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View Poll Results: Your impression of the movie - A Wakening of the Trailblazer
091 - 100: Amazing 78 24.30%
081 - 090: Great 66 20.56%
071 - 080: Very Good 46 14.33%
061 - 070: Good 50 15.58%
051 - 060: Average 24 7.48%
041 - 050: Below Average 16 4.98%
031 - 040: Bad 6 1.87%
021 - 030: Very Bad 4 1.25%
011 - 020: Awful 10 3.12%
001 - 010: You would rather watch Britney Spears exposing her crotch. *shudder* 21 6.54%
Voters: 321. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-01-25, 02:06   Link #861
Shinji103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finalnight View Post
Just watched it, question:

Spoiler for Movie:
Spoiler:
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Old 2011-01-25, 03:03   Link #862
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Yes, and my question was, what threat? That is, what threat did these special humans posed to the ELS that would endanger their self-preservation? The movie failed to answer that question, leaving us to guess what the ELS' perception of a human-posed threat.

Presumably the ELS could have just altered course and avoided the humans, but they did not do that, and decided to destroy them with overwhelming superiority.
Just want to answer this little tidbit here, since I didn't quite notice it before: the threat was the hostile feelings they detected from Descartes. He did explicitly say he was taking out all his frustrations out on them, so he was broadcasting that feeling through the Gadelaza's weapon systems (which were synchronized with his quantum brainwaves, as explained during its first sortie). It worked both ways, as whenever one of the ELS stickied to a large GN-Fang, Descartes felt the feedback through the control system. This was explained in an interview as well, IIRC.

Plus, there was the additional threat of, y'know, the Gadelaza blowing the shit out of them at the time. >.> That kinda added to the frightening experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
The problem is that we are filling the blanks here, and while the points made are not completely invalid, we have no way of verifying our hypothesis to their full extent.
Well to be fair, it doesn't have to fill in every little blank. I personally don't want a movie that holds my hand through every concept depicted. But as I mentioned before, there have been interviews that have been translated that fill in some of the blanks. They can be found elsewhere in the Gundam 00 movie threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Seeing how death is a universal concept amongst sentiment beings, I do not understand as to why the ELS would have a different conception of pain & suffering from us. Especially since the movie failed to show just exactly in what ways different the ELS perceived them. If anything, the movie pretty much showed that the ELS fear and loath agony the way we do.

Then we come to this:
While death is a universal concept, pain likely isn't--by their very nature, the ELS cannot possibly feel pain in the same sense that we do. They are not organic creatures, they are metallic. They are living metal--their biology, for lack of a more appropriate term, is completely different than that of any organic creature. So I'd be surprised if they did feel pain in the exact same manner as we do. That's the real beauty behind the ELS: they are aliens, and are as alien as they come, beyond our comprehension.

Also I'd like to point out that "Then we come to this:" you quoted me, but the text wasn't from any of my posts. =X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Apparently the ELS are so quick at adapting and advancing existing human technology to the point where an ancient 130 year old space vessel can be altered to deter the most advanced missile technology Earth has to offer (so no, our psycho-innovators actually did not fire the first shot), but in the ELS' infinite wisdom, it cannot use the same vessel send a signal to approaching patrol ships in an attempt to communicate? It can render a trucks into a pilotless drone but somehow unable to broadcast its desire to communicate by other means? That is not very convincing.

Moreover I am quite certain the ELS sensed doubt amongst humanity when the latter debated on the course of action against them, but obviously that made no impact even though the ELS had been amongst humanity for quite some time prior to their massive invasion. I have to wonder what the ELS did all these time while on Earth ? Did they not learn anything? What was the preventing factor for them to acquire information from humanity? Yes, its great that Setsuna can combine with Deus-ex-machina to communicate with the ELS, but what was the preventing factor for the latter to learn in the first place!?
Well, the thing is, the revived ghost ship was only just correcting its course to dodge the missiles. That in itself isn't very impressive, we already know they can fly phenomenally well in space. As for signals... well, didn't they? Mena specifically mentioned that the Jupiter Radio Waves (whatever they are) had changed, becoming eerily similar to quantum brainwaves. So perhaps they were attempting a signal communication of a sort. But the problem is, the ELS doesn't know that only a select few in humanity can receive quantum brainwaves, let alone understand them or even know what the hell quantum brainwaves are. Sensing humanity's doubt? Doubtful in itself--humanity lacked quantum brainwaves to broadcast their own feelings. Their only experiences with that were with Descartes, as while the Innovator potentials they checked out on Earth had the potential, they still weren't Innovators and likely couldn't utilize quantum brainwaves yet.

