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Old 2010-08-20, 20:41   Link #441
Used Can
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You just say that because he's fat and has a hot girlfriend.
Don't be hatin' brah.
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Old 2010-08-20, 20:54   Link #442
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He's a fat glasses wearing teakwondo master willing to kill his family for his hot girlfriend who has personality issues.Yes.
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Old 2010-08-21, 00:06   Link #443
Cruxader
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could somebody pls help me with this error?>_<
i can't read/play ep7>_<
Spoiler for ERROR>_< PLS HELP ME:


here's the new error when i reinstalled it>_<
Spoiler for waaaaaaahh TT_TT:
[/QUOTE]

and here's how my folder looks like after reinstalling
Spoiler for contents:
[/QUOTE]


HELP ME!!! TT_TT
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Old 2010-08-21, 01:45   Link #444
MeoTwister5
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Summaries for today.

This is the entirety of Will's interview with Maria.

Spoiler for Summaries:
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Old 2010-08-21, 03:51   Link #445
Oliver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruxader View Post
could somebody pls help me with this error?>_<
i can't read/play ep7>_<
Make sure every folder inside "Umineko7" contains exactly the same number of files as the same-named folder on the DVD does. If it doesn't, manually copy them over. Umineko's own installer is not very much up to par.
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Old 2010-08-21, 06:06   Link #446
Crontica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruxader View Post
could somebody pls help me with this error?>_<
i can't read/play ep7>_<
Spoiler for ERROR>_< PLS HELP ME:


here's the new error when i reinstalled it>_<
Spoiler for waaaaaaahh TT_TT:
and here's how my folder looks like after reinstalling
Spoiler for contents:
[/QUOTE]


HELP ME!!! TT_TT[/QUOTE]

And also make sure your timezone is Japan, mah games barely worked till i did that.
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Old 2010-08-21, 11:11   Link #447
MeoTwister5
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Last summaries for today.

This is the entirety of Will's interview with Jessica.

Spoiler for Summaries:


I don't think I've fully understood why Will is always asking about the seating arrangement of the family...
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Old 2010-08-21, 11:25   Link #448
Oliver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I don't think I've fully understood why Will is always asking about the seating arrangement of the family...
Because Ushiromiya sit in a very specific order, sorted by family ranking. Kinzo, Krauss, Eva, Rudolf, Rosa, Leon, Jessica, George, Battler, Maria, Natsuhi, Hideyoshi, Kyrie, any guests. The table is populated top-down left-right, imagining Kinzo at the very top and looking at the table from the ceiling down.

Kinzo's place at the head of the table is always there even if he is not present, other places are filled sliding up depending on who is present. In a world where Leon exists, there is no way for Maria to end up sitting next to Rosa if all of Krauss family, Rosa and Maria are present. Similarly, Ange's seat, left empty in Jessica's story because Ange was present on the island but did not attend the meal, will be alternating between left and right from Jessica if Leon is inserted into the ranking and if he does not exist.

EDIT: And speaking of seating order and ranking.

How exactly does Kinzo, given the submarine story and enough happy years with his beloved Beatrice, a woman he definitely envisions as a strong personality matching his own, develop such misogyny that he buys Krauss a wife (!) and smears that misogyny into Eva's face?

And for that matter... why the heck Rosa is even born, when it is very likely to have happened during the period Beatrice-1 was around and still alive?!
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Last edited by Oliver; 2010-08-21 at 11:38.
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Old 2010-08-21, 12:32   Link #449
musouka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
How exactly does Kinzo, given the submarine story and enough happy years with his beloved Beatrice, a woman he definitely envisions as a strong personality matching his own, develop such misogyny that he buys Krauss a wife (!) and smears that misogyny into Eva's face?
Thinking one woman is your equal is not the same as thinking all women are your equal.
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Old 2010-08-21, 12:36   Link #450
Oliver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
Thinking one woman is your equal is not the same as thinking all women are your equal.
No, but it surely prompts you to give them a second chance once in a while, doesn't it. And notice that during the submarine story, there is no sign of misogyny in Kinzo's behaviour at all.
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Old 2010-08-21, 13:23   Link #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
No, but it surely prompts you to give them a second chance once in a while, doesn't it. And notice that during the submarine story, there is no sign of misogyny in Kinzo's behaviour at all.
Said love dies leaving him with the family he hates and despises. I can assume where the misogyny and distaste comes from.

