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Old 2011-01-22, 12:06   Link #161
broken270
Defying gravity
 
 
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Old 2011-01-22, 13:24   Link #162
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
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Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
Great post, and lets not forget that Shouta is over analysing things too. We don't get to hear his thoughts, but damn it man make more of an effort and stop giving up so easily.

Both of them are driving me nuts. I deliberately didn't watch epi 1 until 2 came out because I thought that they could have left valentines days as a cliff hanger, but instead I'm even more worked up. Still loving the show

@orion - I wouldn't call Sawako a coward. She over analyses things, and is over considerate. She thinks she is being selfish by pushing her feelings onto others and ends up winding herself up. She doesn't want to risk her friendship with Shouta, because it means so much to her, especially since I believe she doesn't really understand her feelings for him. Ume helped in a strange way. I think Sawako would have hated herself if she did give the chocolates with false pretenses, instead now she is forced to face her feelings and hopefully overcome that hurdle.
I wouldn't call her cowardly either, for the same reason I don't call running away from a lion while screaming like a little girl "cowardly". Sawako's fear is quite understandable and normal. As you said, Kazehaya's friendship means a lot to her. Even though we know her fear of rejection is groundless, she doesn't. And we can't really expect her to. But none of that takes away from the fact that fear is her prime motivator, here. Not "innocence" or "nobility". Certainly not honesty - if she was honest, she'd just confess and take what comes.

It's not my intention to give her too much flak about that. As I said, it's all very normal. If anything, I'm annoyed at Kazehaya. He's the one with all the self-confidence and people skills. He's the one who should do something. I understand that Valentine was a serious blow. All in all, he recovered pretty gracefully. But how much grief would it have spared if he'd let her know he was interested before Valentine?
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Old 2011-01-22, 18:47   Link #163
grey_moon
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
It's not my intention to give her too much flak about that. As I said, it's all very normal. If anything, I'm annoyed at Kazehaya. He's the one with all the self-confidence and people skills. He's the one who should do something. I understand that Valentine was a serious blow. All in all, he recovered pretty gracefully. But how much grief would it have spared if he'd let her know he was interested before Valentine?
I could imagine that someone like Kento would waltz to the girl they like and demand their chocolates.

I don't like how he confronted Sawako at the end, which I am guessing was triggered by Kento's actions around Sawako. Of course I don't know how he will act next episode, does he think that Sawako has rejected him? Does he think that Kento has something special with her?

He was pretty bold when Ume tried to make him jealous with RyuXSawako plan. I hope he mans up!!!
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Old 2011-01-22, 19:23   Link #164
orion
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
It's not my intention to give her too much flak about that. As I said, it's all very normal. If anything, I'm annoyed at Kazehaya. He's the one with all the self-confidence and people skills. He's the one who should do something. I understand that Valentine was a serious blow. All in all, he recovered pretty gracefully. But how much grief would it have spared if he'd let her know he was interested before Valentine?
If he had been proactive and dropped a hint, then maybe it could have been avoided. But he didn't call her either over the holiday. Maybe he's waiting for her to make the next move which knowing Sawako ain't gonna happen soon. Basicaly no communication over the holidays threw both sides out of whack.

Assuming that Sawako had at least one vertebrae was a bit too much let alone the entire spine.
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Old 2011-01-23, 01:15   Link #165
grey_moon
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
If he had been proactive and dropped a hint, then maybe it could have been avoided. But he didn't call her either over the holiday. Maybe he's waiting for her to make the next move which knowing Sawako ain't gonna happen soon. Basicaly no communication over the holidays threw both sides out of whack.
Too true!!!

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Originally Posted by orion View Post
Assuming that Sawako had at least one vertebrae was a bit too much let alone the entire spine.
Unfair. Sawako has issues just talking to people. She has a physical response to dealing with strangers. When she tries to smile she ends up grimacing (if you can call it that), her mind says "say hello" and that isn't what comes out of her mouth.

