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Old 2011-05-16, 21:05   Link #101
Malkuth
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In the 80s it was pirate casettes
In the 90s pirate video tapes
In the 00s pirate CD/DVDs
In the 10s pirate downloads

And it's not like any law can go around the fact that when you buy the licensed product 99% of the money you spend does not go to the creator.

For downloads the solution is simple proxy your IP, at least you won't propagate a system of leeches that profits on other peoples' work.
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Old 2011-05-16, 22:19   Link #102
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
1. The Analog Hole. It has to be analog at some point. Not the best, but it will always work.

2. I thought it was ruled that IP != person. You have to bug their house and catch them downloading things that way to have a case in court. Can someone confirm?
*Most* courts are ruling IP!=person... a few ruled it was, but then there's the appeal. Fortunately for consumers, the courts are *mostly* getting pissed off at the "content barons" and their sloppy, half-assed legal maneuvers.
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Old 2011-05-16, 22:24   Link #103
DonQuigleone
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It's possible that with IP v6 every household could have a static IP. In which case things could shift.

On the other hand, that wouldn't stop people from hacking your address. So it would still be difficult to prove "beyond reasonable doubt".
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Old 2011-05-16, 23:17   Link #104
Ithekro
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Oddly, such things still couldn't stop someone with a old Walkman plugged into the headphones jack from just recording something online.
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Old 2011-05-17, 00:06   Link #105
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Oddly, such things still couldn't stop someone with a old Walkman plugged into the headphones jack from just recording something online.
Heh... I recorded the *moon landing* in 1969 with an audio cassette recorder and an 8mm camera pointed at the tv screen (eleven year old geekiness).
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Old 2011-05-17, 03:03   Link #106
Tsuyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
In the 80s it was pirate casettes
In the 90s pirate video tapes
In the 00s pirate CD/DVDs
In the 10s pirate downloads

And it's not like any law can go around the fact that when you buy the licensed product 99% of the money you spend does not go to the creator.

For downloads the solution is simple proxy your IP, at least you won't propagate a system of leeches that profits on other peoples' work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Heh... I recorded the *moon landing* in 1969 with an audio cassette recorder and an 8mm camera pointed at the tv screen (eleven year old geekiness).
This situation kinda makes the song titled "Don't stop me now" by Queen play in my head Nothing's gonna stop people from doing _illegal_ things while people can still think.

Last edited by Tsuyoshi; 2011-05-17 at 03:22.
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Old 2011-05-17, 03:26   Link #107
Masuzu
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Quote:
Nothing's gonna stop people from doing _illegal_ things while people can still think.
if people stop, i'm leaving
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Old 2011-05-17, 03:29   Link #108
erneiz_hyde
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Spoiler for random blurting don't take it seriously:


Ishihara's passed bill wreaked havoc in Japan. Perhaps it's best to think that this will somehow pass and prepare accordingly. Afterall, being *cue sarcastic voice* "sensible" is what the goverments do best.
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Old 2011-05-17, 03:30   Link #109
Tsuyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Box View Post
if people stop, i'm leaving
Where will you go?
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Old 2011-05-17, 04:14   Link #110
Masuzu
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Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi View Post
Where will you go?
out

if you know what i mean
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Old 2011-05-17, 08:48   Link #111
Random32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
It's possible that with IP v6 every household could have a static IP. In which case things could shift.

On the other hand, that wouldn't stop people from hacking your address. So it would still be difficult to prove "beyond reasonable doubt".
Most consumer routers are NATed. Thus I just log into your wifi and download and then you get blamed. Even with IPv6, I doubt it will be IP == person.
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Old 2011-05-17, 10:22   Link #112
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
Most consumer routers are NATed. Thus I just log into your wifi and download and then you get blamed. Even with IPv6, I doubt it will be IP == person.
The problem is not that the IP might or might not be a valid means to prove you've downloaded the stuff. It is sufficient if it gives enough reason to get the police a warrant to search your home. And if they are going to find a lot of pirated stuff then... (your IP won't really matter anymore). - at least thats how this would be done in Germany, given there is enough evidence to support such a warrant (which translates into: you'ld basically have to download and distribute pirated material non-stop).
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Old 2011-05-17, 12:04   Link #113
Ithekro
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Consider this. Your computer needs to save a temp version of whatever it is to run on your machine, right? What then?
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Old 2011-05-17, 13:35   Link #114
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Consider this. Your computer needs to save a temp version of whatever it is to run on your machine, right? What then?
Uh what? Streaming encrypted data requires almost no temporary buffers and especially not on a slow hdd (usually it runs in a protected memory zone of the windows kernel). I mean even if you were to claim that some malicious software had downloaded all the movies and stored it temporarily into folders that are coincidentally named after the movies, you'ld still need to find a judge who would buy that crap excuse.
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Old 2011-05-17, 13:42   Link #115
Ithekro
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Must have been for an older technology that I'm thinking of. Havem't paid much attention to my temp files since about 2004.
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Old 2011-05-17, 15:06   Link #116
Proto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
Bizarre, isn't it?
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How ironic that Mexico is the voice of freedom over the internet.
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Originally Posted by Cellatore View Post
(...) not everybody in Mexico is a bad person; (...)

