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Old 2010-10-13, 14:13   Link #181
ladholyman
Translator for Doremi
 
 
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A common mistake is setting deadlines. That never works.

And it'll take a miracle for us to finish Ojamajo Doremi by 2012.
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Old 2010-10-14, 04:37   Link #182
False Dawn
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Muxing in the wrong version of a script before release.
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Old 2010-10-14, 06:25   Link #183
Schneizel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by False Dawn View Post
Muxing in the wrong version of a script before release.
I read this as "relying on TheFluff is a common mistake".
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Old 2010-10-14, 06:51   Link #184
Mentar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneizel View Post
I read this as "relying on TheFluff is a common mistake".
Damn, I've been doing that for years and never realized it...
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Old 2010-10-15, 07:04   Link #185
TheFluff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneizel View Post
I read this as "relying on TheFluff is a common mistake".
sis, why you hatin
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2010-10-15, 07:59   Link #186
Quarkboy
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So, why haven't fansubs switched to 10-bit now that x264 can encode 10-bit depth h.264?

That'll fix a lot of banding issues with the proper filtering.

Sure, the lack of the ability to actually decode it might be a slight issue, but since when has that really been a concern?

I now proclaim that any 8-bit depth encodes are a mistake... In fact, an extremely common one!
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Old 2010-10-15, 14:31   Link #187
mastrboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
So, why haven't fansubs switched to 10-bit now that x264 can encode 10-bit depth h.264?

That'll fix a lot of banding issues with the proper filtering.

Sure, the lack of the ability to actually decode it might be a slight issue, but since when has that really been a concern?

I now proclaim that any 8-bit depth encodes are a mistake... In fact, an extremely common one!
Just waiting for a patch for ffdshow and ffmpeg that gives it the ability to decode 10bit
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Old 2010-10-16, 09:37   Link #188
TheFluff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastrboy View Post
Just waiting for a patch for ffdshow and ffmpeg that gives it the ability to decode 10bit
decoding is overrated, who needs that shit anyway
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2010-10-16, 20:42   Link #189
VincentRPG
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Amazing thread guys.
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Old 2010-10-17, 10:35   Link #190
Yumi`
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Originally Posted by VincentRPG View Post
Amazing thread guys.
Who let you back in, please get out.
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Old 2010-10-18, 03:19   Link #191
tenkenX6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladholyman View Post
A common mistake is setting deadlines. That never works.

And it'll take a miracle for us to finish Ojamajo Doremi by 2012.
I agree. I never did like specified deadlines. Sure, some people have more free time than others and etc, but for a lot of fansubbers who have a lot of real life obligations that allow them less time to sub, it just adds more stress to their already hectic lives. No point in subbing if you're not having fun, IMHO.
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Old 2010-10-18, 12:09   Link #192
Daiz
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I like setting "deadlines" (or more appropriately a goal timeframe like 24 hours in which I try to release in) for myself. It keeps me motivated to work on stuff, plus the more you manage to beat the goal time by, the better the satisfaction from doing it is.
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Old 2010-10-18, 16:42   Link #193
the.Merines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daiz View Post
I like setting "deadlines" (or more appropriately a goal timeframe like 24 hours in which I try to release in) for myself. It keeps me motivated to work on stuff, plus the more you manage to beat the goal time by, the better the satisfaction from doing it is.
There comes a time, though, when most folks would lose the such satisfaction and then set a shorter deadline. The cycle repeats until it's not physically possible to be faster and then there's no satisfaction anymore (or people stop caring). Once I got down to timing episodes of Gundam 00 and Casshern Sins in real time, there was nowhere else to improve, for example.
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Old 2010-10-22, 13:54   Link #194
Yumi`
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Tweak(). Still.
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Old 2010-10-24, 10:01   Link #195
meko
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These are not really mistakes by fansubbers but my own gripes with english subs:


1. subbing/translating the opening theme or ending theme (unless it's a kids show where the lyrics are already provided, why why why why are you ruining the opening/ending theme visuals with text?)
on that note: 1.1 karaoke subs (no blinking letters! Gah)
also: 1.2 credits for the fansub group overlapping the opening/ending credits.
* fansubbing used to be about expressing your love for the show. Nowadays some of it seems to be meant for attention-whoring: Let's remember why we are subbing in the first place. Subtitles are not about you: it is about the show you are captioning.

