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View Poll Results: Claymore - Chapter 107 rating
Perfect 10 21 14.89%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 14 9.93%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 16 11.35%
7 out of 10 : Good 20 14.18%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 5.67%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 2.13%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 2.13%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 1.42%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.71%
1 out of 10 : Painful 53 37.59%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-09-28, 08:58   Link #1541
haegar
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Join Date: Jun 2009
I'm afraid it's still a wee bit early for that? dunno ... in any case, as hard as it is I'd rather wait another two days to get played by another fake handshake
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Old 2010-09-28, 09:03   Link #1542
MalakTawus
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Personally i wouldn't mind if in an hypothetical anime Miria's death would be done in a macabre way,afterall say what you want but IT IS a macabre scene.
Said that i wouldn't mind even a noiseless scene with only a sad background music,but the scene doesn't has to be too censored imo,'cause it HAS TO BE at least a bit disturbing to convey the right feelings to the watchers.
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Old 2010-09-28, 09:06   Link #1543
Nixl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revan5 View Post
I can only hope most of the sounds get toned way down as we experience an "Ave Maria" moment of loss. Otherwise it's just too macabre for me to stand watching. Its like watching someone you always had the highest hopes for utterly failing you at the most critical time. The point is we should not be concentrating upon the butchery that accompanied Miria's death.

We all know what happened. She got deceived by yoki manipulations, first getting cut a bit, then got a nasty slash, then got a sword through the gut, after which she made a big long speech while Rubel grimaced in pain (even Rubel couldn't watch), then held out her hand towards the twin she thought was Hilda. What followed was pure butchery as the claymores hacked her apart, limb from limb, her blood, guts, and limbs flying everywhere. Why anyone wants to hear the sound effects of that moment is beyond me. It makes my stomach queasy just thinking about it. I think as little TV time as possible on it would be appropriate.

It is otherwise too upsetting and horrific for mainstream TV, even in Japan. I hope they tone the horrific nature of her death down. Its just too upsetting for most otherwise, even if some people here find things like this and Elfen Lied entertaining. For my part they make me feel sick to my stomach. Why anyone would want to watch the most beautiful claymore of her generation get torn apart like some dude in Starship Troopers is beyond me. I'm sorry, but I don't get why so many are fascinated by Miria's butchered end. She did not deserve such a horrific end at Yagi's hands. A terrible ending for a great character who could've done so much more in my opinion.
I think it would either go with the horrible sounds or none at all to capture the moment.

I can understand the shock though, I felt it as well (hell I even like Shigurui and I never had that type of reaction). However, I would say it is still one of Claymore's strongest and most memorable moments, even more so than Teresa's death (just an opinion). The idea that someone as strong as Miria (with the shounen selfless-friend/leader trait) can still fail is good for the story. It created a sense of emotion that I never expected when I picked up the manga. Teresa did absolutely nothing for me, and so far (for me) Isley, Dauf, Claire and Miria's fate were far more touching to me than Teresa's. (Although T's death did reflect what happened to Claire).

Now that I think of it all the deaths recently have been especially painful to watch.
Beth had her head forced down her own throat and through the stomach
Claire cut in half (well not dead yet..)
Isley eaten alive
Riful eaten alive
Dauf losing every last shred of himself (even the part that loved Riful)
Rene possibly torn to pieces slowly
Raki is being infected slowly and is becoming an experiment
Miria...

Compared to Pieta arc, Elena, or Teresa where everyone died relatively quickly. There seems to be a lot of physical pain associated with these deaths. Yagi has been definitely cranking up the horror and depression in the last 20 chapters.

Last edited by Nixl; 2010-09-28 at 09:27.
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Old 2010-09-28, 11:19   Link #1544
Ryus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An4rchy99 View Post
ああ もおお!No luck in spoiler anyone?
This popped up last night on Biadu... It's Japanese on a Chinese site and on a thread listed as ch 108. So maybe it's a spoiler...

Spoiler for Possible 108 spoiler... I couldn't make heads or tails of it... sorry. Needs someone to translate it or at least tell us if it is a spoiler or not.:




Spoiler for Here is the bablefish translation:




Spoiler for Googles translation:


Spoiler for my speculation on it...:
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Last edited by Ryus; 2010-09-28 at 11:36.
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Old 2010-09-28, 12:14   Link #1545
An4rchy99
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Nice one Ryus. Anyways once we get a 108 thread up and running, more stuff will come up I guess.

