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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier: Sayonara no Tsubasa Movie Rating
Perfect 10 40 42.11%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 33 34.74%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 12.63%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 5.26%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 3.16%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 2.11%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-10-31, 10:54   Link #2901
Yot-chan
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Well for as many times as you've mentioned me in this sub-forum when I have obviously not been around, you must yearn for me in some way. Miss me Yot? Wish I was around like I use to be?
Wow...I mentioned you ONCE (in a list, no less!) in the space of, what, a year and a half or so? And you're waxing orgasmic about it...

Guess we know how desperate for love you are, huh?

But, okay, I'll grant you this...when I think of Macross fans who make me slightly embarrassed to be a Macross fan, I think of you. When I think of Sheryl fans that make me REALLY embarrassed to be a Sheryl fan, I think of you. When I think of what's bad about western Macross fandom...erm, well...I think of a bunch of Robotech fans and Tommy Yune. But you're on that list somewhere.

So yes...your obnoxiousness has won you a place in my heart. Not a good place, mind you...but hey...it's something, I guess.
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Old 2011-10-31, 10:56   Link #2902
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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
I never said that. Quit putting words in my keyboard output.

I meant you're the most evil of Sheryl's fans, since you admitted you'be "apeshit with delight" if they had harvested Ranka's organs to save Sheryl.
Never assume, man...how do you know I'm including myself among "most of the fans here"...?
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Old 2011-10-31, 10:57   Link #2903
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
He was developed along different lines in the movie than in the series, the character growth emphasized in the series was truncated to develop other parts of him. I still prefer series!Alto, although movie!Alto also is fine.
which other parts?
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Old 2011-10-31, 11:01   Link #2904
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Movie Alto was far more decisive than series Alto. Then again, we also have to consider this as a two hour production and therefore, much of the soap-opera drama in the TV series was condensed.

Pretty much the same character imo, just accelerated.

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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
So yes...your obnoxiousness has won you a place in my heart. Not a good place, mind you...but hey...it's something, I guess.
Do I have a place in your heart too!? ... ... ...

Oh wait, DON'T answer that.

- Tak
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Old 2011-10-31, 11:22   Link #2905
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Aawwwwww... Tak is lonely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Never assume, man...how do you know I'm including myself among "most of the fans here"...?
I guess it was the "maybe it's just me" bit that threw me off, then.
But you do have an evil side, nonetheless. Oh, yes. Just look at poor justinstrife writhing there on the floor...

On to the character changes for this movie... I'd guess most of them were the same as their TV counterparts - I mean, honestly, who'd notice changes in the side characters like Ozma, Cathy, Klan and Michael over a couple of minutes of dialogue over both films? There's not even enough to compare, honestly. Although Cathy not having an affair with mushroom-head is a big bonus. And surfing seems to be a thing there, eh?

Now, as for the mains... Ranka was reworked masterfully, IMHO. I actually felt bad for her, when she confessed, for I could see that she was not reciprocated. Really, that had to hurt - I'd think much less than the actual rejection later on. Overall, her character benefited the most from the accelerated span of these two movies. And I loved what they did, here.

Now, Sheryl... she was mostly the same, but I did find her knowing more about Galaxy's conspiracy kinda made her feel more... I dunno, fallible? And anyone who says she didn't feel bad about killing Ranka should pay better attention to her scenes from when Grace tells her about it until Ranka's concert. She looks positively miserable, sitting there. Not a calculating face, but a worried one. At least, that's what it seemed to me. Nevertheless, it was a curious bit of drama - some rather drastic difference from the TV series, and I didn't really understand the point fully. Oh, well... She was still awesome, pushing Ranka to safety - actually sacrificing herself, for she had no way to survive there. That takes some guts, y'all.

Alto was also mostly the same, his character arc greatly reduced and simplified, but his actions were mostly "in-character" with his TV-series incarnation - outside from the goth-chick outfit (which was awesome, by the way). Loved the clarification of his feelings, tho, even if he was cut off at the end.

Grace was awesome. 'Nuff said. And Brera must have been a producer in this flick. That's the only explanation for how cool he was.
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Old 2011-10-31, 11:23   Link #2906
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Do I have a place in your heart too!? ... ... ...

Oh wait, DON'T answer that.

