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Old 2004-03-20, 05:41   Link #1
mdjasrie
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Join Date: Feb 2004
What is NAT? Can someone explain?

What is this NAT that ive been hearing about. some torrents from certain sites, the downloads are slow and it is due to NAT. What is that? Is there anway to disable it?
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Old 2004-03-20, 06:02   Link #2
TronDD
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Network Address Translation. A NAT server is a connection between a local network and the internet. The NAT server has an external IP that it gets from an ISP. It's a "real" IP that other people on the internet can connected to. The computers on the local network have internal IPs that can't be seen from the internet. What a machine on the local network requests data (say you go to a web page) it remembers the internal IP that is requesting and where it is requesting it from (the IP of the web site). When data comes into the NAT server from the internet it checks the origin and sees if an internal machine requested the data. If so, it sends it to that machine.

This means that if data comes to the NAT server from the internet that no one requested, it ignores it. It has no other choice. When your computer is behaind a NAT server, and the computer you want to to talk to is behind one, also, they won't be able to communicate because the listener's NAT server won't know where to send the data it gets from your computer. So if your computer requests a bittorrent packet from another computer behind a NAT, the request will be dropped by their NAT. You will have slower download speeds because you'll have fewer peers to can connect to.

The solution is port mapping. You tell the NAT server that "any data that comes to this port, send to this internal IP." However, the other guy has to map the ports. It's his NAT server that's dropping your requests.

Do you have a NAT server or other firewall (NAT isn't really the problem, firewalling is, it just happens that firewalling is a side effect of NAT)?
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Old 2004-03-21, 12:10   Link #3
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Um.... I went on this weird site and it said that I got NAT. So, I have some n00bish questions to ask.

Where did it come from and why do I have it and some ppl don't?

How do I disable it or make it not interfere with my other work?

If you could answer these, it' would be great, thanks!
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Old 2004-03-21, 13:29   Link #4
thevoman
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You don't want to disable NAT. Like TronDD said, it's not the NAT that makes your connection slow. It's the firewall. Port-mapping or port-forwarding is the answer (ports 6881-6889).

But the way you fix it differs from network setup to network setup. If you know the model of the NAT box then we could probably tell you. The NAT box usually sits between the cable modem and the hub.

[modem]---->[NAT]-----> [hub]

Unless you have one of those wierd modems that does both or ALL of it together. Just give us the make/model of all the devices. We'll figure it out.
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Old 2004-03-21, 14:00   Link #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thevoman
You don't want to disable NAT. Like TronDD said, it's not the NAT that makes your connection slow. It's the firewall. Port-mapping or port-forwarding is the answer (ports 6881-6889).

But the way you fix it differs from network setup to network setup. If you know the model of the NAT box then we could probably tell you. The NAT box usually sits between the cable modem and the hub.

[modem]---->[NAT]-----> [hub]

Unless you have one of those wierd modems that does both or ALL of it together. Just give us the make/model of all the devices. We'll figure it out.
... I'm completly lost... Let me get this straight: to fix my problem, I need to do something called "port-mapping or port-fowarding", right? I'll just assume that I'm right. The way to do this is different for every person. You say I need to find the model of my NAT box... I have no idea what a NAT box is... All I have is my Computer Hardrive and Moniter, a printer, this one Motorola Cable Modem, and this one Battery Back-up thing. So, yeah, as you can see, I'm very new to this sort of stuff and I'm completely lost.
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Old 2004-03-21, 14:23   Link #6
xris
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Originally Posted by Link
this one Motorola Cable Modem
It's this area in which people are interested. Describe the Motorola Cable Modem in more detail. I assume it's an external device and plugs into your computer and a phone line (or some such connection) plugs into it. Something like this

Phone line / Cable connection -> Motorola Cable Modem -> Your computer

Is there a make or model number on the Motorola device?

Is there anything else you can see connected in this line? Where does the phone line / cable connection go to? What sort of environment are you in? Is it your house, dorms, work? Knowing this may help us work out the configuration.

I'm not at all convinced you actually have a NAT Just because some "weird site" claimed you had a NAT doesn't guarantee you actually have one. It could be wrong after all.
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Old 2004-03-21, 15:04   Link #7
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Hmmm

I believe I have NAT. I went on this site and I'm quite convinced.

Anyway, this cable modem of mine. It says on the back : Motorola SURFboard SB5100. You can see it here.

Also, it has three cords coming out of the back. One is to the Battery Backup(acts like an electric outlet), the other is to the "cable outlet" in the wall, and the last one is connected to the computer hardrive with an ethernet cord. Oh, and, I'm at my house.
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Old 2004-03-21, 17:47   Link #8
warnold
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Ok the specs of the modem says "Supports up to 32 users" so It *must* have NAT. (Otherwise it can't support multiple internal machines).

So you need to find the documentation for that modem, and lookup how to forward the appropriate ports. Unfortunatly my online searching hasn't turned up a copy of the documentation, so I can't just tell you what to do. Sorry.

--
-billy-
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Old 2004-03-21, 18:07   Link #9
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Thanks for your help in confirming it anyways. So, I just need to find the manual for that thing right?
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Old 2004-03-21, 18:45   Link #10
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Well, I found this on the "installation help" CD but as you know, I'm quite a n00b at computers so...

Man, wth? I can't post attachments.... This isn't cool....
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Old 2004-03-21, 18:54   Link #11
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Uhh... Now I can't even delete my own posts for some odd reason... Sorry for the double/triple post.

Anyway, I've found the readme thing. It may be a little slow to load but, here it is.

I think what I need to do is something around page 21. And I'm using Windows XP.
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Old 2004-03-21, 19:23   Link #12
warnold
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Unfortunatly that pdf mentions *none* of the necessary information. However it does mention one thing that makes me think that I may have been wrong about NAT being setup by default...

