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Old 2010-12-03, 22:19   Link #1801
Jan-Poo
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pretty much, yes.
However I don't think that Genji told that Yasu was 3 years younger to the orphanage. He probably just told that to the Ushiromiya family and the servants working for them.

Even supposing that Genji kept Yasu somewhere for 3 years, how exactly would he convince the people at the orphanage that a 3 years old child was a newborn baby?
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Old 2010-12-03, 22:25   Link #1802
DaBackpack
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
pretty much, yes.
However I don't think that Genji told that Yasu was 3 years younger to the orphanage. He probably just told that to the Ushiromiya family and the servants working for them.

Even supposing that Genji kept Yasu somewhere for 3 years, how exactly would he convince the people at the orphanage that a 3 years old child was a newborn baby?
That's true, but I was thinking that it would make more sense for the orphanage to give Yasu to Rokkenjima if they knew he/she wasn't only 6 years old (even though he/she receives the same minimum amount of education prior to starting); although I guess making Yasu come to school during the school-week fixes that.

I'm finding all of these plot twists to be hilarious: Kinzo actually having 6 children (2 out-of-wedlock, 1 the result of incest) and Shannon having all of these imaginary friends/alternate personalities. Not to mention Genji successfully lying to everyone for god knows how long.
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Old 2010-12-03, 22:27   Link #1803
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It's not that hard to lie when you're Genji. I mean everyone basically treats the guy like a robot.
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Old 2010-12-04, 07:48   Link #1804
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What makes me wonder is... how could Yasu not realize that she had more than 6 years?
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Old 2010-12-04, 08:48   Link #1805
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done reading 50% patch. nice. i like the show! 'let it be heard, i am one yet many. what i speak of is our tale' extramly good.

what a sad tale. im sure i will end with tears in my eyes in the end of the episode.
also the 'whydunnit' ...battler's sin from 6 years ago is and easy one. we all know what he did.
i guess its something like that: shanon who had already created the first version of beatrice and become part of it (its not split personality more then its a form of delirium, shanon now have another 'soul' inside of her named beatrice). met with maria, from that the secound version was created.
then 'beatrice' fell in love with battler. however he left the ushiromya- and she was abandomed. the weak witch was seald inside shanon. and shanon fell in love with george.
however battler showed up 6 years letter. and beatrice woke up. trying to help battler to get the head's postion is one part, but the secound part was to make battler aknwoledge her existence.

but there is one thing i dont undearstand.
beatrice said that she will stop the killing if someone will find the gold. but as we already know, the killing still continued anyway.
in episode 3 it could pass as 'eva didnt tell anyone, and killerd the only one who knew -rosa. so beatrice didn't have the ability to know about it'
however its a diffrent case in episode 5: even after battler found the gold, and everyone knew about it, the killing continued.
if so then why?
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Old 2010-12-04, 09:06   Link #1806
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
What makes me wonder is... how could Yasu not realize that she had more than 6 years?
I think she was simply told she was 6. If she never celebrated anything like birthdays, or followed any holiday or any particular date, then if she asked her age and she was told she was 6, she'd simply roll with it, no questions asked.
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Old 2010-12-04, 12:36   Link #1807
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Reading EP7 right now, but...

When Will asked to see Kanon, SWEET JESUS, Shannon literally malfunctioned, it was sooo creepy O_o

....ShKanon, anyone?
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Old 2010-12-04, 12:53   Link #1808
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Originally Posted by serverwolf View Post
then 'beatrice' fell in love with battler. however he left the ushiromya- and she was abandomed. the weak witch was seald inside shanon. and shanon fell in love with george.
You forgot what Beatrice said in EP4.
Beatrice didn't exist for Battler 6 years before and he didn't sin against Beatrice.

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I think she was simply told she was 6. If she never celebrated anything like birthdays, or followed any holiday or any particular date, then if she asked her age and she was told she was 6, she'd simply roll with it, no questions asked.
Yasu might be mad but isn't stupid. You need to consider things in perspective. Yasu didn't have 6 years when she went to Rokkenjima, she had 9 years. Children of that age aren't that clueless.
Yasu basically had 9 years and she was told she had 6 years. How is that possible? I think her memories should go at the very least as back as when she had 4 years, that means in the worst case scenario she would remember the passing of at least 5 years and she should realize that back then she didn't have just 1 year. Even if her birthday has never been celebrated, there are stuff that you just can't miss: the passing of seasons and the festivities. Are you telling me that an orphanage that's named after the gospel doesn't celebrate Christmas?!
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Old 2010-12-04, 13:41   Link #1809
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Yasu would have to be complicit in any hiding of her actual age. You could confuse a 9-year-old kid for a while, but they're not stupid. They'd eventually get confused by it, especially if they're hanging out with kids their own supposed age. I think a 12-year-old, even an underdeveloped one, is going to notice that they're not the same as the 9-year-olds they go to class with.
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Old 2010-12-04, 14:11   Link #1810
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If Yasu is female, it would be even harder to hide the truth from her.
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Old 2010-12-04, 15:01   Link #1811
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Quote:
What makes me wonder is... how could Yasu not realize that she had more than 6 years?
She was told to lie so that she could work on Rokkenjima, a prestigious honor. She lies even in the narrative.

