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Old 2011-01-15, 17:15   Link #281
orion
Waiting for more taiyuki!
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
Last I checked, there were no moe-blobs in Fractale (not yet at least). Why are you dragging those into the topic? Meh.
And what about the girl that just popped out of the pendant?

Loli in the box has been taken to a more compact level.

Board Meeting for Fractale:

You've seen loli in the suitcase with Shiki and Dragon Crisis. Not to worry, We, as the animators of Fractale, have outdone ourselves with Loli in the Pendant. Transportable. Cute. And no series will outdo this. Oh and we'll even add the ending animation that almost upskirts her for added "service".

What's next? Loli in the Ear Ring?


Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
Stop watching. Everyone wins
No way. His declaration almost makes this mandatory viewing to see if it turns out to be a trainwreck. Following the sales and ratings for this is also almost a mandatory thing. I'm following 9 titles this season so this is easy.
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Last edited by orion; 2011-01-15 at 17:27.
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Old 2011-01-15, 17:18   Link #282
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
Stop watching. Everyone wins
And what part of "I'll watch a few more episodes and see what happens" you didn't get? Of course I'm going to drop it if it doesn't deliver. Though, if you thought I was just complaining about that scene, then you didn't ever read my post.

That being said, you seem pretty butt-hurt over this, even though I think is fair criticism.....

EDIT: "Loli in the Pendant" lol
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Old 2011-01-15, 17:39   Link #283
FlavorOfLife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
And what part of "I'll watch a few more episodes and see what happens" you didn't get? Of course I'm going to drop it if it doesn't deliver. Though, if you thought I was just complaining about that scene, then you didn't ever read my post.

That being said, you seem pretty butt-hurt over this, even though I think is fair criticism.....

EDIT: "Loli in the Pendant" lol
Oh i have low tolerance for
i) close minded people
ii) People who could simply do something else but choose to do something and complain about it (excusing the machoists)

My post was such people the benefit of the doubt by pointing out how is is close minded and a simple action to avoid "suffering" the anime. Since you replied, perhaps you feel you're one of these types then?

As an unrelated observation, I also notice that true experts don't go around shouting how great they are and how experienced they are
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Old 2011-01-15, 17:44   Link #284
FlavorOfLife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
No way. His declaration almost makes this mandatory viewing to see if it turns out to be a trainwreck. Following the sales and ratings for this is also almost a mandatory thing. I'm following 9 titles this season so this is easy.
Ah a machoist, "suffering" though anime that is absolutely horrible to that person. Sure, feel free to watch then, though complaints would then be moronic if you're already expecting to be "tortured" by it.
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Old 2011-01-15, 17:57   Link #285
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
My post was such people the benefit of the doubt by pointing out how is is close minded and a simple action to avoid "suffering" the anime. Since you replied, perhaps you feel you're one of these types then?
No, because I did say I was going to drop it if it doesn't offer anything else. Man, you're definitely not reading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
Oh i have low tolerance for
The subject is the anime, not the people talking about it (nice of lightbringer, who reminded me of that).
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-01-15 at 18:08. Reason: edit: it seems I've got start to be more civil about this ><
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Old 2011-01-15, 18:06   Link #286
FlavorOfLife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
No, because I did say I was going to drop it if it doesn't offer anything else. Man, you're definitely not reading.
And yet you felt compelled to reply to a post that was not addressed to you and not even addressed to the post above it. waddle +quack = Duck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
The subject is the anime, not the people talking about it (nice of lightbringer, who reminded me of that). You can't stand people criticising the show... get over it.
Oh you fail to see the point. Close minded people will always fail to see viewpoints other than their own and will always ascribe the failure to that of those they are conversing with.

In my post i already mentioned "african tribal women" who go half naked. That is their culture. Applying norms based on one's beliefs when one has no idea on the actual norms of that culture is both arrogant and stupid.

The same applies to apply "ew, naked, ew" to a character whose norms are not known.

I would have thought a simple think through of what the first post wrote would have pointed this out.
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Old 2011-01-15, 18:19   Link #287
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
In my post i already mentioned "african tribal women" who go half naked. That is their culture. Applying norms based on one's beliefs when one has no idea on the actual norms of that culture is both arrogant and stupid.

The same applies to apply "ew, naked, ew" to a character whose norms are not known.
I thought I said the naked thing wasn't the only problem with the show. See? you don't read.

