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Old 2010-07-24, 10:19   Link #41
sergho
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The US banned alcohol back in the 1930's. It was illegal to own or use.

Problem was, alcohol was so integral to many cultures that the law was ignored.

Alcohol is involved in like 90% of the crimes in the US. It's accessory to most rapes, child molestations, murders, robberies and so on.

It would be nice if we could ban it too, for the good of the society.
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Old 2010-07-24, 10:24   Link #42
Capone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sergho View Post
The US banned alcohol back in the 1930's. It was illegal to own or use.

Problem was, alcohol was so integral to many cultures that the law was ignored.

Alcohol is involved in like 90% of the crimes in the US. It's accessory to most rapes, child molestations, murders, robberies and so on.

It would be nice if we could ban it too, for the good of the society.
Yeah, fuck alcohol. My parents are alcoholics, and I stopped drinking a month ago. I hate alcohol, and it's a sin, too...
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Old 2010-07-24, 10:51   Link #43
ChainLegacy
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Originally Posted by Zaseka View Post
Can you tell me what drug enables you to play games of the future?
I thought you already said you liked salvia ....

My opinion is, what someone does after a hard day of work/school is THEIR BUSINESS not the government's. I think both alcohol and cannabis can be negative when used in excess but see no justification for them being illegal. If how dangerous an activity was determined its legality, then going for a drive would be a serious offense...
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Old 2010-07-24, 11:35   Link #44
Reckoner
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Ah, weed... With such great disdain I hold for this habits in my everyday college life. Now don't get me wrong, I do not appreciate alcohol either since they both rot your brain... But I've seen weed affect people's personalities much much more in my life.

And about marijuana... People can bring up whatever medical study they want to justify what really is just a dirty habit. It never ceases to amaze me how far drug users go to justify their habits to anyone.

In particular... Anecdotal knowledge or not, everyone I've known in my life has had warped personalities after they started to smoke marijuana, even if just a relatively casual user. It's destroyed people in my family as well.

Personally, I do not do both, and never will. I do not agree with the idea of altering one's mind for the sake of escapism and/or boredom.

I won't campaign to legalize either, but I'm also not going to stop anyone from using said things. You can do whatever you want with your body, but it doesn't mean I will ever get along with you or actually approve of your habits.

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Originally Posted by Capone View Post
That's by far the healthiest decision... Just stay away from them. However, I got to disagree; the positive effects of weed outnumber the bad effects, IMO.

Your personality will be more laid-back, less stress, you will have something to do and look forward to once in a while, and for the actual ride;

When high, watch a good movie and have plenty of food/candy you like, aswell as a can of water. You won't think so much about the bad sides in that situation

However, if you have never tried weed before, you don't know what you're missing out on. So I guess it's best for you not to know
Ah yes. The positives outweigh what negatives? Being less stressed? So you need to chemically induce something in yourself to deal with your own problems... (Weakness). Laid-back? Another person in life who lets other people walk over them in my young generation (Weakness). Oh, and now you get to look forward to something in your life (Escapism)? Great, enjoy it. I have plenty of other hobbies I enjoy and honestly have no negatives on me.

I'm sorry, I don't wish to chemically alter my brain, so I can a) stop caring, and b) escape from my everyday problems on a consistent basis.
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Old 2010-07-24, 12:12   Link #45
ChainLegacy
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Here Reckoner, I think you should read this if you want. I don't disagree with anything you've said but I think there is more than one way to approach entheogens. You've outlined one way - which is abuse, but I think Carl Sagan expresses his summary of the other approach quite nicely:

Spoiler for Mr. X by Carl Sagan:
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Old 2010-07-24, 12:40   Link #46
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I know about Carl Sagan, someone often cited to me in debates of this nature, and lets just say for a moment that I can sympathize with his approach for a moment (Which I really don't, but I don't want to spend time talking about him).

Most people do not "think" on this level. They cannot articulate this feeling like Mr.Sagan. That is because they simply feel an emotion about it, and then rationalize it, much like anyone does, but people don't sit there thinking about it as much as Mr.Sagan. When we over analyze such habits as Mr.Sagan does, I find it hard to believe that anyone actually thinks about all these details as Mr.Sagan does.

It overcomplicates to me what really is not that complicated of an issue, since I find it hard to believe that people operate under Mr.Sagan's exact approach.

What I often see is that people seem to use the drug as a method of socializing with peers, feeling good, and getting away from their problems. Generalization, because in general this is what I have seen and come to know. I don't think there is any other deeper meaning in it that Mr.Sagan tries to attach to it.

The way he talks about cannabis is if it was some sort of intriguing scientific mystery, which personally I find hard to understand.
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Old 2010-07-24, 12:58   Link #47
synaesthetic
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Beer > all.

Thread over!

why yes I am of German descent... why do you ask?
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Old 2010-07-24, 12:58   Link #48
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Most people do not "think" on this level. They cannot articulate this feeling like Mr.Sagan. That is because they simply feel an emotion about it, and then rationalize it, much like anyone does, but people don't sit there thinking about it as much as Mr.Sagan. When we over analyze such habits as Mr.Sagan does, I find it hard to believe that anyone actually thinks about all these details as Mr.Sagan does.
Sure, most people probably don't think about it that deeply. I'm saying the people who do that probably aren't using cannabis properly, which is as an entheogen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
It overcomplicates to me what really is not that complicated of an issue, since I find it hard to believe that people operate under Mr.Sagan's exact approach.
I think it is actually the opposite. Most people do not think about it on a deeper level and instead focus solely on the hedonistic aspects of it. Those people, of course, are open to your criticism. But if someone truly does wish to use it as an entheogen there really isn't any room for your critique.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
What I often see is that people seem to use the drug as a method of socializing with peers, feeling good, and getting away from their problems. Generalization, because in general this is what I have seen and come to know. I don't think there is any other deeper meaning in it that Mr.Sagan tries to attach to it.

