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Old 2010-11-03, 00:34   Link #81
velocd
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The combination of upcoming fights is ludicrous. This will be a long arc if you assume every match up against the zombies will have at least 4 chapters dedicated, assuming 1v1.. they may team battle, but like most shonen battles they usually focus 1v1.
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Old 2010-11-03, 01:03   Link #82
Lunarskylar
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whats with the color spread though, rasengans floating around naruto? oh dear -__-

other than that i lovedd the fanservice no jutsu this chapter. I support the zombie ideas because hell with such a large cast, might as well make use of them anyway possible

i will enjoyy this =D
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Old 2010-11-03, 02:42   Link #83
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Not looking forward to this, reminds me too much of the Pillar fights in Bleach. Cuts off every couple of pages, and i really didn't care what happened.
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Old 2010-11-03, 02:53   Link #84
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Originally Posted by velocd View Post
The combination of upcoming fights is ludicrous. This will be a long arc if you assume every match up against the zombies will have at least 4 chapters dedicated, assuming 1v1.. they may team battle, but like most shonen battles they usually focus 1v1.
As a Bleach fan who just witnessed the events of a "war" finally come to a conclusion after over 3 years worth of chapters, I can safely say, the thought scares me. Granted, Kishi and Kubo are very different writers IMO, but the fact remains, the present scenario makes it pretty easy for virtually any writer to drag this out for quite a long time indeed. So it should be interesting to see the pace at which this all plays out.
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Old 2010-11-03, 05:18   Link #85
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This was fanservice-no-jutsu-no and I loved it. Best chapter ever. I got the return of so many old characters even if they are zombies, the Konoha 11 returning, teams being formed, Shikamaru and Temari working together again on the same team. ShikaTema will happen! And the Alliance finally looking like an army. Everything was awesome.

It's ironic that Madara actually did what Naruto hopes to accomplish. He brought the ninja world together.

The fights are all there.

Naruto vs. Sasuke
The Kages vs. the old Kages including Gaara vs. his father!
Shikamaru vs. Asuma
Neji vs. his father
Sakura vs. Chiyo
Jinchūriki fights!
Hanzo fight
Kankurou's team vs. Sasori
Rock Lee vs. Kimimaro
Tsunade vs. Dan
Kakashi vs. Zabuza
and plenty of more matchups Kishi can throw at us.

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Originally Posted by madv2c View Post
Not looking forward to this, reminds me too much of the Pillar fights in Bleach. Cuts off every couple of pages, and i really didn't care what happened.
The Naruto equivalent of the Bleach pillar fights would be like Ino facing the zombie Kin(girl from Sound Three) and Kishi devoting a chapter to it. He won't do that.

Naruto fans generally love many of the secondary characters and welcome their return to the manga. With Bleach during the Winter War, people wanted to see what Aizen was up to and what was happening with Ichigo. With Naruto, the war is the only thing that matters.
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Old 2010-11-03, 05:42   Link #86
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Would be awesome if Jiraiya is revived and says '' i feared this could happen so i took preparations beforehand , i can control my own body ''
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Old 2010-11-03, 05:59   Link #87
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Lots of ninjas rezzed out there...Chiyo, Kimimaro, previous Kages, the Akatsuki....should be a long, looong war alright. Feels kinda right though, pacing is what will determine the success of this arc. Naruto and Sasuke have finished powering up, can Kishi postpone their battle without leaving his main characters in the margin?
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Old 2010-11-03, 06:21   Link #88
Cael
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Trying to make sense of the Organization and Chain of Command:

5 Kages: Ōnoki, Tsunade, A, Mei Terumī, Gaara

Commander General: Gaara

DIV 1 General: Darui (Cloud)
Midrange Fighters: Chouza, Tenten, Kotetsu? Izumo?

Captain: Chouza?
Captain: Hiashi?

DIV 2 General: Kitshuci (Rock)
Close Range Fighters: Kurotsuchi, Neji, Karui, Hinata

Captain: Kurotsuchi?
Captain: Raidou?

