong word. Self-righteous means piously sure of one's own righteousness and I didn't write that.
But he is righteous. After all he did care about Ishvalans and executed orders in contradiction to his own judgement. Now he wants to be judged for his war crimes after he becomes fuhrer. What's more he wanted to know the secrets of alchemy to PROTECT people. So yes, I think he cares about all people not only the ones closest to him.
And on a side note. You don't know me, so please refrain from writing statements that say otherwise. To me people like this boxer are heroes. Whenever I hear that something like this happens, or when someone is murdered I do care, although not as much as I would have if someone close to me was a victim.
Quote:
Seriously if your entire point was that Roy wasn't blinded by his anger because he attacked Envy because he is a potential danger or some would say an enemy, well then no shit Sherlock.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Firstly, you can't read with comprehension.
The first time, the same words that you've interpreted now as: "if your entire point was that Roy wasn't blinded by his anger because he attacked Envy because he is a potential danger or some would say an enemy"
you've interpreted: This part just doesn't make sense, he wants to kill Envy because of what he did in Ishbal and Roy fighting Envy, Scars, and Scar imply this?

In both cases you're wrong. In the first statement you're putting into my words that I was writing about him being blinded. I wasn't. I was answering a question that has such obvious answer and it was asked by you Sherlock. Your second statement on the other hand doesn't make ANY sense, you're mentioning Envy (I didn't write he wants to kill Envy because he was fighting Envy, lol) and Scar two times (seriusly, Scars and Scar?), WTF?

You asked:
Where are the implications that he is going after Envy because of what Envy did?

and I answered:

It's simple. He tried to kill Lust, Scar, Gluttony and others because they were a threat. For the same reasons he would kill Envy even if he didn't know he was the one that killed his friend. Revenge is just another reason to do it. And in my previous post I've presented additional arguments to supprt my statement he wasn't blinded by revenge (i.e. he was methodical, etc.). If you have such short memory that you forget about everything immediately, write it down.

The fact is, Envy was a threat, Envy was a MASS MURDERER at that and he deserved to die regardless of what he did to Hughes. If Mustang was willing to kill Gluttony, Scar and Lust without blinking an eye then judging by his previous actions he would have gone after Envy for the same reasons. HERE is this implication. You don't have to be a genius to notice that, do you?

Quote:
Anger works like that, people do commit murder because of anger even though they know it is wrong.
lol
Again you're stating the obvious ad neglecting my point. I'm writing that anger is and additive emotion (i.e. if a woman was killed it wouldn't make her husband as angry as if she was raped and killed) and you're writing that it blinds people. Get a grip man!

Quote:
First of all FMA is not for kids. Second, if Roy killed Envy he would be basically stooping down to their level and would be no better than Envy. If Roy really did kill him he would be going against his personal belief and would be no better than Wrath.
Of course it is manga for children. Even by definition, it's shounen after all. There are no elements here that 12 year old teenager wouldn't understand and there are many elements that are primitive (e.g. humour). The plot is very simple and in every volume you can see moral: killing is bad, revenge is bad, work dignifies, maternity is a blessing, trying to oppose laws of nature has consequences etc. etc. which is obvious to anyone with years of experience. The protagonist is a kid that always succeeds and never has to dirty his hands. Even in newest chapter Envy killed himself so that Mustang wouldn't be "consumed by hatred" (which is naive way of thinking if we take into account what he did in Ishval) or anyone else would have to stain their hands in blood.
Of course it doesn't mean it's bad. It has elements that attract older people too but trying to deny that it is manga for children is a naive way of thinking.
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Old 2009-05-12, 06:18   Link #498
Spectacular_Insanity
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Oh snap, it's Izumi! It's on now.
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Old 2009-05-12, 07:38   Link #499
tzia_n
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I'd rather have Envy remained bitter as he died. Rather than admit that Edward understood him, I think it would be better if he exploded and went on a rant telling Edward like "How the hell do you claim to understand me" and such. But as it is, it is good enough IMO...
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Old 2009-05-12, 08:38   Link #500
Vicious108
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Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity View Post
Oh snap, it's Izumi! It's on now.
Considering Izumi and Olivia are now in the same place and we might even get to see those two fearsome women teaming up, yes it's definitely on now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tzia_n View Post
I'd rather have Envy remained bitter as he died. Rather than admit that Edward understood him, I think it would be better if he exploded and went on a rant telling Edward like "How the hell do you claim to understand me" and such. But as it is, it is good enough IMO...
Envy had probably been hiding and holding in that shameful side of his his own life, so he most likely couldn't take it anymore and thus just let it all out before the very end... in a very Envy-ish way of course.
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