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Old 2010-08-13, 07:13   Link #61
SaintessHeart
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaze View Post
That's our difference, you only use 2 P's.

I use 4 P's:

-Product
-Price
-Promotion
-Place

+ an EXTRA P

Personnel


In common tongue:
I study a Product (Everything attached to it, from what it does to what it looks like).
I see the Price it will cost to get said product, and study the price the other guys are setting up for the same product.
I do the Promotion, which is every activity that is meant to communicate with the target market and improve the will to buy from consumers.
I make sure it's in the right Place, and with this I mean, who is the target? the retailers? the consumers? what's the place for this product to sell well.
I guess that is the difference from the marketing and the overall management departments. Management keeps things simple so they can give the information to the chairperson, who in turn uses it to answer to the shareholders.

The "base statistic of information passing" applies - the more hands the information changes, the more diluted and irrelevant it gets. And if the CP selectively omits information to keep his job, you, I, and everyone else below are all screwed.

I have never worked in any company as I am still too fresh in my course to start internship, but I dig extensively for information.


Quote:
You've got different styles of management, not every company in the world is like this, but it's true most major ones are.
Yeah, transactional, transitional and charismatic leadership, motivation of employees based on McClelland and Maslow-Alderfer Hierarchy of Needs. Most put compensation as a priority, not by a consistent value but by percentage distributions of earnings around the company.

It's always the money problem.

Quote:
Web 2.0, ever heard of it? I know you should have.
It means the consumer is communicating with the producer directly, through the internet.
A solid example of Web 2.0 would be Facebook, every major company wants it's producs on Facebook, so people can spread it around much, much faster, woldwide, for free.
If it is going through Facebook, it has to go through the channel of MLM-style - which itself IRL has become a false-hope giving monster in many societies. Governments legalise it due to their ability of generating copious amounts of corporate tax for the former - intermediary payments are reduced as the cash flow is only between supplier, seller and customer.

Back before I joined the army, I did a brief stint of affiliate marketing. Now I am back, the market has become so saturated - everyone is convinced by how it can make quick bucks (it used to be like that, now no longer).

This might in turn lead to a depreciation in quality - flash and amateur programmed games used to be free, and now it goes under Google "exclusive gaming portal". That bit of profiteering kills creativity more than piracy does. Can't be said if the bigger games suffer the same fate too.

Now Facebook ads are thriving, traffic direction and ad campaigns are going to be another numbers' game, this time at a greater expense - personal details of FB-ers. This becomes the market's opposing force that pushes customers out of the market.

Quote:
Exactly, however, they are using skimming priced strategy, they launch SC2 for 109$,
the Pioneers pre-order it,
the Early Majority buys it in the shop,
and the Late Majority buys it in the shop too, but for only 50$.
And lastly, the Laggards buy it 2 years later for 20$

In simple terms,
Launch Starcraft 2: 109$
For a few weeks it will remain 109$,
after that they will reduce the price, to maximize sales, they would reduce the price to let's say, 70$,
so people who would still like the game, but not cash out 109$ to get it, would still buy it.
After that, they keep reducing the price, to lure in more people.
Most of the fun in the game goes to the Pioneers and EM though. That is why many retailers introduce a multiplayer component to increase the number of Pioneers and EM - going late into multiplayer games kills fun : who likes getting trashed in 10 consecutive ladder matches?

Anime games don't really have alot of multiplayer capability at the start, though now it is slowly changing. The Final Fantasy and Megaten series survived largely through storylines, and with the changing market that puts more emphasis on the mindless fun and graphics factor rather than gameplay and storyline, they will see their decline in this decade unless they adapt.

P.S Atlus is smart enough to introduce interesting toys though - sticking a Jack Frost doll on the rear window at an impatient driver behind works wonders.

Quote:
This is running a company 1-o-1, the basics of management
Don't assume I'm some hick living under a rock, I know what you're talking about.
The only reason I'm not swinging around economical terms like yourself, is because I am thinking about the people who read this and don't get a clue what's going on.
That is why I used those terms, knowing that you would understand (which marketing student doesn't study economics?). If I simplify them I would be making an entire wall of text.

Quote:
Not always, take BP for example, the chairperson got nailed and so did the shareholders, they can forget any good PR for the next 20 years.
The shareholders didn't. They got their money and they have no need to give it back - if BP goes to hell they can simply dump their stock like how the Goldman Sachs shareholders did.

Usually the law kicks in for megacorps as it can affect the country's GDP, but for smaller sized companies, anyone below the majority shareholders are left to fend for themselves.

