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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier: Sayonara no Tsubasa Movie Rating
Perfect 10 40 42.11%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 33 34.74%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 12.63%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 5.26%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 3.16%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 2.11%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-11-24, 01:43   Link #3441
Thess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
As for Alto/Ranka romance, not a lot of people want to admit that they support her. I think the shame of Ep.24-25 brought a lot of people down. I know it did for me. I didn't want them to harm her character like that but Yoshino sunk to the lowest form of hell there is for Ranka... honestly, the lengths they go to just to make you wanna like Sheryl, it disgusts me.
You realize that Yoshino and Kawamori both are Sheryl fans (as in character)? Kawamori said he liked Sheryl over Ranka, but Grace was his favorite girl (which explains her changed role in the movies since he scripted those to sneak a redemption arc and more nude scenes ), Yoshino obviously loves Sheryl. I don't know if he ever did an interview, but his own MF manga should be testament for it.

I'm speaking about Ranka's Japanese fanbase. They have always been very open they like wincest-siscon end or Yuri over Alto. That's why the official fanservice with Ranka mostly involves Sheryl or Brera and very rarely Alto (unless it's a Triangle shot).
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Old 2011-11-24, 01:58   Link #3442
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LMK - I'm just gonna assume you're being sarcastic... So we don't start a debate over my OWN words.

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Old 2011-11-24, 02:37   Link #3443
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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
You realize that Yoshino and Kawamori both are Sheryl fans (as in character)? Kawamori said he liked Sheryl over Ranka, but Grace was his favorite girl (which explains her changed role in the movies since he scripted those to sneak a redemption arc and more nude scenes ), Yoshino obviously loves Sheryl. I don't know if he ever did an interview, but his own MF manga should be testament for it.

I'm speaking about Ranka's Japanese fanbase. They have always been very open they like wincest-siscon end or Yuri over Alto. That's why the official fanservice with Ranka mostly involves Sheryl or Brera and very rarely Alto (unless it's a Triangle shot).
And what I'm saying is that they did everything possible to destroy a character they created just to make you love another. I was totally disgusted by that. Sorry, but I refuse to love Sheryl because creators felt she needed to be a saint.

And I doubt that they really want Ranka with herself - that's a Sheryl only thing to me. Now, with Brera, most fans only like them to be brother and sister (or friends) and very rarely do they hit romance. I mean, 90% of them are not into Ore no Imouto now; so I doubt that. But her with Sheryl, that's a given, since most of the time, two main female leads are always drawn together. I can name many anime fanbases where the fans pair the two female leads up in fanarts, even to the point of romance. But there are quite a lot of Alto/Ranka fanart out there, enough to make at least twelve dozen books, and thensome if we include fics and doujins; so it's not like they aren't popular, it's just that people don't really want to publish work about them only to be bashed. A lot of people out there want you to praise their work for how they wrote, drew, or portrayed it; not because you hate or dislike the couple, and nowadays, people don't give a shit about that anymore; so they'd rather keep their work to themselves. Hell, even I have ten amvs and twenty fanfics that I keep to myself without publishing because I'd rather have people tell me how my writing style has improved instead of wasting a review or comment telling me how they hated the couple.

People don't know what a back button is anymore either...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiNekoChan View Post
LMK - I'm just gonna assume you're being sarcastic... So we don't start a debate over my OWN words.
I was being sarcastic. For once someone noticed without me having to state it outwardly. Thank you, Michi.
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Old 2011-11-24, 02:42   Link #3444
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Originally Posted by MichiNekoChan View Post
LMK - I'm just gonna assume you're being sarcastic... So we don't start a debate over my OWN words.
I was going to say... Alto seems smitten with Sheryl since the beginning. The only thing that keeps him from spit it out is that is she a spy-is-she-not angsty subplot. And then the whole she's sucked into other space and seemly KIA (by this point is pretty clear Alto loves Sheryl. They had the Michel/Klan scene. It was identical: Sheryl dramatically pulling a heroic sacrifice and sucked into space then Alto grimly keeps the memento around his neck). This was before he remembers their first meeting, so it's just a cherry on top for the shippers of the pairing I guess. In fact, he confesses before knowing if she loves him.

