AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-08-11, 20:35   Link #41
mindovermatter
For me the bell tolls
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Roanapur
Send a message via AIM to mindovermatter Send a message via MSN to mindovermatter Send a message via Yahoo to mindovermatter
I think that if all games were only made for brand new, top of the line systems that way less people would be gaming since it would be a rich kids hobby which would require a new console every 6 months. So by the fact that there are more gamers, there are more people working on games, and a higher demand which boosts innovation.

When PS3 game out, there were few games out that could utilize it's full power. From what I read, it was mostly because developers didn't yet know how to utilize all the cores fully. Math mathematicians hadn't yet developed algorithms for advanced physics...so in a way, the consoles were up to snuff, but the developers weren't.
But learning how to effectively make a good game on an older system can lead to a better knowledge and understanding which can be translated to making new games. Kind of like how the space program ended up being more than just a macho contest with Russia because we gained valuable science during the process
__________________

School Rumble 4Ever!
I'm on FB search "jym cl"
mindovermatter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-11, 21:41   Link #42
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic Send a message via Skype™ to synaesthetic
At the core of it all is Sturgeon's Law. Ninety percent of everything is shit.

The problem is now gaming is mainstream and thus the sample size is a hell of a lot bigger, so we feel like we're swimming in a veritable ocean of shit.

There are still great games out there, but there's so much more shit that it's hard to tell.

Also, whoever brought up Alpha Protocol as an example of a good game needs to actually play the game. It's buggy as fuck, poorly balanced and not very fun. I'm very disappointed in Obsidian for doing such a thing--KOTOR2 wasn't their fault; LucasArts railroaded them on that one, but Alpha Protocol is totally their fault.

And this whinging about FONV being the reason Alpha Protocol was released as a sorry excuse for a half-finished beta version is a bunch of horseshit. FONV had a shortened development cycle because the graphics engine and most of the assets already existed (from FO3).
__________________
synaesthetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-11, 21:42   Link #43
justsomeguy
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by mindovermatter View Post
When PS3 game out, there were few games out that could utilize it's full power. From what I read, it was mostly because developers didn't yet know how to utilize all the cores fully. Math mathematicians hadn't yet developed algorithms for advanced physics...so in a way, the consoles were up to snuff, but the developers weren't.
This is a good point. With consoles getting more powerful and complex with each generation, the time it takes programmers to truly understand how to push the system also increases, and development time for games should also be extended along with the lifespans of each console. If they had to constantly learn new systems, they wouldn't have any time to create the kinds of masterpieces from earlier generations.
__________________
Currently watching: Kamen Rider Gaim, Ressha Sentai ToQger, Garo: Makai no Hana, Captain Earth, SAO, Prisma Illya 2wei, Glasslip, Aldnoah.Zero, Ao Haru Ride

Currently playing: Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha vs King Abaddon, Knights in the Nightmare
justsomeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-11, 21:44   Link #44
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic Send a message via Skype™ to synaesthetic
Of course. The best games for any given console are often ones created between the midpoint and endpoint of the console's lifespan.

At least on PC, x86 is x86 and that isn't likely to change anytime soon. Makes coding things a bit easier.
__________________
synaesthetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-11, 22:25   Link #45
Master_Yoma
Nekokota Festival
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lost in the Fairy Forest
Games are devolving there becoming so much CG and they cut the story for the game play to 5 hours of game play after 4 hours of crap CG
__________________
Master_Yoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-11, 22:27   Link #46
Random32
Also a Lolicon
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
graphics aren't the only thing that measures how good a game is, there's gameplay and the story line, etc.

