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Old 2010-12-07, 02:58   Link #101
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
I kinda did more research on Yamakan, and I finally understand why he always gets spotlight on everything. Basically, every part that made Kyoani interesting, unique and creative before lucky star was almost entirely directed and edited by Yamakan. The reason he left Kyoani was not because he suck. It was actually due to the higher staffs including Ishihara, who always persisted on following the original story 'strictly', and Yamakan was against it, which resulted on his firing. The major change in style of Kyoani after lucky star (including endless eight..;;;...) was solely due to Yamakan and his 10 other young follower's leaving.
Yamakan directed the first four episodes of Lucky Star, which are generally agreed upon as being terrible.

You are correct in saying, however, that the loss of his followers after the first season of Clannad is what killed the KyoAni magic.

Also, slight tangent here, but you haven't seen The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya, have you?
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Old 2010-12-07, 03:45   Link #102
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^ Well, I agree about Lucky Star. Yamakan might be a good editor and creative and stuffs, but as an overall supervising director, I don't think he is that capable.

and yeah, I haven't seen the disappearance of SH...
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Old 2010-12-07, 05:17   Link #103
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Yamakan directed the first four episodes of Lucky Star, which are generally agreed upon as being terrible.
I don't. While I do agree the first episodes weren't as high-tension as the rest of the series, the rest of the series turned into a blatant pander fest.
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Old 2010-12-07, 05:35   Link #104
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Yamakan directed the first four episodes of Lucky Star, which are generally agreed upon as being terrible.
I'm sorry, but I didn't "discuss" Lucky Star while it was airing because frankly I thought there was nothing to discuss. So I have to ask: What made them terrible and set them apart from the rest of the series? The fact they had no Haruhi references?
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Old 2010-12-07, 06:00   Link #105
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Originally Posted by Schneizel View Post
I'm sorry, but I didn't "discuss" Lucky Star while it was airing because frankly I thought there was nothing to discuss. So I have to ask: What made them terrible and set them apart from the rest of the series? The fact they had no Haruhi references?
Well, it was boring first of all. After Takemoto took his place, amount of good gags and the level of humour increased. Not saying Yamakan did a bad job, but where lucky star started to get better is after Takemoto started to implant some original episodes. It's my opinion, though.

Of course after that, Yamakan's empty spot hit Kyoani hard. I do remember how any 'especially' boring K-On episodes were all original episode.
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Old 2010-12-07, 13:33   Link #106
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
The major change in style of Kyoani after lucky star (including endless eight..;;;...) was solely due to Yamakan and his 10 other young follower's leaving.
Heh, Endless eight was an emotional roller coaster for me. Sometimes I became extremely irritated, sometimes I laughed of it all. Now that it's passed, I think Haruhi 2nd season was good enough. Considering the movie as a part of it, that is.

The first eight or so episodes of Lucky Star are my favourite ones, actually, before it became a reference festival (although they didn't have Anime Tenchou yet, heh). And Kannagi is a nice series, so Yamakan is a good director in my book. I wish he hadn't been fired from KyoAni.
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Old 2010-12-07, 17:59   Link #107
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Originally Posted by Schneizel View Post
I'm sorry, but I didn't "discuss" Lucky Star while it was airing because frankly I thought there was nothing to discuss. So I have to ask: What made them terrible and set them apart from the rest of the series? The fact they had no Haruhi references?
They were boring as sin. Most people noticed the directorial change immediately; the show suddenly became watchable.

Anyway, this is why I'm less than hopeful about Fractale. Not about its success, but rather about how good it's actually going to be.
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Old 2010-12-08, 09:14   Link #108
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
I kinda did more research on Yamakan, and I finally understand why he always gets spotlight on everything. Basically, every part that made Kyoani interesting, unique and creative before lucky star was almost entirely directed and edited by Yamakan. The reason he left Kyoani was not because he suck. It was actually due to the higher staffs including Ishihara, who always persisted on following the original story 'strictly', and Yamakan was against it, which resulted on his firing. The major change in style of Kyoani after lucky star (including endless eight..;;;...) was solely due to Yamakan and his 10 other young follower's leaving.
Actually, the reason he's always in the spotlight isn't because of his talent, which is a shame, but because he's got an abrasive personality and a strong opinion that he isn't afraid to voice. Sure, his good work got him noticed within Kyoani and his work on the Haruhi ED made his name known to anime fans at large, but it's his attitude and antics that keep him in the headlines.

