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Old 2010-03-15, 15:33   Link #1501
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
as expected, deus ex machina explanation of how to revive everyone.
Ah yes deus ex machina the favorite saying of those who don't pay attention to the details of the story (sorry the over usage of this term is just one of my pet peeves)

As others have said we knew Hohenheim has been planning things for months (actually it's probably been more like years). We've also known about the strong connection between the body & the soul well before Hohenheim told it to us again in this chapter.


Anyways as awesome the Bradley/Scar finale was in this chapter. I think my favorite moment was Ed & Al supporting Hohenheim. I love the whole thing of the kids & adults working together in FMA & it has an added layer of them supporting each other like a family (despite the fact that the relationship has been broken for so long).

I also loved Mei in this chapter, but then I always love Mei.
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Old 2010-03-16, 01:03   Link #1502
Vicious108
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
How do you know that the Brotherhood team didn't decide how long the anime should be based on the information Arakawa gave them.
I don't know, I'm just guessing. But if I'm wrong and this is really how Arakawa intended for it to happen from the start, then I'm even more disappointed.

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Originally Posted by Kirarakim
Things are moving faster but I don't think it was a detriment to any scene.
Well, let's face it, you're pretty much incapable of saying anything bad about FMA ever.

As I'm sure you've noticed by now I rarely do as well and think very highly of it, but this chapter just didn't do it for me.

And the main reason would be Father. I'd always thought he was much too underexposed and underdeveloped to be the final villain of the series, yet when chapter 104 ended I was sure Arakawa would make up for it in the following chapter. He'd just made god a part of himself, it was his time to shine and prove that he was a worthy villain after all.

Yet just 25 pages later, he's already nerfed back to normal, making his so called godhood pretty much pointless. I mean we got absolutely nothing out of his character. No motives. Why did he seek to obtain god's power? What did he intend to use it for? Why did he take on that form? Nothing. It's like Arakawa's telling us that the main villain's character doesn't even matter. That he's only there to serve as a foil for the heroes and make them look good when they inevitably defeat him.

I suppose since he's not down just yet, there is still a slight chance for him to prove himself as a worthy final boss, but at the (rushed) pace this is going, I highly doubt it. I fully expect Pride to be taken care of within the first 25 pages next chapter and by the end of it Father should neatly and easily follow him. Poor guy, he had less screentime than pretty much all of his flunkies and his awaited moment of glory lasted like... 15 pages.

So yeah, that's why. Another thing I didn't like was FMA suddenly turning into DBZ of course. Kamehames and Spirit Bombs were all over the chapter and, well, it just didn't feel right.

It wasn't all bad, since the parts with Wrath and Scar were pretty good, but still, everything is going as expected. For a series pretty much famous for its unpredictability, the ending sure is following the most obvious route.

Chapter 104 was the perfect example of how FMA sets itself apart from its fellow shounen series, yet this one did everything like one. That last page just reeked of generic shounen hero's comeback too.

I don't know... maybe I expected too much. I'll wait and see what happens next chapter.
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Old 2010-03-16, 14:44   Link #1503
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
Well, let's face it, you're pretty much incapable of saying anything bad about FMA ever
Well if I am incapable of saying anything bad about this manga it's because I have nothing bad to say. But it was not just me, pretty much everyone else seems to have disagreed with you as well on here. I am sure there are people out there that do agree but this is an opinion not fact. And I feel the chapter was as epic as always because that is how I feel not because I am incapable of seeing anything bad. Do I have to find fault if I enjoy what I read?

A few months ago people complained that scenes were dragged out now you are complaining that scenes are too rushed. Well you obviously can't please everyone all the time.

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No motives. Why did he seek to obtain god's power?
I don't know what motivation he would need. He always wanted more and more. First to get out of the flask, then to have a body to move around, to become human like and "have" children, then to become a perfect being. I don't think there needs to be any deep explanation other than that. And I think quigonkenny gave a perfect explanation of why things moved so quickly.

Sorry it would be typical shounen if Father gloated and waited for them to come up with a counter attack instead he attacked immediately and Hohenheim naturally started his counterattack because there was no time to waste. This is a matter of life & death and the pace should be fast to reflect that.

edit: Changed most powerful being to perfect being since I think that describes it better.
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Old 2010-03-16, 15:15   Link #1504
Kirarakim
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Actually I would also like to have a few explanations on father's motive. Simply wanting more and more doesn't seem to make much sense, considering that he got rid of his greed a long time ago.
I don't think he is greedy in the way Greed is. He doesn't want everything. He just desired to be a perfect being, what's more perfect than god? But if you look it seems it was a natural progression from the thing in the flask, to a human body, to god. He was also able to patiently carry out his plan all these years which doesn't make me think he is greedy. I feel someone who is greedy wants everything and they want it now.