Quote:
No, we're not.
It's a general misconception that Marketing = Sales.
We hate the sales departement, and they hate us.
We are 2 different departements, not the same, and we don't answer to eachother either.

Marketing = Consumer / company PR directed
Sales = Profit directed

I have been working with a few companies for a while now, nothing major though, as I'm still in College, but in every single company, the marketing departement was split from the sales departement.
You cannot mix them.
Again, we don't answer to them, they don't answer to us.
They are 2 diffrent educations, though they might look alike, they are far from being the same.
Management wise, the managerial section are tasked with running both the Sales and Marketing under the same roof. Ugly thing is that Sales always win (as they have more say with the statistics of money they control, which is a direct relation to the overall and primary profit motive) and force their management to pressure Marketing, sometimes into unsavoury tactics.

Quote:
Exactly, I completely agree with you on this one,
however, in a small local gaming store around the corner, it would be much, much better if you knew the guy that was working there, would want what's best for you, by getting to know you.
I guess you are right. Actually what I meant by "casual gamer" is the one who simply walks into the store once per month, looks at the shelf and buys whatever looks good or is marketed to him/her without talking much to the salesperson.

I am not exactly sure about that, but I do believe the majority of gamers, of which are casual, are like that.

Quote:
Exactly, which is a reason why in teh future, you will see this much more often.
Take a look at the new PSP Go!
It doesn't use any UMD's anymore, and can only play games it has to download.
With that arises a new problem. Piracy. However, that is not our problem as none of us study Sales in detail.

Quote:
It's a good discussion, and I'm glad I finally met somebody who knows his economics, I'd use a lot more marketing terms, but:
A: I learn my courses in a different language (Have to wait till I get out of this shithole and go back to Canada to learn some proper English Marketing)
B: general readability, so others can better understand what we are talking about.
I am glad too! I learn my stuff in a private university, which runs like a cert mill rather than a school. How the heck the government legalises it I don't really want to bother.

I do believe whatever knowledge I applied here is barely the tip of the iceberg, and is simply glossed and browsed over. There might be a few deeper and critical concepts I have not learnt or know of.

Quote:
I don't really know if this was an insult or a compliment, however I am a fan of letting everybody in on a discussion, without scaring them away with walls of text and hard terms.

PS: My spelling probably plummeted with my last few posts, I just don't have the time to spell check everything with suchs huge posts.
It is a compliment to you. That bit of sarcasm was directed at ghosts who read but don't post - I find it annoying to share all of what little I know and get silence from all others who have opinions and don't want to share.

I had tons of wrong perceptions in the past when I posted, and what I actually like was being promptly corrected, nice or mean, which doesn't matter. There's still alot to learn in depth, and I am sure there is a lot of people in this forum who have more practical experience, logic and critical knowledge than me or the "certified professionals" I meet so often.
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Old 2010-08-13, 11:04   Link #62
synaesthetic
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When I have discussions about the gaming industry and the economics behind it, it always ends up pissing me off and making me consider finding a new hobby.

They just don't make them like they used to.
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Old 2010-08-13, 12:13   Link #63
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
When I have discussions about the gaming industry and the economics behind it, it always ends up pissing me off and making me consider finding a new hobby.

They just don't make them like they used to.
Which is why my 7 year old brother is playing Super Mario World behind me instead of the current edition.
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Old 2010-08-13, 12:22   Link #64
synaesthetic
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I'm playing Chrono Trigger right now.
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Old 2010-08-13, 13:46   Link #65
Arbitres
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What I'll be eternally grateful for?

Them giving Hoshigami a chance in the US. That is in all honesty, one of my favorite anime games that is also strategy.

Games with high replay value are much more liked? Anime games are the most prominent 'multi ending' in my understanding.

Retailers are just hurting themselves in the end. They can certainly hang on to the old ways and not accept anime. If they want to be relics, they might as well be; the era we bring with us will make the world a better, more harmonious place...

That is secretly controlled by Japan's distribution of anime :')

Ahh, anyways...

Quote:
others who have opinions and don't want to share.
Good reason for that? They either want to remain neutral, want to keep their opinions to themselves, or are insecure about giving their opinions. I'm honestly getting befuddled at all this in-depth talk (It's in depth to me. Since it isn't any knowledge I'd need to know since I'm going into linguistics/bilingual courses) and in all honesty, thinking about remaining 'ghost' as you put it. So just like the retailers could, they could keep their opinions to themselves because they don't know the first thing about it.