I also think it's pretty ridiculous to say that everything interesting and unique that Kyoani ever did is solely due to him. It's also pretty insulting to all the people who he worked under at Kyoani including Kigami, Ishihara, and Takemoto, along with all the other very talented and more experienced people he worked alongside. I guess he should also be given credit for the feat that is the Disappearance movie, since he apparently thinks he's still part of the production for the franchise given how he 'apologized' on behalf of the entire production committee (which includes Kyoani) for E8, despite the fact he hasn't had anything to do with them in years.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think Yamakan is talented and I'm a fan of his work, but I think he tends to get much more credit for certain things than he deserves (I don't know how many articles and people I've seen mistakenly put him down as director of Haruhi). Remember that making anime is very much a collaborative effort and no one person is totally responsible for how a work turns out. In fact, the one person who has the most influence on a production is the director, which Yamakan never was at Kyoani (for any reasonable length of time anyway.) Pretty much everything good he did at Kyoani was under the guidance of someone else, and when he finally did get his chance to direct a series, he was fired for being incompetent. So I think it's safe to say that he is not responsible for "every part that made Kyoani interesting, unique and creative before lucky star."

Also, all the theories for why Yamakan was sacked from Lucky Star are nothing but rumour. The only people who know the details of Yamakan's firing are Kyoani and Yamakan himself, and neither of them look like they're going to divulge them anytime soon. Plus, Yamakan worked quite closely with Ishihara and Kigami (both members of Kyoani's board of directors) while he was still there. If Yamakan really was having problems with either of them don't you think he would have been fired long before he ever got a chance to work on Lucky Star? Anyway, Yamakan's firing will probably remain a mystery for a long time until he writes his tell-all memoir or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
You are correct in saying, however, that the loss of his followers after the first season of Clannad is what killed the KyoAni magic.
Actually, all the people (or at least the important ones; Shinobu and Kadowaki) who followed Yamakan to Ordet left before work on Clannad started. So any lost of quality you see after that first season of Clannad had nothing to do with them leaving. Plus, for a studio like Kyoani, whose entire staff consists almost exclusively of permanent employees, the loss of a couple of key animators or even an animation director isn't that big of a hit. This is because they can simply fill the spots from within rather than having to go out and contract a freelancer or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
Of course after that, Yamakan's empty spot hit Kyoani hard.
I personally think that Yamakan and his associates leaving allowed some very talented people to rise up the ranks who have now filled in their spots quite nicely. People like Naoko Yamada, Touko Takao, and especially Miku Kadowaki have all done excellent work since solidifying their spots on Kyoani's staff rotation. And really, I doubt Kyoani's missing him much. After a hectic 2009 they've just come off of an incredibly successful 2010 that's probably been their most successful year ever. On the other side we have Yamakan, who's threatening retirement over a work that will be only his second in the director's role.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to fractal and am hoping for it's success. Like I said, I'm a fan of Yamakan and it would be a shame for him to retire. Although I doubt he'll really follow through with it even if the show does end up bombing. I don't think he could live with going out as a failure.
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Old 2010-12-08, 14:49   Link #109
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^ Yamakan's story is now almost justified. The reason behind is fracture between him and Kyoani's company president's wife, Hata Yoko. Yoko was the one who had the most power over the company and she also was extremely conservative about her treatment to the staffs. She believed that 'animations and drawing has to be the first priority of everything' and to do so, she had to limit and force other minor staffs to 'shut down' all their creativity and solely work on 'drawing well. Yamakan, was opposite. He thought animation has to be 'creative' and use of 'original' part is the most important one. This tension built up since Haruhi, as Huruhi was actually the first anime that was very 'against' that beliefs of Yoko and other actual staff members. Knowing Huruhi's success, the producer (not kyoani) wanted to make 'Lucky Star' as a sole purpose of 'educating' Yamakan as a good director. Howevere, there was once where he did some critics on series made by own company, which was distorted significantly by media as an 'insult to Kyoani'. This got into Yoko's ear, and you know the consequence. This is the most known truth, and even published as a 'book' (which I forgot the name *shrugs*). However, I do agree that if Yamakan was less loud-voiced and sort, it would have been better for him and others.

Hata's mindset changed a bit recently, which kinda improved Kyoani's flexibility. However, it still does not change the fact that Kyoani lost that 'Yamakan sense' that kept things fresh during the series. The significant change between two different seasons of Haruhi explains it. The second season of Haruhi lost those touches from Yamakan, but instead, they decided to sacrifice character design for dynamic movements and expressions, which was the reason why Clannad after story was really good. These are all actually Yamada Naoko's influence, how is new 'disciple' of Ishihara.