It's easy to fall for Sheryl: charming, hot superstar who he hits off rather well?

Now Sheryl falling for someone like Alto and showing that cute side of hers sooner needed a push to cram many episodes development in two movies (and the time between them- three months or so?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
And I doubt that they really want Ranka with herself - that's a Sheryl only thing to me. Now, with Brera, most fans only like them to be brother and sister (or friends) and very rarely do they hit romance.
Uh, no it's supported as romantic. There's a stronger Brera/Ranka fanbase than Alto/Ranka one. It doesn't mean the last one is super unpopular but it dwarfed compared to Brera/Ranka or Sheryl/Alto. Wasn't an official Christmas' eve spread (a holiday which is mostly regarded as romantic and coupleish in Japan) featuring Sheryl+Alto and Brera+Ranka as if in a double date in an amusement park?

And of course, Kiss in the Galaxy. Mangaka supports and gives goodies to the fans of those two and Ranka/Sheryl (with nurse Sheryl and her patient Ranka ).

Yuri's a given.
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Last edited by Thess; 2011-11-24 at 02:52.
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Old 2011-11-24, 04:37   Link #3445
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Some of you guys seem to forget the huge bias japanese anime/manga/games have for incest. I mean, in an industry that gives us stuff like Yosuga no Sora, Aki Sora and lots of others, what is there to be surprised about?

Also, the triangle is over. Boo-fucking-hoo. Some people will never get over it, will they?
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Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2011-11-24 at 10:56. Reason: nvm. :)
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Old 2011-11-24, 04:46   Link #3446
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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
Uh, no it's supported as romantic. There's a stronger Brera/Ranka fanbase than Alto/Ranka one. It doesn't mean the last one is super unpopular but it dwarfed compared to Brera/Ranka or Sheryl/Alto. Wasn't an official Christmas' eve spread (a holiday which is mostly regarded as romantic and coupleish in Japan) featuring Sheryl+Alto and Brera+Ranka as if in a double date in an amusement park?
Don't forget, the fans made THIS, opposite to an Alto/Sheryl anthology. If that's not proof, I dunno what is.

@Beto, the way we always have to go back to the triangle...I don't think so.
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Old 2011-11-24, 05:00   Link #3447
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Then maybe they just don't give a fuck about you guys anymore (and bless them).
Oh, bless them, indeed. My mental health is so much better these days, for lack of all that inane Ranka blather. Well, almost all inane Ranka blater...
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Old 2011-11-24, 05:25   Link #3448
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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
I was going to say... Alto seems smitten with Sheryl since the beginning. The only thing that keeps him from spit it out is that is she a spy-is-she-not angsty subplot. And then the whole she's sucked into other space and seemly KIA (by this point is pretty clear Alto loves Sheryl. They had the Michel/Klan scene. It was identical: Sheryl dramatically pulling a heroic sacrifice and sucked into space then Alto grimly keeps the memento around his neck). This was before he remembers their first meeting, so it's just a cherry on top for the shippers of the pairing I guess. In fact, he confesses before knowing if she loves him.

It's easy to fall for Sheryl: charming, hot superstar who he hits off rather well?
She's a pain in the ass, and that goes without saying anymore.

You can say all you want about what you think of the scene, but Kawamori made it very clear that the first movie barely showed progression towards Alto and Sheryl being "smitten" with each other.

Quote:
Now Sheryl falling for someone like Alto and showing that cute side of hers sooner needed a push to cram many episodes development in two movies (and the time between them- three months or so?).
Sheryl was never cute in the series. That was a trait she gained from Ranka, which is why I really disliked her movie self; because Ranka is the moe character and now Sheryl wants to act like her because everything else wasn't enough? I'm sorry to say this, but Sheryl is not cute. Perhaps she could become "soft" but she shouldn't become "cute." It is not her character.

