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Old 2006-04-30, 08:17   Link #41
Corn
Gotta kill 'em all!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Denmark
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamiko_san
Eh..isn't this the reason most people play MMOs? Get best gear possible > PvP > Get newest best gear possible > PvP etc etc..WoW isn't the first game to do this you know.
Im well aware of this mate, but I think it's a shallow route it has taken. It was really passed down from EQs mantra.
More like a second job, than a game.


If you think about WoW.

You actually spent 50% of your time on down time; traveling, repairing your gear, running fed ex missions, griffon runs, doing repetitive stuff.

and the rest of the time you fight against an incompetent AI that has no brains. The same AI that works through the entire game. it does not matter if you fight against a lvl 5 defias gang member or the most evil of monsters in BWL. The only difference is that the monsters in BWL has more hit points, and does more damage. they are just as bad.

games is really about beating obsticals and get on to next stage. in the old days, with Muds(pre mmo games) and arcade games, we had games that took skill and rewarded your efforts.
in games like WoW its just about time. so it means that little 13 year old johnny who plays 15 hours a day will dominate the game with his phawt loot even if he is incompetent and really bad at the basic mechanics.


What I liked about games like AC, EVE, SWG, UO and so on, was that they had an empthy on community and stuff you wouldnt be able to find in other games, like player housing, a dynamic a real economy, social events and so on.

WoW has stripped all does away and created a very linear game. It does not matter what quests your doing - in 5 minutes the monsters you just killed will respawn. In that sense the game has no uniqe achivements or purpose, though you can't really denie how well done the quest system is, besides from the lack of much needed voice acting, some places.

it's really the point I guess. The wow servers are unstable and bad, so blizzard puts people in these mini instanced areas like battlegrounds. servers can't hold many players, which is why there are 600-700 servers right now. Games like Ragnarok Online has had over 18 million people playing, and L2 close to 5 million, with many more players on a single server. hell, EVE can take 10K on at once.

I think many old school MMOGers problem with WoW is that they have seen wow been done before much better, and when they look at WoW they only see yet another fantasy MMO, 100% like the rest, with another clichee storyline that does not put the player in, with fedex and useless "kill this and collect that quests", and just doing the same stuff over and over again.

controls, graphics and music is absolutely outstanding though. so is the user created interface. And it's incredible easy. It explains why so many people were instantly able to jump into the game.

I promise though... I know for certain, that just like with EQ - In 4-5 years WoW players who wasted so much time on raid gear and stuff like that will regret the time they have used on it. It will happen.


WoW is a good game though, but it's hard to watch from an objective view and look how everyone claims it to be the best when there are so many others uniqe offerings out there with much better ideas. games that manages to take risks and not throw the genre back 10 years. Everything UO did has gone to waste. the new "true MMORPGs" are diablo 2 clones with a monthly fee and more required waste of time


I dont play any MMOG at a time. I play guild wars factions though but thats not a MMO and shouldnt be compared as such. I don't know if I will ever play any others. Age of Conan looks good, but I don't think Funcom will be able to deliver(remember anarchy online?)!

That's really the problem. The only MMORPGS that work are these very simple and shallow games like EQ and WoW. Games that really try to change the ball rules and innovative like SWG and Age of Conan are just to ambitious for their own good. It's incredible sad to see that a genre that needed attention, and managed to get it - Got itself killed.

the old audience that first was attracted to MMOs - to role playing, the social stuff, free world concept and "play and choose your skills you want to use" theory is all gone and replaced by WoWs mantra.

And it's stupid because we all know that WoW drags out. It only takes 1000-2000 hours to be the best because blizzards want you to play as long and much as possible so they can get more money from your monthly fee, before you finally realise "omg what am I doing. I should go out hang out with my friends or family instead of raiding of stupid pixel objects"! and quit.
Honor system, the raiding idea. Everything they talked about how hardcore gamers would not have a better chance of winning in the competitive game over casual gamers was lies. the game was designed with hardcore gamers in mind.


I dont think people who play WoW is ignorant, but I do feel that ALL consumers have a responsibility to choose the right stuff. thats simply not the case. about 50% of the 6 million wow players today probably have never played another mmo. they just bought it because it said blizzard and warcraft on the box, and suddenly thinks that it was blizz that created the MMOG marked.

meh. That's how I see it at least Allot of frustration. But thats usually how it is... the mainstream gamers screw over the dedicated gamers. this is why bad games like 50 cent: bulletproof easily sells a million in a month.

-Corn
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Old 2006-04-30, 08:55   Link #42
Thyrz
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Exactly, Corn. I couldn't have said it better ever.
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Old 2006-04-30, 23:19   Link #43
Soconfused
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corn
Im well aware of this mate, but I think it's a shallow route it has taken. It was really passed down from EQs mantra.
More like a second job, than a game.


