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Old 2010-08-17, 15:10   Link #121
Sheba
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If you are asking me if I own the lastest shiny or brown FPS, nope. Most of my games on my PC ARE doujin games, and those professional games I own are mostly "outdated" or "retro games", because I never had the luck to play them regularly on a PC (Caesar games, point & click adventure games, etc...). I am a cheap ass like that.
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Old 2010-08-17, 19:37   Link #122
Cub-Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larthak View Post
Whoa, you sure are a sworn protector of consoles, ain't ya? So, basically what you say is consoles don't have hundreds of useless games? Sure...

It's the same damn stuff. It's just that piracy ain't that spread on consoles. That's pretty much the only really major reason why consoles profit more than PCs in gaming right now. Every other pales in comparison.
I just don't like it when people overhype/act elitist about something too much, both mediums have piles of shit with some golden jewels within all that crappiness, but while PC gaming might be further ahead technology wise, for me it is too expensive and not user friendly.

I prefer consoles, the only thing I really envy about the whole PC gaming is that they have better game support because they have all that modding stuff.

Graphics don't make a whole lot of difference to me
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Old 2010-08-18, 00:32   Link #123
Random32
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Quote:
uh lol no no console is not a comptuter.
Its a computer.
"A computer is a programmable machine that receives input, stores and manipulates data//information, and provides output in a useful format"
Your console can recieve an input, store and minipulate data, and provide an output
Quote:
Futhermore, you can't compare the power of a computer and the power of a console since it's not used in the same way.
when a PC and a console run games. they do the exact same thing. they take input and the game data, manipulate it, and output it onto a screen.
Quote:
It's ridiculous. What is important with a game is to have fun with it.
I have fun gaming on my PC
Quote:
That's all. Stop with your : "Yes but console's games are bad because they are not as beautiful as PC games". LOL.
my main reason for gaming PC is that I love my mouse+keyboard
Quote:
For example, the wii is not a powerful console and yet she's a great one because of its original controller and its great game.
I think the Wii controller is innovative, but there is a lack of games that utilize the controller that are still fun after the innovativeness of the controller starts wearing off.

on the topic of multiplayer. i believe the multiplayer is still a very good reason to get a pc. xbl improves things on the console side if you have an xbox, but pc still has it far better. as for lots of people in the same room gaming, LAN party anyone? couple power strips and a router, a bit more complex than plugging in a controller, but much more fun imo.
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Old 2010-08-18, 00:35   Link #124
synaesthetic
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I like PC gaming better because I own a PC and I don't own any consoles except a broken Nintendo DS Lite.

If I owned a PS3 and a 360 in addition to my PC I would like console gaming and PC gaming equally.

It's pretty hard to not be frustrated when games you want to play come out and are only released for platforms you do not own and cannot afford.
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Old 2010-08-18, 03:39   Link #125
fertygo
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Console is much cheaper than price to build high-rig system anyway. So many people chose console over PC.
Main example : anyone can buy monitor with 1920 x 1080 resolution these day, but to playing most new game with comfortable with that resolution you need 900-1200$ worth rig.
Why they buying so high-res monitor if their rig is so-so ?
Many reason, and the reason is good enough. Proving to playing in pc you must have certain condition and not so simple as console.
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Old 2010-08-18, 08:48   Link #126
Random32
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maxpc has built a rig that plays Crysis at a good framerate with reasonable graphics quality (max DX9) at WUXGA resolution. for 500USD. last year.

PC gaming isn't as expensive as it used to be. Though consoles are still more user friendly and being appliances more than what we normally call "computers" that probably won't change.
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Old 2010-08-18, 10:57   Link #127
synaesthetic
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Not everyone who wants a high-res display is a gamer, you know. Gaming is probably only about 30% of what I do on a computer, and I always want the highest resolution display I can get regardless of what my video card looks like.

I'm hating the fact that my laptop has a low-ass resolution. 15" laptops shouldn't have anything below 1680x1050.