DIV 3 General: Kakashi (Leaf)
Close/Midrange Fighters: Gai, Lee, Sakura

Captain: Gai?
Captain: Baki?

DIV 4 General: Shikamaru (Leaf) - On behalf of Gaara (Sand)
Long Range Fighters: Chouji, Choujuurou?

Captain: Temari?
Captain: Akatsuchi?

Ambush Company
Captain: Kankurou
Members: Sai, Omoi

Captain: Genma?

DIV 5 General: Mifune (Iron)
Special Ops Members: Ino, Shino, Hana, Kiba, Tsume?

Intel Company?
Captain: Shikaku?
Captain: Samui?
Captain: Ibiki?
Captain: Motoi?

Sensor Company
Captain: Inoichi
Members: Aoba

Sensor Company
Captain: Ao
Members: Shii

Medical Company
Captain: Shizune
Members: ???

Recon Squad
Captain: Anko
Members: Tokuma, Aburame

? = Where I think they should or would go.

Close/Midrange I'm guessing is a mixed Division of both Close and Midrange not fighters who are in-between. Why divide fighters by fighting style? Why are Chouji and his dad in different divisions?

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Originally Posted by Fran~ View Post
Tactical vest for everybody, cause we were asking this since forever!...
Indeed! And about time. Another list to feed my OCD:

Leaf = Sleeveless w/Neck Protector
Sand = Extended Shoulder and Neck *Gaara appears to be an exception
Cloud = Single Shoulder No Neck
Mist = Extended Shoulder No Neck
Rock = Double Shoulder No Neck

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Originally Posted by Fran~ View Post
Anko will save him.... you read it here first
That would be awesome! I'm surprised they've gone this long without being detected. I bet Kabuto knows, but feels they are no threat nor the intel they collect. He probably means for them to be there, for one reason or another.
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Old 2010-11-03, 06:40   Link #89
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Awesome chapter. I'm glad we get to see some of the old faces again.
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Old 2010-11-03, 06:41   Link #90
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This was indeed one epic chapter. My only worry is that Kishi will degrade it into the ridiculous RPG turned based one on one battle we saw in Bleach rather than an actual war.
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Old 2010-11-03, 06:47   Link #91
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
It's not really cheap drama though. Specifically, Kabuto is a genius at information gathering. From his time as a spy for Sasori and Orochimaru, to the info given to Naruto on the various Akatsuki, to his knowledge of Madara's secret ("What's in the Box!") as well as Zetsu's, all these pieces of info were used at strategic times to influence and shape the Shinobi world. So, is it really that weird that he would use several emotional attacks mixed in with the standard barrages of overpowering attacks (Hell, even going back to Orochimaru, the main reason he summoned the Kages was to mess with Sarutobi, Orochimaru by himself could have defeated the old man, but he wanted to destroy Sarutobi, so he used Edo Tensei)? Nearly every single one of Kabuto's new summons (and several of the old summons) has emotional resonance with Key alliance members (Gaara's uncle; Shikimaru's teacher; Chiyo-baba (for Sakura?)); Neji's Dad (for the entire Hyuuga clan); etc) and with their respective village. So, in one move Kabuto can completely change the shape of the battlefield.
That's a very good point. Even so, I still can't help but feel this is a cheap way for the author to create drama, even if it makes sense in the current context. I'm aware it's temporary, but I just hate mass resurrections. Since Kabuto seems to be able to bring back whoever he's heard of... couldn't he just summon Rikudou sennin? We seriously need more explanations about the workings of Edo Tensei.

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Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto View Post
-Well I'll be damned. And I was just thinking today about how much I want to see Haku again. Well its not the kind of revival I had in mind but I guess its kinda cool. But am I the only one to think this Edo Tensei is far too powerful? I mean, Kabuto just unearthed roughly 20+ shinobi from the dead and he's not the least bit fatigued.
Haku and Zabuza's return is what bothers me the most, actually. I've got such good memories of their arc (still my favorite arc in Naruto up to this day) and their original deaths ; I'm very much afraid the upcoming chapters are going to ruin that

Ah well, no need to dwell on that, what's done is done. It should be cool to see Haku in action again, his jutsu was one of the best in the series.
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Old 2010-11-03, 06:56   Link #92
Poetic Justice
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I can't believe it, But Kishi has managed to outdo Kubo in lazy writing, I mean this is like the epitome of lazy shounen writing. You can already tell who's going to be fighting who and it's just terrible terrible writing no matter which way you look at it.

