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View Poll Results: Claymore - Chapter 109 Rating
Perfect 10 11 20.75%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 10 18.87%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 19 35.85%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 16.98%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 5.66%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.89%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-11-01, 23:19   Link #221
Ryus
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Originally Posted by FormerAbyssalone View Post
How much damage will the ghosts cause when they get 2 Hq?
The damage they cause will depend on a so many factors... here's just the few I could think of off the top of my head

A) how seriously they fight and if they're willing to kill or seriously wound warriors
b) How much time the warriors at org HQ have had to heal
C) how much the warriors have learned in that time period
D) the groups strength vs Miria's strength
E) How effective #10 will be now that all the ghosts yoki's are in the open and if the twins can effectively protect her and exploit openings she makes
F) If Miria is alive... then she can be used as a hostage. If this happens will the ghosts be willing to fight and what if the org orders an attack on the ghosts while Miria's neck is on the line. If she's dead how will her death effect the stability of the group and leave them vulnerable to #10's mindfraking
G) If Miria has been turned into something... can the ghosts match her power and that of the rest of the org and if not can Miria be reasoned with, and are the ghosts willing to kill a friend beyond saving
H) If the org notices Helen and Deneve are partially awakened they might hold back trying to capture them alive
I) if one of the other ghosts is willing to awaken some limbs like Clare did for added power and attempt to revert or be reverted later (maybe even willing to sacrifice herself for the others)... what would really be cool is if they attempted a poor mans soul link partial awakening (here me out they may not be twins but if Helen and/or Deneve pulls it off with Cynthia and/or Tabitha holding the soul/mind... then just maybe the partial awakened state of Helen or Deneve can relieve some pressure on the one holding the soul.)
J) Whatever Dae can accomplish in the short time he has before the attack and lets not forget this stop of his... it's possible he's already set something in motion
K) Whatever backup plans Rubel has or ways he can tip the scales in his vested interest
L) The number of single digits at org HQ... they'll likely not be a challenge to Deneve, Helen, Cynthia and maybe Dietrich... but could #7 lets say hold up Yuma or Tabitha
M) Tabitha... will she do something stupid or be manipulated by #10... A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords at dawn... what if she's manipulated and seriously wounds/kills her comrades before they know what hit them.
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Old 2010-11-01, 23:20   Link #222
Nixl
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
I never said it was wrong - nor did I intend to.
I only saying I choose not to participate in some theories - either because they are far fetched, been done to death, have 0 supporting or contradicting evidence, or in the case of anything related to Raki, have my rep hammered by anonymous Raki-philes (who constantly prove it's not freedom of speech they like, but rather consensus of opinion).
If you enjoy discussing a theory - great - go for it. That's what we're all here for. Discuss away.

Just because I choose not to participate in a discussion of a theory though, doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on it though. Just don't require me to either reply or agree to it by saying that "we all" believe something - for at that point, silence is agreement.

In this case, I disagree with the Super-Raki theory - I don't think it makes much sense for the story. Likewise, I don't believe that the story will move to the mainland. Those are my opinions, and much like the anatomical part some of you seem to think I am, everyone has got one. (And if you don't like my opinion, feel free to ignore it [warning: you'll be wrong ] - I won't take offense.)
I am not attacking the opinion Cyclone,that is not my problem, but rather your tone seems heavy handed when dealing with just speculation for the sake of fun. For instance,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
I only saying I choose not to participate in some theories - either because they are far fetched, been done to death, have 0 supporting or contradicting evidence, or in the case of anything related to Raki
From the beginning it seems you generalize certain posters or theories as wrong or stupid, without really specifying your own information. If this were a debate, yes I could understand that sentiment, but using this tone for speculation? I think it can potentially come off as a little insulting or "you suck", again I am not the offended party, but it does seem to make responding somewhat distasteful.

I am sorry you got negative rep though meh I am making too huge of a deal out of this, let's just get back to the chapter, my apologies for bringing this up. Again I welcome opinions, but sometimes I just over-analyze the tone or word choice. That is my problem really, not your's.

Here is one thing I liked about the chapter, I think we received a nice bit of character development from Galatea. Her line that she never believed in god is a nice display of her thought process, especially when seeking refuge in the holy city as if that would be the last place she would ever go. Also it does seem like Galatea separates herself from the ghosts or at least her core interests is in protecting the city. However, I was hoping the lack of scars we saw in the last chapter meant she was healing her eyes slowly, but surely. I kind of want Galatea to return to her old snide self.