- Tak
Kind of. As the grumpy old dude who really only likes the mecha scenes but also can't resist playing matchmaker to the Kabuki Princess.
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Old 2011-10-31, 11:25   Link #2907
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I guess it was the "maybe it's just me" bit that threw me off, then.
But you do have an evil side, nonetheless. Oh, yes. Just look at poor justinstrife writhing there on the floor...
I know, poor guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
And Brera must have been a producer in this flick. That's the only explanation for how cool he was.
Hmm...would you say the same about Focker's WAAAY more macho death in DYRL, as well?
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Old 2011-10-31, 11:34   Link #2908
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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Now, as for the mains... Ranka was reworked masterfully, IMHO. I actually felt bad for her, when she confessed, for I could see that she was not reciprocated. Really, that had to hurt - I'd think much less than the actual rejection later on. Overall, her character benefited the most from the accelerated span of these two movies. And I loved what they did, here.
Ranka's redeeming factor was not enclosing herself in a bubble, believing solely that her actions would have benefited those around her without ever consulting them first. That was her biggest problem in the TV series, which led to a series of clusterfuck.

See how wonderfully it worked out once she actually sat down, planned out the next step with... everyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Hmm...would you say the same about Focker's WAAAY more macho death in DYRL, as well?
I don't know, its a tie between that and... walking while dripping blood, shrugging it off because he had a date, and making it to Claudia's, played a song, waited for her to make salad then die in her arms (well, sort of)... priceless.

- Tak
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Old 2011-10-31, 11:34   Link #2909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Hmm...would you say the same about Focker's WAAAY more macho death in DYRL, as well?
Well, he was dead already, so there's no harm in making him look even more cool, now is there? The surviving parties (like Claudia) probably even required it, or something... maybe to forget the pineapple salad or the like.
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Old 2011-10-31, 11:36   Link #2910
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Well, he was dead already, so there's no harm in making him look even more cool, now is there? The surviving parties (like Claudia) probably even required it, or something...
So Claudia was a producer on DYRL...? I can accept that.
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Old 2011-10-31, 11:40   Link #2911
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Well, going by the notions of movies about real events, like that one Kawamori interview, this seems kind of appropriate, wouldn't you say?
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Old 2011-10-31, 11:47   Link #2912
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Originally Posted by Aqua Knight View Post
which other parts?
Well. Alto from the series was a far more reserved character up until the end. Outside of his battle rage ( immortalized with such epic utterings as "Gyaaaah!" and "Aarrgggh!" ) it was very difficult for most people to get much of an emotional reaction out of him. The only ways seemed to be to question his manlyness and... being Sheryl.

A consequence of that was that many people missed how his character growth developed. There were very few instances of his friends simply asking him what made him tick and he didn't offer that important information by himself, so much of what he went through had to be inferred simpy by his actions.

The most important aspect of his character development in the series was not, as in the movie, that he stopped things by half-measure... that simply happened after a certain point and wasn't even mentioned by the other characters. The most important thing for Alto of the series was to realize how much he really loved his home, his people and his friends and to assume the duty and responsibility to protect them. While he at first had to find an excuse to enter into the fight ( i.e. "protecting Ranka" ), he later on fully embraced his duties and therefore achieved character growth... he turned into an adult.

There is also the aspect of his reconciliation with his family and that he sacrificed some of his convictions ( like never returning to his home ) to help out Sheryl when she needed him most. In a sense, series!Altos story is also a tale of giving up misplaced convictions, to make room for a more informed and adult take on things.


In comparison, my analysis of Alto from the movies will seem somewhat anemic, since it has been only a few days since I've seen the second movie and months since my last perusal of the first one. But the aspects which I mentioned for Alto from the TV series are largely absent in the movie. His conflict with his family disappeared almost completely and his dislike for living in the confines of Frontier also was vastly de-emphasized. Therefore, the journey he took in the series could not happen in the movies, so a different tack was adopted for the character.

The point I made about his being not very open with his feelings was something which many fans criticised about the character, so the writers decided on him getting asked more about what made him tick. I will not say that Alto from the series would have reacted differently from movie Altos open confessions of his inner state, because nobody ever questioned him so deeply in the series, not even Ranka in that scene at Griffith Memorial. So, Alto appeared to be much more outgoing in the movies, as the writers made scenes happen where he was actually asked about himself.