Reviving every dead character in the series just so you can easily give every old character one final fight for some purposeless character development?? Someone needs to give kishi a good smack in the head.
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Old 2010-11-03, 07:16   Link #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poetic Justice View Post
I can't believe it, But Kishi has managed to outdo Kubo in lazy writing, I mean this is like the epitome of lazy shounen writing. You can already tell who's going to be fighting who and it's just terrible terrible writing no matter which way you look at it.

Reviving every dead character in the series just so you can easily give every old character one final fight for some purposeless character development?? Someone needs to give kishi a good smack in the head.
How are you able to tell the match-ups though? For now, you can only speculate, seeing how diverse each teams' members are. It makes it far more obscure than, say, match-ups in One Piece. I could predict, throughout the series, with near 100% accuracy, which bad guys Zoro/Luffy would fight.

Your point is moot when you address Shounen. But I'll bite.

On your second point of reviving every dead character, I can agree with it to a degree, but there's also a quality to it. That is, what james has already abundantly described:

Quote:
Originally Posted by James
It's not really cheap drama though. Specifically, Kabuto is a genius at information gathering. From his time as a spy for Sasori and Orochimaru, to the info given to Naruto on the various Akatsuki, to his knowledge of Madara's secret ("What's in the Box!") as well as Zetsu's, all these pieces of info were used at strategic times to influence and shape the Shinobi world. So, is it really that weird that he would use several emotional attacks mixed in with the standard barrages of overpowering attacks (Hell, even going back to Orochimaru, the main reason he summoned the Kages was to mess with Sarutobi, Orochimaru by himself could have defeated the old man, but he wanted to destroy Sarutobi, so he used Edo Tensei)? Nearly every single one of Kabuto's new summons (and several of the old summons) has emotional resonance with Key alliance members (Gaara's uncle; Shikimaru's teacher; Chiyo-baba (for Sakura?)); Neji's Dad (for the entire Hyuuga clan); etc) and with their respective village. So, in one move Kabuto can completely change the shape of the battlefield.
Perhaps it may seem like lazy writing to you, but I see in this turn a perfectly reasonable way to continue or start the characterization of the United Shinobi teams by showing their ties/relationships to these old characters that we already know and have passed away.
Giving them quirks and depth without resorting to flashbacks is something I applaud. I loathe flashbacks and Naruto is already a flashback-heavy manga. How else would you characterize them? You would never see the extent of those ties between shinobi without lengthy flashes to another day and age. To expand on so many characters required a move that allowed storytelling to happen organically (ie team members sharing info on some of the zombies, opponents throwing jabs at the good guys or trying to turn them against each other) So, yeah, it was heavy-handed, but the subsequent interaction and exposition will only benefit.

Last edited by Frenchie; 2010-11-03 at 07:26.
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Old 2010-11-03, 07:17   Link #94
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Originally Posted by DeDe View Post
The Naruto equivalent of the Bleach pillar fights would be like Ino facing the zombie Kin(girl from Sound Three) and Kishi devoting a chapter to it. He won't do that.
No, the Naruto equivalent of the pillar fights is Kishi wasting dozen of chapters on Shizune vs her uncle, Kurotsuchi vs Deidara, Gaara vs his father and the jins vs their families in general while the ones with the power to win that war by themselves (Naruto and Sasuke) just chill out at home doing nothing.
And you know what. This is exactly what Kishi is planning to do.

There is also zero sense of threat since it has been made obvious Kabuto would spread his legs to offer A LOT OF secondary characters token wins instead of keeping his zombies near him to make himself a BAMF ala Madara.