And what he wanted was hinted a long time ago back in chapter 53 when Ed looked at the mural that said "bring god down to Earth".



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And there is still the mystery of his origins: Where exactly did he come from and how did he gain his vast knowledge of alchemy.
Well the manga isn't over quite yet.
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Old 2010-03-16, 16:16   Link #1505
zebra
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WOA.

I mean ... WOA! :O

"Any Last Words?"
"None!"

I don't have any either ... just epic.
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Old 2010-03-16, 17:25   Link #1506
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Well the manga isn't over quite yet.
I still get the sinking feeling that we'll never find out (i guess i'd just kinda like it that way), though that isn't really Arakawa's style. If we're going to find out, then i'm sure it'll be towards the end of Father's destruction. If it plays out that way that is.
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Old 2010-03-16, 17:53   Link #1507
Kirarakim
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I still get the sinking feeling that we'll never find out (i guess i'd just kinda like it that way), though that isn't really Arakawa's style. If we're going to find out, then i'm sure it'll be towards the end of Father's destruction. If it plays out that way that is.
I don't know either way. Mind you I don't have any specific expectations (which is maybe why I am never disappointed).

I always had a feeling that Father was somehow once associated with the Doors of Truth.
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Old 2010-03-16, 17:59   Link #1508
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Mind you I don't have any specific expectations (which is maybe why I am never disappointed).
I'm in the same boat as you in that one, though saying that it's how i've always been when it comes to different titles and such. Best way to be i guess.

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I always had a feeling that Father was somehow once associated with the Doors of Truth.
Would be an interesting connection, plus it would save something completely new being brought into the story to explain Father's original creation. Not that i would mind something new, though with only a few chapters left, it may save sometime. We shall see anyway.
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Old 2010-03-16, 18:54   Link #1509
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Well if I am incapable of saying anything bad about this manga it's because I have nothing bad to say. But it was not just me, pretty much everyone else seems to have disagreed with you as well on here. I am sure there are people out there that do agree but this is an opinion not fact. And I feel the chapter was as epic as always because that is how I feel not because I am incapable of seeing anything bad. Do I have to find fault if I enjoy what I read?
Nope. I just meant that you not finding the pacing a detriment to any scene isn't saying much when that is always the case for you.

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I don't know what motivation he would need. He always wanted more and more. First to get out of the flask, then to have a body to move around, to become human like and "have" children, then to become a perfect being. I don't think there needs to be any deep explanation other than that.
Well I do. He's just boring and flat this way. Not to mention extremely unimpressive for a final boss when his trump card only lasts like 15 pages.

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And I think quigonkenny gave a perfect explanation of why things moved so quickly.
Well his view is a valid one, but unfortunately I don't read my dark fantasy manga for realism. I read it for interesting characters and conflict, which could've been better handled in this chapter.

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Sorry it would be typical shounen if Father gloated and waited for them to come up with a counter attack instead he attacked immediately and Hohenheim naturally started his counterattack because there was no time to waste. This is a matter of life & death and the pace should be fast to reflect that.
Father didn't even consider the possibility of Hohenheim having a counterattack like that anyway, so it would've been perfectly understandable for him to make a grand villain speech in order to give us some insight on his character that has always been so underdeveloped. But no, he didn't say much at all besides "LOL I KILL YOU ALL!" which makes him rather forgettable. No one will remember FMA's bad guys for Father. Wrath will be the one people will remember, and he probably would've been a better final opponent too.
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Old 2010-03-16, 19:02   Link #1510
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
Father didn't even consider the possibility of Hohenheim having a counterattack like that anyway, so it would've been perfectly understandable for him to make a grand villain speech in order to give us some insight on his character that has always been so underdeveloped. But no, he didn't say much at all besides "LOL I KILL YOU ALL!" which makes him rather forgettable. No one will remember FMA's bad guys for Father. Wrath will be the one people will remember, and he probably would've been a better final opponent too.
I have to admit, I never found Father very interesting at all. We never got to learn much about him, and as Twilight mentioned, when his godly state only lasted half a chapter... It's sad that his minions, the Seven Sins, were so much more compelling than he is. I would've been happier if Wrath was the boss, he was a great villain - he was badass, intimidating, and we actually knew something about him. Father's rather... generic and boring, IMO, compared to his children.
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Old 2010-03-16, 21:19   Link #1511
Stefkov
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Chapter 105 felt like it was going to last forever. So many pages. I'm glad Father didn't mess about and tried to finish everyone off quickly. But then Hohenheim comes and acts all cool.
I didn't really think the 'everyone can have their soul back all nice and easy' was too bad. It's got to end, and yet she's delivering 60+ pages. That's like an extra chapter when she's done another 3 chapters, if she carries on delivering that many pages.