If you think about WoW.

You actually spent 50% of your time on down time; traveling, repairing your gear, running fed ex missions, griffon runs, doing repetitive stuff.

and the rest of the time you fight against an incompetent AI that has no brains. The same AI that works through the entire game. it does not matter if you fight against a lvl 5 defias gang member or the most evil of monsters in BWL. The only difference is that the monsters in BWL has more hit points, and does more damage. they are just as bad.

games is really about beating obsticals and get on to next stage. in the old days, with Muds(pre mmo games) and arcade games, we had games that took skill and rewarded your efforts.
in games like WoW its just about time. so it means that little 13 year old johnny who plays 15 hours a day will dominate the game with his phawt loot even if he is incompetent and really bad at the basic mechanics.


What I liked about games like AC, EVE, SWG, UO and so on, was that they had an empthy on community and stuff you wouldnt be able to find in other games, like player housing, a dynamic a real economy, social events and so on.

WoW has stripped all does away and created a very linear game. It does not matter what quests your doing - in 5 minutes the monsters you just killed will respawn. In that sense the game has no uniqe achivements or purpose, though you can't really denie how well done the quest system is, besides from the lack of much needed voice acting, some places.

it's really the point I guess. The wow servers are unstable and bad, so blizzard puts people in these mini instanced areas like battlegrounds. servers can't hold many players, which is why there are 600-700 servers right now. Games like Ragnarok Online has had over 18 million people playing, and L2 close to 5 million, with many more players on a single server. hell, EVE can take 10K on at once.

I think many old school MMOGers problem with WoW is that they have seen wow been done before much better, and when they look at WoW they only see yet another fantasy MMO, 100% like the rest, with another clichee storyline that does not put the player in, with fedex and useless "kill this and collect that quests", and just doing the same stuff over and over again.

controls, graphics and music is absolutely outstanding though. so is the user created interface. And it's incredible easy. It explains why so many people were instantly able to jump into the game.

I promise though... I know for certain, that just like with EQ - In 4-5 years WoW players who wasted so much time on raid gear and stuff like that will regret the time they have used on it. It will happen.


WoW is a good game though, but it's hard to watch from an objective view and look how everyone claims it to be the best when there are so many others uniqe offerings out there with much better ideas. games that manages to take risks and not throw the genre back 10 years. Everything UO did has gone to waste. the new "true MMORPGs" are diablo 2 clones with a monthly fee and more required waste of time


I dont play any MMOG at a time. I play guild wars factions though but thats not a MMO and shouldnt be compared as such. I don't know if I will ever play any others. Age of Conan looks good, but I don't think Funcom will be able to deliver(remember anarchy online?)!

That's really the problem. The only MMORPGS that work are these very simple and shallow games like EQ and WoW. Games that really try to change the ball rules and innovative like SWG and Age of Conan are just to ambitious for their own good. It's incredible sad to see that a genre that needed attention, and managed to get it - Got itself killed.

the old audience that first was attracted to MMOs - to role playing, the social stuff, free world concept and "play and choose your skills you want to use" theory is all gone and replaced by WoWs mantra.

And it's stupid because we all know that WoW drags out. It only takes 1000-2000 hours to be the best because blizzards want you to play as long and much as possible so they can get more money from your monthly fee, before you finally realise "omg what am I doing. I should go out hang out with my friends or family instead of raiding of stupid pixel objects"! and quit.
Honor system, the raiding idea. Everything they talked about how hardcore gamers would not have a better chance of winning in the competitive game over casual gamers was lies. the game was designed with hardcore gamers in mind.


I dont think people who play WoW is ignorant, but I do feel that ALL consumers have a responsibility to choose the right stuff. thats simply not the case. about 50% of the 6 million wow players today probably have never played another mmo. they just bought it because it said blizzard and warcraft on the box, and suddenly thinks that it was blizz that created the MMOG marked.

meh. That's how I see it at least Allot of frustration. But thats usually how it is... the mainstream gamers screw over the dedicated gamers. this is why bad games like 50 cent: bulletproof easily sells a million in a month.

-Corn

Your "rant" has been said countless times, and yet, still no one cares. You can bash WoW all you want, it will still make billions of dollars and get hundreds, thousands of new players a day.

I play WoW, it's my first MMO. I bought WoW because I loved WC 2 and 3 and all it's characters. Of course, I find it a chore at times, but I still love it. And your right, I probably won't play another MMO after WoW.
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Old 2006-05-01, 02:52   Link #44
Aidan
Am I bad? Yes... Very X(
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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MMORGs are just the first form of cyber drugs, addiction equals big bucks.