She over analyses things, in the same way that ppl with OCD freak about if the door has been locked. So any stray thought seems to snowball, and add in a huge dose of humility that probably comes closer to self-deprecation. So for her to do something which most people find difficult such as asking someone out, or confessing one's love is a bit much in my book.

Also a big point is, she knows that she wants more from her relationship with Shouta, but she seems to think that she doesn't deserve it. What makes her more special then Ume? What makes her more special then anyone else?

It would take a lot for her to impose her feelings on anyone, especially someone she cares about (remember the xmas party and her dad?)
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Old 2011-01-24, 09:24   Link #166
ashe
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yay! so good to be back! finally!!!
just watched episode 0, and it brings back memories! natsukashii!
after ranting here, now i'm all set for the 1st episode!
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Old 2011-01-24, 10:20   Link #167
Azuma Denton
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Listened to the full ED song, "Kimi ni Todoke..."
Quite emotional song.
Fit to be ending of 2nd season for future event in this serie...
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Old 2011-01-24, 11:00   Link #168
ashe
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
& personally i don't see why she needs so much grief from viewers because of it. I guess i just view Sawako differently from others.
i'm with you here.
damn, i've watched season 1 like a movie marathon after i've completed it first and left out the concluding parts for months before i finished it.. now i'm suffering as i'm not used to waiting after each episode. wah, can't wait for next's!
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Old 2011-01-25, 01:47   Link #169
Kismet-chan
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
If you're talking about the main pairing, it'd be more accurate to say it's about misunderstandings. It's quickly apparent to the reader and to Ayane that the love is requited.
The love is requited, but THEY don't know that. As far as Sawako knows, her love is unrequited (at the moment), and as far as Kazehaya knows (once again, only at the moment), his love is unrequited. Their feelings are mutual, but neither one of them knows that yet. THAT'S what I meant when I said what I did. It's like... the major component of the plot. They're not the only characters who experience it, either. (Kurumi love's for Kazahaya is the obvious one, then there's Ryuu's love for Chizu, but both of those are one-sided.) The name of the ED song by Chara of the first season was Kataomoi. Kataomoi literally translates to "Unrequited Love". If nobody noticed, they often played the song (or different versions of it), when scenes regarding the matter of one's feelings not being returned were occurring.
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Old 2011-01-25, 02:44   Link #170
orion
Waiting for more taiyuki!
 
 
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Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post
The love is requited, but THEY don't know that. As far as Sawako knows, her love is unrequited (at the moment), and as far as Kazehaya knows (once again, only at the moment), his love is unrequited. Their feelings are mutual, but neither one of them knows that yet. THAT'S what I meant when I said what I did. It's like... the major component of the plot. They're not the only characters who experience it, either. (Kurumi love's for Kazahaya is the obvious one, then there's Ryuu's love for Chizu, but both of those are one-sided.) The name of the ED song by Chara of the first season was Kataomoi. Kataomoi literally translates to "Unrequited Love". If nobody noticed, they often played the song (or different versions of it), when scenes regarding the matter of one's feelings not being returned were occurring.
They're both prob 16 yo now. They both need to "man up".
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Old 2011-01-25, 03:41   Link #171
grey_moon
Yummy, sweet and unyuu!!!
 
 
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Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
Listened to the full ED song, "Kimi ni Todoke..."
Quite emotional song.
Fit to be ending of 2nd season for future event in this serie...
The video that goes with it is pretty sweet too
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Old 2011-01-25, 04:45   Link #172
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
They're both prob 16 yo now. They both need to "man up".
Sigh.

Is it just going to be this from you for this season? Like it's been said a number of times, and you've always seen it yourself, Sawako is not your everyday girl in highschool, so this 'man up' nonsense doesn't work with her at all, or Kazehaya for that matter. They both work differently then the highschool boy and girl that you have in your head.
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Old 2011-01-25, 13:07   Link #173
orion
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Sigh.