Even if the spoilers are fake at first, some of them keep us from going from waiting

Spoiler for 108 talk:
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Old 2010-09-28, 12:32   Link #1546
MalakTawus
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I haven't understood a thing from that spoiler but i hope it's fake 'cause it says nothing about Claire,and i can't wait another month (AGAIN!!!) to see what happens between Prissy and CtD......
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Old 2010-09-28, 13:08   Link #1547
Gooral
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Location: The town where Copernicus was born.
Age: 29
Spoiler for 108:
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Old 2010-09-28, 13:30   Link #1548
haegar
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Spoiler for #108:
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Old 2010-09-28, 15:07   Link #1549
Shiek927
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Why am I the only one who seems surprised at the spoiler's excess use of Tobacco 0_0
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Old 2010-09-28, 15:15   Link #1550
Gooral
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Hmm... This part: 死にそう supposedly means almost dead/about to die.

Edit:
Spoiler for 108:
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Old 2010-09-28, 16:11   Link #1551
vilma13
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hmm chew on a toilet id rather not. lol.
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Old 2010-09-28, 16:32   Link #1552
Gooral
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About Berserk again:
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4...5695494040.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lihPs4BoDvo
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Old 2010-09-28, 16:33   Link #1553
Newhope
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Like I said before I'am almost 100% sure Miria is alive, we'll just have to see how he pulls it off.

I'll just be surprised if they isn't a scene change this month.

Last edited by Newhope; 2010-09-28 at 17:22.
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Old 2010-09-28, 17:19   Link #1554
MalakTawus
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Newhope,you really are an optimist,eh?
....but i really hope that Miria is alive too.......but better dead than experiment material for the org......
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Old 2010-09-28, 17:24   Link #1555
Newhope
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No the way that c**ppy chapter ended was just got I'am trolling you written across it .
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Old 2010-09-28, 19:32   Link #1556
yononaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
This popped up last night on Biadu... It's Japanese on a Chinese site and on a thread listed as ch 108. So maybe it's a spoiler...

Spoiler for Possible 108 spoiler... I couldn't make heads or tails of it... sorry. Needs someone to translate it or at least tell us if it is a spoiler or not.:
Yes, it's a spoiler for sure.

EDIT: Moved the translation to the 108 thread.

Last edited by yononaka; 2010-09-28 at 19:49. Reason: redirect to the 108 thread
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Old 2010-09-28, 19:55   Link #1557
FormerAbyssalone
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Spoiler for cm 108:
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Old 2010-09-29, 08:43   Link #1558
Ryuken
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But it is possible now don't you think so, it is possible that she managed to snap out of the trance due to pain or something else and released a good deal of that suppressed yoki instinctively to survive.
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Old 2011-04-19, 00:35   Link #1559
Gooral
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While I was digging through my older posts I've found this one (look at the date): http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...48#post1219948

It looks like my hallucination-manipulation youki technique was spot on .
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Old 2011-08-05, 11:22   Link #1560
Gooral
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OK, let's try to find some kind of a consensus besides "agree to disagree" and analyse this fight once and for all.



1) In pictures 1 and 2 one twin is using awakened form, the other is fighting without releasing youki at all. Miria fails to incapacitate the one that's not releasing. Also in picture 1 we see she struggles against even one twin (awakened one). Then for some reason the awakened twin doesn't attack but the first one takes over and uses only 30% of youki +awakened parts but the other isn't in shrimp form and attacks Miria using 0-10% of youki so this attack is weaker than previous one since in previous one was completely awakened.

2) Notice by the way that in picture 4 we see almost exact copy of their fight with Raki, the only difference being while Miria escaped, Raki blocked them. For some reason no one doubts they were just testing him while in Miria's case (where she had to escape) you're assuming that she was pwning them. I can partially agree to it except it's far from pwnage since twins are clearly holding back too. For them to not hold back one twin would have to be in his released state all the time or at least both of them would have to fight using no less than 30% youki and awakened limbs. But we don't see anything like it. It might be that twins weren't trained enough to pull it off but that would only show they have much room to grow and that they weren't that strong. Still even as children they were many times better than Miria was even after becoming a full-fledged Claymore so if she would be as strong as #1 already, the twins should grow to being much stronger than that.

3) At this point Miria was really close to leaking youki since the fight exhausted her (pic 5). On the other hand we don't see that twins made a sweat. Funny thing is, they've weakened their attacks yet again (the first weakening was when they've stopped using their awakened forms) attacking Miria while not using youki at all (picture 6). I don't know how you would interpret it but to me it's clear they've noticed Miria was holding back so they also held back. They've also noticed that Miria is exhausted while they weren't so they slowed down. And only then Miria thought that it would be easy to cut their heads off. Coincidence? Doubtful. Somehow she couldn't do a thing to them earlier and again was drawing the fight out.