The way he talks about cannabis is if it was some sort of intriguing scientific mystery, which personally I find hard to understand.
It is a generalization, though, like you said. Even if people use something the wrong way, it doesn't make everyone like that. And you probably find his approach hard to understand because, like you said, all you've encountered are individuals that use it as an emotional crutch rather than an entheogen.
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Old 2010-07-24, 13:02   Link #49
synaesthetic
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Basically this is how it works. If you're a musician and you don't do drugs, your music will probably suck.

I mean, look at Stone Temple Pilots. Core was an awesome album, great songs all over. Lead singer was toooootally loaded during that time.

Then he "got his act together" and got clean. Shangri La came out after that and, well, it sucked donkey dong.

So the moral of the story is if you make music, you better be high or it'll suck!

Edit: For those who are apparently rather dense and negrepped me for this... this post is a joke.
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Old 2010-07-24, 13:08   Link #50
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Sure, most people probably don't think about it that deeply. I'm saying the people who do that probably aren't using cannabis properly, which is as an entheogen.

I think it is actually the opposite. Most people do not think about it on a deeper level and instead focus solely on the hedonistic aspects of it. Those people, of course, are open to your criticism. But if someone truly does wish to use it as an entheogen there really isn't any room for your critique.

It is a generalization, though, like you said. Even if people use something the wrong way, it doesn't make everyone like that. And you probably find his approach hard to understand because, like you said, all you've encountered are individuals that use it as an emotional crutch rather than an entheogen.
I can't speak too much about it being used as an entheogen since it is a murky matter as much discussions about religious and spiritual beliefs are. And you are correct, my beef is with those who use them in a recreational manner mainly.

However, I'm pretty all my peers at UCSB don't typically go for that approach, and the OP of this thread certainly doesn't, which is the reason for my resentment. So yes, my approach is one of "abuse."
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Old 2010-07-24, 13:36   Link #51
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Basically this is how it works. If you're a musician and you don't do drugs, your music will probably suck.

I mean, look at Stone Temple Pilots. Core was an awesome album, great songs all over. Lead singer was toooootally loaded during that time.

Then he "got his act together" and got clean. Shangri La came out after that and, well, it sucked donkey dong.

So the moral of the story is if you make music, you better be high or it'll suck!
Also alcohol does give a creative boost. The key is to know the quantity. Look at ZUN.
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Old 2010-07-24, 13:39   Link #52
ChainLegacy
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Funny that the OP's name is "Capone" and he is against alcohol.
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Old 2010-07-24, 14:09   Link #53
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Also alcohol does give a creative boost. The key is to know the quantity. Look at ZUN.
Pretty sure he coded the entirety of Imperishable Night while totally drunk off his ass.
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Old 2010-07-24, 14:41   Link #54
Capone
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Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Funny that the OP's name is "Capone" and he is against alcohol.
Meh, I needed to have an username, right?
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Old 2010-07-24, 14:55   Link #55
Irkalla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
I thought you already said you liked salvia ....
Point taken

Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Beer > all.

Thread over!

why yes I am of German descent... why do you ask?
But, but.....beer is not alcohol D: *is of German descent as well*
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Old 2010-07-24, 15:40   Link #56
Kaijo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Stoned driving could be as bad, if not worse, than drink driving. So, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that smoking pot is necessarily "less dangerous" than drinking alcohol.
True, but you'll find more drunk people who will want to drive, then stoned people who want to drive. Most people who get stoned, just want to sit there and munch. They are at a strange kind of peace.

Also, alcohol can do harm in other ways that pot can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capone View Post
Chances are that you won't get addicted to weed. I smoked it almost everyday for one and a half year, and when my girlfriend didn't like it, I was able to stop instantly. Well, not instantly, I DEMANDED the rights for a last joint, but who wouldn't? After that, nope, I could go without weed for months
This is very much true. Weed is nowhere near as addicting as alochol is. I've known a lot of weed smokers, and most go months sometimes without smoking it. It's like pizza; you really like it, and can eat it everyday for a month, but you can also go months without eating it. it's just something good to do.

Of course, people *can* get addicting to anything, so I'm sure you'll find some people addicted to pot if you look hard enough.
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Old 2010-07-24, 16:08   Link #57
Chrisjon
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
So the moral of the story is if you make music, you better be high or it'll suck!
I hope you are not serious... I know plenty of talented musicians who are not hooked on drugs.
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Old 2010-07-24, 16:22   Link #58
Lio
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Basically this is how it works. If you're a musician and you don't do drugs, your music will probably suck.

I mean, look at Stone Temple Pilots. Core was an awesome album, great songs all over. Lead singer was toooootally loaded during that time.

Then he "got his act together" and got clean. Shangri La came out after that and, well, it sucked donkey dong.

So the moral of the story is if you make music, you better be high or it'll suck!
Wonder if I should try that and see how my music turns out...

The late great George Carlin talks about something similar, that these drugs aren't around for millenias for nothing - they open certain pathways in your mind and allows you to change your values and see things in more profound and refreshing perspectives.

As far as alcohol goes, a bit of red wine is good for you. I can't stand beer though - it's like milk for college kids.
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Old 2010-07-24, 16:46   Link #59
synaesthetic
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Beer tastes good. Wine tastes like Stridex pads.
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Old 2010-07-24, 16:48   Link #60
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I just find it weird one's illegal here and one isn't.
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