Is it just going to be this from you for this season? Like it's been said a number of times, and you've always seen it yourself, Sawako is not your everyday girl in highschool, so this 'man up' nonsense doesn't work with her at all, or Kazehaya for that matter. They both work differently then the highschool boy and girl that you have in your head.
Probably.

As "wprking differently" isn't much of an excuse as with different ages there's an expectation of behavior. Sawako needs to 'speed it up" a bit. Life normally doesn't wait for people like her to catch up. Her nadesico status is giving her plot shield.
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Old 2011-01-25, 13:48   Link #174
Kismet-chan
The Chaotic Dreamer
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
Probably.

As "wprking differently" isn't much of an excuse as with different ages there's an expectation of behavior. Sawako needs to 'speed it up" a bit. Life normally doesn't wait for people like her to catch up. Her nadesico status is giving her plot shield.
Aren't you forgetting two very crucial things? A) Everyone is different and reacts to different situations in different ways, and B) this is an ANIME. Even if we DID pretend for a moment that everyone in the world acted according to ridiculous world you have set up in your head, the creator of KnT made the story the way it is for a reason. Certain plot devices are used and certain kinds of characteristics and personalities are developed purely for the sake of the genre/medium. I'm pretty sure that Sawako is meant to be that way for various, legitimate reasons.
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Old 2011-01-25, 14:07   Link #175
orion
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Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post
Aren't you forgetting two very crucial things? A) Everyone is different and reacts to different situations in different ways, and B) this is an ANIME. Even if we DID pretend for a moment that everyone in the world acted according to ridiculous world you have set up in your head, the creator of KnT made the story the way it is for a reason. Certain plot devices are used and certain kinds of characteristics and personalities are developed purely for the sake of the genre/medium. I'm pretty sure that Sawako is meant to be that way for various, legitimate reasons.
And that's why I added nadesico plot shield. Hopefully, she'll develop more next episode. Maybe Kurumi can shake some sense into her by example.
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Old 2011-01-25, 14:23   Link #176
GreatTeacherKen
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^^ From a storytelling perspective, I think Sawako suddenly becoming a confident person would clash with her established personality and also the pacing of the series. Sawako is developing, it's just happening gradually.

IMO change doesn't come quickly, so generally speaking, if you want things or people to change, you have to be patient, especially for someone like Sawako who has had no social life for the vast majority of her life. Indeed, it's only in high school that she's learning and experiencing things like friendship and love for the first time.

In a sense, she's a fish out of water, everything that's happened in this story is all a new experience for her so of course it'll be much harder for her to adjust and she can't be expected to just know what to do and what to say. The first time for anything is usually the most difficult time because people have no idea what they're supposed to do. I assume most users here aren't like Sawako so we have a better idea of what to do.

Not to mention that people learn things from observing others. I believe that people need at least a little bit of guidance in their lives in order to survive. Sawako's peers refused to talk to Sawako, so she never got the chance to learn. Thankfully, Sawako's new-found friends are supportive and willing to wait for her to catch up.
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Old 2011-01-25, 14:23   Link #177
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
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Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post
Aren't you forgetting two very crucial things? A) Everyone is different and reacts to different situations in different ways, and B) this is an ANIME. Even if we DID pretend for a moment that everyone in the world acted according to ridiculous world you have set up in your head, the creator of KnT made the story the way it is for a reason. Certain plot devices are used and certain kinds of characteristics and personalities are developed purely for the sake of the genre/medium. I'm pretty sure that Sawako is meant to be that way for various, legitimate reasons.
I don't see what's ridiculous about his claims. One of them need to ask the other out. Period. It's not a story of forbidden love or of incompatible dreams, where hard choices have to be made. The obstacles aren't family feuds, long distance, age difference or anything like that. It's their shyness, and their misreadings of each other. That's basically the story for now: a long crawl to the point where one of them finally gets his or her courage and confesses, and the other say yes.