Last edited by Nixl; 2010-11-01 at 23:31.
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Old 2010-11-01, 23:33   Link #223
An4rchy99
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Here is one thing I liked about the chapter, I think we received a nice bit of character development from Galatea. Her line that she never believed in god is a nice display of her thought process, especially when seeking refuge in the holy city as if that would be the last place she would ever go.
Oh the irony when this comes from a nun I think she just was saving her self in the most safest way possible, with covers on her. But she do seem to genuinly care for the children and the priests.

@Ryus

To me taking Taby to the field is very risky affair. Not only is she emotionaly unstable and unreliable as things are but also, this in turn gives another advatage for the org to exploit the #10's skills.
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Old 2010-11-01, 23:45   Link #224
Ryus
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Originally Posted by An4rchy99 View Post
Oh the irony when this comes from a nun I think she just was saving her self in the most safest way possible, with covers on her. But she do seem to genuinly care for the children and the priests.
I think, like Teresa, Galatea wanted to be accepted and loved. So raising orphans for the church as a nun not only kept herself hidden, for a limited time, but also let her get what she secretly desired... acceptance. God had nothing to do with her joining, only the life style of helping others and getting to be with kids.

Maybe she even viewed the charity works as a way to make amends for her deeds while working for the organization all this time. Not saying she brutally murdered anyone, just that she did unknowingly work for evil men whom would kill anyone for keeping power.

Once Agatha entered the picture she was very willing to throw away her life and everything she wanted out of that town in order to save the town that accepted her, knowing they'd likely vilify her after saving them and go as far as burning her corpse, if she died, for what she was. Not only that but she was willing to risk being thrown out totally blind with no way to support herself in the human world ever again... thus she might even have ended up living alone in a cave like Raphaela. However she accepted those risks at a 50/50 odds if every factor went the best possible way and the warriors worked with her to defeat Agatha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by An4rchy99 View Post
@Ryus

To me taking Taby to the field is very risky affair. Not only is she emotionaly unstable and unreliable as things are but also, this in turn gives another advatage for the org to exploit the #10's skills.
I fully agree and stated such... the problem is how does Deneve stop her from following without repeating Miria's "crimes" against them by not working as a team to the bitter end.
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Old 2010-11-01, 23:53   Link #225
An4rchy99
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the problem is how does Deneve stop her from following without repeating Miria's "crimes" against them by not working as a team to the bitter end.
If Deneve thinks she is ready to take up the leader role, this would be a defining moment for her. My speculation or safest bet would be to utilize Taby as the eye and use her to gather intelligence... from there on convince her that, she is not fit for battle, and promise her she (deneve) would take revenge for her, or such...
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Old 2010-11-02, 00:07   Link #226
Ryus
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Originally Posted by An4rchy99 View Post
If Deneve thinks she is ready to take up the leader role, this would be a defining moment for her. My speculation or safest bet would be to utilize Taby as the eye and use her to gather intelligence... from there on convince her that, she is not fit for battle, and promise her she (deneve) would take revenge for her, or such...
hmm... problem is I can see lots of "risks" the ghosts are taking. For example Tabitha might not be the only one at risk of being hit by #10. Dietrich too is in emotional turmoil and Deneve herself is a hot head prone to anger.

However lets focus on the attack... they don't all have to go in at once. Now that there is 6 of them they could do many things that Miria alone couldn't. Such as have Dietrich bring in a "captured" Tabitha as a ruse to probe the base under the guise that Dietrich found her snooping outside org hq... then rest of the ghosts attack as if the other ghosts came to rescue Tabitha. Followed by Dietrich and Tabitha striking once the whatever beat Miria is revealed (#10). After all if Tabitha is a "prisoner" than why would #10 use her power on her and not one of the 4 other ghosts "attacking". Of course Dietrich and Tabitha would have other options too, such as hitting the twins, freeing Raki/Miria, or even capturing Rimuto. I can think of dozens of other plans that have a chance or success even with things not going soothly for them and there lack of knowledge of soul linking and #10. After all if the twins could be held off by Miria without yoki then Deneve with yoki should dominate them too.
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Old 2010-11-02, 00:47   Link #227
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Just a quick comment before I go out. Now that I think about it it's obvious that Raki has something strange on his back, something that Dae and MiB can easily recognize. So I wouldn't rule the DoDs yet. I have no idea what it is but I'm sure it's visible on his back.
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Old 2010-11-02, 01:16   Link #228
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Originally Posted by Nixl View Post
I am not attacking the opinion Cyclone,that is not my problem, but rather your tone seems heavy handed when dealing with just speculation for the sake of fun. For instance,


From the beginning it seems you generalize certain posters or theories as wrong or stupid, without really specifying your own information. If this were a debate, yes I could understand that sentiment, but using this tone for speculation? I think it can potentially come off as a little insulting or "you suck", again I am not the offended party, but it does seem to make responding somewhat distasteful.