There is only a semi-important fight here. It's Hinata returning the favor to Hizashi (who had killer intent toward her because he thought she sucked compared to Neji) by defeating him in front of a powerless Neji. And it comes from someone who thinks she is just a waste of space in every panel she is in.
All the rest has absolutely no value beside fanservice. The family / teacher fights are already overdone in this manga and adding at least 3 more is overkill.


Quote:
Naruto fans generally love many of the secondary characters and welcome their return to the manga. With Bleach during the Winter War, people wanted to see what Aizen was up to and what was happening with Ichigo. With Naruto, the war is the only thing that matters.
Bleach fans wanted to see the vice captains too. They started raging when they realized it would take years before the plot moves on.

It's the same thing here. At least 25 zombies (5 Akatsukis, 6 jins, 3 kages, at least 11 elite ninjas, at least 2 being cut offpanel). An average of 3 chapters per zombie, and I think the average will be higher than that and it will take one year and a half to reach Kabuto, who will have a special set of zombies for whoever fights him for real (Jiraiya, Sakumo or whoever) so that will take even more time.

Kabuto is the villain arc, and he'll die this arc since he has accomplished his only reason to be in the manga with the Yamato thing, but it's unlikely he'll get personally involved before 2013.

This is just not bearable and you'll see it won't take long before the forums start to rage and ask for Naruto vs Sasuke instead of "Tenten, Chouza and guys from another village" vs "an unknown zombie"

Good luck with your year and a half (if Kishi rushes things) of Shizune, Darui, Ao, Sai, Kiba fights before the plot starts moving on.
I'll have dropped the manga way before that if all Kishi has to offer is cheap drama and fanservice.

Last edited by Rahan; 2010-11-03 at 07:30.
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Old 2010-11-03, 07:33   Link #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
How are you able to tell the match-ups though? For now, you can only speculate, seeing how diverse each teams' members are. It makes it far more obscure than, say, match-ups in One Piece. I could predict, throughout the series, with near 100% accuracy, which bad guys Zoro/Luffy would fight.

On your second point of reviving every dead character, I can agree with it to a degree, but there's also a quality to it. That is, what james has already abundantly described:



Perhaps it may seem like lazy writing to you, but I see in this turn a perfectly reasonable way to continue or start the characterization of the United Shinobi teams by showing their ties/relationships to these old characters that we already know and have passed away.
Giving them quirks and depth without resorting to flashbacks is something I applaud. I loathe flashbacks and Naruto is already a flashback-heavy manga. You would never otherwise see the extent of those ties between shinobi without lengthy flashes to another day and age. To expand on so many characters required a move that would allow storytelling to happen organically. So, yeah, it was heavy-handed, but the subsequent interaction will only benefit.
Oh please its blatantly obvious every cast member is gonna be fighting those zombies they have ties to from their past. The teams being diverse will have nothing to do with it, It's gonna be 1vs1 clusterfucks for the next 2 years.

I'd say james is reading a bit too much into things, This is just a lazy way to make old characters relevant again without any need of thinking of any new subplots, Fanservice at its best.

And you seriously think that this won't result in new flashbacks?? If anything it will increase the number of useless flashbacks in the series.
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Old 2010-11-03, 07:46   Link #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahan View Post
stuff
I don't read Naruto just for Naruto and Sasuke. I'm more interested in balanced fights than I am seeing those two powerhouses going at each other. Not to mention what you're saying about Kishi is pure speculation.

I enjoy seeing other characters than Naruto. Team battles are lots of fun, and I expect them to be even more enjoyable in the context of a war.

The idea that you'd be uninterested by fights without Naruto in it is deplorable. There's only so much diversity that can be offered by the heavy-hitters, and I want to see some more bloodline limits and abilities used in exciting ways in battle before this manga is over, thank you very much.
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Old 2010-11-03, 07:51   Link #97
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Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
I don't read Naruto just for Naruto and Sasuke. I'm more interested in balanced fights than I am seeing those two powerhouses going at each other. Not to mention what you're saying about Kishi is pure speculation.

