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View Poll Results: Shippuden - Episode 168 Rating
Perfect 10 13 30.23%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 14 32.56%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 6 13.95%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 9.30%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 6.98%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 2.33%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful like after a full cup of coffee and a traffic jam 2 4.65%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-07-15, 17:45   Link #21
Nosauz
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
It's still extremely stupid for Minato to appear (especially since he serves no specific purpose besides some exposition andsome emotional value (that feels forced and contrived)). But, the Pain fight is over. Now all that is left is the Nagato battle.

edit: In regards to the discussion of Pain's defeat; I think the issue is compounded by the fact that Pain, just last episode, had his neck broken at least twice (probably more), and was able to sustain extreme violence from the Kyuubi itself before finally defeating the beast. But now in this episode, Pain is taken down in one or two hits. Claiming Nagato is weak and tired is the official excuse (from the manga as well), but the vast difference in ability from 167 to 168 makes the ending seem even more anti-climatic.
In the manga it feels a lot more poignant, but in the show with the dark cage, in all the times that it's been animated has it ever been so dark. When sasuke first meets the kyuubi it is no where that dark. Overall most of the dialogue between minato and naruto didn't translate that well from manga to anime, as in the anime there are many more ways to bring tensions, and swell emotions which the directors just chose not to do.
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Old 2010-07-15, 19:26   Link #22
TheCoconutChef
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That was some very intense staring.
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Old 2010-07-15, 20:48   Link #23
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PPL dont forget Pain was tired... Yes he was defeated in a lame way, but he faced Konohoha and crushed it, defeated Kakashi, faced Naruto and then the almost nine tails and Naruto again... Come on the guy was in is limit... But yah lame way to kill him xD
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Old 2010-07-16, 03:30   Link #24
kelp
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Last week's episode was great. This week's episode was trash. I say this as a manga reader.

Plot armor is the most powerful thing in Shounen though.

I also don't like the happy type of Naruto music anymore. In part 2, in such a battle, it no longer fits right. Very anti-climatic way to end one of the greatest battles up to this point in the manga.

Whatever. I got what I wanted last episode , topped with pain breaking the 4th wall with the greatest "lol umad" moment of all time.
I feel the opposite. I hated the extreme animation used in the last episode. They completely distorted Pain's face in one of the scenes, and it ended up making him look like a dork.

I also love the music from the first part of Naruto. It's very uplifting and motivational. It gets the blood flowing. I admit, it is cheesy, but it's very nice. The new Shippuudden music is too sappy. The new music is making Naruto feel like something it is not. I know they want to take a serious tone now because it's supposed to be for older audience, but the fun tone was what made the show what it is.
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Old 2010-07-16, 04:57   Link #25
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Well you know Pain's defeat may have sucked but, I personally think, it gave Minato's appearance more emotional ooomph. If there had been a long drawn out battle, Minato's scene wouldn't have impacted as hard, not that it was a large impact to begin with.
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Old 2010-07-16, 05:30   Link #26
ThaGuy
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I felt a lot of nostalgia in this episode mainly during the Pain fight. It felt a lot like the the original for some reason, in the way how the fight played out.

Maybe it's because he got destroyed by that old Trump Card technique we're so used to seeing ^^
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Old 2010-07-16, 05:37   Link #27
blewin
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kind of sad that we won't get to see much more of Minato in future episodes.
"trust" being the theme... uh well, typical shounen.
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Old 2010-07-16, 06:26   Link #28
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Well, this episode was a bit of a let down. I thought there would've been a more intense emotional climax when Naruto FINALLY got to know who his father is, and not to mention, getting to meet him. What with all emotional displays Naruto has shown over the years, this one should have been ... i don't know... "more".

I don't know, maybe i am biased. It was over very quickly and it was simply something i had waited for to see for a very long time, but still..... very anti-climactic for something of that magnitude.

I'm hoping (cause i haven't read the manga so i don't know) that we finally have gotten rid of Yahiko's corpse once and for all this time so we can get down to the last confrontation soon. Naruto's battle with the fake-pains are really starting to grate on me.
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Old 2010-07-16, 13:07   Link #29
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Maybe Pain's strongest part is his head. Look at the long haired one, everything disintegrated except the top part of his head. Hit them anywhere else and they automatically die.
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Old 2010-07-16, 14:32   Link #30
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I feel the opposite. I hated the extreme animation used in the last episode. They completely distorted Pain's face in one of the scenes, and it ended up making him look like a dork.

