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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier: Sayonara no Tsubasa Movie Rating
Perfect 10 40 42.11%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 33 34.74%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 12.63%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 5.26%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 3.16%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 2.11%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-02-26, 07:09   Link #1021
raile
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No, magnuskn, I feel the same way. Kawamori's interview said "it has to have an ending". He felt forced to do an AruSherri ending. Which, to most fans, seemed to confuse them. After all, they forgot that Ranka was the main character (the one he built the series around) when they saw Sheryl. No offense to any of you. But they didn't realize that Kawamori was trying to somehow please the fans whilst also going with his original choice. Which is why 3/4 of both movies is AruRan.

Actually, the ending makes me cry. Honestly, even though it's not the ship I support... it's just sad that Sheryl is left alone like that, in a coma. And Alto... he's one of my favorite male characters. That was just BS.

Spoiler for Talkin' time:

I love the ending.
(In hindsight I guess this is what Kawamori meant when he said that a lot of fans will prolly be angry.)
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:09   Link #1022
magnuskn
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
I'm going to stop this ridiculous argument before it gains legs.

Spoiler:


TLDNR BleachOD and friends on that forum, he's done it before, deal with it.
Wes, I am myself saying it, or at least hypothesizing a bit about it. And I am quite far from BleachOD.

Because I am feeling pretty bitter about the predictability of it all. It seems Macross shows have gotten progressively worse endings over the years in terms of ending their romances.

SDFM: Good ending ( with caveat in that the mains disappeared a few years later )
Macross Plus: Good ending
Macross 7: Non sequitor ending
Macross Zero: Bittersweet ending
Macross Frontier TV: Mass facepalm ending ( although logical inference can get you beyond that )
Macross Frontier movie: Bittersweet ending

You'd think Kawamori would have gotten it out of his blood by now.

Eh, I am not so much bitter as simply disappointed, I guess. Although since I have long mentally separated the two continuities, even that is not as bad as I thought, I've cooled down considerably in the last hours. Still, disappointed in the predictability of it all.
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:12   Link #1023
Westlo
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Magnus it's just silly to say he was forced into this ending because you don't like it, he has done bittersweet endings before. I expected this from Ranka fans but not you, you don't have to like the ending, that's fine I personally despise how Umineko ended, but don't say stuff like that.

Can anyone confirm if Aquarion and Arjuna had bittersweet endings btw?
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:15   Link #1024
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
@Yot-chan
Spoiler for question regarding Ranka...:
Spoiler for Answers, kinda.:
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:17   Link #1025
Irisiel
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So...

Spoiler for *Yawn*:
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:17   Link #1026
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Hmmmm I think bittersweet is the best ending, too much happy ending is just boring...bitter ending is just horrible..

...Damn I think I already know the ending even though not clicking the spoiler...
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:18   Link #1027
LoveMeKags
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Well...

What I'm disappointed in:
Spoiler for seriously disappointed,:


I don't make stuff up. I'm honestly speaking as a person who understands TV production. There are a lot of things involved in it. Money is one. If one character rings in more money, that's who he/she will flaunt. This works for a LOT of anime, not just Macross.
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:18   Link #1028
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Spoiler for Maybe the reason for couples:
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:19   Link #1029
magnuskn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Magnus it's just silly to say he was forced into this ending because you don't like it, he has done bittersweet endings before. I expected this from Ranka fans but not you, you don't have to like the ending, that's fine I personally despise how Umineko ended, but don't say stuff like that.

Can anyone confirm if Aquarion and Arjuna had bittersweet endings btw?
Well, I am speaking from the Bitterman perspective of someone who hoped for a happy ending, so take my words with a grain of salt. I just like to point a pointy finger at someone at this moment. As I said, I am not that broken up about it as I thought I'd be, because for me the two continuities are separate. Heh, I wonder how the Ranka fans who like to conflate the two continuities will cope with this.

Yeah, I'm calming down faster than I'd thought. Phew. But still, it was soooooo predictable that we wouldn't get a true happy ending.

From that stems the question "Why not?" And the possible answers are:

a.) Kawamori doesn't do real happy endings anymore.
b.) He felt bullrushed into one direction and thus gave that fan-faction a half middle finger.
c.) He has a bet with his drinking buddies how many not-happy endings he can get away with.
d.) Fill in your own conspiracy theory.

Oh, and I think Aquarion had a bittersweet ending, yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irisiel View Post
So...

Spoiler for *Yawn*:
And again Irisiel sums up my thoughts better than I can.
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:20   Link #1030
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Magnus it's just silly to say he was forced into this ending because you don't like it, he has done bittersweet endings before. I expected this from Ranka fans but not you, you don't have to like the ending, that's fine I personally despise how Umineko ended, but don't say stuff like that.

Can anyone confirm if Aquarion and Arjuna had bittersweet endings btw?
Wait wait wait...I dislike this conflating of Macross with Escaflowne that's been going on here (not mentioned in your post, but which is something your post grew out of). When I pointed out that Kawamori didn't WRITE a single episode of Frontier, I was roundly criticized for that position, since (the argument went) as chief director, he had control over everything, and thus should take the blame.

