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Old 2010-11-24, 23:16   Link #41
astayanax
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The problem is if the likes of Kankuro, Omoi, and Sai are capable of this, then how will the other fights go? Where will Madara and Kabuto's side make ground?
Pretty much. The zombies are supposed to be the 'elite force' of Madara's army and here we see them being taken out like an afterthought.

The one thing in the zombies' favour is they seem to be powered down. Deidara wasn't doing anything as crazy as he did Vs Sasuke and Gaara and Sasori for most part was standing there doing nothing since... he had nothing. Still though, I am having hope that the fight is far from over. There is still the additional zombie out there and the alliance really have to fear losing the war (which isn't going to happen if even the tertiary heroes can smack these zombies around like nothing).

It isn't far-stretched to see Sasori getting access of his puppets again and using them against Kankuro (or the very least to bail with Deidara).
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Old 2010-11-24, 23:26   Link #42
xPresagio
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Originally Posted by Fran~ View Post
Besides, Iwa Ninjas know everything about Deidara same way Kankuro knows everything about Sasori.
I did acknowledge the fact that some Iwa knew Deidara (not everyone) which would eventually lead to all troops to be debriefed about him.

What I'm saying is..even without such source, the alliance would still have the upper hand, thanks to Oro-Kabuto report. But who knows if the author will ever bring that back.

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Originally Posted by Fran~ View Post
It's like Naruto would face Kakashi (Wind > Lightning). An earth nature ninja is countered by lightning, even Naruto knows about that
Well, even Bee -whom was attuned to such element- was stunned after receiving a strong lightning (water as conduit) attack. So, the alliance should have plenty of ways to immobilize any zombie, specially when facing them in small numbers. Well, except for Pain or Itachi, but they will be reserved for the main protagonists..


For example: Kakuzu? Just hold him down for a few seconds and puncture his body with a lot of weapons. No hearts = no power. He cannot regenerate them if the artifacts are still inside.

So yes.. Kabuto is not (yet) using them as effective as he could.

._

Extra: Was hoping that Chiriku (the Fire monk) would have been among the zombies. Never got an official glance on this supposedly special abilities, and he was almost as famous as Asuma.
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Old 2010-11-24, 23:51   Link #43
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I think you're over-thinking the relevance of zombies... they are there just to provide some enemies to the Allies. Kishi is just giving us battles without any relevance. He will show some ninjutsus and some last moments sacrifices to save somebody. But i'm not saying that the allies will always win... and there will not be any KIA.

These battles are just warm-ups for the biggest ones.
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Old 2010-11-25, 00:02   Link #44
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fight seemed rush lol but Sai was cool nonetheless...
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Old 2010-11-25, 00:32   Link #45
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they already showed their devwlopment, askiing for character development when their a zombie is like asking the sun to turn blue. It makes no sense, they already had their spotlight....

Besides all these people exceptt tobi and sasuke will be meow mix to naruto now.
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Old 2010-11-25, 00:57   Link #46
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I loved the chapter, I'm a sucker for that Ittan, the Iwagakure guy. Love how he got the terrain to head back up to floor Deidara's bird. Sai's rape face was awesome.

Gonna ignore people complaining how the zombies are beaten because I don't believe they are as of yet. There's a sensor type heading their way, so I doubt the alliance will be able to hide or slip away.
I believe the bit where Shin gets freed because of that emotional connection he had with his brother, ie the picture, is a little cheesy. On the other hand, I don't see it happening with all the zombies, simply because that would contradict Kabuto's plans to use psychological warfare.

As in, I don't think Asuma would snap out of it via fighting Shikamaru, though I'd think he'd snap out of it if he was to fight Kurenai. This info (Shin released) will probably be reported back to Kabuto somehow, however, which means he'll probably tailor his zombies and nuke their personalities when necessary.

Also, yeah, Sasori is largely useless without his puppets. Deidara had bad luck that the team was so diverse. They completed each other's weaknesses quite well. Ittan knew of Deidara's weakness to lightning and that Omoi knew lightning techniques just sealed the deal. Kankurou did surprisingly well and I loved the chakra strings pulling down Sasori bit.

I still don't believe this is the end of them just yet, though.
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Old 2010-11-25, 01:05   Link #47
Luminion Lancer
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-So many people complaining that the Power of Love destroys zombies. Is that really so bad? Would you rather Kishimoto follow Final Fantasy logic; where zombie/undead creatures can be killed by casting Life recovery spells or throwing a bloody Phoenix Down on them? Cause if that's the case, just watch the Medical Squadron ROFLPWN the zombie horde or Naruto hugging the zombies with the life-giving Kyuubi chakra.

-About the chapter; as awesome as it was for Sai to get all pissed off, I felt the content of the chapter wasn't anything really worthwhile. There was hardly any emotional attachments between the loving brother and Sai, even though supposedly the love made the brother pass on. I can understand Sai not being so emotional but was Shin without emotions too? No tears were had, just a "Hello bro. Watch out I'm a zombie. Oh hey a picture. Well gotta go, heaven awaits. Kthx bai". I dunno, I just think seeing a dead family member would have had more "oomph" like when Naruto met Kushina.
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Old 2010-11-25, 01:15   Link #48
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Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto View Post
-So many people complaining that the Power of Love destroys zombies. Is that really so bad?
Yes. Yes it is.