I also love the music from the first part of Naruto. It's very uplifting and motivational. It gets the blood flowing. I admit, it is cheesy, but it's very nice. The new Shippuudden music is too sappy. The new music is making Naruto feel like something it is not. I know they want to take a serious tone now because it's supposed to be for older audience, but the fun tone was what made the show what it is.
The fun tone is something better left to shounens like One Piece. Naruto has always been more about the seriousness than the "fun."
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Old 2010-07-16, 15:53   Link #31
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Originally Posted by Xbuster View Post
Well, this episode was a bit of a let down. I thought there would've been a more intense emotional climax when Naruto FINALLY got to know who his father is, and not to mention, getting to meet him. What with all emotional displays Naruto has shown over the years, this one should have been ... i don't know... "more".

I don't know, maybe i am biased. It was over very quickly and it was simply something i had waited for to see for a very long time, but still..... very anti-climactic for something of that magnitude.

I'm hoping (cause i haven't read the manga so i don't know) that we finally have gotten rid of Yahiko's corpse once and for all this time so we can get down to the last confrontation soon. Naruto's battle with the fake-pains are really starting to grate on me.
I don't know who would be to blame for the shitty metting between Minato and Naruto.

Obviously, the director (he blow pretty hard) but then I look at the scriptwriter and what he wrote for 166 and I get confused. I can't pinpoint what is wrong (aside from bad dialogue).

Noticed how Naruto punching his dad was insanely less intense than it was in the manga? That moment was solely the director fault. He didn't take time to trick us into it. This guy don't know how to contrast different tone in a scene. It all seems so even. Nothing aside from seeing Naruto punching his dad tells me that something happen. The director just doesn't give us any clue.

Why does he punch his dad you incompetent? Is it supposed to be surprising or not? Is it supposed to be 16 years of frustration released in one punch or not? Don't you know what the hell you're doing? He doesn't convey any information.

"Oh, Naruto is punching his dad in this panel? We should do the same thing.

- Should the music change at that moment sir? Should we try to have the audience believe that Naruto is going to hug him so as to confuse them and thus make them empathize for the main character who is also very emtionally confused?

- No, no, just a punch. Then we'll have Naruto TELL them that he's very confused. That should do it."

Somebody fire this man.
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Old 2010-07-16, 17:04   Link #32
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I knew it would go down like that. Naruto will always win the war of attrition, then land a rasengan. The rasengan is an A level technique if I remember right, so you can't say it shouldn't have done the trick. And of course Real Pain apears to be running on empty.
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Old 2010-07-16, 20:15   Link #33
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You all need to realize Naruto's intention was to kill him where Pain needs to keep him alive for reasons we already know.
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Old 2010-07-16, 21:38   Link #34
Shiryuu
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Pain already won. But just like any other villain, he got cocky and forced the Kyuubi out. It's typical shonen formula.
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Old 2010-07-17, 00:16   Link #35
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You know, I didn't really think too much about it during Naruto's first encounter with Pain, but it's really amazing how is actually fighting like a ninja, and short of Rasengan and all it's variants, Naruto is surprisingly adept at keeping things basic yet still hitting to maximum effect...I mean, smoke bombs? Really? In a shounen world, did you expect the most basic folklore of ninjas being actually somewhat useful in these situations? And it's funny how Naruto used to just spam the hell out of shadow clones, eventually evolving to the point where they can be effectively utilized in combat for support and diversions...Well, he still had to spam it here anyway for old time's sake...

But everyone is going "Pain pwned WTF?" for him getting hit by a basic Rasengan...If I can just add a little logic to this and use a real-life quote of Sun Tzu's: "All warfare is based on deception"...Naruto pretty much wore Pain down using one deception after another...Despite the Deva Path's excellent agility, Naruto probably figured that Pain would still rely a lot on Shina Tensei, trying to force him to use it to close in for the kill on the 5-second downtime...First deception: Smoke bombs plus dual Futon: Rasenshuriken, Pain was expecting it to play out like a laid-out plan, and it did, with him having to use Shinra Tensei...Second deception: Mass shadow clones hidden in the rubble to immediately attack within the 5-second interval, although let's admit that while a good deception, mass shadow clones is synonymous with attack spam; Pain was still forced to use Shinra Tensei again, opening up another 5-second downtime (And he was definitely relying on it if he counted down the seconds instead of just getting out of Dodge)...Third deception: Shadow clones literally throwing Naruto with a Rasengan in hand completely went against Pain's expectation that this form of Rasengan would have no way of hitting him at a long distance since it couldn't be thrown, so Pain was acting under less confidence and more arrogance...