While dreaming I'd like a 15" lappy with a 1920x1200 RGBLED panel with 100% of the sRGB gamut!

Or, you know, for Dell to fix the vent on the Studio XPS 16 and bring back the 16" edge-to-edge RGBLED option...
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Old 2010-08-18, 13:18   Link #128
Larthak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cub-Sama View Post
I just don't like it when people overhype/act elitist about something too much, both mediums have piles of shit with some golden jewels within all that crappiness, but while PC gaming might be further ahead technology wise, for me it is too expensive and not user friendly.

I prefer consoles, the only thing I really envy about the whole PC gaming is that they have better game support because they have all that modding stuff.

Graphics don't make a whole lot of difference to me
Well, I agree with you on that elitist behavior. That's why I was a little concerned you'd be one of those on the console side. But you seem reasonable enough, so I apologize for thinking of you that way.

Since we have this thread, may I ask you guys to help me with a little research? I've been curious about it for a very long time and I'd like to know the numbers.

Could it be possible, that the player bases of consoles and PCs are also divided geographically (in majority)? What I mean is, over here in Europe I keep seeing this trend of PC dominance while in the US (+places like Japan (though that's no surprise)), there seem to be a console-centric fanbase. So if you can snip a little detail into your next posts here about your location and gaming rig preference, I'd be thankful. Not to mention that I'd love your opinions on this. If you believe it to be true or not and why. And if you think it's true, why do you think it has developed the way it did? Thx.
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Old 2010-08-18, 13:59   Link #129
fertygo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Not everyone who wants a high-res display is a gamer, you know. Gaming is probably only about 30% of what I do on a computer, and I always want the highest resolution display I can get regardless of what my video card looks like.
Exactly, that're my point. Some people can have high-res display without have a intention to be gamer, but sometime they want play some game and their rigs not capable enough to accommodate the game in resolution their display have.

I'm often meet some friend that meet this kind of inconvenience, and I'm sure that must be quite of turn down for them. And that are only of one little problem for pc gaming which make its less and less appealing for casual gamer.

So we can't really blame console just they're more simple and less problematic and appealing more people that makes (seems) gaming development focused around console gaming.
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Old 2010-08-18, 16:56   Link #130
Sugetsu
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I think I need to reinforce the message of my first post to make it a little clearer.

I am not against console games, if you go to the first page of this thread you will notice that I do love them.

What I consider detrimental to video game development, as in not just their technical aspects but also innovative game mechanics, is the current consoles of today. Namely anything starting from PS2, Xbox and Nintendo 64. Most of the blame is Microsoft's for jumping in the console market for fear of losing costumers to the popular Play station.

Everything that we see today in games is just Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, blizzard, capcom... ETC capitalizing on the innovation that was produced in the 90s. (Maybe Nintendo is off the hook, somewhat, for developing the Wii.)

Due to heavy advertising and marketing campaigns by the game console companies, the video game industry is now worth billions of dollars, to the point that CEOs are focused only on making money instead of focusing on the quality of the game itself. Companies are not developing new game mechanics; every game now falls under a specific category, which is widely accepted by the main stream.

The current console industry has defined the very image of what a video game should be, leaving little room for a game developer to think outside the main frame. Every new idea for a game in this last decade has a large degree of association to the main stream, whereas in the 80s and 90s you didn't know what to expect.

It is the heavy commercialization that has impaired gaming innovation by setting standards which in turn make game companies afraid of change.

In short: Current gaming industry = Pop music.
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Old 2010-08-18, 17:34   Link #131
justsomeguy
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@Sugetsu
Not quite true. The reason why most of the innovation was in the past is because in the past, video games were new. There were many things that hadn't been done back then, but now it's harder to think of new ideas because mostly everything has been tried, and bad idea have been pruned.