4) Now she manages to cut left arm of one twin either because Raftela interfered (so basically helped her and gave her an advantage) or because she lost concentration. Now that I think about it I think it was the latter since she could parry every swing made by the other twin which would be impossible with screwed perception. Anyway, notice that the twin wasn't using even 10% of youki then so she managed to cut a left hand of a rookie warrior that wasn't half-awakened so he had access to less youki than Miria in unreleased state (proportionately), wow, how awesome is that . But once the other released youki Miria was cornered (pictures 7 and 8) and could only be on the defensive. Which again clearly shows they were holding back on her. Miria however was basically fighting as if she had 30% youki released 7 years ago (otherwise she couldn't do her phantom, at least not until Pieta).So the difference is huge and shows that what Miria did was nothing.

5) It seems that twins' berserk attack was just enough to make her leak youki and a while later Raftela marched in and it was over. I have to note one thing though. At this point I don't really see much of a difference between Hysteria's technique and Miria's. As picture 9 shows Miria was also doing her move with 1 mm margin. Instead of escaping always that one step further just to be safe she escaped just enough only. So how come she couldn't be so precise when she would charge at someone? Unless of course the twin was just that fast and it wouldn't matter.

6) In picture 10 we see another proof of Miria being overconfident. How come she didn't do such move earlier? Because when fighting two of them she couldn't (which she admitted herself). I.e. with two of them she wouldn't be able to chop their heads off. Seriously though, at that time she was sure she would be able to put one of the twins to sleep but earlier it was impossible? How come? It's not like twins were back to back and defended one another from all sides. If Miria would be so much faster as she claimed she should have been able to do it but the fact she didn't shows us she was being too generous to herself.

7) Maybe I should have asked it at the start, but why she didn't release youki at this point is beyond me. If her fight with Hysteria is any indication she knew she can go faster but instead she risked being injured or killed and exhausted herself... At this point she had nothing to lose for all she knew. The same stupid mistake she made with Riguald, that's why I was sure that releasing youki wouldn't increase the speed of her phantom. But it turns out it's not true (probably, we need to see her fight with Hysteria first) and that Miria was an idiot not one time but two times (although with Riguald she was a complete retard as it turns out).

8) We know about twins at least two things. One - that they're not idiots. They were leading the way and helping other Claymores escape very efficiently as Kinematics has pointed out, even though clearly they've never done something like that before so they weren't using any manuals but had to think for themselves. And two - they're compassionate. The first thing tells us that since they did not know about Raftela (no Claymore knew) and yet they were not going all out they didn't consider Miria as much of a threat. The second thing tells us that because they're compassionate they didn't want to harm a Claymore that didn't harm Claymores.

Granted there were two of them so the fight wasn't fair but that's not what we're arguing about. You're claiming that what Miria thought (that she could easily chop their heads off) was true but the facts show something different. It's possible that it was Yagi's intent to show Miria's superiority but unfortunately because of the reasons I've mentioned, he failed (assuming he really did try to do it). When it comes to arguments you only have "Miria said it herself so it must be true" while you're disregarding the facts at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
this is the same situation as Teresa vs Priscilla just without a true awakening and mention of latent power. Which everyone agrees teresa was way stronger at that moment. (...)
Eh, no. It's completely different since in Teresa's case she had more than words. She had actually put Priscilla down several times and could have killed them or temporarily put them to sleep if she wanted to. Miria on the other hand managed only to cut a hand off, that was her whole achievement in this fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haegar View Post
Spoiler for OT, reply to double friedman, goral, ryus, concerning miria in 107:
Couldn't you make a more far-fetched theory haegar? There is nothing that would support that. In 106th chapter all Miria managed to do was escape and it looked like she was a toast. Then in the next one we read that it was easy-peasy for her to cut their heads off, lol. Besides her words you have nothing.

In short, there is no way it's as you say haegar. The entrance of the twins was in chapter 106th there is no doubt about it. There was no time-line screw up. "Twins, huh" - said Miria. And then we see one of them awakening. The fact is later they've powered down. We have obvious continuation of that fight in 107th chapter where they're still using their awakened forms and then powering down. No matter the reason they were from far from going all out so at best I could admit that Miria would be able to kill one of the twins (one since the other would instantly powered up as we've seen, picture 7) if she didn't even start releasing youki. But that's almost nothing.

Last edited by Gooral; 2011-08-05 at 12:48.
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