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Old 2010-11-02, 20:50   Link #341
karice67
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Hm, yeah, that changes the meaning a bit, but not the essence of Michaels warning.
Personally, I think it says something different about both characters. Alto comes across as reckless rather than just emotionally unprepared, and Michel more concerned about potential danger to the team (and himself) rather than just Alto. Furthermore, given what we know of Michel's upcoming backstory, I seriously doubt he would have said something like "You wouldn't be able to live with yourself if you kill someone" at this point.

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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
What, you mean Alto also is jealous of Sheryls natural beauty?
Hm...would you smile if you were jealous?

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Originally Posted by Lancel View Post
I presume they picked up the pieces.
And put them back together again... (-_-;; )

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Originally Posted by Mei19 View Post
In the middle of this dilemma, Alto heard Ranka's song and all those conflicting emotions VanisheD. And this is why I really realized that it really was Ranka that pushed Alto to join SMS.
Or was it associated with him having to advise her to take the opportunity? It seemed like he's also taking Sheryl's advice to heart here.

Not that they ever clearly explain what Alto's true motivation was, right to the end (IIRC).

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Originally Posted by Lancel View Post
How serious does everyone think Sheryl's threat was in that episode? The one about destroying them socially as well as physically...

... Presumably, but do you think Sheryl really would have done it if the tabloids got a hold of her topless pics?
She probably assumed (and correctly too) that Alto wasn't the kind of person who'd have sold such data. But I bet she could have followed through.
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Old 2010-11-02, 21:06   Link #342
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
First off, no, Alto was upset at being denied doing the corkscrew. He did it to spite Michael, who expressly forbid it and then teased Alto about it.

Nawww, I was talking about the scene before the actual concert. Before and after Alto met Ranka. There was a change in his attitude. But whatever...

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Originally Posted by karice67
Or was it associated with him having to advise her to take the opportunity? It seemed like he's also taking Sheryl's advice to heart here.

Not that they ever clearly explain what Alto's true motivation was, right to the end (IIRC).
Hrmmnn....I think Alto confessed his motives properly in episode 23 though. Whiiich won't be discussed till next year when we get to that part.
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Old 2010-11-02, 21:09   Link #343
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
I believe Gilliam was trying to protect the whole colony considering the Vajra was in the middle of the city. Also, how could Ranka even attend his funeral if not even Gilliam's own family was notified of it.

I'm not sure I understand what the big deal is about Ranka's reaction. Ranka was yelling and screaming during the chaos because she was in danger just like anyone else would. Yes, she saw a soldier die in an inhumane manner and so did plenty of people and her reaction wasn't one that would make me think she didn't care. It was pretty apparent that she was in a state of shock as well considering her reaction later in episode 2 where she was trembling and speaking as if Alto was Ozma.

Asking for Alto is pretty natural if you ask me, especially if it's the person that saved your life although Gilliam deserves the same amount of thanks.

Calling her insensitive and such at this point is just really nit-picking because of established opinions from later development (just in case I'm misunderstood here, I'm not singling you out here Lancel, just speaking in general.)
You see a woman and a boy in black standing by Gilliam's pod at his funeral.

And they never said that the family isn't told that the person died, just how they died.

@Mei19 but the montage says differently, why are the scenes with him so focused on him reacting to Frontier's destruction if it wasn't important?
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Old 2010-11-02, 21:14   Link #344
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
You see a woman and a boy in black standing by Gilliam's pod at his funeral.

And they never said that the family isn't told that the person died, just how they died.
You're right, I never actually noticed that until now. Thanks for pointing that out, I had always assumed that everyone in that room was part of the SMS
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Old 2010-11-02, 21:19   Link #345
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Just compare how long Hikaru/Minmay were trapped to Alto/Sheryl/Ranka.
And that is the root of the problem. But having three people stuck together wouldn't have worked the same so they did do it properly.
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Old 2010-11-02, 21:33   Link #346
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Calling her insensitive and such at this point is just really nit-picking because of established opinions from later development (just in case I'm misunderstood here, I'm not singling you out here Lancel, just speaking in general.)
It's no more a judgment on Ranka's whole character than what I give Sheryl for her bitch moment with Cathy. I just mean that to me it was a bit of an insensitive moment, not that she's insensitive in general, and it is nitpicking, you just can't judge anyone based on a single moment of their lives. Heck you can't judge anything based on a single instance, statistics has already shown that this is a fallacy. Anyone could be a complete ass at one time or another even though generally they're pretty good people.

But anyway, I'm still trying to figure this all out myself. That's why I started joining in the discussions, so really I don't mind getting called out on stuff.