Please do the following:
Start->run->cmd
"ipconfig"
cut-and-paste the output so we can see it. Hopefully it'll give us (some of) the info we need.

--
-billy-
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Old 2004-03-21, 19:23   Link #13
TronDD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Link
I think what I need to do is something around page 21. And I'm using Windows XP.
Nope. You shouldn't need to change anything on your machine. The configuration needs to be done on the cable modem. I don't see insturctions there for waht you need to do.

I assume the IP on your PC is 192.168.x.x

Do this to see:

Start->Run
type in "cmd" and hit "ok"
At the C:\> prompt, type: ipconfig
hit enter and see what it says after "IP Address"

Also see what is says for "Default Gateway". It should be another 192.168.x.x IP and that is the IP of your cable modem. You should be able to put that into a web browser and connect to it (It might not be on port 80, though, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it)
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Old 2004-03-21, 19:29   Link #14
Laxe
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Ok, well I took a look at the manual and what you firstly want to do is go to page 38 and find out your 'i.p. address'. This will be your internal ip which you need to tell your modem to send data packets too via the ports used by BT.

HOW you do that with this model I don't know I'm afraid. Most Routers or Modems have a special ip address that lets you access the actual config of the device and set the port-forwarding/virtual server/port mapping (they're all the same really).

If you can find that (don't tell us the ip but look at it yourself) then give us a run-down of options and we'll go from there.
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Old 2004-03-21, 20:04   Link #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warnold
Unfortunatly that pdf mentions *none* of the necessary information. However it does mention one thing that makes me think that I may have been wrong about NAT being setup by default...

Please do the following:
Start->run->cmd
"ipconfig"
cut-and-paste the output so we can see it. Hopefully it'll give us (some of) the info we need.

--
-billy-
Ok...:

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Me>ipconfig

Windows IP Configuration


Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 2:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : comcast.net
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 24.118.66.51
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.252.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 24.118.64.1


Quote:
Originally Posted by TronDD
Nope. You shouldn't need to change anything on your machine. The configuration needs to be done on the cable modem. I don't see insturctions there for waht you need to do.

I assume the IP on your PC is 192.168.x.x

Do this to see:

Start->Run
type in "cmd" and hit "ok"
At the C:\> prompt, type: ipconfig
hit enter and see what it says after "IP Address"

Also see what is says for "Default Gateway". It should be another 192.168.x.x IP and that is the IP of your cable modem. You should be able to put that into a web browser and connect to it (It might not be on port 80, though, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it)
Umm... No, it's not 192.168.x.x. How'd you get that? Actually it says:

IP Address: 24.118.66.81
Defalut Gateway: 24.118.64.1


Quote:
Originally Posted by Laxe
Ok, well I took a look at the manual and what you firstly want to do is go to page 38 and find out your 'i.p. address'. This will be your internal ip which you need to tell your modem to send data packets too via the ports used by BT.

HOW you do that with this model I don't know I'm afraid. Most Routers or Modems have a special ip address that lets you access the actual config of the device and set the port-forwarding/virtual server/port mapping (they're all the same really).

If you can find that (don't tell us the ip but look at it yourself) then give us a run-down of options and we'll go from there.
Meh, too late to not tell my IP address. I know my IP address but what do I do with it? This cable modem's weird. There isn't an icon for me to click to configure it or anything of that sort. Also, my Azureus BT client was working fine until I d/l version 2.0.8.4.

Anyway, thanks for all of your help so far people! I appreciate it!
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Old 2004-03-21, 21:12   Link #16
warnold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Link
Ok...:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : comcast.net
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 24.118.66.51
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.252.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 24.118.64.1
Ok, based upon that information, your cable modem is not doing NAT.

--
-billy-
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Old 2004-03-21, 21:25   Link #17
Laxe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Link
Ok...:

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Me>ipconfig

Windows IP Configuration


Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 2:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : comcast.net
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 24.118.66.51
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.252.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 24.118.64.1




Umm... No, it's not 192.168.x.x. How'd you get that? Actually it says:

IP Address: 24.118.66.81
Defalut Gateway: 24.118.64.1




Meh, too late to not tell my IP address. I know my IP address but what do I do with it? This cable modem's weird. There isn't an icon for me to click to configure it or anything of that sort. Also, my Azureus BT client was working fine until I d/l version 2.0.8.4.

Anyway, thanks for all of your help so far people! I appreciate it!
Hmmm, ok I think you should e-mail Motorola and see if their tech support can tell you how to forward ports. I would've thought this sort of option is basic in all forms of networking but apparently not... Let us know how it goes.
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Old 2004-03-21, 21:27   Link #18
TronDD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warnold
Ok, based upon that information, your cable modem is not doing NAT.

--
-billy-
Correct. You have a direct connection to the net. However, the cable modem might still have a firewall active. I doubt it, though.
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Old 2004-03-21, 21:35   Link #19
TronDD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Link
Also, my Azureus BT client was working fine until I d/l version 2.0.8.4.
Just noticed this. I have been having trouble with the newest azureus too. I can be connected to a few seeds and like 100 peers and be getting 0k/sec with occasional momentary bursts to 12 or 20/k then back to 0. Only happens on some torrents, though. I don't know what the deal it.
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Old 2004-03-21, 21:55   Link #20
warnold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TronDD
Just noticed this. I have been having trouble with the newest azureus too. I can be connected to a few seeds and like 100 peers and be getting 0k/sec with occasional momentary bursts to 12 or 20/k then back to 0. Only happens on some torrents, though. I don't know what the deal it.
Whereas I'm having 0 problems with it. (current upload 197KB/s on 35 torrents)
--
-billy-
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