2. hard subs (I'd rather get a notepad document with no time stamps than hard subs -_-)

3. using -chan, -sama, -kun, -niichan, -sempai etc. (leave it out. We can already tell from the visuals/storyline that they're that kind of relationship. If we can't tell, it isn't important)

4. subs that take up a minute or two at the beginning or end to explain some obscure Japanese concept that has little bearing in the show. (What's wrong with including it in a separate jpg?)



oo then again, nowadays I'm watching everything raw, so I guess it isn't really important that these things change or not.


PS (first page): First year students are Freshmen. 3-year High schools have Freshmen, Juniors, and Seniors. A junior in an American 4 year high school has been in school about the same number of years as a freshman in a 3 year high school.
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Old 2010-10-24, 11:23   Link #196
Heibi
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by meko View Post
These are not really mistakes by fansubbers but my own gripes with english subs:

PS (first page): First year students are Freshmen. 3-year High schools have Freshmen, Juniors, and Seniors. A junior in an American 4 year high school has been in school about the same number of years as a freshman in a 3 year high school.
Sorry, wrong. In Japan they don't have the designation of Freshman and such. They use 1st Year, 2nd Year, 3rd Year. My translator, who happens to be from Japan, would tell you that. Plus the definition of a "Freshman" only works for a 4 year curriculum. You have to remember that Sophomore is the next step after Freshman. Freshman-Sophomore-Junior-Senior. Just because they are a 1st year high school student in Japan doesn't make them a freshman.

By your calculations that I quoted a Senior would only be in school for 11 years then. A senior is a 12th grader. A junior is an 11th grader. A 1st year(freshman in you argument) has actually only been in school for 10 years. A sophomore is a 10th grader, btw.

Remember, if you're going to through western school equivalents around when translating you have to be accurate. A freshman in western civilization is either a 9th grader or a 1st year student at college. In Japan 9th graders are still in junior high. As I explained in my earlier post in this thread, up until I graduated from high school in America 9th graders were in junior high but were still called freshman. When we went to high school the next year we were called sophomores(10th graders). They finally went to a 4 year high school in my home town after that. (Freshman-Sophomore-Junior-Senior)
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Old 2010-10-24, 14:50   Link #197
Sparvid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meko View Post
1. subbing/translating the opening theme or ending theme (unless it's a kids show where the lyrics are already provided, why why why why are you ruining the opening/ending theme visuals with text?)
on that note: 1.1 karaoke subs (no blinking letters! Gah)
I'm okay with songs translated with regular (optional) subtitles. The weirdest thing I've seen is karaoke subs in Japanese (as in, kanji and kana) Why?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by meko View Post
3. using -chan, -sama, -kun, -niichan, -sempai etc. (leave it out. We can already tell from the visuals/storyline that they're that kind of relationship. If we can't tell, it isn't important)
Depends. One on hand, I really don't like things like "onee-chan", when you can use "sis".
On the other, I saw a sub of K-On with all the honorifics removed, which resulted in people talking about "Ton", the turtle. The problem being that it's always referred to "Ton-chan" by everyone throughout the show.

So, I'd say that there no hard and fast rule that works every time...

One mistake which I fortunately don't come across too often is too literal translations. When the translator doesn't take a step back and think "Does this make sense for an English-speaking person to say in this situation or not?"
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Old 2010-10-24, 15:33   Link #198
OceanBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meko View Post
3. using -chan, -sama, -kun, -niichan, -sempai etc. (leave it out. We can already tell from the visuals/storyline that they're that kind of relationship. If we can't tell, it isn't important)
Anime isn't solely a visual medium. Ideally, what characters say or how they say it accentuates their characterization. If you're watching an anime and they're only able to characterize people using visuals, then the dialogue must be really bad or the show doesn't do a good job of using all of its tools, especially since honorifics and relations is an ingrained cultural concept in Japan.

Plus, what do you do if the show makes a big deal of leaving out the honorific?
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Old 2010-10-24, 17:59   Link #199
Plorkyeran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanBlue View Post
Plus, what do you do if the show makes a big deal of leaving out the honorific?
Then you're probably subbing a boring school drama that's exactly the same as 50 other shows so you might as well just drop it.
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Old 2010-10-24, 18:49   Link #200
blakbunnie27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparvid View Post
Depends. One on hand, I really don't like things like "onee-chan", when you can use "sis".
On the other, I saw a sub of K-On with all the honorifics removed, which resulted in people talking about "Ton", the turtle. The problem being that it's always referred to "Ton-chan" by everyone throughout the show.