If you ask me, cultural standards and censorship harm game quality a lot more than consoles and their technical capabilities.
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Old 2010-08-18, 18:56   Link #132
mindovermatter
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regarding Sugetsu's post about how the controllers themselves prove how innovation is being hindered, I disagree. Even though the Wii might not be a modern wonder in terms of graphics, it quickly,easily, and cheaply brought motion sensitivity into the living rooms of homes that never previously had consoles (I know this for a fact).
Microsoft is quickly developing it's own motion tracking system, and that new fangeled brain reading thing.
and even before that, the Game boy DS brought touch screen into the gaming world. Soon there will be [more] 3D games. I think gaming is defiantly on the right track, and as these new interfaces become more commonplace, gamers and games will find out of the box ways to use them

edit: oh, how could I forget Guitar hero (and all it's various spin offs)! that totally broke the boundaries of conventional game controllers and game interface
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Last edited by mindovermatter; 2010-08-18 at 19:45.
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Old 2010-08-18, 21:17   Link #133
Random32
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1. On the topic of displays. I run Eyefinity for work, its one of the most useful things ever.
2. I sort of agree with Sugetsu, but its not the consoles that hinder innovation, its their success. Success means people are going to jump on board to monetize said success.
3. I think we may be able to see more innovative games soon. digital distribution is already common on the PC side of things, but isn't really that great or widespread on consoles. Digital distribution makes it easier for games outside of mainstream to be profitable. I think someone mentioned it over at the "us retailers don't want anime games" thread, but I think its worth bringing over to this thread.
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Old 2010-08-18, 21:46   Link #134
synaesthetic
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Also Sugetsu, you're totally fooling yourself if you think the game developers were ever interested in anything other than money.

The programmers, artists and writers might be interested in making awesome games, but the suits who run the companies care only about making money for the shareholders. This is nothing new or unusual.

I am highly amused at how much anti-corporate rhetoric comes out of your mouth, when your own political alignment just loves those giant corporate structures. After all, it's pretty hard to pull in billions upon billions in tax revenue from small game companies and indie developers!
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Old 2010-08-19, 09:05   Link #135
Sugetsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justsomeguy
Not quite true. The reason why most of the innovation was in the past is because in the past, video games were new. There were many things that hadn't been done back then, but now it's harder to think of new ideas because mostly everything has been tried, and bad idea have been pruned.
There is no such thing as everything has been tried out. That is only a self-limiting concept which automatically put in place when standards are created.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Also Sugetsu, you're totally fooling yourself if you think the game developers were ever interested in anything other than money.

The programmers, artists and writers might be interested in making awesome games, but the suits who run the companies care only about making money for the shareholders. This is nothing new or unusual.

I am highly amused at how much anti-corporate rhetoric comes out of your mouth, when your own political alignment just loves those giant corporate structures. After all, it's pretty hard to pull in billions upon billions in tax revenue from small game companies and indie developers!
So you think that if I want to be a video game developer is because I am only there for the money?
Thats is probably the way you view your own world and maybe it is you who only work for money and not for the desire to follow your passions.

Unfortunately, there are people who obviously enter any profession mainly for the monetary incentive, and when this happens the quality of the product is dramatically reduced. This is one of main points I am trying to make on this thread.

Take a look at Blizzard's/Activison partnership. Take a look at starcraft 2 and Battlenet 2.0, take a look at the last expansion of World of Warcraft. All these changes reflect the profit oriented shift on the approach to their games. Bobby Kotick, the current CEO, is a guy who has next to no experience as game developer and he is the one calling the shots. This disconnect between the people who do the work and the people who lead is not only one of the sure signs of company's decline in quality, but also an ever increasing factor in the gaming industry of today.

EDIT: LMAO, I was trying to link some relevant info on Kotick via google and I just stumbled across this VERY biased article, it is hilarious: Activision's Bobby Kotick brings cash, but not heart

Last edited by Sugetsu; 2010-08-19 at 09:42.
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Old 2010-08-19, 10:11   Link #136
justsomeguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
There is no such thing as everything has been tried out. That is only a self-limiting concept which automatically put in place when standards are created.
Perhaps. But it takes work to think of something new, while sticking to tried-and-true formulas brings in reliable money. This is true of all companies, and placing blame on console development is misguided.