That's just the way I look at it though.
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Old 2006-05-01, 11:49   Link #45
FrostLich
Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
WoW did not take the genre back, it took it light years ahead. The reason why WoW is popular is not because they did anything innovative gameplay wise. It was because they broke the norm and targeted casual players. A completely untapped market for mmorpgs. Yes, they screwed it up at lvl 60 by releasing more hardcore patches over casual. However, WoW will set the curve and start new mmorpgs that will also target casual players. They will do it better and follow through with their plan by releasing much more casual content than hardcore content. This is ultimately where WoW will fail unless they start making casual content now. The paradox to this is that despite the obvious success rate, it is hard to constantly pump out casual content that is finished within a day.
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Old 2006-05-01, 12:44   Link #46
Corn
Gotta kill 'em all!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soconfused
Your "rant" has been said countless times, and yet, still no one cares. You can bash WoW all you want, it will still make billions of dollars and get hundreds, thousands of new players a day.

I play WoW, it's my first MMO. I bought WoW because I loved WC 2 and 3 and all it's characters. Of course, I find it a chore at times, but I still love it. And your right, I probably won't play another MMO after WoW.
Obviously you care, or you wouldn't have bothered replying to my post.

It's fine. You enjoy it, good for you. Im happy for you. Rock on. And no, my arguments are not new, but they are undeniably valid. I know allot of people who agrees with everything I typed in my previous post, but who still acknowledge that they don't have anything better to do or just play WoW because that's what their friends play. But that's how it is. A combination of ignorance and subjective theories about what fun is.
It's really not different with myself when it comes to music or movies. I listen to stuff mostly what I hear in the radio and I see the movies I see in trailers. Im sure that the music and movies I like will get totally ripped apart by more knowledgeable people who will tell me what truly great music and movies are. But that's how I see it
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Old 2006-05-01, 13:10   Link #47
Soconfused
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Buts that's the problem, who's to say what movie/Music/MMORPG is good or not? if you like it, you play it. Why do you care what other people like? People aren't "ignorant" because they play WoW and find it fun. Not everyones looking that deep into it, thinking it's setting the genre back years. There playing it having fun with there friends.
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Old 2006-05-01, 15:11   Link #48
Jaden
Witch of Betrayal
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Age: 27
I've played FF11, Guild Wars, D&D Online beta and a short trial of SWG, but WoW absolutely owns all of these. It's not just the Blizzard and Warcraft in the name, although those have without doubt affected sales.
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Old 2006-05-01, 18:20   Link #49
hamiko_san
September Jellyfish
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
10 things more, you never know.
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Last edited by hamiko_san; 2007-12-25 at 16:45.
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Old 2006-05-02, 05:48   Link #50
kaply
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
I do think there are some things that WoW did right. The instanced dungeons are really great if you're able to take the time to pay attention to the story and what you find in there. Sadly, the way the game is implemented people like to just steam roll over the content in these instances and just get the loot. Areas like shadowfang keep really had nice scripted events that played out a story. What I wish they would have done was to make the zones challenging enough for the people. Like the zones should have been level/party member restricted. When I was playing WoW, I was in a perm-party with 2 other players and we usually completed the instances 2 levels below the final boss level. It was very fun coordinating a party that way and to come up with ways to complete the instances.
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Old 2006-06-11, 04:09   Link #51
Shini_GamI
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I finally got my hands off world of warcraft, although it was hard, but i managed to stop playing wow lol.... its like quitting smoking haha...
but i want to have some memories of the game, so anyone know if there is soundtracks for the battlegrounds(Arathi Basin especially) cause i liked the music at the background for it haha
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Old 2006-06-15, 01:50   Link #52
Dis
魔王
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Heaven & Hell
Age: 31
WoW Sucks...
At Lv 60...
You need to get into an endgame raiding Guild...
After you got into it...
WoW is now officially a Part Time Job...

Monday Night - ZG20 Part 1
Tuesday Night - ZG20 Part 2
Wednesday Night - Onyxia
Thursday Night - AQ20 Part 1
Friday Night - AQ 20 Part 2
Saturday - MC Part 1
Sunday - MC Part 2

After that it's MC/BWL/AQ40 and now with 1.11 Nax as well..

It's a never ending game driven by greed to get Epics to WTF pwned people in PvP.

It's a part time job doing the same endgame instance again and again for your Epic Set and so on...
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Old 2006-06-16, 04:50   Link #53
Jazzrat
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Join Date: Jun 2004
The above poster pretty much nailed down the core.

I played WoW since day 1 all the way up till they released BWL shortly. The game was really fun up till MC. Then, it's just too time consuming and the rewards arent that satisfying.