Quote:
but there is one thing i dont undearstand.
beatrice said that she will stop the killing if someone will find the gold. but as we already know, the killing still continued anyway.
in episode 3 it could pass as 'eva didnt tell anyone, and killerd the only one who knew -rosa. so beatrice didn't have the ability to know about it'
however its a diffrent case in episode 5: even after battler found the gold, and everyone knew about it, the killing continued.
if so then why?
The generally agreed theory is that the First Twilights are faked and everyone is playing a game that Battler isn't in on, but then someone ELSE starts killing people for real.
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Old 2010-12-04, 15:18   Link #1812
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Yeah, I imagine the people in EP1 going "lets go to the shed and get the things to dress up the chapel for the party" then they get murdered. In episode two "All right the chapel is dressed up for the party!" then they get murdered.
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Old 2010-12-04, 15:38   Link #1813
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Yasu might be mad but isn't stupid. You need to consider things in perspective. Yasu didn't have 6 years when she went to Rokkenjima, she had 9 years. Children of that age aren't that clueless.
Yasu basically had 9 years and she was told she had 6 years. How is that possible? I think her memories should go at the very least as back as when she had 4 years, that means in the worst case scenario she would remember the passing of at least 5 years and she should realize that back then she didn't have just 1 year.
She shouldn't have necessarily been told about her age by the time she was 9, but maybe a bit earlier. I think that, if say, she was told about her (fake) age, by the time she was 6 or 7, it'd probably be believable enough to deceive her. We're also told she had a frail body, and it seems she started developing later than other girls - not to mention there wasn't really anyone for her to compare herself with, when the other girls were basically 10 years older than her. I also think there were many other things in her mind for her to being concerned about discrepancies between her age and what her memories should be telling her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Even if her birthday has never been celebrated, there are stuff that you just can't miss: the passing of seasons and the festivities. Are you telling me that an orphanage that's named after the gospel doesn't celebrate Christmas?!
My University was named after a Catholic saint, and we never celebrated anything in particular, not even Christmas.
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Old 2010-12-04, 15:40   Link #1814
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She was told to lie so that she could work on Rokkenjima, a prestigious honor. She lies even in the narrative.
That's the only way to explain it, but we have never seen any info of that sort. Yasu would also wonder why she needs to pretend to be 3 years younger, it's not like Genji could tell her the truth.

I don't think Yasu could find any logic explanation for that, from her perspective the problem there was that she was too young, not too old.
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Old 2010-12-04, 19:17   Link #1815
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Pretending to be younger is indeed very strange, especially if she's supposed to start working at age 6 (real age 9). By the time I was about 14-15 I'd definitely be wondering why Genji was still asking me to claim to be 12. Especially since it seems to have no particular purpose.

Come to think of it, would it really make sense to do that at all? Particularly for Kinzo's sake... wouldn't he want Kinzo to take the hint?
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Old 2010-12-04, 19:23   Link #1816
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Pretending to be younger is indeed very strange, especially if she's supposed to start working at age 6 (real age 9). By the time I was about 14-15 I'd definitely be wondering why Genji was still asking me to claim to be 12. Especially since it seems to have no particular purpose.

Come to think of it, would it really make sense to do that at all? Particularly for Kinzo's sake... wouldn't he want Kinzo to take the hint?
It's likely that Genji was worried that happened with Beatrice II could happen with Yasu. That is Kinzo becomes temporarily insane and molests her. So, trying to mislead him might be better for Yasu's sake.
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Old 2010-12-04, 20:37   Link #1817
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Because Yasu didn't know his/her real age. So, s/he's born, thrown off the cliff, and being subtracted 3 years to his/her age after that. Since everyone around sees Yasu as the portrayed age (not real age) yasu really can't tell it until Genji/Kumasawa told yasu. I mean, can you really prove your age? It's not like you can remember when you were born and all records are susceptible to forgery.
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Old 2010-12-04, 20:47   Link #1818
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Pretending to be younger is indeed very strange, especially if she's supposed to start working at age 6 (real age 9). By the time I was about 14-15 I'd definitely be wondering why Genji was still asking me to claim to be 12. Especially since it seems to have no particular purpose.

Come to think of it, would it really make sense to do that at all? Particularly for Kinzo's sake... wouldn't he want Kinzo to take the hint?
I thought the purpose was to hide Yasu's real identity from Natsuhi so that Yasu could live in Rokkenjima without causing any conflict.
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Old 2010-12-04, 22:28   Link #1819
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Hypotheses about Yasu:

1) Yasu is the child from 19 years ago, who survived the fall off the cliff. (Why is there no mention of kakera where the kid didn't survive the fall / the servant did?)

2) Yasu is a random Fukuin child, chosen for ??? reason.

3) Yasu is a particular Fukuin child (perhaps Nanjo's granddaughter, or Genji's illegitimate child), who was ultimately involved in a plot to inherit by proxy. (See http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-04/042106edward.html#i2 )

It doesn't need to have been planned as a scam from the beginning; perhaps Genji wanted his daughter to be near him at first; as Kinzo became increasingly dissatisfied with his own line, Genji saw the opportunity to have his own daughter named successor.

A phony Yasu wouldn't have to be a very good substitute to convince Kinzo; people desperate to find someone have been known to accept obvious imposters. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tichborne_Case
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Old 2010-12-04, 22:51   Link #1820
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(Why is there no mention of kakera where the kid didn't survive the fall / the servant did?)
Because there's no drama in those kakera.
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