I enjoy seeing other characters than Naruto. Team battles are lots of fun, and I expect them to be even more enjoyable in the context of a war.

The idea that you'd be uninterested by fights without Naruto in it is deplorable. There's only so much diversity that can be offered by the heavy-hitters, and I want to see some more bloodline limits and abilities used in exciting ways in battle before this manga is over, thank you very much.
Where did I write something implying I cared only about Naruto and Sasuke ?
By now, people should know I never liked Sasuke and that I grew to dislike Naruto.

This doesn't make this arc more or less relevant in any way.
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Old 2010-11-03, 08:21   Link #98
Fran~
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Ok... just let's think how Bleach and Naruto could look alike:

Aizen= Madara
Kabuto= Gin
Ichigo= Naruto
Captains & ViceCaptains= Jounins and Chounins
Fraccions & Arrancar= zombie army

yeah... probably you can think that it's the same, but one thing is different, Kubo and Kishi's way too do things are different. Perhaps we would have pillars fight again, but the way Kishi make this kind of battles are way too different.

Just go to Kakashi Gaiden and see how Minato Team acts and how Konoha's yellow flash did things. I think that is the way Kishi will do things here. With thousand of soldiers and not only 1 on 1s.


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Originally Posted by Cael View Post
That would be awesome! I'm surprised they've gone this long without being detected. I bet Kabuto knows, but feels they are no threat nor the intel they collect. He probably means for them to be there, for one reason or another.
Kabuto is there only for revenge, he openly said it to Madara... he wants Sasuke's head, period. So i don't have any doubt that he is doing things on purpose to fulfill his goal.

Kabuto can't go and fight Sasuke knowing that Madara is with him, so, he helps Madara and pulls some plan to isolate Sasuke in the middle of the fight to kill him. So there is when Anko's team could be handy.
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Old 2010-11-03, 08:27   Link #99
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@Rahan, what do you like then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoeticJustice
Oh please its blatantly obvious every cast member is gonna be fighting those zombies they have ties to from their past. The teams being diverse will have nothing to do with it, It's gonna be 1vs1 clusterfucks for the next 2 years.

I'd say james is reading a bit too much into things, This is just a lazy way to make old characters relevant again without any need of thinking of any new subplots, Fanservice at its best.

And you seriously think that this won't result in new flashbacks?? If anything it will increase the number of useless flashbacks in the series.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't believe Kishi only does 1vs1. He does them better than team battles and they do often slowly disassemble to duels, but Team 10 vs Hidan/Kakuzu was an example of a team fight, as was Sasuke/Naruto vs Zabuza or Danzou's henchmen vs Madara or Team Raikage vs Sasuke.

Also, why is fanservice inherently seen as bad? Aren't you supposed to please your base?

I mean really, this is where you irked me: You said that Kishimoto was being lazy and/or stupid in writing his plot. You make it sound like anyone who likes this turn of events is just as brainless.

Users like Dede and many others have been very critical of disaffecting the original genin teams at the start of Shippuuden. Shikamaru might have been spared, but the rest suffered a big hit in terms of presence. I remember several people being displeased by the fact that the story now seemed like it was constantly revolving around Sasuke.

Now that the story has gotten around to more or less wrapping up the Uchiha vs Senju, we finally return to the teams, and, hopefully, see more of them, we finally get a great deal of enjoyment from the perspective of these fights and these developments (Which, I still believe, will feature shorter flashbacks than you would get without the zombies' perspective) and you get a few naysayers that complain how everything's gone wrong.

I trust what my feelings tell me, I believe this is the right direction to take and I hope to god that I do get those damn genin fights. I've waited too goddamn long for this.
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Old 2010-11-03, 08:31   Link #100
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I forgot another thing about Bleach's comparison:

Isn't like those battles where boring... maybe it went for too long, but the battles weren't that bad. Besides, in Naruto, battles can be even more cool for the crazy things they can do, isn't bankais and slashes or piercing.
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