Oh well.
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Old 2010-08-13, 14:30   Link #66
Zilance
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i think Anime games will start making a comeback later on post recession when there is more money to throw around. but Japan has been self sustaining with their games for along time.

most depressing news maybe that the tales series might not be strong enough to survive, another thing i have noticed that alot of Namco Bandai's RPG's are not even getting any at all press over in the western part of the world.

In england we are seeing dragon quest sold as a kids game.... :O i remember the days of the grind and if you step out at the wrong place you are instant killed.
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Old 2010-08-13, 18:03   Link #67
Kamui4356
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Sankaku complex "article"
Four pages of discussion.

Why do you people read that? Seriously, those supermarket tabloids would be better. There's a core of truth, that is completely twisted until the article becomes bullshit. Even the example they show about the different art is from a sega genesis game. Not exactly a current example.
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Old 2010-08-13, 22:08   Link #68
synaesthetic
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That's why I said what I said in my first post.

Sankaku nonsense or not, it still spawned a good discussion over why licensed anime titles and VNs aren't widely available outside of Asia.
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Old 2010-08-14, 02:39   Link #69
Kaze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
Sankaku complex "article"
Four pages of discussion.

Why do you people read that? Seriously, those supermarket tabloids would be better. There's a core of truth, that is completely twisted until the article becomes bullshit. Even the example they show about the different art is from a sega genesis game. Not exactly a current example.
Well we sure as hell weren't discussing Sankaku, we were discussing an event that I described. read it at page 1 and 2
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Old 2010-08-14, 02:58   Link #70
technomo12
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well i did information from sankaku and im not discussing about what sankaku has its info what we are trying to discust is

WHy why why do US retailers dont want anime japanese

as a base question and here we are discusing the theory behind the what why and WTF in game retailers on why they dont like anime based games
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Old 2010-08-14, 09:42   Link #71
Kyero Fox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaze View Post
When I bought Persona 3 Portable at my local EB Games store, the Clerk asked:
A: My age (lmao wtf)
B: Told / "Warned" me that it's a "Weird crazy shit japanese game" and If I was looking for a "good" game, I should try God of War.

Seriously, I should have socked him in the mouth.
Gimme the number of that store please.....
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Old 2010-08-14, 11:38   Link #72
technomo12
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
Gimme the number of that store please.....
kaze he is asking for the store number

dude what you gonna do?? sock him?
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Old 2010-08-14, 11:43   Link #73
Kaze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
Gimme the number of that store please.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by technomo12 View Post
kaze he is asking for the store number

dude what you gonna do?? sock him?
Ahaha, I highly doubt you live in the Kingston area of Ontario

If I could sock that guy behind the counter without getting arrested, I would.
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Old 2010-08-14, 13:01   Link #74
technomo12
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Ahaha, I highly doubt you live in the Kingston area of Ontario

If I could sock that guy behind the counter without getting arrested, I would.
if you need a sniper call the A-team >_<
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Old 2010-08-14, 15:44   Link #75
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaze View Post
Ahaha, I highly doubt you live in the Kingston area of Ontario

If I could sock that guy behind the counter without getting arrested, I would.
I got that once when buying COD4 (the first MW), and that guy recommended me some "The Sims" game. I did a classical way of shutting that guy up by asking a few questions :

Q1 : Have you played that game?
Q2 : Did you read a review about it? Where did you read the review from?
Q3 : Did you see a "4" there? If so, are you aware that it is part of a series?
Q4 : How can a company keep churning out games, and porting it across platforms when it isn't even making money from it in the first place?
Q5 : Are you trying to recommend me a game you couldn't sell off the shelf?

I enjoyed the moment of messing with his head. Throughly. Being one who goes "Meh. Its ok." at most games, I usually don't rate games highly or lowly, except sandbox games with little or no objectivity like the Tycoon series. The first two words out of my mouth to my friends is "It sucks". Interestingly, the only type of sandbox games I didn't rate that are the GTA ones.

Btw, I hate the Sims. Retarded sandbox game which I got bored playing in half an hour (usually I complete all the games I play or buy, an OCD of mine. That made an exception) - no idea how it caught on to the masses.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-08-14, 16:50   Link #76
Hooves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I got that once when buying COD4 (the first MW), and that guy recommended me some "The Sims" game. I did a classical way of shutting that guy up by asking a few questions :