I'm really feeling sad for Roy, he's my favourite character and yet he's just... blind. Shame he can't just kick some arse now that Father has been weakened.

What Hohenheim was saying about the souls going back to their bodies like magnets I thought what would Al's situation be like? His body has been untouched, sat waiting for him. I wonder how they're gonna get it back. And I wonder if Ed actually does get back his arm and leg. This is why this whole quest started in the first place... ha.
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Old 2010-03-16, 21:33   Link #1512
quigonkenny
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
Father didn't even consider the possibility of Hohenheim having a counterattack like that anyway, so it would've been perfectly understandable for him to make a grand villain speech in order to give us some insight on his character that has always been so underdeveloped. But no, he didn't say much at all besides "LOL I KILL YOU ALL!" which makes him rather forgettable. No one will remember FMA's bad guys for Father. Wrath will be the one people will remember, and he probably would've been a better final opponent too.
Well, what do you expect? He's got no (or at least diminished) pride, wrath, lust, greed, gluttony, envy, or sloth. Of course he's going to be boring. The Catholic Church may call those the Seven Sins, but in a storybook villain, they're called "character". ^_^

And speaking of character, I disagree with your characterization of FMA as a "dark fantasy". It's a fantasy where dark things happen (just like—hello!—reality), and that is most definitely not the same thing. There has always been a strong undercurrent of hope, redemption, and forgiveness, from Ed and Al searching for their bodies, to Rosť and her fellow Liorans rising up from a horrible situation they arguably allowed themselves to be put in, to Scar's saving an entire country full of people whose leaders destroyed his own people. When you get down to it, the dark things (the Tuckers come to mind) are by far the exception. I think that when people look back at this series, the defining moment won't be the death of Maes Hughes, or Greed coming to terms with his humanity, or the final battle, it'll be Envy killing himself out of disgust after Ed proved himself nowhere near the monster the little parasite always assumed all humans were.

Well, that or the last Bradley fight (yes I'm calling him "Bradley", not "Wrath", as it's no coincidence that the most human of all the Homunculi was hardest to kill). God, does that have the opportunity to be glorious once it gets animated... ^_^

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Originally Posted by Stefkov View Post
I'm really feeling sad for Roy, he's my favourite character and yet he's just... blind. Shame he can't just kick some arse now that Father has been weakened.
Don't worry. I guarantee he's got at least one more CMoA left in him. Only question is what form it takes.
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Old 2010-03-16, 21:47   Link #1513
Kirarakim
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Nope. I just meant that you not finding the pacing a detriment to any scene isn't saying much when that is always the case for you.
So basically anytime I praise the manga it doesn't mean anything because it's just blind praise? What you are ignoring is if I didn't like something that happened I would say so. It's not like I am forced to praise the chapters all the time. I genuinely am always impressed with them and this chapter is no exception. I am not saying your opinion is invalid (no opinion is) but I just disagree with it.


On another note I do agree that Wrath turned out to be the best villain in the series. That doesn't mean I dislike Father (I even find something humorous in his emotionless state and how he takes everything so calmly). Just in comparison to Father, Wrath was the more compelling villain. But so what? I don't think there is a rule that the main villain has to be the most interesting.

As for Father my favorite thing about him was when he compared humans to bugs. He doesn't think of himself as evil just like we don't when we crush those little things under our feet. Father obviously looks at himself way above humans. The only thing they are useful for is his own needs.
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Old 2010-03-16, 22:03   Link #1514
quigonkenny
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As for Father my favorite thing about him was when he compared humans to bugs. He doesn't think of himself as evil just like we don't when we crush those little things under our feet. Father obviously looks at himself way above humans. The only thing they are useful for is his own needs.
He said it this chapter. They're "fuel".
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Old 2010-03-16, 22:30   Link #1515
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So basically anytime I praise the manga it doesn't mean anything because it's just blind praise? What you are ignoring is if I didn't like something that happened I would say so. It's not like I am forced to praise the chapters all the time. I genuinely am always impressed with them and this chapter is no exception. I am not saying your opinion is invalid (no opinion is) but I just disagree with it.
Yeah I'd already gotten that. You were the one who felt the need to start arguing with me, not the other way around. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree.