After all I wouldn't put it past kinzo.
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Old 2010-08-21, 13:48   Link #452
Used Can
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
No, but it surely prompts you to give them a second chance once in a while, doesn't it. And notice that during the submarine story, there is no sign of misogyny in Kinzo's behaviour at all.
Well, Kinzo in the flashback doesn't behave like Kinzo at all.

One of the things we're told in this game, and this applies to real life too, is that people change over time.
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Old 2010-08-21, 15:04   Link #453
Oliver
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...meanwhile, rereading my notes of Ep7, I had a minor epiphany.
  1. When the adults meet Beatrice in the gold storage room, they very carefully scrutinise her from very close up. I imagine if stares could leave holes, Beatrice would be a sieve well before Kyrie shot her. Yet nobody recognises her as Shannon or Kanon. This requires a significant suspension of disbelief to stomach, as even the most stretched logic of "nobody recognises Kanon as Shannon or vice versa because they're used to seeing either" no longer applies. Beatrice behaves like she's made of cardboard throughout, and would actually be better off replaced by a letter.
  2. Having killed Beatrice, Kyrie does not at all wonder where did Shannon or Kanon or both go. If she honestly believes she needs to kill everyone before the bomb blows, which is in itself doubtful as it makes so little sense compared to her usual rational behaviour, this should have made her really, really worried, but for some unusual reason it did not.
  3. Battler is the one who picks up the phone. However, he is immediately told to hand it over to George, and from then on doesn't participate in the conversation much. After that, Battler leaves for the chapel and mysteriously vanishes, never referred to again.
  4. Bernkastel tells Leon to look "into an adjacent kakera", where he observes his own dead body. However, they are currently on the gameboard, as the ???? sequence clearly shows. A gameboard is not, as such, a cat box, and Bernkastel herself treats that gameboard like only one exists. An infinity of games can be played on a given gameboard -- but at any given moment, only one game can be running, right? That is the case with anything else we call a gameboard, after all.
  5. Bernkastel tells Leon that in the said "adjacent kakera", Leon's home world, Kinzo, when the succession question was brought up again, dropped the epitaph on the siblings. However, Kinzo's life or death status in this world is uncertain, as Kinzo disappears midway through his own testimony and even if Kinzo is dead at the start of all games does not apply to this one, it should still give us some thought.

From the above, my idea is:

The kakera Bernkastel shows Leon is not actually adjacent. It is the same world that the entire episode occurs in -- Leon's world! Battler actually disappears in such a manner because he has never been there in the first place, and the scene with him was inserted to give the impression that this was a world where Leon did not exist! Bernkastel's red "This is all true" does actually not prevent her from mixing in scenes from a completely different story, as the testimony earlier in the episode exemplifies -- as long as the scenes mixed in into the Kyrie+Rudolf rampage story are also "true". Certain scenes could even have come from Episode 4 verbatim. The murderous rampage actually happens in this manner only because it is a world where Leon exists, not in spite of him existing, and Bernkastel's assurance to the contrary is her real supertroll for this evening!
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Old 2010-08-21, 15:41   Link #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
How exactly does Kinzo, given the submarine story and enough happy years with his beloved Beatrice, a woman he definitely envisions as a strong personality matching his own, develop such misogyny that he buys Krauss a wife (!) and smears that misogyny into Eva's face?
Do Natsuhi or Eva have a submarine and ten tons of unmarked gold? I didn't think so. I rest my case.
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Old 2010-08-21, 15:45   Link #455
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Seriously I always thought young Kinzo was akin to Batter (not just physically, mentally).
But yeah the iron first with which he ruled his family seems to contrast the idea of someone who outright hates his family.