Also, the by the otaku-book reaction of the main character to the girl betrays your rationale for that scene. Maybe they thought there was enough justification for it (you certainly think so too), but I disagree, because it still plays out as the otaku trope. I think there are better ways to portray the slightly "alien" vibe of the girl and the awkwardness of the guy without falling into otaku territory. I did say this before too, but you probably didn't even read that either.
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Old 2011-01-15, 18:34   Link #288
FlavorOfLife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I thought I said the naked thing wasn't the only problem with the show. See? you don't read.
Eh? This is getting silly.
i) My post did not even address you in the first place, yet i'm supposed to know what you said? Using this logic, i don't know Steven Segal but i should know what he ate yesterday?

ii) Somehow i'm supposed to address ALL your problems with this anime? Again using this logic, i can't just get a coke but have to buy a full Mcdonald's meal.

Quack!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Also, the by the otaku-book reaction of the main character to the girl betrays your rationale for that scene. Maybe they thought there was enough justification for it (you certainly think so too), but I disagree, because it still plays out as the otaku trope. I think there are better ways to portray the slightly "alien" vibe of the girl and the awkwardness of the guy without falling into otaku territory. I did say this before too, but you probably didn't even read that either.
You do know that "better ways" is
i) subjective
ii) implies that the current way is a valid way

As for having to read what you wrote, i dunno, is what you write some sort of divine revelation that i MUST read or something? Will i get a million dollars for reading it?
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Old 2011-01-15, 18:39   Link #289
Kagayaki
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I don't think that Yamamoto is trying to completely avoid standard anime tropes in the first place. Remember, this is the director of Kannagi and Black Rock Shooter (and the beginning of Lucky Star). Certainly not moe free fare.

Here is an interesting interview of his: http://behind-the.nihonreview.com/20...mamoto-yutaka/

Based on that, I'd say he's not trying to avoid common (or even overused) anime tropes but to repackage them in a way that is understandable by and palatable to a more diverse audience, some of whom might have little or no experience with the genre. Regardless of whether you think that's the right goal, I'd say he's doing a pretty good job of achieving it (based on the one episode we have to go on).

The argument I'm trying to make is that I don't think we can make the logical leap that if a show uses standard anime tropes that it must be targeted only at otaku.
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Old 2011-01-15, 18:40   Link #290
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
Ah a machoist, "suffering" though anime that is absolutely horrible to that person. Sure, feel free to watch then, though complaints would then be moronic if you're already expecting to be "tortured" by it.
I rarely "suffer' thru anything except exams.

I'm not expecting to be tortured but I'll watch it to see if it does become a trainwreck. If it becomes unbearable, I'll prob bail.
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Old 2011-01-15, 18:40   Link #291
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
You do know that "better ways" is
i) subjective
ii) implies that the current way is a valid way
So? of course what I say is my opinion, and so is subjetive. You're take on it is subjetive too. I'm not sure where you're getting with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
As for having to read what you wrote when i dunno, is what you write some sort of divine revelation that i MUST read or something? Will i get a million dollars for reading it?
If you don't read my post why do you reply to it? I don't get it.
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Old 2011-01-15, 18:41   Link #292
wandering-dreamer
reads too much
 
 
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Location: you know that's a great question.....
Erm, I was agreeing with Orion's original post in saying that it was odd that this anime was supposed to not be "otaku pandering" yet the strip/medicine scene seemed more like something out of am otaku directed show rather than a show directed at a wider audience (like Ghibili). I never said being naked was wrong (that point of view would make bathing and, other things, difficult certainly) just that it seemed rather out of place and that the scene could've been done better.
So, um, take a deep breath please? We're hardly being moralistic about it, just stating that the scene felt rather out of place giving what the director has said about the series and were attempting to give support as to why it was strange.
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Old 2011-01-15, 18:49   Link #293
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagayaki View Post
Based on that, I'd say he's not trying to avoid common (or even overused) anime tropes but to repackage them in a way that is understandable by and palatable to a more diverse audience, some of whom might have little or no experience with the genre. Regardless of whether you think that's the right goal, I'd say he's doing a pretty good job of achieving it (based on the one episode we have to go on).
He did say he was trying to branch away from the otaku demographic with this show. Still, I see what you mean, and I even think he's indeed trying. But, imo, it's not working. At least not yet. I think EotE did a better job on balancing the mainstream and otaku content than this. Of course, things could change along the ride. We'll see I guess.
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Old 2011-01-15, 19:05   Link #294
FlavorOfLife
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Ok it seems that some overestimation on my part happened. Will have to be more detailed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
So? of course what I say is my opinion, and so is subjetive. You're take on it is subjetive too. I'm not sure where you're getting with this.
As mentioned "better ways" only means you feel its better. It is by no means actually better.