I agree that it's not going to be easy, especially for Sawako. I agree that such a thing is harder for her than for, say, Ayane. But when all's said and done, the problem is exactly like Orion's stated: one of them need to "man up".
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Old 2011-01-25, 14:59   Link #178
Kismet-chan
The Chaotic Dreamer
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I don't see what's ridiculous about his claims. One of them need to ask the other out. Period. It's not a story of forbidden love or of incompatible dreams, where hard choices have to be made. The obstacles aren't family feuds, long distance, age difference or anything like that. It's their shyness, and their misreadings of each other. That's basically the story for now: a long crawl to the point where one of them finally gets his or her courage and confesses, and the other say yes.

I agree that it's not going to be easy, especially for Sawako. I agree that such a thing is harder for her than for, say, Ayane. But when all's said and done, the problem is exactly like Orion's stated: one of them need to "man up".
I wasn't saying that his claims were ridiculous. I was saying that assuming that all people in the same situation should get to the point where they declare their feelings as hastily as he is suggesting is ridiculous.

We ALL know they will eventually get to the point where they confess their feelings. The point that many others and I are trying to make is that we have to be patient. Sawako needs a lot of character development. It's paced a lot slower than what most people would prefer (because anime, in general, has flawed most people's concept of what makes good pacing), but it's realistic for someone of Sawako's nature -- and there are a lot of people in real life who would take the situation as slowly and delicately as she is, if not even more so.

Regardless of what anyone can say about anything at this point, the fact of the matter is: like it or not, one way or another, viewers are going to have to wait. Deal with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatTeacherKen View Post
^^ From a storytelling perspective, I think Sawako suddenly becoming a confident person would clash with her established personality and also the pacing of the series. Sawako is developing, it's just happening gradually.

IMO change doesn't come quickly, so generally speaking, if you want things or people to change, you have to be patient, especially for someone like Sawako who has had no social life for the vast majority of her life. Indeed, it's only in high school that she's learning and experiencing things like friendship and love for the first time.

In a sense, she's a fish out of water, everything that's happened in this story is all a new experience for her so of course it'll be much harder for her to adjust and she can't be expected to just know what to do and what to say. The first time for anything is usually the most difficult time because people have no idea what they're supposed to do. I assume most users here aren't like Sawako so we have a better idea of what to do.

Not to mention that people learn things from observing others. I believe that people need at least a little bit of guidance in their lives in order to survive. Sawako's peers refused to talk to Sawako, so she never got the chance to learn. Thankfully, Sawako's new-found friends are supportive and willing to wait for her to catch up.
This sums up my thoughts and feelings exactly.
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Old 2011-01-25, 15:47   Link #179
Flower
Celestial operations....
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Dilapidated Astronomy Observatory...
I becoming more and more "used" to the OP and the EP of the series. It seems the makers of the anime are transitioning nicely into the EP in particular, which is nice to see.
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Old 2011-01-25, 15:56   Link #180
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post
I wasn't saying that his claims were ridiculous. I was saying that assuming that all people in the same situation should get to the point where they declare their feelings as hastily as he is suggesting is ridiculous.
They've known each other for a year. I don't think "hasty" is the right adjective, especially for something as innocuous as dating.

Quote:
We ALL know they will eventually get to the point where they confess their feelings. The point that many others and I are trying to make is that we have to be patient. Sawako needs a lot of character development. It's paced a lot slower than what most people would prefer (because anime, in general, has flawed most people's concept of what makes good pacing), but it's realistic for someone of Sawako's nature -- and there are a lot of people in real life who would take the situation as slowly and delicately as she is, if not even more so.

Regardless of what anyone can say about anything at this point, the fact of the matter is: like it or not, one way or another, viewers are going to have to wait. Deal with it.
Oh, yes. Quite. Which doesn't change the fact that they should speed it up. It just means they aren't going to.
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