Actually if he really hated his family so much, why the hell did he bother to get four children?

That whole thing isn't very credible to me.
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Old 2010-08-21, 15:46   Link #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
How exactly does Kinzo, given the submarine story and enough happy years with his beloved Beatrice, a woman he definitely envisions as a strong personality matching his own, develop such misogyny that he buys Krauss a wife (!) and smears that misogyny into Eva's face?
What other people already said, plus another thing.
In the end of Episode 7, during the flashbacks that Rion has we see a scene, where another soldier says, that it was Kinzo's plan to attack the Italians. I assume that he was not as unaffected by the gold like he envisioned himself to be and the end of the war would have meant for him to part with his Beatrice. So I could imagine him cooking up a plan where he would get the gold and Beatrice, because when he saved her she had pretty much not other choice than staying with him.

I don't think that his relation towards women was ever pretty much different from the patriarchical view we got of him during the first 4 episodes. For him Beatrice was always something beautiful, something he wanted to possess and use...but it never seemed like she was an actual person for him.

Quote:
Yet nobody recognises her as Shannon or Kanon. This requires a significant suspension of disbelief to stomach, as even the most stretched logic of "nobody recognises Kanon as Shannon or vice versa because they're used to seeing either" no longer applies.
It is never said wether or not they recognize the Beatrice downstairs as anybody. They just ask wether she is actually Beatrice and they accept when she says so and explains her plan.
Even if she was someone they so far knew under another name, meeting said person in an underground storage room that can only be accessed by solving the Epitaph, with tons of gold and the same outfit as the Beatrice they know from portraits or memories, would pretty much be sufficient to make them believe that.

What they said was as ambigious as what Natsuhi said in the end of Episode 1 "So far I didn't believe that somebody like you could really exist..." and several other lines that never actually make a definite statement.

Quote:
However, Kinzo's life or death status in this world is uncertain, as Kinzo disappears midway through his own testimony and even if Kinzo is dead at the start of all games does not apply to this one, it should still give us some thought.
Well...this ties in with another mystery we still haven't fully solved. That is how in Episode 4, Kinzo was able to appear before them and be recognized by all of them as the man he is.
We would have to know what exactly was meant in that scene. If an actuall Kinzo announced the Epitaph verbally, or if they were confronted with his corpse and his will (including the Epitaph).
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Old 2010-08-21, 15:47   Link #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Do Natsuhi or Eva have a submarine and ten tons of unmarked gold? I didn't think so. I rest my case.
I like you ~♥
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Old 2010-08-21, 15:47   Link #458
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The way the timeline works, I think he could already have most of his children by the time he meets Beatrice, just not Rosa. So that just makes Rosa stand out oddly.

EDIT: Say, Leon is supposed to be in the parlor. Does Battler ever enter the parlor during his ep4 search for all the bodies? Just a wacky out-there thought...
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Old 2010-08-21, 15:52   Link #459
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He didn't hate his family before meeting Beatrice?
... He's getting a worst person by the minute.
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Old 2010-08-21, 15:52   Link #460
Oliver
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Do Natsuhi or Eva have a submarine and ten tons of unmarked gold? I didn't think so. I rest my case.
Ok, fine. But what about Rosa?

So while Beatrice-1 with her submarine and gold is alive and about 2km away, he fathers Rosa with his legal wife, which he hates, has no obligation or need whatsoever to please, especially now that he has the gold and business is picking up, so whatever considerations that caused this marriage to start are no longer there. What?...

Or, worse yet, Beatrice-1 is recently dead and left a daughter he has to keep secret, so he makes another one, so that he now has to be a father simultaneously to two girls that should never, ever meet each other.

Something is very much not right here.
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