Don't forget that Pain is also unintentionally suffering from the same form of TB Itachi used to have, or at least in the technical case, Nagato is suffering...The giant Shinra Tensei used to level Konoha and the Chibaku Tensei used to try to capture the Kyuubi has obviously cut pretty deep into Nagato's life power, and the pawns can't do anything if the player can't make them take a move...Naruto still has a lot of tricks in his bag while Nagato's bag is deteriorating, so the advantage in battle is shifting from one side to the other, whether or not Naruto even has to bother drawing on the Kyuubi's powers or going into Sage Mode...And really? Rasengan, even in it's most basic chakra form, is still an A-ranked technique developed by Minato himself, so why can't it kick some serious ass and be Naruto's technique of choice?

But who am I to use logic in a shounen title? Kishimoto is more of a genius than Kubo, but let's just dumb it down: Naruto automatically won as a protagonist, Pain automatically lost as an antagonist, and I just wasted my time thinking through things rationally...

I still really enjoyed the episode...But was it necessary of Naruto ask how Minato knows his name when just before saying Naruto's name Minato mentioned something about Naruto being his son? I mean, imagine if a certain line of dialogue in Star Wars Episode V went like: "He told me enough! He told me *you* killed him!" "No. *I* am your father." "How do you know he's not dead?"

DERP
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Old 2010-07-17, 00:57   Link #36
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^You can explain the logic until your blue in the face (or, to be more apt, until your fingers bleed), but, as I said earlier, there is still an internal inconsistency between Pain in 167 and Pain in 168. It's hard for an audience member not to compare the image of Pain that can take untold amounts of damage with nary a stray hair and the current Pain who is defeated with 2 hits. Yes Nagato is tired, we all understand that, but the defeat almost seems a discrepancy considering what an audience member knows that Pain can do...

(Honestly, this is more of a criticism of 167 than 168. If it were not for the over-the-top performance Pain gave in 167, this defeat in 168 would be entirely without question (okay, I'm sure someone would still question the exchange).)
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Old 2010-07-17, 01:35   Link #37
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^You can explain the logic until your blue in the face (or, to be more apt, until your fingers bleed), but, as I said earlier, there is still an internal inconsistency between Pain in 167 and Pain in 168. It's hard for an audience member not to compare the image of Pain that can take untold amounts of damage with nary a stray hair and the current Pain who is defeated with 2 hits. Yes Nagato is tired, we all understand that, but the defeat almost seems a discrepancy considering what an audience member knows that Pain can do...

(Honestly, this is more of a criticism of 167 than 168. If it were not for the over-the-top performance Pain gave in 167, this defeat in 168 would be entirely without question (okay, I'm sure someone would still question the exchange).)
OK, this is where I admit that, despite me still being a supporter of filler as a minor supplement to the canon material, in the overall context of things, someone really screwed up this time with the storyboard transition...I can support filler as long as it's somewhat standalone and doesn't interfere with future continuity, but since I totally forgot about what happened in this scene with the manga, that wasn't a prioritized thought in my head during the last episode...Now that things are all together again, as epic as the last episode looked, it's almost like looking at your best friend standing over a dead body with a bloody knife in hand, yelling at them "What the hell did you do?" Post-game wrap-ups always have the potential to be a 20-20 hindsight bastard...

Well, what we do then, is we take episode 167, we open it up in Sony Vegas Pro, we crop out the middle battle, we re-upload the episode, and pretend like nothing ever happened, because nothing ever happened...
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Old 2010-07-17, 21:06   Link #38
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I was a little disappointed because these scenes seemed so much better in the manga, but it was still okay. I guess the director wasn't able to make anything seem really big, and the silly 5 second countdown is less believable in animation when you can actually keep track of time fully.
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Old 2010-07-17, 23:39   Link #39
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Much more preferable to the...'dynamic body structure' of the last episode (to put it nicely).
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Old 2010-07-18, 20:56   Link #40
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After the greatness of 167, this one was so lame....So this is how Deva path is defeated? It's becoming a bit repetitive to see Naruto use those tricks to defeat one powerful enemy after another. I mean i can understand that's all he can do but still, it plays out the same every time and lacks originality.

Absolutely agreed about the inconsistency between Pain in 167 and in 168...In the former he is a monster, in the latter he looked like an average ninja. Even though Nagato is tired, it's not enough to explain the difference.
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