And that's just how it is, if a person tends to praise every single chapter as amazing and flawless then I tend to assume that their standards aren't very high. Sorry if that offends you.

Quote:
On another note I do agree that Wrath turned out to be the best villain in the series. That doesn't mean I dislike Father (I even find something humorous in his emotionless state and how he takes everything so calmly). Just in comparison to Father, Wrath was the more compelling villain. But so what? I don't think there is a rule that the main villain has to be the most interesting.
They don't have to be the MOST interesting, but they should still be interesting and compelling enough to fill in such an important role, as well as efficient and challenging. But like I've explained so many times before now, Father's moments of glory and dominance over the heroes were extremely short lived and thus unimpressive, making him a rather a rather disappointing final boss. We know so little about him and what drives him to do and seek the things he does.

It's not just Wrath either. Kimblee, Envy and Pride too were much more interesting and compelling antagonists and that is reflected in their much higher popularity amongst the fans. Like I said, Father had always been underdeveloped and underexposed, so he really needed a good showing in this final showdown to prove himself worthy of his important position in the story. But unfortunately he didn't get it. This chapter did absolutely nothing for his character. He's basically just an avatar of generic evil for the heroes to beat up and look cool doing it. Like Gluttony was.

And yes you have the right to disagree with that, but it's very clear to me that that's how it is.

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As for Father my favorite thing about him was when he compared humans to bugs.
Yeah I liked that too, but it's just not enough.
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Old 2010-03-17, 01:43   Link #1516
Kirarakim
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And that's just how it is, if a person tends to praise every single chapter as amazing and flawless then I tend to assume that their standards aren't very high. Sorry if that offends you.
It's not that I think every chapter is perfect but I don't harp on what I find unimportant.

As for Father no I don't find him to be the deepest villain of all time but he was still a fun villain for me. I don't really care that you don't think Father is a worthy enough adversary.

Nor do I agree that it's all about the characters looking cool defeating Father. It's about why they defeat Father not how. Scenes like Ed & Al supporting their dad, Scar being the one to activate the circle that brings back alchemy symbolize a lot for me and highlight why I love the series.
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Old 2010-03-17, 07:25   Link #1517
duckroll
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The FMA manga is really good. I love the way Arakawa storyboards her fights. There way the panels flow, and the action transitions, make the fights very entertaining to read. I'm not posting as much as I should about FMA, but mostly because I've completely stopped following Brotherhood, and I don't really want to comment on the manga much from month to month because it's clear that this is one continuous finale arc and I think I'll reverse my comments and analysis for the manga when it concludes and I can dissect the best parts which worked, and the weakest parts which didn't quite meet my expectations.

Either way, this month's chapter definitely ties things up quite a bit and it's clear we're pretty much at the climax now. The question is whether I get to see Ed beat Pride up so badly he runs to daddy and cries... literally.
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Old 2010-03-17, 15:44   Link #1518
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Speaking of Pride, I wonder if he'll learn of Wrath's death and what his reaction would be. I mean since he does care for his mother then I'd assume that his father would also be slightly important to him.

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Well, that or the last Bradley fight (yes I'm calling him "Bradley", not "Wrath", as it's no coincidence that the most human of all the Homunculi was hardest to kill). God, does that have the opportunity to be glorious once it gets animated... ^_^
I call him Wrath because that's how his brethren refer to him so it's what he would have wanted to be called, with his pride in being a homunculus and all.
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Old 2010-03-17, 16:34   Link #1519
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Speaking of Pride, I wonder if he'll learn of Wrath's death and what his reaction would be. I mean since he does care for his mother then I'd assume that his father would also be slightly important to him.
I don't know if he'd care for his Father in the same way he cares for his Mother, seeing as though the relationship between the two is more that of Brothers.
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Old 2010-03-17, 19:02   Link #1520
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I don't know if he'd care for his Father in the same way he cares for his Mother, seeing as though the relationship between the two is more that of Brothers.
With his "father" being his little brother, to boot.
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