As for the ship's communication equipment? Sure, it's there, but how do they use it? Written words and the spoken language would beam nothing to the ELS--from what we know, they have only ever communicated through quantum brainwaves. We certainly don't see them talking, we don't know anything about whatever senses they have, like sight and hearing.

They just frankly didn't understand, and they were trying to in the only way they knew how.
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Old 2011-01-25, 06:00   Link #863
deadite
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The way I see it, the ELS were shooting because we were shooting at them. They thought we were was saying hello and "greeted" us inturn. Remember all those shows where the explorer goes to meet some tribe and imitates what he things is a sign of greeting?
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Old 2011-01-25, 06:43   Link #864
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I sure hope that's a joke post.
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Old 2011-01-25, 09:26   Link #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu View Post
I sure hope that's a joke post.
you mean the post above you?

sadly, that's exactly what happened

ELS learns by imitation and unification.
across all battle of the movie , they were doing exactly one thing, imitation.

They responded in the same form of interaction in which human has given to them

The first physical contact was when it/they received attack from Shaman
The attack was performed by Fangs, hence majority of ELS' attacks early on are in Fangs form

they also emulated the form of Flags, Braves and, battlecruisers in the final battle. Not because it's more efficient than their own form, but because that's
the "tools" that human use to "interact" with them.

If you notice, no matter how much human technology the ELS absorbed, they never created their own weapon or form to fight humans. (besides the capture claws, and their space ship original used for traveling.


For all we know, they really might think they are saying things like. "good morning" to the human race
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Old 2011-01-25, 10:15   Link #866
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Originally Posted by DSlayerZX View Post
you mean the post above you?

sadly, that's exactly what happened

ELS learns by imitation and unification.
across all battle of the movie , they were doing exactly one thing, imitation.

They responded in the same form of interaction in which human has given to them

The first physical contact was when it/they received attack from Shaman
The attack was performed by Fangs, hence majority of ELS' attacks early on are in Fangs form

they also emulated the form of Flags, Braves and, battlecruisers in the final battle. Not because it's more efficient than their own form, but because that's
the "tools" that human use to "interact" with them.

If you notice, no matter how much human technology the ELS absorbed, they never created their own weapon or form to fight humans. (besides the capture claws, and their space ship original used for traveling.


For all we know, they really might think they are saying things like. "good morning" to the human race
Believe it or not, this is probably spot on.
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Old 2011-01-25, 11:35   Link #867
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Just Finished watching the movie. I struggled to remember the characters or even if Feldt and Anon were the same or if Feldt and Setsuna had a relationship going.

Movies need to be released shortly after the Seasons end!

I am confused about the ending. ELS were attacking and killing us .... our heroes went to face them in their Gundams , Setsuna dived into some sphere and THE END?!!!
How the hell do we know if they were defeated, if humanity was saved!
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Old 2011-01-25, 11:50   Link #868
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I guess the end was too symbolic for its own good. A lot of people didn't understand it.
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Old 2011-01-25, 11:53   Link #869
Tak
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Originally Posted by velocity7 View Post
Believe it or not, this is probably spot on.
Which is an absolute let down, considering all the hype surrounding the dialogue. Perhaps I overestimated the quality of ELS being adversaries, but to get something like this is not expected, and at least for me, a major disappointment.

Now I have an empty void that cannot be filled... *sniff*

- Tak
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Old 2011-01-25, 12:04   Link #870
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What part of not being a hostile force did you not understand? It was the humans who saw them as a threat(understandably). ELS were there to learn using the only way, they were not enemies. The fact that humanity got owned when the ELS were "waving their hands to say hello" just shows how terrifying they could be if they really wanted to destroy you.

Did you expect them to be some malevolent force bent on the destruction of mankind? If you did, you completely missed the point of the movie,
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Old 2011-01-25, 12:13   Link #871
Tak
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Originally Posted by deadite View Post
Did you expect them to be some malevolent force bent on the destruction of mankind? If you did, you completely missed the point of the movie,
Did I say they were supposed to be some malevolent force bent on the destruction of mankind? Hell, did you even read previous posts on the matter discussing the very nature of the ELS? Nowhere did anyone state they are bent on blowing up Earth.

No, but I consider the ELS to be cheap and cliche, and at the end leaving me very unsatisfied. All that talk about dialogues bullshit and this is what we get, monkey see, monkey do, a war caused because of the want to say hello. What!?

So, which part of UNSATISFACTORY do you not understand?

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Old 2011-01-25, 12:22   Link #872
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cliche WTF? That's your opinion. More aliens like them need have to be around then humanoid rubberhead aliens. I don't see how it's cliche when 90% of alien invasion shows is about humanity coming out triumphant and crushing the invaders. In fact I would like to see more shows like the novel Ender's Game.
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Old 2011-01-25, 12:25   Link #873
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Okay, ladies? Chill out. There's no need for a fight.
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Old 2011-01-25, 12:33   Link #874
Tak
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Originally Posted by deadite View Post
cliche WTF? That's your opinion.
No shit, it is my opinion! What do you think this is, a fucking stick up where I put a gun to your head and force you to eat my words?