Quote:
Uh, no it's supported as romantic. There's a stronger Brera/Ranka fanbase than Alto/Ranka one. It doesn't mean the last one is super unpopular but it dwarfed compared to Brera/Ranka or Sheryl/Alto. Wasn't an official Christmas' eve spread (a holiday which is mostly regarded as romantic and coupleish in Japan) featuring Sheryl+Alto and Brera+Ranka as if in a double date in an amusement park?
I said most don't support the romantic side, and with good reason too. Brera and Ranka are brother and sister, and the most people do is maybe give hints or kisses. If you look at most Pixiv art just as a reference, most of the art there gives implications towards romance but doesn't go further. A kiss on the cheek, lips, or hug are most common.

Why are we discussing official art when your argument was about unofficial art?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Some of you guys seem to forget the huge bias japanese anime/manga/games have for incest. I mean, in an industry that gives us stuff like Yosuga no Sora, Aki Sora and lots of others, what is there to be surprised about?
I watched Yosuga no Sora and liked it, mostly because I could see how different the brother and sister were towards each other in a couple type manner.

But a lot of incest is mostly created by either people who have similar situations or ones who don't have a close net family and desire attention from their significant other (brother or sister). And the same works for parents too. It is rare for someone with a normal life (and normal relationship) to write incest and get it published. The mere thought disgusts people in that situation, so all of the shows you described above are from these people.

Macross Frontier doesn't relate.

Quote:
Also, the triangle is over. Boo-fucking-hoo. Some people will never get over it, will they?
Isn't that what keeps Macross alive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Oh, bless them, indeed. My mental health is so much better these days, for lack of all that inane Ranka blather. Well, almost all inane Ranka blater...
Hey, you guys are the ones who asked for their opinions. You wanted to know where they went, I gave an answer. The least you could do is say "oh, okay, that's fine then." But once again, you bash us AruRan fans even when they aren't here...

Really now, be civil.
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Old 2011-11-24, 07:37   Link #3449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
But a lot of incest is mostly created by either people who have similar situations or ones who don't have a close net family and desire attention from their significant other (brother or sister). And the same works for parents too. It is rare for someone with a normal life (and normal relationship) to write incest and get it published. The mere thought disgusts people in that situation, so all of the shows you described above are from these people.
Yeah, I see what you... Wait, WHAT? That's a sweeping, biased and prejudiced over-generalization if I ever saw one. Maybe we should drop this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Isn't that what keeps Macross alive?
I'd think it's the singing, the mechas and the rousing stories of romance amidst wars, but that's just me.
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Old 2011-11-24, 08:16   Link #3450
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Hey, you guys are the ones who asked for their opinions. You wanted to know where they went, I gave an answer. The least you could do is say "oh, okay, that's fine then." But once again, you bash us AruRan fans even when they aren't here...

Really now, be civil.
People here do love a good discussion, be it Arusherri, Aruran, Mecha pr0n and Kawamori, though I don't think this can be said for people who thinks a good 'debate' is pulling stuff out of their asses and expect to be humored.

I do think you're quite the interesting person when you're not doing that, and your passion for your ship rivals that of Harmony shippers, I'll give you that. But let's not indulge in victim mentality here, people aren't bashing your posts because it's Aruran slanted, but that you put so little thought and care into preparing your posts and, 90% of the time, follow it up with "What I mean is..." with more ramblings to come. Declaring stupid statements, hurling out emotionally charged shipping Livejournal-standard rants, and then being utterly unprepared to be challenged, are a few examples, if you're wondering.

You have some very interesting ideas, some ripe for interesting conversations, but then you overshadow them with your tendency to ramble whimsically and play the Word of God, and then it's hello, Facepalm.

So anyway. Aruran fans? We love Aruran fans. Heck, you know what? I bloody miss them. They're awesome people. Sir Dex-kun is the long lost seme with a taste for angsty, shoujo heroines like Tak. Mei19, with her infuriating bolded trolls rose up to near top of my list just for her love for JGS, bless her heart. We haven't seen Ani_D, but she does have a thing for Westlo before he moved onto justavisitor while cheating on Nat, because he has a thing for Strange People.

Some had gracefully conceded and moved on when Aruran ship lost, as seen earlier, and this makes them more of a champ than one who spent nine months frothing in rage when official franchise refuse to validate their fanfiction.