I personally think that the reason that pc game graphics seem to be stuck DirectX9 is because:
1. DX9>DX10, DX10 was Vista only, Vista not being popular is an understatement
2. DX10>DX11, nV was late with their DX11 cards. this shouldn't be a problem, but AMD's dev relations program is just starting to improve and nV's dev relations (TWIMTBP) has had huge success implementing cheesy features like 3D and PhysX while forcing devs to avoid DX11 until they got their DX11 parts out. the fact that DX11 is Vista/7 only, but since 7 is everything that Vista was meant to be, doesn't hurt much.
3. Xbox360's ATi Xenos GPU is based on the ATi R500, as in it only supports DX9. not sure, but I assume it makes porting an xbox game to pc if you stick with DX9 graphics
4. hardware, what percentage of gamers have hardware capable of smoothly running a game in DX11? looking at the STeam hardware survey, the most popular cards are DX10 (most popular being the ATi HD4800's). You have to go down to seventh place to find a DX11 card (ATi HD5700's), then one below that for a card that gives you good framerates in a DX11 game. The other DX11 cardshave such a small percentage that they are added to the rest "other" section cards
5. DX9 graphics are pretty enough for most people. I consider myself a rather hardcore PC Gamer, I stuck with XP and skipped to 7 since DX10 wasn't enough to warrant upgrade to Vista and the only reason I upgraded to an ATi HD5xx0 card is because Eyefinity is useful for work.

on the topic of x86 staying the same. extensions don't, x87 is now old and deprecated, FMA4, XOP, and CVT16 are coming when AMD finally releases Bulldozer chips.
then again, not a big deal, since the compiler handles this stuff for most people
Random32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-11, 23:18   Link #47
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Of course. The best games for any given console are often ones created between the midpoint and endpoint of the console's lifespan.

At least on PC, x86 is x86 and that isn't likely to change anytime soon. Makes coding things a bit easier.
I don't think there usually is a big correlation between how good a game is and where in the console lifespan it releases.

In the Gamecube's case, all the best games were created in the first half. Things like Beyond Good and Evil, Smash Brother Melee, Eternal Darkness, Windwaker, F-Zero, Metroid Prime, Prince of Persia, Super Mario Sunshine, and various other titles came out earlier rather than later.

I think what you can say is how good the graphics are compared to where it is in the console's lifespan as was such with Resident Evil 4 and the Gamecube.
Reckoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 00:16   Link #48
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Talk to me when consoles have keyboards ...
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 00:18   Link #49
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Talk to me when consoles have keyboards ...
Eh. I would never play a fighting game on a key board, or a racing game, or a sports game. Hell, I find it that I often prefer FPS's on consoles.

Computers generally do better with MMORPG's, some FPS's, RTS's, and a few other genres, but other than that I find consoles to better handle many other types of games.
Reckoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 01:35   Link #50
Cub-Sama
Member of DOLLARS
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the magical land of Moonswell pass
Age: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Eh. I would never play a fighting game on a key board, or a racing game, or a sports game. Hell, I find it that I often prefer FPS's on consoles.

Computers generally do better with MMORPG's, some FPS's, RTS's, and a few other genres, but other than that I find consoles to better handle many other types of games.
True with FPS's I wouldn't like to be using a mouse to point and click, I like the whole Xbox's trigger thing. Makes you feel like you're shooting a gun, also controllers have the rumble feature which I like, helps the immersion. I would only prefer a mouse in point and click games like some RPGs where controllers won't have as much precision or won't move around as much.
__________________

We are DOLLARS, credit for sig goes to CMHerrera-chan
Cub-Sama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 02:56   Link #51
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post

Also, whoever brought up Alpha Protocol as an example of a good game needs to actually play the game. It's buggy as fuck, poorly balanced and not very fun. I'm very disappointed in Obsidian for doing such a thing--KOTOR2 wasn't their fault; LucasArts railroaded them on that one, but Alpha Protocol is totally their fault.
Alpha Protocol is probably one of the best game of his generation and I have the game. Every choice you make as an impact on the game, the chracater and scenario is great, the atmosphere is great and it's not because there are a few bugs that it will change something. Pleasure to play >>>> everything. And btw, it's not buggy as fuck as you say. Have you play the game ? Kotor 2 was good even it was not as good as the first one.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Talk to me when consoles have keyboards ...
In term of pleasure and generally, console >>>>> PC. For me, a PC is not made for playing video game. You can have a keyboard with a console.
__________________
Kusa-San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 03:12   Link #52
ttdestroy
Hardcore meets Casual
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Age: 25
TBH it seems to me that consoles pulled the PC outta the crap hole it was living in since 2003-ish, I'll take X360 ports since thats usually all that gets ported.
__________________
They say you don't grow up
You just grow old,
It's safe to say I haven't done both.
ttdestroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 03:54   Link #53
Sheba
Have a Yasen Problem
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Naval Base in the rectum of Pacific Ocean
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
I'm not talking about Blizzard though. Their games have always been polished, kept people engaged for years and created huge, lasting communities around them. They deserve that popularity because their competitors are lacking that refinement.
That's actually a good point. This could also explain the enduring popularity of some titles of the past.