I had to endure this whole hype surrounding this dialogue and this is what I got. It was something I simply found to be utterly unfulfilling, so at the end I am left unsatisfied. Is that really difficult to articulate? I am not entertained at a level I need to be!

Nowhere did I mention anything about one triumphing over another or even one bent on the total annihilation of certain species.

Thank you for your input, now get a clue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deadite View Post
I don't see how it's cliche when 90% of alien invasion shows is about humanity coming out triumphant and crushing the invaders.
Funny that, in most sci-fi anime, the reverse happens. Most of the time, humanity is barely saved due to Alien sympathies. I cannot think of many series where humanity actually came out triumphant and crushing the invaders.

- Tak
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Old 2011-01-25, 13:07   Link #875
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Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu View Post
I sure hope that's a joke post.
No and it shouldn't be a joke. The morals that we live with is just an idea - a thought. The ELS may have their own morals and thought process that we as humans cannot possibly understand - likewise from the ELS to humans.
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Old 2011-01-25, 13:10   Link #876
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By the way, what ever happened to the Jupiter incident with Europa? Was it ever explained at one point why people were massacred and files deleted?
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Old 2011-01-25, 13:16   Link #877
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Originally Posted by Methuselah View Post
By the way, what ever happened to the Jupiter incident with Europa? Was it ever explained at one point why people were massacred and files deleted?
To make sure there weren't any traces of what they were actually doing there.
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Old 2011-01-25, 13:43   Link #878
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To make sure there weren't any traces of what they were actually doing there.
...No... because Season 1's villain's family discovered the Horo terminal inside the ship.

If they were... who's plan was that? I mean Celestial Beings consist of so many people. Sure Veda would put explosive braces on the ones not trusted but this situation seems out of place.


Noticed that 50 years later after the movie the Orbital elevators and solar plants are gone?!!! Wow!
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Old 2011-01-25, 13:48   Link #879
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Originally Posted by Methuselah View Post
...No... because Season 1's villain's family discovered the Horo terminal inside the ship.
That's because the one responsible for deleting all the data missed it.

Quote:
If they were... who's plan was that? I mean Celestial Beings consist of so many people. Sure Veda would put explosive braces on the ones not trusted but this situation seems out of place.
... contrary to popular opinion, Celestial Being was not a benevolent group
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Old 2011-01-25, 16:55   Link #880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Methuselah View Post
By the way, what ever happened to the Jupiter incident with Europa? Was it ever explained at one point why people were massacred and files deleted?
To help protect the Drives from being replicated. Not having the Drives technology being copied was an important priority according to the MG Exia manual, which was one of the reasons so little of them was made. (as well as them being hard to make of course)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methuselah View Post
...No... because Season 1's villain's family discovered the Horo terminal inside the ship.

If they were... who's plan was that? I mean Celestial Beings consist of so many people. Sure Veda would put explosive braces on the ones not trusted but this situation seems out of place.


Noticed that 50 years later after the movie the Orbital elevators and solar plants are gone?!!! Wow!
I think the HD screenshots shows they're still there.

As for Celestial Being killing their own scientists out of place, it isn't really. The groups operate on end justifying the means basis over the years. They've caused an energy crisis (as to increase the promotion of Aeolia's SES) in the past as well as to help ensure the creation of the blocs, they've kidnapped scientists, etcetc.

The Ptolemaios faction seem to be the exception to this rather than being the rule. They were made out of people who wanted to change things for the better but they have their own limits to the extent their willing to go, and they're mostly unware of a lot of the things their larger organization has done over the years since it's always on a need to know basis. Even the Observers were mostly unhappy with the method that the Ptolemaios faction has been conducting their interventions(which kinda shows what moral grounds they stand on), due to their perceived incompetence as well as their effect of not terrorizing the world as much as they should have. That's why they were so willing to approve of the Trinities when Alejandro presented them, they didn't like the current members of the Ptolemaios faction.

Even during the 0 Gundam's test run like 6 years prior to S1, Ribbons was under orders to kill all witnessess that saw the 0 Gundam but he disobeyed the order and spared Setsuna on a whim, because he saw Setsuna looked up at him "like a God", and this was the inspiration for him to start his deviation from the Plan as well as to choose Setsuna as a Gundam Meister later. (it's because of Ribbons forcing the position onto Setsuna was why Tieria was so suspicious of him because he saw that they were some altered data on the Exia Meister seat and the position was locked from the start. The other two human Meisters was chosen by scout "closet" Innovade named Grave)
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