I am sorry you got negative rep though meh I am making too huge of a deal out of this, let's just get back to the chapter, my apologies for bringing this up. Again I welcome opinions, but sometimes I just over-analyze the tone or word choice. That is my problem really, not your's.
Yeah, I tend to not beat about the bush and call it as I see it. I've always been like that. On the flip side, what I say is exactly what I mean, and any inferances, tone(unless it's oozing sarcasm), and un-said implications, is generally not what I mean.
When I call a theory "far-fetched", I mean that to me it sounds implausible because of too many things happening which I deem way too unlikely. I don't mean: a) it's impossible, b) the theory is stupid, c) that I am condemning anyone taking part in the discussion of the theory, nor d) that the person making theory is an idiot. If I meant any of those things, I'd just rather say them and leave no doubt. So please don't read too much between the lines in my posts.

I've been following this forum since, what, chapter 78? and discussing Claymore for even longer. In that time, I've seen a lot of theories that run the gamut. There have been a lot of great theories pitched out there - that's why I'm still here - but there have also been others that were nowhere near as good. My preference is simply to discuss the good ones.
I have also seen some good topics - like Priscilla vs. Teresa - discussed really well with really great arguments, but saddly discussed ad nausium. There is only so many times one cares to repeat oneself, so discussions like those is probably best left to those who have still not yet got their fill of them.
Still others are unarguable - these are sometimes fun, but have the feel of fan fiction. A good theory requires not for the events it predicts to simply be possible, but rather show that something is likely to occur based on logical inferances from usually minor and overlooked facts. In a good theory, one can discuss alternate explanations of the facts and/or chime in with more evidence - either supporting or contrary. There's nothing really to discuss in a theory that amounts to someone's fanfiction.

I don't mean to be condescending to anyone. There are theories however that I simply don't care to discuss for any of a number of reasons. If my lack of enthusiasm or anything like that seeps through to into inbetween the lines of my posts, it's not for the purpose to insult or injure anyone - it's simply a reflection of what I feel at the moment. It's not directed at the person I'm responding to, but rather a reflection of me and my state of mind during writing. I mean no offense.
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Old 2010-11-02, 01:17   Link #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
Just a quick comment before I go out. Now that I think about it it's obvious that Raki has something strange on his back, something that Dae and MiB can easily recognize. So I wouldn't rule the DoDs yet. I have no idea what it is but I'm sure it's visible on his back.
Agreed, Dae knew as soon as he saw Raki's back!

@Ryus: I wonder if anyone thought about this... What if Miria pulls a Griffith. She is kept alive but while she is sitting there waiting for whatever things the org is planning 2 do. What if she becomes mentally broken and fully awakens? She would accomplish her goal and at the sametime become a villian. That could be a very good twist in it all.
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Old 2010-11-02, 01:23   Link #230
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Agreed, Dae knew as soon as he saw Raki's back!

@Ryus: I wonder if anyone thought about this... What if Miria pulls a Griffith. She is kept alive but while she is sitting there waiting for whatever things the org is planning 2 do. What if she becomes mentally broken and fully awakens? She would accomplish her goal and at the sametime become a villian. That could be a very good twist in it all.
You think she'd go as far as raping Raki?
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Old 2010-11-02, 01:51   Link #231
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You think she'd go as far as raping Raki?
Well Clare would have 2 be there for that 2 work!
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Old 2010-11-02, 02:18   Link #232
Verkruk
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Lame imo.

Blob meet babe.
Babe meet blob.
Ok now lets leave the blob.

Stop two morons from hurting each other.
Join said morons on a moronic quest.

Was nice to see how spot on myself and others were about Detrich and her past.
And sadly how spot on some were about it being all talk... and now we have to wait until January. Wonderful.
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Old 2010-11-02, 02:26   Link #233
Gooral
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We really need a FAQ/information glossary on this forum. We will have new chapter in December (unless there will be some catastrophe).
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Old 2010-11-02, 02:29   Link #234
Ryus
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Originally Posted by Verkruk View Post
Lame imo.