It also implies that the current way is acceptable and valid merely not as good.

The 2 combined already negates the value of any possible criticism that could be accepted by people who are not you. Why? Because the current method of presentation is valid and any "better way" would have exactly the same value as any other single person's "better way".

The value of your criticism is then similar to the following

A+B=Storyline (statement is accepted true by you. Refer to point on "valid" above)

Finding a subsitute for A
Choice 1: Your "better way" = A1
Choice 2: Someone else's "better way" = A2
.....
Choice 100,000: the 100,000th person's else's "better way" = A100000

Hence value of your "better way"=1/100,000 which begs the question why should it be changed in any way when the current way is already valid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
If you don't read my post why do you reply to it? I don't get it.
If i did not read your replies to my post, i would have failed basic comprehension no?

Yet your post talks about some previous post which were NOT replies to my post, yet i am supposed to have read those?

So again, give me a reason why i should be EXPECTED to read some post which were NOT replies since my post was not even addressed to you in the first place?
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Old 2011-01-15, 19:17   Link #295
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
As mentioned "better ways" only means you feel its better. It is by no means actually better.
Did I ever imply it was more than just my take on it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
It also implies that the current way is acceptable and valid merely not as good.
Ah, this is what I missed before. But valid or not is not the point. To begin with, there's not such thing as valid when it comes to fictional portrayals on entertaining media, at least, that's what I'm told in college, and I agree. There are different ways to portray something, some better than others depending on what the author wants to achieve. According to Yamakan himself, he is trying to branch away from the otaku demographic. Considering that, IMO, there are better ways to portray the dynamics between the characters.
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Old 2011-01-15, 19:31   Link #296
FlavorOfLife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Did I ever imply it was more than just my take on it?
I would have thought i was detailed enough with the sentence "The 2 combined already negates the value of any possible criticism that could be accepted by people who are not you"

Both, combined = same value as me talking about how much i love gattcha-man in this thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Ah, this is what I missed before. But valid or not is not the point. To begin with, there's not such thing as valid when it comes to fictional portrayals on entertaining media, at least, that's what I'm told in college, and I agree. There are different ways to portray something, some better than others depending on what the author wants to achieve. According to Yamakan himself, he is trying to branch away from the otaku demographic. Considering that, IMO, there are better ways to portray the dynamics between the characters.
Eh? You were the one talking about "better ways" hence the implication is that YOU find it valid. I'm not even involved in this.

If you find the entire method invalid, then you can note it as "incorrect" and the only "correct" method being whatever you say but that would be taking subjectivity as objectivity.
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Old 2011-01-15, 19:38   Link #297
Kazu-kun
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Ah here I thought we were talking about Fractale
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Old 2011-01-15, 22:09   Link #298
Master_Yoma
Nekokota Festival
 
 
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Is it just me or dose this feel all most like a movie
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Old 2011-01-15, 22:12   Link #299
bigdeath
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Originally Posted by Master_Yoma View Post
Is it just me or dose this feel all most like a movie
I agree, it does have movie quality feel to it.
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Old 2011-01-15, 22:44   Link #300
Neat Hedgehog
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Originally Posted by Master_Yoma View Post
Is it just me or dose this feel all most like a movie
Yeah, I know what you mean. It had a rather interesting "theatrical" air about it. In particular, the "tone" of the first episode reminded me of Laputa. Not that the material was all that similar, but just the... well, feeling, or flavor, or whatever you want to call it (actually I'm kinda synesthetic that way; scenarios in movies and stuff actually make me think of flavors and physical pressure).

Interesting start to the show, overall. Neat world architecture. Not sure how original the storyline is going to be overall based off the first episode, but even if it were to fall completely on its ear, it'd still be cool to watch it just to see how the rest of the world looks. I hope it does manage to stay fresh, though.
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