The focus on his inner struggles abandoned the question of duty and responsibility to home, friends and family and put it squarely on an aspect which was mentioned in the series, but which vanished under the narrative they chose to go with there. In the movies, people constantly question if Alto is doing things my half-measure, never really committing to something fully. It is only resolved when Sheryl seems to die in the second movie, in a pretty epically emotional scene of friendship and companionship between Alto and Michael ( sometimes it just takes the right body language).

There is another focus on Altos gender identity issues in the first movie, but this was largely abandoned in movie two. Which was for the best, outside of him getting really angry about being called "princess", I did not see that aspect at all in the portrayal of the character in the TV series.


All in all, I vastly prefer the characterization advancement of the TV series character. He had more flaws, he seemed more human and his character arc resonated more with me. Things like assuming duty and responsibility are more interesting to me than resolving to do things at full measure... something which Alto from the series did do anyway later on, without having a public resolution to do so.

I would have liked Alto from the series to be more open with his feelings and declare his love for Sheryl clearly and openly. But the first didn't happen because nobody was tasked by the writers to ask him about how he felt and the second, well, I think that things after the roll of the final credits went very much my way. The second movie kinda vindicates me on that.


Now, if only Michael had survived the series and the meeting of chibi-Sheryl and chibi-Alto were canon in the series, I could give the clear edge to the series over the movies, but those two factors weigh heavily on my mind...
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Old 2011-10-31, 11:49   Link #2913
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Well, going by the notions of movies about real events, like that one Kawamori interview, this seems kind of appropriate, wouldn't you say?
Definitely. The one problem I have with Crusader's view that the Frontier movies are "in-universe" productions is that, while DYRL is definitively claimed as that, the Plus and 7 movies aren't...so there's really no evidence to go on for the Frontier movies being "movies-within-a-movie."

Hell, I'd be happy if people took it as a parallel universe...
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Old 2011-10-31, 11:50   Link #2914
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Plus and 7 movies aren't...so there's really no evidence to go on for the Frontier movies being "movies-within-a-movie."

Hell, I'd be happy if people took it as a parallel universe...
To be fair, it wasn't claimed otherwise, either.

Though I bet the next Macross series would combine both elements of the series & the movie, like they always do.

- Tak
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Old 2011-10-31, 11:51   Link #2915
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Oh, and incidentally...got around to watching the staff and cast interview.

If you go back to where I was first posting about the movie from my Kindle, on the day of the movie's debut, you will know EXACTLY the time that staff and cast stuff was going on.

I was in the same building, and joined the party a little later.
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Old 2011-10-31, 12:12   Link #2916
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Definitely. The one problem I have with Crusader's view that the Frontier movies are "in-universe" productions is that, while DYRL is definitively claimed as that, the Plus and 7 movies aren't...so there's really no evidence to go on for the Frontier movies being "movies-within-a-movie."
The inherent irony of Ranka needing a "redemption movie" and the writers still not being able to provide a AxR ending for her is very appealing to me.
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Old 2011-10-31, 12:15   Link #2917
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The inherent irony of Ranka needing a "redemption movie" and the writers still not being able to provide a AxR ending for her is very appealing to me.
Of course it is.

Just as Sheryl and Alto almost getting together is very appealing to me.
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Old 2011-10-31, 13:27   Link #2918
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Just as Sheryl and Alto almost getting together is very appealing to me.
You see? Evil. Bad Gubaba, bad.

On an altogether unrelated note, just how disgusting was the Galaxy cabal's true form? I mean, talk about writhing nightmares...
Also, let me be the first one to say: I didn't really love even a single one of the new songs. In either of the movies. Honestly, the only real stirring of emotion in me was when that Diamond Crevasse clip started playing... Am I weird?
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Old 2011-10-31, 13:33   Link #2919
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Too bad I missed the strikeback message. Tsk.
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Old 2011-10-31, 13:35   Link #2920
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You see? Evil. Bad Gubaba, bad.

On an altogether unrelated note, just how disgusting was the Galaxy cabal's true form? I mean, talk about writhing nightmares...
Also, let me be the first one to say: I didn't really love even a single one of the new songs. In either of the movies. Honestly, the only real stirring of emotion in me was when that Diamond Crevasse clip started playing... Am I weird?
Yes. Deeply weird.

But how did you feel about the medley?
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