Blob meet babe.
Babe meet blob.
Ok now lets leave the blob.

Stop two morons from hurting each other.
Join said morons on a moronic quest.

Was nice to see how spot on myself and others were about Detrich and her past.
And sadly how spot on some were about it being all talk... and now we have to wait until January. Wonderful.

January issue not January. Ch 109 came out in the December issue so the January issue will be out early December so just a month away and not two like you think. For future reference magazines run an issue ahead, meaning the month of the issue is typically the date it leaves stores, not arrives in stores.

& you left out Raki mystery solved but won't be revealed to use until later. Likely they'll have figured out where his shirt is by then too.
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Old 2010-11-02, 03:13   Link #235
sonotme_9FedriqSama
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Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
Speaking of the spikes...

In ch 96 one of the spikes is sticking through his arm and out the other side (seen to our right of his abs)

Spoiler for ch 96 pic... size:

But in the spoiler pic neither rod is... and it's migrated up his arm to his shoulder and one of the rods is now on the back side of his arm

Spoiler for ch 109 spoiler pic... size:
Or they could be merging with him, seeing how his bleeding vanished...

----after reading the chapter I was right that that clump cotains Priscilla immobilized by clare...

I read the RAW and scanlation by MStream.....and I always wonder about this.....why do translators and editors always mess with Riful's name or gender....they either write her as "RIFL" or by pronoun HIM or HIMSELF..... Don't they read the manga.....or can't they figure out by the name itself that it is female name? or they must really hate Riful ....some funny editors they are.....

Anyways.... good chapter....seeing Dee cry was very nice.....

want to see what will happen to clare....
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Old 2010-11-02, 04:05   Link #236
An4rchy99
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Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
hmm... problem is I can see lots of "risks" the ghosts are taking. For example Tabitha might not be the only one at risk of being hit by #10. Dietrich too is in emotional turmoil and Deneve herself is a hot head prone to anger.

However lets focus on the attack... they don't all have to go in at once. Now that there is 6 of them they could do many things that Miria alone couldn't. Such as have Dietrich bring in a "captured" Tabitha as a ruse to probe the base under the guise that Dietrich found her snooping outside org hq... then rest of the ghosts attack as if the other ghosts came to rescue Tabitha. Followed by Dietrich and Tabitha striking once the whatever beat Miria is revealed (#10). After all if Tabitha is a "prisoner" than why would #10 use her power on her and not one of the 4 other ghosts "attacking". Of course Dietrich and Tabitha would have other options too, such as hitting the twins, freeing Raki/Miria, or even capturing Rimuto. I can think of dozens of other plans that have a chance or success even with things not going soothly for them and there lack of knowledge of soul linking and #10. After all if the twins could be held off by Miria without yoki then Deneve with yoki should dominate them too.
You know theoretically they got enough battle potential and skills to decimate the org purely power based. However practically I see them having problems. I would go so far as to say they have a high probability of failing simply due to the hot headed (Undine loving) leader they have now. Deneve is just too impulsive as was demonstrated by her innate ability to disobey Miria by helping Dee and also by being naive and foolish enough assumption they could have a chat with Isley . Clearly they are headed for doom. I won't say complete failure but we are certainly going to have a few deaths this time. I was really hoping Gala would lend them some assistance, at least in terms of advice and battle tactics before they left... but it seems Gala is neither too helpful nor have faith in them succeeding (as noted due to her unfaithful prayer )

stereotypes:
  • Deneve: hot headed / emotional wreck.
  • Helen: loose tongued / hilarious bafoon.
  • Cynthia: suicidal maniac.
  • Tabitha: Miria's shadow and unrequited love.
  • Yuma: Insecure and lacks a sense of humour.

My apologies for the crude classification of the chars... lol...
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Old 2010-11-02, 06:07   Link #237
irvinethearcher
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Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
Just a quick comment before I go out. Now that I think about it it's obvious that Raki has something strange on his back, something that Dae and MiB can easily recognize. So I wouldn't rule the DoDs yet. I have no idea what it is but I'm sure it's visible on his back.
That's a fact. And it is something which someone gave to him.
This someone is either isley or priscilla. There are no other possibilities i think.
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Old 2010-11-02, 07:04   Link #238
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a crazy idea: he is holding priscilla's humanity
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Old 2010-11-02, 07:08   Link #239
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Originally Posted by Cyclone
Fine fine - I will debate it with you.
The more important question that is conveniently ignored in that theory is why must Raki get powers at all? What's the point? Clearly, in terms of the strength, speed, and skill, all the Claymores have him covered (remember: Clare toyed with both Cid and Galk at the same time when she was a real number 47 [pre-half-awakening]).
The only thing that's required of Raki is bravery, kindness, and enough strength to be able to stand on his own two feet and not be mere dead weight. Raki's desired "protecting" of Clare will not happen at sword point fighting some demon that has even the ghosts outmatched, it will be his humanity that will save the day (after the girls take out all the other baddies the old fashioned way).
Wait wait, I wasn't asking you to debate it with me, I was just trying to explain that I wasn't crazy for the idea either