Somehow I now feel like I'm almost expected to be a horrible person. Wait, am I a person actually? Maybe mexicans aren't actually people?
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Old 2011-05-17, 15:14   Link #117
Ithekro
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Wait, Mexicans are robots?
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Old 2011-05-17, 15:32   Link #118
Vexx
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Somehow I now feel like I'm almost expected to be a horrible person. Wait, am I a person actually? Maybe mexicans aren't actually people?
Somehow my comment has been horribly taken out of context. The Mexican *government* is not known as a terribly well functioning entity (due to the drug cartel corruption and the long time influence of corruption from the wealthy elite). I said *nothing* about the Mexican people or the average citizen. I just found it ironic that what many consider to be a "failing state" government stands up for the rights of the individual and the Commons in terms of the Internet.

Also, that quote is old enough - I'm not currently familiar with the current state of copyright and fair use in Mexico.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto
Uh what? Streaming encrypted data requires almost no temporary buffers and especially not on a slow hdd (usually it runs in a protected memory zone of the windows kernel). I mean even if you were to claim that some malicious software had downloaded all the movies and stored it temporarily into folders that are coincidentally named after the movies, you'ld still need to find a judge who would buy that crap excuse.
And interestingly, streaming encrypted data with no buffers usually means I just don't watch it all -- because unbuffered connections are stuttering crap on most of what the US calls "broadband" (broadly defined ) and the hell I'm going to re-download something every single time I look at it when most US broadband has draconian caps . So the content guard dogs succeed(fail) in that I don't bother LOOKING at their content at all.

The fastest way to get my wife cursing and heading out to the garden is for her to try and watch a stuttering unbuffered stream (her being my household reference for what the public will tolerate). (for the record, I have a 3mbit down. buffered, no prob ... games, no prob ... downloads, no prob ... encrypted unbuffered "content", sucks)

Interestingly, the Netflix mechanism seems to work pretty well (Silverlight)... though I haven't tried snatching anything from it because, frankly, we just use it for stuff we weren't planning to rewatch anyway. All the "valuable" content from the Big Broadcasters via their 'special subscription streaming', .... stutter hell.

Last edited by Vexx; 2011-05-17 at 15:57.
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Old 2011-05-17, 16:12   Link #119
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
And interestingly, streaming encrypted data with no buffers usually means I just don't watch it all -- because unbuffered connections are stuttering crap on most of what the US calls "broadband" (broadly defined ) and the hell I'm going to re-download something every single time I look at it when most US broadband has draconian caps . So the content guard dogs succeed(fail) in that I don't bother LOOKING at their content at all.
Well, I wasn't making a point for the technology. I tried to explain, why it is easier to proof the deliberate use of pirated material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
The fastest way to get my wife cursing and heading out to the garden is for her to try and watch a stuttering unbuffered stream (her being my household reference for what the public will tolerate). (for the record, I have a 3mbit down. buffered, no prob ... games, no prob ... downloads, no prob ... encrypted unbuffered "content", sucks)
Maybe this technology has an advantage after all... people will spend more time in the garden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Interestingly, the Netflix mechanism seems to work pretty well (Silverlight)... though I haven't tried snatching anything from it because, frankly, we just use it for stuff we weren't planning to rewatch anyway. All the "valuable" content from the Big Broadcasters via their 'special subscription streaming', .... stutter hell.
I suppose the media industry will demand better broadband connectivity before they are going to give up on their protected distribution of content. Or blame the end users for their "bad" broadband connection (In our laboratory LAN-WAN simulation everything works sooo smooth... ). I hope you don't have to pay for stuttering special subscription streaming.
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Old 2011-05-17, 16:24   Link #120
Random32
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I doubt the police will search casual downloaders just because of an IP address. I can sit on a park bench and get a few unprotected wifi, a few WEP, and a few WPA, which probably have bad pass so can be dictionary hacked. If it gets to that point, there will be people who leech wifi to pirate, and the MAFIAA can't possibly search everyone who manages to have their IP address associated with piracy. Also, I don't think people would like it if every other day they were search for piracy they didn't commit.
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