Oh, Gilliam, I mean all we saw was a bunch of blood spill and a couple armor panels. You could think of it as something like a fruit that had all the juice squeezed out of it~ The skin is mostly still intact and in one piece, it's just a bit... smaller now, and less juicy. At least it was closed casket!
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Old 2010-11-03, 00:52   Link #347
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I know I'm late but jumping the re-watch bandwagon. I'm currently at episode 2, and I'll be watching episode 3 today

Last edited by sweetgirl121; 2010-11-03 at 02:27.
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Old 2010-11-03, 05:07   Link #348
Father Hentai
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
And saying that Alto only joined SMS because of Rankas singing is incredibly simplistic. There is a host of reasons why Alto joined. Wanting to protect Ranka, wanting to protect his home, charting his own future, not running away anymore, wanting to fly in a less limited space, wanting to fly the VF-25. And I'd probably find more reasons if I'd go deeper into Altos motivations.
Or to find a reason why he left his home. ... He broke up with his kabuki career and the only thing he grabbed at this time is to fly in the sky.
From what I see is that Alto has the heart and the will to protect but this is starting to focus within him. But the main reasons I see he joined, is because he needs a justification to leave behind his kabuki acting origin and as well as to find out if he can protect others with his flying talents. Just my own opinion.

About Episode three ... Sheryl half naked and tuna boobs. That's all I can say.
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Old 2010-11-03, 11:29   Link #349
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
About Episode three ... Sheryl half naked and tuna boobs. That's all I can say.
Alto didn't even try to close his eyes or turn away. He deserved that slap!
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Old 2010-11-03, 11:35   Link #350
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He did. That's also quite a smile Sheryl has as she covers herself up.
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Old 2010-11-03, 11:55   Link #351
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He did? He stared at her...for a while. All protagonists do. They always stare or never let go.
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Old 2010-11-03, 12:15   Link #352
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Well in the subsequent episodes after episode 13, where is Sheryl? She isn't well enough to start going making inquiries she's in the hospital. She's also not in the position to get this kind of information. Not only that but directly afterward they had to deal with the another Vajra attack, as opposed to episodes 1-5.
You're right. No one asks about the 33rd. More about that when we get to the episode.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Also it wouldn't take more than 5-minutes to ask about Gilliam as she could have included it in her inquiry about Alto.
Okay...so we add in a few seconds of Ranka asking Ozma to find information about Gilliam. Would you drop the plot thread there? Just have Ozma never get back to her about it? Or would you add in a scene where Ozma gives her info about him? That's another few minutes. And then you have to show her caring, or else everyone here would complain, "Ozma gave her the info, but she didn't DO anything with it!" So tat's a few more minutes.

Now, admittedly, I would rather see an episode about "Ranka emotes about Gilliam" than "Sheryl tries to get her panties back," but at least the latter had some kind of plot purpose to it. Ranka asking about Gilliam had none.

And anyway, did Gilliam really save her? He tried to stop the Vajra, and failed. He didn't pull her away from the Vajra, he didn't rescue her from getting blown out into space. Everyone's focusing on the fact that Ranka thought Alto was pretty, but there's also the fact that he DID INDEED save her, unlike Gilliam.
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Old 2010-11-03, 12:37   Link #353
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post

Okay...so we add in a few seconds of Ranka asking Ozma to find information about Gilliam. Would you drop the plot thread there? Just have Ozma never get back to her about it? Or would you add in a scene where Ozma gives her info about him? That's another few minutes. And then you have to show her caring, or else everyone here would complain, "Ozma gave her the info, but she didn't DO anything with it!" So tat's a few more minutes.

Now, admittedly, I would rather see an episode about "Ranka emotes about Gilliam" than "Sheryl tries to get her panties back," but at least the latter had some kind of plot purpose to it. Ranka asking about Gilliam had none.

And anyway, did Gilliam really save her? He tried to stop the Vajra, and failed. He didn't pull her away from the Vajra, he didn't rescue her from getting blown out into space. Everyone's focusing on the fact that Ranka thought Alto was pretty, but there's also the fact that he DID INDEED save her, unlike Gilliam.
It would have been good for character development for Ranka in an area outside of her interaction with Sheryl and Alto. I mean look at Alto besides his main interactions with the Sheryl and Ranka we also get to see how he reacts to to Frontier, ditto with Sheryl. However Ranka is the only one who you don't really get to see her react to her home in any manner after it goes through a crisis. It also would have been an instance of Ranka showing empathy to someone she doesn't know. So no I wouldn't drop that plot thread.

In fact Sheryl going to school could be explained simply her saying that she never the chance to do it before, or they could just explain it by her temporarily transferring there because she is 17 years old and needs an education.