However, it just seems to me what appears to be inevitable.

Why must he have those powers? Frankly, I don't know; perhaps out of some simple desire to see him finally use powers that put him on par, or above, the characters right now so he's not, as you say, dead-weight. While everything you say regarding his humanity is true, as it's his benevolence that is his greatest gift, granting him these superhuman abilities does at last grant him the power to protect Claire from just about any threat, which has always been his greatest goal and wish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone
And, btw, how is Isley turning Raki into a some freak via some unknown process with seemlingly none of the side effects of becoming a claymore or an AE in order to get powers he does not need, simpler and easier to believe than Priscilla doing something to him to stop/slow the infection? It's not like what happened since the spike attack to when we first see Priscilla is dull and Yagi left it out simply to not bore the audience! He left it out on purpose - something happened at that time. He's hiding something.
Because Cyclone, all it is, is just speculation, pure speculation; it's even less plausible then the Rods simply not taking over him. We saw plainly from when he fought that Yoma in this hometown that he was nothing more then a prime human being; he showed no traits that were superhuman or anything that made us believe he was anything but the story's own Captain America.

I also already explained that Raki wouldn't willfully accept any such transformation because he wants to get the power he needs to protect Claire on his own; he doesn't want to take any easy way out. Isley wouldn't also dare try anything on the boy without him being aware of because, as we saw, he grew to love the boy Number 1, and Number 2, if anything went wrong, Priscilla would have his head.

If their is a specific reason why we haven't seen any flashback arcs to the seven years they had together, I'm all for it because I've been dying to see that since we first saw Raki seven years later; but I think it's simply because Yagi has not unfortunately done that yet rather then their's a specific plot-point reason. Still, time will answer that question for us I suppose.

In a way, I wonder if it doesn't really matter if Raki secretly has DoD stuff in him or whatever people believe; I truly believe him getting new superpowers is right around the corner....if not....then him ending up in this situation just feels like one gigantic detour to his quest of finding Claire.

Quote:
a crazy idea: he is holding priscilla's humanity
That doesn't even make any sense; Priscilla is holding onto her own humanity as we saw when she protected Raki more then once in her regressed form; she finally could hold on no longer and her Awakened persona emerged and began to ate everyone but him.

She still has her humanity which cannot be totally put down, but it's gonna take another strong trigger to bring it back up again.

---

It's an interesting thing to say Ryus, how it seems like their is factions growing within the Organization; I kind of got that impression as well. More and more, everyone seems to have their goals and interests in mind.

That could very well be Rubel's doing for all we know.

---

Roflmao Anarachy, I love the emocons you posted for the characters

---

You got a negative rep Cyclone? again? .

Sorry to hear that; I have long since been used to your Deneve-style blunt way of posting your ideas and feelings on matters, but I guess not everyone is yet .

---

Roflmao, Sonotome, those editors just don't care for the story really; reading such obvious stupid mistakes just makes me cringe; they wrote down "Abysmal One" for crying out loud, how do you make that mistake?

Shrimpy doesn't translate like he used to, so Gernot really is the primary guy for this story now; he seems to be the only one who genually tries his best and reads the story, rather then rushes it so he can move onto to translate something else as if he is trying to make a record for most number of translations or something
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Last edited by Shiek927; 2010-11-02 at 07:24.
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Old 2010-11-02, 07:33   Link #240
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An4rchy99 View Post
with pervertness or manliness? his harem awaits him now. only the gate keepers remain
I'm calling a harem end too! He has earned it if you ask me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
You think she'd go as far as raping Raki?
That was one of my theories, that Raki was raped by Priscilla and that is what is keeping him from changing. What's on his back are scars because Priscilla is a bit of a sadist.

Last edited by DragoZERO; 2010-11-02 at 07:41. Reason: Typo correction.
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