And sorry, but Kyoani is a bit far from 'creativity' part. No, their essential 'doctrine' is the thing that limits originality. Ishihara is known for very, very strictly following the original story (However, he is very different from Hata Yoko, as he is much more open-minded, friendly and always allows his 'desciple' such as Yamakan to take over a lot of influence over the series.). Takemoto do not even attempt a single original episodes unless there was Yamakan involvements or during the direction of gag anime. I'm not saying that they 'don't' have creativity. They just 'don't' do it for the sake of smooth animation and detailed, perfect drawings.

Without Yamakan, simply, Haruhi could not be that sensational success, no Haruhi just cannot exist. That ending theme animation and band episode was a world-wide boom; and it was also innovative and ground-breaking in terms of animation and tremendous amount of motion details. There were many use of dynamic angles that resembles actual Japanese live action movies, as Yamakan spent some of his days as a live action director. You might don't know, but those bits of small touches from Yamakan are the things that 'made' haruhi franchise into success.

This is my personal thought, but K-On is a one major example of 'Kyoani experiment' in order to counter Yamakan's empty space. Kyoani had to go through some kind of 'fundamental changes' after the refilling of the staffs who were good at different things compare to Yamakan. Now, they finally throw out 'perfect drawing is everything' doctrine, but use of dynamics increased. Of course, the band scenes were inferior compare the one from Yamakan and so does the original episodes. However, details in movement and certain directions improved hack a lot. I personally don't like K-On (since it is boring), but I can still admit their effort to change to fit with the new generations of anime fans.
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Last edited by applejuice; 2010-12-08 at 15:57. Reason: Grammar.
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Old 2010-12-08, 22:12   Link #110
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@applejuice

While I'm not sure of the credibility of that story of Yamakan being fired, I do agree that if he got on the bad side of Yoko he would most definitely be gone in an instant. As you said, she probably has the most influence of any one person at Kyoani, as far as production goes anyway. After all, she did pretty much found the company herself. And I've heard that she rules the company pretty firmly.

I also definitely agree that Kyoani is a bit different with Yamakan out of the company, but I personally feel it's for the better. It was becoming apparent that Yamakan just didn't fit in with the studio. I actually think that Yamakan leaving was the best thing that could have happened and worked out well for both sides. Kyoani no longer has to deal with him and now Yamakan has much more freedom to do as he pleases.

Anyway, once again, here's hoping to fractal's success. Let's hope that some of the creativity he showed at Kyoani shines through with this show.
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Old 2010-12-09, 02:21   Link #111
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The first 30 second commercial for Fractale will air later tonight, after the airing of Kuragehime.

http://fractale-anime.com/blog/archives/245

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Old 2010-12-09, 05:57   Link #112
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YAY! Clain doesn't look overly plump and chubby anymore!
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Old 2010-12-09, 12:03   Link #113
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Welp, here's the trailer.
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Old 2010-12-09, 12:16   Link #114
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It doesn't show much, but I at least like how the characters are looking while in motion. I was a bit worried after those scans that popped up sometime ago. The world where this takes place seems pretty cool, though.

And, uh, the music's okay. Overall, guess I'll wait and see when the first episode airs. There wasn't any sort of hook to this trailer.
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Old 2010-12-09, 12:32   Link #115
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why am I not surprised that the PV didn't really show us that much...

I get the feeling he is cooking something interesting for the first episode. hopefully I'm not wrong...

by the way, I loved the music on the PV.
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Old 2010-12-09, 12:37   Link #116
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by the way, I loved the music on the PV.
I like the music too, but like Blue-kun said, there's no hook.

It also doesn't help that the website and manga both have far superior art than this. The trailer lowered my enthusiasm by quite a bit actually.
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Old 2010-12-09, 14:06   Link #117
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There wasn't any hook, yeah, though that doesn't effect me personally much since I've been interested in Fractale since I first read about it on the Winter 2011 chart and will be looking forward to it regardless. Maybe the next trailer will be more substantial.
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Old 2010-12-09, 16:01   Link #118
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The character isn't too bad after all, but I wouldn't say it's great either. The way the background moves around the main character is quite odd.
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Old 2010-12-09, 16:39   Link #119
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If there's one thing that's going to completely ruin this show for me, it's Yu Kobayashi.

Stop casting her as little boys, production studios. She CANNOT voice them. Just. Stop.
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Old 2010-12-09, 17:03   Link #120
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...

Bye Yamakan, we will miss you.
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