But then, when I pointed out that he didn't direct Escaflowne, I was roundly criticized for that position, since (the argument went) the scriptwriter has great sway over what finally ends up on screen.

You can't have it both ways. If Kawamori is going to take the credit or blame for Escaflowne's ending, he shouldn't for Frontier, and vice-versa.
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:22   Link #1031
Westlo
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But option B really doesn't apply since Kawamori has done it time and time again, I mean just look at Irisiel's "Another Kawamori ending? Sigh" post lol.
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:22   Link #1032
moncikoma
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Can anyone confirm if Aquarion and Arjuna had bittersweet endings btw?
Not really remember ... But feels like a happy ending for both
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:22   Link #1033
magnuskn
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Wait wait wait...I dislike this conflating of Macross with Escaflowne that's been going on here (not mentioned in your post, but which is something your post grew out of). When I pointed out that Kawamori didn't WRITE a single episode of Frontier, I was roundly criticized for that position, since (the argument went) as chief director, he had control over everything, and thus should take the blame.

But then, when I pointed out that he didn't direct Escaflowne, I was roundly criticized for that position, since (the argument went) the scriptwriter has great sway over what finally ends up on screen.

You can't have it both ways. If Kawamori is going to take the credit or blame for Escaflowne's ending, he shouldn't for Frontier, and vice-versa.
Well, there's a reason why Kawamori is always associated with those shows. He seems to be the one who took the major decisions on both of them.
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:24   Link #1034
Natsuki Hyuga
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Originally Posted by moncikoma View Post
Not really remember ... But feels like a happy ending for both
Can't remember Arjuna frankly, but I suppose in Aquarion )

Spoiler:
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:25   Link #1035
raile
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
I don't make stuff up. I'm honestly speaking as a person who understands TV production. There are a lot of things involved in it. Money is one. If one character rings in more money, that's who he/she will flaunt. This works for a LOT of anime, not just Macross.
*CoughMinmaycough*
But she did not win the triangle? How interesting...


Spoiler for spoiler:
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:28   Link #1036
LoveMeKags
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Hey, I'm an AruRan fan too. You speak for the whole community when you say that. Me, I like characters separately, then couples. Even though it's AruSherri, I still support AruRan because I still think they are perfect together. (And it has nothing to do with me hating Sheryl, I actually like her voice and dress style, plus her character makes me smile sometimes.) Bashing on a whole community is kinda low...

As for bittersweet endings:
Spoiler for does it get any worse?:


But on a soft note: at least we can look forward to the amazing battle scenes, right? XD
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:28   Link #1037
Westlo
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yotchan some people hold more sway than their positions indicate, SHAFT's Shinbo would be one of them, Kawamori another. Besides I liked both Escaflowne and the ending for this, I'm not handing out any blame. I'm just saying that a certain group of people trying to indicate that a bittersweet ending is a form of protest from somebody are barking down the wrong tree.

Also Escaflowne was probably so good because Kazuki Akane's direction...

Quote:
Originally Posted by raile View Post
*CoughMinmaycough*
But she did not win the triangle? How interesting...
And not only once but twice did she lose, DYRL was an alternate telling that later got retconned into an inuniverse movie.
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:30   Link #1038
magnuskn
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
yotchan some people hold more sway than their positions indicate, SHAFT's Shinbo would be one of them, Kawamori another. Besides I liked both Escaflowne and the ending for this, I'm not handing out any blame. I'm just saying that a certain group of people trying to indicate that a bittersweet ending is a form of protest from somebody are barking down the wrong tree.
Well, then it's just the typical Kawamori ending. <points finger accusingly in a random direction, hoping it's where Japan is>


But, seriously for a second, LoveMeKags is right on the money on one particular aspect:

If we all know that the next series by Kawamori will probably end with another of those cliched bittersweet-tragic endings, doesn't that kill the motivation and enjoyment of it somewhat? I mean, probably not for the people who like that kind of story, but as for the rest?

I think I can say with certainty that the next project by Kawamori will be approached with much scepticism on my part.

Also: How many years again until the 30th anniversary of Macross?
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:30   Link #1039
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But option B really doesn't apply since Kawamori has done it time and time again, I mean just look at Irisiel's "Another Kawamori ending? Sigh" post lol.
Well, as far as I can tell, he was never criticized for that before Frontier. Before that, he was simply criticized for being a "hippy environmentalist." Nothing more.

He also got a lot of flak for Macross 7, which he had almost nothing to do with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Well, there's a reason why Kawamori is always associated with those shows. He seems to be the one who took the major decisions on both of them.
Hmm...I'd say you might be right about Frontier (except for the ending...Yoshino decided that, Kawamori let him do it even though he didn't like it at first), but about Escaflowne...? I've never seen any in-depth account of the making of Escaflowne. Where are you getting your info from?
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Old 2011-02-26, 07:33   Link #1040
Westlo
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Well, as far as I can tell, he was never criticized for that before Frontier. Before that, he was simply criticized for being a "hippy environmentalist." Nothing more.
might have something to do with zero and aquarion not exactly being hits with the western online fanbase, but i've seen several people before mention he does these types of endings and the facts are yes he does.

And yes his preachy bullshit from Arjuna and Aquarion (which was more lolz imo) was his major complaints before Frontier existed.
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