Thus, as a fighting game lover, I can point to Super Street Fighter II Turbo, or the lastest Guilty Gear fighting game. SSFIIT tricks you into thinking it is simple and engage you into its depth, and whereas GGXX:Accent Core is the result of nearly four years spent polishing a game system since GGX through its sequels.


A game doesn't have to have a state of the art graphics, one of the things it have to offer is enough DEPTH or/and SUBSTANCE to keep people playing it. And for that, it needs to be well refined, tuned and polished.
Sheba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 03:57   Link #54
Hooves
♣~Sleepy~♣
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 20
Send a message via Skype™ to Hooves
Knights of the Old Republic (Kotor) was unmatched in my books as one of the best Xbox RPG games I've ever played. Kotor 2 was sorta good, but I kinda lost interest in it since it really felt like their was "No Major-Plot" scenes involved at many times.
Hooves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 08:54   Link #55
ChainLegacy
廉頗
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts, US
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooves View Post
Knights of the Old Republic (Kotor) was unmatched in my books as one of the best Xbox RPG games I've ever played. Kotor 2 was sorta good, but I kinda lost interest in it since it really felt like their was "No Major-Plot" scenes involved at many times.
Probably because Kotor 2 wasn't made by Bioware. No worries though because the upcoming Star Wars mmo, The Old Republic, will be a Bioware game again.
ChainLegacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 10:15   Link #56
Hooves
♣~Sleepy~♣
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 20
Send a message via Skype™ to Hooves
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Probably because Kotor 2 wasn't made by Bioware. No worries though because the upcoming Star Wars mmo, The Old Republic, will be a Bioware game again.
Oh this gets me even more pumped when the mmo releases
Hooves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 10:26   Link #57
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
SNK made... fighting games.

I don't see how that's even in the same league as something like Shadow of the Colossus or even Portal.
I agree. There aren't many companies making thinking games nowadays. Resident Evil had a brilliant concept, but the recent RE5 only had one thinking fight - the first boss where you have to lure it around and burn it in the incinerator.

I thought RE3 had one of the most brilliant bossfight concept with Nemesis. He's big, fat, and can kill you with 2 punches on hard, however to beat that damn southpaw all you have to do is to run to his right. The most humiliating way of defeating a boss is to do it with a knife / pistol.

Alpha Protocol is just ok. I simply maxed out pistol and I can defeat any boss on hard mode - chain shot is too overpowered with the Samael Sidewinder pistol.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 10:30   Link #58
ChainLegacy
廉頗
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts, US
Age: 25
I thought the Neo-Geo Pocket was pretty cool when it first came out. An interesting coincidence SNK is being brought up, I have a huge collection of American game magazines from the 1990's-2002ish and I just recently read one called "Pocket Gamers" with a huge feature on SNK and Neo Geo. That console was reminiscent of the earlier Sega Game Gear in that it was more powerful than Nintendo's Game Boy incarnation but could not dethrone it as king of handhelds.
ChainLegacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 11:03   Link #59
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic Send a message via Skype™ to synaesthetic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Talk to me when consoles have keyboards ...
Agreeing with this. Playing an FPS without a mouse just feels wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
Alpha Protocol is probably one of the best game of his generation and I have the game. Every choice you make as an impact on the game, the chracater and scenario is great, the atmosphere is great and it's not because there are a few bugs that it will change something. Pleasure to play >>>> everything. And btw, it's not buggy as fuck as you say. Have you play the game ? Kotor 2 was good even it was not as good as the first one.
I bought Alpha Protocol on release day for the PC. I don't know about the 360 version, but the PC version was basically a half-finished beta version and was virtually unplayable. I had to roll back my Catalyst drivers just to get it to run and it was more crash-happy than FO3.