Q1 : Have you played that game?
Q2 : Did you read a review about it? Where did you read the review from?
Q3 : Did you see a "4" there? If so, are you aware that it is part of a series?
Q4 : How can a company keep churning out games, and porting it across platforms when it isn't even making money from it in the first place?
Q5 : Are you trying to recommend me a game you couldn't sell off the shelf?[/SIZE]
Those questions can completely smack any person that tries to recommend a different game from what you wanted, I might use those questions... Well probably use only Questions 1-2 since 3-5 seem a little to harsh.
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Old 2010-08-14, 16:55   Link #77
technomo12
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Btw, I hate the Sims. Retarded sandbox game which I got bored playing in half an hour (usually I complete all the games I play or buy, an OCD of mine. That made an exception) - no idea how it caught on to the masses.
same thoguht there dude

if it were an adult sims i would rather play it but nope its not heheheh

anyway a friend of mine said that when he got his psp and tried buying a game

the clerk forcefully suggested getting the basket ball games GOW assassin creed and dante's inferno


when he asked for some other game (ehem jap games)

the clerk was all "meh this guys a weirdo" and left him

so he just went to the counter and ask for the games he wanted a few minutes later he got the game and left he said to me he wanted to talk to the super visor because that was very rude of him

but since i was not physically there all i can say is i hope that dude dont act like that in his family
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Old 2010-08-14, 17:00   Link #78
Kaze
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On a side note:

Dante's Inferno is horrible

The first hour is: Yay! Cool!
The second hour is: Hmm, interesting
The third hour is: Err, haven't I seen this before?
The fourth hour is: Dude, fuck this shit.
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Old 2010-08-14, 17:14   Link #79
Mr. Wang
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Good lord, where do you people shop for games at? Remind me not to go there, because those clerks are complete dicks!

Seriously, they need to hire some good, considerate people to man those desks.

When I was going to buy a copy of Valkyria Chronicles the first time at a Gamestop, I asked if they had it in stock, and his first reaction was literally, quote, "What the hell is that?" He asked why I wouldn't get a mainstream game, though I shrugged his query off and found out they didn't have it.

Right, you can tell I wasn't too pleased (mainly due to the rudeness of the clerk) and left. Later on in the day, I went to another Gamestop, asked for the same game, and they had a used copy. To my surprise, the clerk asked why I wanted the game, and I replied that VC had good story, great gameplay, and the like. He smiled and said he was glad that somebody else played the game, and was happy to know that the Anime-esque games weren't dying out.

Of course, when my friends walk in on me playing the game, they still sometimes react "Why the hell are you playing this anime thing?"

So what the hell is up with the contrasts, here? Everyone's either nice at Gamestop, or complete dicks... They seriously need to hire more actual gamers that can relate to certain people's purchases, and not the typical action or mainstream gamer (or worse, non-gamers), like focusing on Call of Duty, or God of War (I'm going to admit, I've never played any of the God of War games, and I still have my PS2 and PS3 with me )
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Old 2010-08-14, 21:28   Link #80
Hooves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wang View Post
Good lord, where do you people shop for games at? Remind me not to go there, because those clerks are complete dicks!

Seriously, they need to hire some good, considerate people to man those desks.

When I was going to buy a copy of Valkyria Chronicles the first time at a Gamestop, I asked if they had it in stock, and his first reaction was literally, quote, "What the hell is that?" He asked why I wouldn't get a mainstream game, though I shrugged his query off and found out they didn't have it.
Well there are many type of people that are just looking for a job to get money, but they shouldn't react to saying "What the "hell" is that?" They should have at least replied like "I'm sorry, I don't know what your talking about" I mean that is sounding a little "clueless" but its better then saying the previous one...

Quote:
Right, you can tell I wasn't too pleased (mainly due to the rudeness of the clerk) and left. Later on in the day, I went to another Gamestop, asked for the same game, and they had a used copy. To my surprise, the clerk asked why I wanted the game, and I replied that VC had good story, great gameplay, and the like. He smiled and said he was glad that somebody else played the game, and was happy to know that the Anime-esque games weren't dying out.
Atleast there are some clerks that actually know what they are doing...

Quote:
Of course, when my friends walk in on me playing the game, they still sometimes react "Why the hell are you playing this anime thing?"
That is what I don't understand in people, we all have different interests, they should even know that themselves. So they shouldn't really comment on why your playing an anime game..

Quote:
So what the hell is up with the contrasts, here? Everyone's either nice at Gamestop, or complete dicks... They seriously need to hire more actual gamers that can relate to certain people's purchases, and not the typical action or mainstream gamer (or worse, non-gamers), like focusing on Call of Duty, or God of War (I'm going to admit, I've never played any of the God of War games, and I still have my PS2 and PS3 with me )
Well its just that people need jobs at this time, and it can't be helped what types are chosen.
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