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Would you rather Kishimoto follow Final Fantasy logic; where zombie/undead creatures can be killed by casting Life recovery spells or throwing a bloody Phoenix Down on them?
No, but here's an idea: how about instead of them being immortal zombies they just be normal zombies that can be beaten like normal humans.

Anyway, best part about this chapter was Sai finally showing some honest-to-god emotion, but the rest was pretty standard for Naruto. That's one extremely rushed and cheesy zombie death down and about two dozen more to go.
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Old 2010-11-25, 01:21   Link #49
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Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto View Post
-About the chapter; as awesome as it was for Sai to get all pissed off, I felt the content of the chapter wasn't anything really worthwhile. There was hardly any emotional attachments between the loving brother and Sai, even though supposedly the love made the brother pass on. I can understand Sai not being so emotional but was Shin without emotions too? No tears were had, just a "Hello bro. Watch out I'm a zombie. Oh hey a picture. Well gotta go, heaven awaits. Kthx bai". I dunno, I just think seeing a dead family member would have had more "oomph" like when Naruto met Kushina.
Actually, as explained by Sasori, Root members all underwent the same treatment of killing emotions, then pitching each family's 'brothers' against one another. As I remember it, Yamato had alluded to this already back when they were looking for the Sauce, but Sai had denied he'd actually killed his brother. Sai had never actually fought Shin, though they were supposed to, as he himself alluded to in the chapter. "The fight we never got to start-"

The book was most likely the only real emotional connection between the two of them.
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Old 2010-11-25, 02:22   Link #50
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I guess we might have overrated the zombies and underrated where Kishi sees Naruto's generation. For years it seemed like there was a huge gap between Naruto's generation and the elite players in the manga. The idea of the new generation passing the old seemed like a joke. But now that gap might have shrunk. Sasori is pretty useless without his puppets and lost his way. His greatness was the work he put into his puppets. Deidara, while having a powerful ability, can be rendered harmless due to one element. That takes him down a lot. That's too big a weakness to have. Looking at the Akatsuki now, Hidan doesn't look so bad in comparison

Still think the fight isn't over. I just can't see Team Kankuro walking away relatively unscathed.

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As in, I don't think Asuma would snap out of it via fighting Shikamaru, though I'd think he'd snap out of it if he was to fight Kurenai.
Kishi basically made the Asuma and Shikamaru relationship akin to a father and son. Their relationship was much more focused on than Asuma's with Kurenai. Which sadly was mostly an afterthought. So I think he would easily break out of it just like we saw with Shin for Shikamaru. And likewise for Hizashi/Neji/Hinata and Dan/Tsuande/Shizune. Kazekage/Gaara? Probably not.

But now Kabuto will take away their personalities so the others are going to have to work harder than Sai did. But the formula is now established.

Shikamaru will fight Asuma and some other zombies in a team battle with Temari and Choji. Beat him establishing he is beyond Asuma's level now. But then tell him about the birth of his child. Cue flashback to Kurenai giving birth. Shika tells Asuma he will help raise him/her. Asuma smiles and tells him he can now find peace and Shika will make a great dad of his own one day. Asuma then goes puff. Just change the players and something similar will happen for Neji and the others. I would be shocked if it didn't go like that.
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Old 2010-11-25, 02:36   Link #51
james0246
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Originally Posted by DeDe View Post
I guess we might have overrated the zombies and underrated where Kishi sees Naruto's generation. For years it seemed like there was a huge gap between Naruto's generation and the elite players in the manga. The idea of the new generation passing the old seemed like a joke. But now that gap might have shrunk. Sasori is pretty useless without his puppets and lost his way. His greatness was the work he put into his puppets. Deidara, while having a powerful ability, can be rendered harmless due to one element. That takes him down a lot. That's too big a weakness to have. Looking at the Akatsuki now, Hidan doesn't look so bad in comparison
Realistically...that was always true. Take away Sasori's puppets (and his poisons and mind control) and he's just a guy with some cut strings attached to his fingers. Introduce Lightning to Deidara's clay, and he is just a guy trying to make figurines out of runny clay. Nothing's really changed save for the fact that their own arrogance at their immortality has weakened them even further from what they were.

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And likewise for Hizashi/Neji/Hinata and Dan/Tsuande/Shizune. Kazekage/Gaara? Probably not.
No, it's going to be Kazekage v. Temari. She needs to straighten out the old man for all the shit he put Gaara through. .
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Old 2010-11-25, 02:37   Link #52
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Eh, I would think killing their personalities would be enough to prevent a love no jutsu from working. Killing their personalities stops them from being used as psychological trauma, so why would appealing to their emotions still work? The two Hokages were very clearly out of it against the Third. They didn't pause nor relent in their attacks.