PvP element was like deathmatch, no great siege or relic raids like what i had in DAoC old days. It was a good (relatively polished) MMO but in the end, the community in WoW just doesnt gripped me as feverishly as DAoC had (eventho technically DAoC was a lot weaker game).

There were no call to arms to defend your faction, no alliance among big guilds to repel common enemies. Just a threadmill and a carrot.

If anyone wanna try WoW, dont bother to go past MC, because you need to quit your job and install a toilet underneath ur seat and live on deliveries to have the best gears (for a month or two) or the highest PvP rank (for a few week before you lose it).
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Old 2006-08-21, 12:32   Link #54
Itachikun
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Does anyone play the European version? I would like to meet some people for Veknilash. human too!!

Meet up with people using this thread
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Old 2006-08-22, 09:54   Link #55
StarTouch
Yandere for win :O
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Singapore
I think people are bashing the end-game raiding life-style a bit too much. As a raider, I raid 4-5 times a week (mostly 5 times a week and I can push for 6 for the lower-end instances such as AQ20 on official guild off-days). Did I sacrifice anything? Perhaps an hour or two of sleep and that's about it.

I'm a student. Yes, I do cut classes here and there but nothing too major and my grades are stable. On top of that, I give some English tuition to one of my younger cousins. I eat 3 meals a day. I go out with friends. The myth of "locking one's self up in a room to raid" is totally unfounded and is built purely on theorycraft. Evidence? You're looking at it ^_^

My guild is currently working on Naxxramas. I play a level 60 druid, full tier 2 with miscellaneous items from Naxxramas + AQ40. I am the first and only (thus far) druid on my server to break +1000 healing from equipment. No, this isn't to "show off" but what I would like to point out is that I don't raid to get gear to "wtfpwn" people in PvP. I sure as hell can run flags in WSG or defend nodes in AB but I definitely don't do that with my raiding gear. I actually use blue PvP set gear + some miscellaneous non-healing (a.k.a non-raiding built) epics. The reason I get gear is to better equip my character to push upcoming challenges / instances in the future. Yes, it's a never-ending cycle. I know that. So why continue? I choose to play alongside the friends I made and to push the limits of my character and playing skill to the max. Did I mention I have a social real-life? Yea.

However, I do sympathise with the non-raiders. They've been stuck with the same old instances over and over again. The way I see it...when WoW was first released, there was only ONE end-game instance. And that was the Molten Core (or Molten BORE which my guild dubs it). Non-raiders had quite a good spread of instances while raiders had only ONE instance. Over time, Onyxia + BWL + AQ40 + Naxxramas were added to stack up the variety of instances offered to raiders. However, non-raiders only got one new instance...and that was Dire Maul. If one thinks about it, the number of non-raider instances and raider instances are about equivalent at this point of time.

Still, I would like to see Blizzard whip up more 5-10 man instances for the non-raiders (gives me something to pass my time as well on off-days). Oh well...I guess the expansion will quench the non-raiders' thirst.
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Old 2006-09-20, 16:19   Link #56
Shini_GamI
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I have no intention to bring this topic alive again, but this might interests you mmorpg citizens like me...
Here is the statistic

WoW already took over half of the pie chart...
Now this game sure is addictive...
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Old 2006-09-24, 23:41   Link #57
jtrog
Senior Member
 
 
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Age: 51
Im adding to Shini_GamI s post above a bit. Sept 24,2006.

Last week season ending shows for StarGate Atlantis... They had the crew that returned to earth do a little segment of stealing data and a data card from a guy in a room and one of the ploys was
"IM a big Warcraft fan too" " the lead lady had to fake her way through telling him what kind of char she had". It was really really funny. To think, that far in the future and WoW is still going on....

(I was in Everquest1 when WoW came out and saw population drop to 1/10th what it was from all going to WoW. I saw it from a different standpoint when my server in eq1 died from it.)
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Old 2006-11-21, 14:24   Link #58
Ero-Sannin
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i quit wow... why ? because if u want to get nice items you have to be a no lifer
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Old 2006-11-22, 19:27   Link #59
Skyfall
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You chose a bad time to quit With the upcoming PvP system you will be able to get nice gear at your own pace.
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Old 2006-11-22, 20:31   Link #60
NaOH
火影級 [h o k a g e LvL]
 
 
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this game gets too repetitive... even pvp becomes boring after a long grind. It kinda pisses me off heavely you gotta depend on good guilds to come out on top with the nicest gears... the sad thing is that guilds that do well are full of a$$hats and greedy mofos that do anything to eliminate their obsticles... and the guilds that are nice to hang out with.. usually sux in terms of progression... i guess to do good you gotta become an ass?
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