So, I'd say that there no hard and fast rule that works every time...
Clearly, who ever took out the honorifics and didn't go further was an incompetent translator. As a matter of fact, in that specific case for the turtle, "ton-chan" was the full nickname used to refer to the turtle. If the translator wanted to ignore the use of honorifics, what they should have done is translate the nickname altogether into something like "Snappy" considering it's a quasi-Chinese snap turtle. Although changing the name into something that doesn't match the audio calls for a whole other issue from certain fags, I will do it every time. Besides, if people start complaining about how the subtitle text says something other than what they hear in the audio, then... what are they asking from us? Do they want the subtitles in Japanese? Get real; there's no iron law that says names can't be translated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanBlue View Post
[...] especially since honorifics and relations is an ingrained cultural concept in Japan.

Plus, what do you do if the show makes a big deal of leaving out the honorific?
Honorifics isn't exactly a cultural concept in Japan, it's more of a cultural concept in the language of Japanese. So when you stop using that language, all that is specific to it should also be halted from being used. It simply doesn't make sense to keep everything else translated except for the honorifics. If we follow the principle of "honorifics should be kept because it's an important part of the Japanese culture etc," bullshit reasoning, then we also have to start incorporating for the fact that there are several ways to speak respectively in Japanese (keigo): sonkeigo, kenjougo, teichougo, teineigo, and bikago.

By the popular "Japanese culture" logic, we'll also have to start appending stupidly unknown endings to sentences, prepend "o" to the start of words that have been "bika"ed, and have subtitles that make very little, if at all, sense. For example, "otou-san" is actually "o-tou-san" where the prepended "o" is the "bika"ed form of the word "tou-san"; this also applies to "okaa-san." Other examples are "okashi (snacks/candies)," "okane (money/cash)," "ohayou gozaimasu (good morning, and the "go" in the "gozaimasu" is also a form of "bika" honorifics)," and many other words that have the prepended "bika" forms of honorifics. Do people enjoy seeing "Excuse me, do you have some o-cash?" In fact, if we escalate this idiocy even more and preserve the different forms of "you" and different sentence endings that show different levels of respect, we'd get an even more ridiculous "translation": "Excuse me, do anata have some o-cash -masenka?"

"Keigo" is a form of adding "honorifics" to the nouns or verbs themselves to indirectly show respect to the ones we are talking to, so why do we ignore that when we preserve honorifics that are appended to names? The supporters' logic is rather inconsistent and every argument they pull out of their asses is nothing but a piece of crap that has no real credible foundation (i.e. we should stop preserving honorifics instead of acting like a know-it-all thinking "I know Japanese and the culture of Japan; we should keep honorifics, etc" when in reality, you know very little of what there is to be known and you are talking out of "knowledge" you gained out of anime and UNprofessional fansubs translated by know-it-alls like the viewers).

Let's all not be stupid and be bound to the "cultures" of the language of another, but instead, fully understand them, and incorporate them as our own. The show makes a big deal out of using or not using honorifics? Then be smart and translate some names into nicknames that show a more intimate relationship between the addressee and the speaker. There aren't any equivalent expressions in English that act like honorifics? Bullshit. You're just not thinking hard enough. You're not some computer program or online service that gets fed some words in one language and spits out the "translation" in another with words you don't know left as they are. You're a person with a fucking brain, so use it. If you don't know how to use it, then just kill yourself.

So well, it got kind of long, but the point I'm trying to make here is that honorifics that some people oh-so love and argue for them as "part of Japanese culture" are actually not part of the culture of Japan, as in the nation and the people, but the culture of Japanese, as in the language that is spoken widely in Japan. People's culture doesn't change from a simple trip overseas, and if you were born a Japanese, with Japanese (the people/nation) culture, then you stay that way wherever you are. If it were a part of the culture of Japan along with the people, Japanese people who come overseas will be addressing your names with appended honorifics (which we clearly don't). So everyone, here's a wake-up call: if you are for honorifics being kept in English, YOU ARE AN IDIOT.
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Last edited by blakbunnie27; 2010-10-24 at 19:51.
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