Quote:
So you think that if I want to be a video game developer is because I am only there for the money?
Thats is probably the way you view your own world and maybe it is you who only work for money and not for the desire to follow your passions.

Unfortunately, there are people who obviously enter any profession mainly for the monetary incentive, and when this happens the quality of the product is dramatically reduced. This is one of main points I am trying to make on this thread.
You've made this point many times, both here and in your previous thread. This is something that most people already know, and it applies to most industries, so there is no need to point it out yet again.

Quote:
Take a look at Blizzard's/Activison partnership. Take a look at starcraft 2 and Battlenet 2.0, take a look at the last expansion of World of Warcraft. All these changes reflect the profit oriented shift on the approach to their games. Bobby Kotick, the current CEO, is a guy who has next to no experience as game developer and he is the one calling the shots. This disconnect between the people who do the work and the people who lead is not only one of the sure signs of company's decline in quality, but also an ever increasing factor in the gaming industry of today.

EDIT: LMAO, I was trying to link some relevant info on Kotick via google and I just stumbled across this VERY biased article, it is hilarious: Activision's Bobby Kotick brings cash, but not heart
This is a problem with most companies today, except those still run by their creators. Personally I would be against somebody with only a business degree barging in to run a company whose work he has never personally done, because that disproves the idea that passion and work ethic can take you to the top and puts people who only care about profit at the top. On the other hand, artists tend to concentrate on creating their works and completely miss out on more practical concerns, so it may be necessary.

I can definitely say that yes, there has been a drop in the release rate of good games, based on the amount I've been buying. Heck, I'm still playing an old game like Age of Mythology! Yes, focusing on profit tends to lead to less daring and more boring products, but this attitude affects most companies. Rather than blame the console companies, which merely put out reliable and predictable platforms, you should blame publishers in general.
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Old 2010-08-19, 10:17   Link #137
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
This is a problem with most companies today, except those still run by their creators. Personally I would be against somebody with only a business degree barging in to run a company whose work he has never personally done, because that disproves the idea that passion and work ethic can take you to the top and puts people who only care about profit at the top. On the other hand, artists tend to concentrate on creating their works and completely miss out on more practical concerns, so it may be necessary.
Well the sad thing is that shareholders who fund the company are the ones who elect the chairperson. Of course the chairperson's loyalty would be to the shareholders at the top job.

Democracy doesn't exist in companies. Seriously, I even doubt that the devs themselves are issued preferred shares.
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Old 2010-08-19, 10:57   Link #138
Ricky Controversy
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I would challenge anyone who believes that there are fewer good games coming out these days than there were in the past to seriously examine two things:

1. The continued development of the medium giving rise to higher, more discriminating expectations, and

2. The continued refinement of one's own personal standards as one experiences more content (not necessarily an age thing, just a volume-of-experience thing).

We were all most likely much easier to please back when we got our first Magnavox Odyssey or Atari 2600 or NES or PC than we are now. We have also likely forgotten many of the so-so games, remembering only the better half of the spectrum and the truly, extremely terrible. It's also worth noting that video games have become more of a phenomenon than they were in our formative years, so that you are more often inundated with information about games that have no appeal to you than you would have been in the past.

I think you'll find the ratio has stayed largely consistent for a while now.
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Old 2010-08-19, 11:14   Link #139
synaesthetic
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Bobby Kotick is a giant fucking douchebag and pretty much any gamer familiar with the industry thinks so.
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Old 2010-08-19, 11:18   Link #140
MeoTwister5
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If there's anything good to be said about Kotick, at least he has the good sense to not interfere with Blizzard's operations, Activision's mega cashcow.

Yet.
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