--

I am sad that my harem has graduated, but I will be in my hobo cave regardless, for I know they will return to me, the Lady Cheese one day. *sips tea*
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Old 2011-11-24, 08:19   Link #3451
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Yeah, I miss Dex.
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Old 2011-11-24, 08:55   Link #3452
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+1 for missing Dex


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Moving Michael's death to the second half of the series was definitely a good idea -it had more impact that way.
Oh yes. I was upset for a good few weeks after I first saw that episode. Especially since I'd effectively marathoned the series up til that point...

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Originally Posted by Darthtabby View Post
Also, is anyone else a bit disturbed by the idea that Hiroyuki Yoshino used to be a teacher given some of the series he's done creative work for? (Macross Frontier is rather tame compared to some of the projects he's been involved in.)
Personally, I just went..."oh, so that's why we had episode 8. And all the high-school hijinks in Code Geass..." But I've worked in a Japanese high school too...and I'm not too fussed, to be honest.

An interesting revelation from one of Yoshino's interviews (I can't quite remember which one - might be the one in the Complete Book, or perhaps the one in the fanbook, as those are the two I've skimmed recently...), however, reveals that Kawamori might be the one that everyone has to rein in. IIRC (don't quote me on this yet!), the advice/encouragement that Ohnogi apparently gave to Yoshino upon the latter's induction into Macross at the planning stage of Frontier was something like 'good luck reining Kawamori in'!

=====

p.s. To all of you whom this concerns: you're welcome . Although...whilst I do like being thanked, I definitely like fun discussions a fair bit more. You know, stuff that will help us avoid certain topics that have gone round and round in circles. Like...doesn't anyone want to talk about what the next major Macross project will be and what technological developments (if any) they might have to attain before Kawamori will set it in motion?

Of course, maybe that doesn't quite fit in this thread...
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Old 2011-11-24, 09:13   Link #3453
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Don't forget, the fans made THIS, opposite to an Alto/Sheryl anthology. If that's not proof, I dunno what is.
There are also quite a few Nanas doujinshis out there. Is that proof that Nanase is extremely popular...? Or just proof of the fact that there's a little something for everybody in the show?
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Old 2011-11-24, 10:00   Link #3454
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There are also quite a few Nanas doujinshis out there. Is that proof that Nanase is extremely popular...?
It's proof that she fulfilled her role as the busty doujinshi material. You're right, I guess there really is something for everybody in Frontier.
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Old 2011-11-24, 10:22   Link #3455
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LOL at your icon, vivi.
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Old 2011-11-24, 10:33   Link #3456
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It's proof that she fulfilled her role as the busty doujinshi material. You're right, I guess there really is something for everybody in Frontier.
Well...that wasn't really my point, but I think you're helping answer it. Clearly, there are a lot of Nanase doujinshi out there. Clearly, not everyone who likes Macross Frontier likes Nanase. Not even a majority of pople who like Frontier like Nanase.

And yet...as I said...there's a ton of doujinshi out there about her.

So if Raile's saying that some fan-made productions are proof of what the majority of fans want...well, I find that logic lacking.
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Old 2011-11-24, 11:11   Link #3457
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I'm just going to assume it was セクハラ
I couldn't help it Karice, you left yourself wide open

- Tak
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Old 2011-11-24, 11:25   Link #3458
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All I did was shatter LMK's fervent illusions that not a lot of fans support any incestuous subtext between Ranka and Brera, and that it's only looked at with platonic family love.

Is that so wrong?

(No, not to me.)
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Old 2011-11-24, 11:26   Link #3459
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Maybe fan-made productions aren't always representative of what the majority of the fanbase want and we as Alto/Sheryl shippers have just been blessed with quite the active circles.

But when doujin circles aren't drawing Alto/Ranka either because the couple isn't that appealing to them or they don't think it'll sell enough, and yet they take the time to draw a Brera/Ranka anthology (or yet another Brera/Ranka doujin), I think there is some truth in that statement.

At least I didn't see many, Alto/Ranka doujins pop out even after the second movie release.

Of course this is just an opinion as well, since I'm not there to run an actual observational study on the matter.

@ Magnus the untold truth about Alto's motivation!
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Old 2011-11-24, 11:37   Link #3460
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@ Magnus the untold truth about Alto's motivation!
I guess being loyal, dependable and so on is also what a typical hipster will be?
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