What I don't want to see happening constantly is fights interrupted 'mid-stream'. As the Hokages were sealed, their personalities surged back for a moment. I think that's how the fight should go about, rather than a dialogue in between fighting frames. This was a good setup, but we need to see a clear winner in the fight before the zombies get love no jutsu'd or sealed.
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Old 2010-11-25, 03:28   Link #53
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Wait, so Azuma is automatically gonna disintegrate when Shikamaru mentions the baby is ok? lol. The author might as well skip all the fodder battles and make them fight Kabuto/Madara/Sasuke/Black Zetsu already.

They really should've just brought the true immortal back instead.
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Old 2010-11-25, 03:50   Link #54
Haak
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Defeated by reading a fucking picture book. Just like Nagato. You know what, screw this shit. I'm just going to say divine intervention did the work. That's actually LESS contrived than this.
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Old 2010-11-25, 04:06   Link #55
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Hey, I just thought of another of my crazy theories that I start but never lead anywhere.

If (when?) Jiraiya is brought back, how will his Senjutsu work? I mean, he wouldn't have to worry about turning into a frog statue, so. . . unlimited supply of Natural energy, maybe? Making him nearly unstoppable, at least until Naruto shows him his first book. Then it's his nappy time.
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Old 2010-11-25, 04:58   Link #56
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"The zombies are barely a threat?" Hardly. They're still invulnerable to most physical attacks. They'll still keep coming back no matter how many times you put them down unless you manage to immobilize them. They just need to be defeated the same way you put any ghost's tortured soul to rest. You must find its unfinished cause and settle it, which is going to be especially hard for defeating people like Kakuzu or Hanzo. I've gotta applaud Kishi for finding a logical way to defeat what was a broken technique. Naruto does not work like DBZ. Power levels don't win battles here, good strategies do. The zombies were by no means made into fodder. They were still a big threat.

The length of the battle isn't what's important, we got MAJOR development from Sai and Omoi and smart tactics with very powerful moves from both sides. That's more than most LONG fights get to accomplish. You don't have to stretch out a fight to make it worthwhile. You just have to convey a point, or multiple points, which happened here. These chapters did not disappoint. Using the enemy's comrades as puppets? Regenerating suicide bombs? Kankuro's chakra strings grabbing Sasori's own and taking him down? There was a lot of good action going on.
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Old 2010-11-25, 06:34   Link #57
Kallen4life
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what have we learned this chapter :
1) books (with drawings !) are THE most powerful thing in naruto-verse .. they can either turn The Dragon of the Big Bad to your side and make him resurrect everyone OR they can put an immortal zombies soul to rest and have him evaporate into thin air without having to fight him .. combine with Jesus-no-jutsu for max effect
2) Sasori and Deidara are fodder now - t'is a sad day


while some points have been brought up (valid ones) why Sasori & Deidara were beaten - I think it's still impossible to shake the feeling that they're still fodder .. they were top S-class, basically kage-level and now this .. so now I think I'll keep telling myself this to justify the rest of the horrible humiliating losses the zombies will surely suffer
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Edo Tensei is like that, Old Sarutobi could match, despite his age, to the most formidable ninjas from the Leaf. So this is not like it was unexpectable.
basically Edo Tensei makes them fodder


while there's a sliver of hope that the most powerful zombies like Itachi and Nagato will own the alliance - that probably won't happen, especially since they're both the more peaceful ones (well, their intentions) - i mean even Sais brother broke the hold



however, if this kind of fighting finishes quickly and we can go to the climax epic battles, then it's okay .. also if Sharinnegan Madara comes and blows everyone away with Shinra Tensei or some new asspull jutsu and Naruto has to fight him in Kyuubi+Sage mode




P.S. my point is that I want at least SOME of the good guys to lose or *GASP* die .. yes, die to the zombies .. this is still a war you know .. One Piece did this angle ok .. of course we'll have to wait and see for that, but if the likes of Kankuro and Sai can own Deidara and Sasori then I won't get my hopes up
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Old 2010-11-25, 07:19   Link #58
ronin myael
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why am i not surprised?! this chapter would have been decent except for that sai and shin moment. that was so predictable. if that's the only way these so-called zombies could free themselves from kabuto's control then he better hope that his zombies don't encounter their former loved ones in battle. if asuma should go up against shikamaru or any of his students then he's as good as freed, same with neji's dad and the others. if kabuto's purpose for raising them is to screw with the enemies' minds then it has badly backfired. i guess we all expected this to happen when he failed to wipe out his zombies' memories and altered their personalities.
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Old 2010-11-25, 07:32   Link #59
Kallen4life
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when he failed to wipe out his zombies' memories and altered their personalities.
I think he kept it that way deliberately to some extent .. but now the power of love, friendship and the will of fire will own him


also, if he made them literaly mindless zombies - they'd probably be genin level or worse
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Old 2010-11-25, 07:46   Link #60
ronin myael
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I think he kept it that way deliberately to some extent .. but now the power of love, friendship and the will of fire will own him


also, if he made them literaly mindless zombies - they'd probably be genin level or worse
he could always alter their personalities, turn them into heartless killers or something like that. i guess we all expected this to happen but i was secretly hoping that kishi could offer us a twist somewhere, make it less predictable.
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