The game itself was too easy to become gamebreakingly powerful (as Saintess already mentioned, maxing pistol and using Chain Shot just ruins any semblance of difficulty). The conversation system was done much worse than Mass Effect did it.

Oh yeah and I loathe quick time events. AP's entire dialogue system is one gigantic QTE. It's horrible.

As for your choices actually making real differences in the outcome, that's very cool but it's nothing new. The Witcher did that back a couple years ago (better than AP did, I think).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooves View Post
Knights of the Old Republic (Kotor) was unmatched in my books as one of the best Xbox RPG games I've ever played. Kotor 2 was sorta good, but I kinda lost interest in it since it really felt like their was "No Major-Plot" scenes involved at many times.
I like both KOTOR titles, but I consider Sith Lords to be the superior title. I think a lot of people have issue with it because it's so dark it doesn't feel like a Star Wars game, while the first KOTOR has that cheesy-epic Star Wars feel down to a science.

There is a pretty significant plot in Sith Lords, but most people have issue puzzling it out due to the unfinished nature of the game. Play it again using stoney's Restored Content Mod and it makes a loooooot more sense. Plus the game is just overall better with the RCM installed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I agree. There aren't many companies making thinking games nowadays. Resident Evil had a brilliant concept, but the recent RE5 only had one thinking fight - the first boss where you have to lure it around and burn it in the incinerator.

I thought RE3 had one of the most brilliant bossfight concept with Nemesis. He's big, fat, and can kill you with 2 punches on hard, however to beat that damn southpaw all you have to do is to run to his right. The most humiliating way of defeating a boss is to do it with a knife / pistol.

Alpha Protocol is just ok. I simply maxed out pistol and I can defeat any boss on hard mode - chain shot is too overpowered with the Samael Sidewinder pistol.
Speaking of RE, the survival-horror genre in general seems to be on the decline. The last few RE titles were not survival horror games, but horror-flavored third-person shooters.

The closest recent game we've got to a true survival horror is Batman Arkham Asylum, but it's more an inverse-survival-horror like Parasite Eve 2 was; the bad guys aren't the horror, you are.

I miss the "thinking" games of past years--the huge, sprawling Black Isle CRPGs like Baldur's Gate II, space/economics sims like Wing Commander: Privateer (thought Freelancer came close, it didn't quite capture the same feel), adventure games with puzzles that would contort your brain (Myst comes to mind).

Games with innovative mechanics and methods of play do still exist, but as I mentioned already, we're so awash in shit--buried under the grindfest MMORPGs, the bland FPS/action titles and the steady procession of rather mediocre jRPGs, there's still a few diamonds at the bottom of that septic tank.

The problem is you gotta dive in to find them. Make sure you pack a rebreather and hip waders!
__________________
synaesthetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-13, 07:25   Link #60
Random32
Also a Lolicon
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Eh. I would never play a fighting game on a key board, or a racing game, or a sports game. Hell, I find it that I often prefer FPS's on consoles.
rumour says that MS cancelled Console+PC multiplayer because PC players destroyed the console players. proof of input device superiority for the FPS.
though, console controllers is simply better for fighting games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Talk to me when consoles have keyboards ...
I heard there was a keyboard for the PS3 or something. not sure.
but I'm pretty sure you can't use it for gaming

on the topic of input devices, have any of you tried playing an FPS using a trackpoint? infinite motion in any direction and the precision of an average mouse is a pretty enticing feature but no one makes a gaming keyboard with a trackpoint and I like my adjustable sensitivity and extra mouse buttons.
Random32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.