Last edited by wisteria233; 2010-11-03 at 12:52.
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Old 2010-11-03, 13:25   Link #354
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
It would have been good for character development for Ranka in an area outside of her interaction with Sheryl and Alto. I mean look at Alto besides his main interactions with the Sheryl and Ranka we also get to see how he reacts to to Frontier, ditto with Sheryl. However Ranka is the only one who you don't really get to see her react to her home in any manner after it goes through a crisis. It also would have been an instance of Ranka showing empathy to someone she doesn't know. So no I wouldn't drop that plot thread.

In fact Sheryl going to school could be explained simply her saying that she never the chance to do it before, or they could just explain it by her temporarily transferring there because she is 17 years old and needs an education.
Obviously, I can't disagree that showing Ranka better qualities should've been a stronger goal for the scriptwriter than showing no-panty Sheryl.

But, for mostly better but sometimes worse, we're stuck with the show as written and produced.

There are what I perceive as two REALLY MASSIVE missteps on the scriptwriters part, but they're not coming up for a good long while, and I'll address them then.

In his defense, however, I doubt he could've foreseen a bunch of western fans running over Ranka's behavior with fine-toothed comb, more than two years after the show finished its original run.
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Old 2010-11-03, 14:09   Link #355
magnuskn
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Okay...so we add in a few seconds of Ranka asking Ozma to find information about Gilliam. Would you drop the plot thread there? Just have Ozma never get back to her about it? Or would you add in a scene where Ozma gives her info about him? That's another few minutes. And then you have to show her caring, or else everyone here would complain, "Ozma gave her the info, but she didn't DO anything with it!" So tat's a few more minutes.
It can be done in twenty seconds. You add a scene later on where Ozma and Ranka are at their home and Ranka says, with a sad face "I never knew who the pilot was who died for Alto-kun and me." Then Ozma puts his hand on her shoulder and says "Well, let me tell you about him, then.". Cut scene, next time we see Ranka she starts out with another sad/thoughtful look on her face, until things start happening in the current scene she is in.

It's really not that difficult to add a short scene which establishes interest from Ranka about the person who died for Alto and her and which then leaves the rest to the audiences imagination.
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Old 2010-11-03, 14:11   Link #356
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Now, that would not have been a bad way to do it.
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Old 2010-11-03, 14:15   Link #357
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It can be done in twenty seconds. You add a scene later on where Ozma and Ranka are at their home and Ranka says, with a sad face "I never knew who the pilot was who died for Alto-kun and me." Then Ozma puts his hand on her shoulder and says "Well, let me tell you about him, then.". Cut scene, next time we see Ranka she starts out with another sad/thoughtful look on her face, until things start happening in the current scene she is in.

It's really not that difficult to add a short scene which establishes interest from Ranka about the person who died for Alto and her and which then leaves the rest to the audiences imagination.
Hey, at least Gilliam got MENTIONED again, which is better than the 33rd or Raramia got...

Besides, Ozma saying, "Well let me tell you about him" would require a few minutes of evasion to let the audience know that Ozma is still lying about his involvement with SMS to Ranka, and thus really SHOULDN'T know Gilliam at all.
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Old 2010-11-03, 14:22   Link #358
Lancel
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She knows he works for SMS, she just thinks it's a desk job. I mean he's wearing his SMS jacket in that scene, and I believe she also knows where Ozma works.

Also episode 8 was just pure fan service and I share your sentiments on it.
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Old 2010-11-03, 14:24   Link #359
DeX-kun
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Hey, at least Gilliam got MENTIONED again, which is better than the 33rd or Raramia got...

Besides, Ozma saying, "Well let me tell you about him" would require a few minutes of evasion to let the audience know that Ozma is still lying about his involvement with SMS to Ranka, and thus really SHOULDN'T know Gilliam at all.
Raramia

It's a shame that she wasn't even mentioned after her death.
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Old 2010-11-03, 14:26   Link #360
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Hey, at least Gilliam got MENTIONED again, which is better than the 33rd or Raramia got...

Besides, Ozma saying, "Well let me tell you about him" would require a few minutes of evasion to let the audience know that Ozma is still lying about his involvement with SMS to Ranka, and thus really SHOULDN'T know Gilliam at all.
Add one line, "I knew him from my desk job at SMS".

BTW, what exact message are they trying to convey with "Merry christmas without you!"? That's one bad case of Engrish.

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Raramia

It's a shame that she wasn't even mentioned after her death.
Ah, you know how Zentraedi are. "She is dead, let's move one" At least Klan gave an anguished cry at her death.
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