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Old 2011-12-01, 14:24   Link #261
Demi.
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Then this would become a recurring theme in every series discussion thread, because each series has its most popular character. It's pretty ridiculous to bring it up every time a character gets shafted. We're talking about a five hour series being condensed into a 2 1/2 hr (maximum) movie...And it's a series where few things are of little importance. There is no way around shafting characters. Every character will lose some scenes, it just so happens that Yuno and Arf only have a limited number of significant scenes.
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Old 2011-12-01, 14:26   Link #262
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Old 2011-12-01, 14:27   Link #263
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The biggest issue isn't Yuuno and Arf losing some scenes, but Hayate and the Wolkenritter losing scenes. And, sad to say, Fate is the biggest offender when it comes to scene-stealing due to her popularity.
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Old 2011-12-01, 14:32   Link #264
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But why is that a concern when Tsuzuki never said the Wolkenritter or Hayate will lose critical scenes.

I believe I read somewhere that he even plans to delve a little deeper into the wolkenritters past, and Reinforce has more screen time.
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Old 2011-12-01, 14:38   Link #265
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Of course he wouldn't say "Yeah, we're cutting back on Hayate to focus more on Fate!"

Look at the first movie: It was more about Fate than it was Nanoha, and mind you that Nanoha is the title character.

It's possible that they'll give a lot of focus to Fate adapting to normal life. Personally I think we only need a few establishing shots of her going to school and being happy with her friends and not giving much time to the "getting used to the idea of being adopted by Lindy" thing. Her lotus eater machine could be cut or at least reduced.

Fate certainly deserved the focus of her changing to fit this new life, compared to Nanoha who stays the same attitude wise, but Hayate really should get the focus.
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Old 2011-12-01, 14:41   Link #266
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Fate or Nanoha being popular is not really a cause for why everyone else is being crowded out. The series post A's has consistently and maliciously sabotoged Hayate and crew, constantly downplaying their powers, reducing their focus, and stagnating their characterization. It feels like that for some reason, Tsuzuki and the staff have some kind of grudge against them and constantly wants to bury them. It's like they don't know what to do with their characters. If they're being held back due to lack of popularity, it's because they aren't even given a chance to be any more.

It's not that other characters aren't popular, it's more like they have no desire to put any effort to push said characters.

So blame the writing staff for a lack of creativity and burying them because they have no idea on where to take these people. StrikerS didn't know how to focus on, created more characters, and Force isn't helping the issue. Will you also insist the Force crew is burying the Wolkies too?

As for Yuno and Arf... lol. Well Hayate is lucky compared to them.
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Old 2011-12-01, 14:44   Link #267
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Naturally he wouldn't say Hayate's focus is being cut because of Fate. But he never brought up Hayate or the Wolkenritter being cut at all...So it is nothing more than speculation.

You can assume what you want with movie 1st, but it made the most sense to delve into Fate's childhood over Nanoha's.

At least wait for details, it's far too early to play the blame game when so little is known. I don't mind speculation but it doesn't really feel that way most of the time.
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Old 2011-12-01, 14:45   Link #268
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Yes, well, this thread isn't just about speculations, it's also about expectations. And expectations can be negative as well as positive.
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Old 2011-12-01, 14:56   Link #269
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They can also be one-dimensional and predictable. Carry along then.
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Old 2011-12-01, 15:00   Link #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
They can also be one-dimensional and predictable.
Just like the characters! Ba-dum tish!
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Old 2011-12-01, 15:02   Link #271
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Yeah, Demi, I don't want to hear talk like that coming from someone who gets bent out of shape whenever someone isn't mindlessly praising Fate. -.-
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Old 2011-12-01, 15:02   Link #272
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Just like the characters! Ba-dum tish!
That's so mean.

But yea, if I were to agree with legitimate criticism, I'd agree with the fact that they can't figure out who's the main character is, definitely is a big one. It sounds like they don't know what they're doing. Then again, they haven't proven to me otherwise for quite a while. :/

So color me skeptical about the movie, but I won't be too harsh this early in yet.
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Old 2011-12-01, 15:11   Link #273
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Yeah, Demi, I don't want to hear talk like that coming from someone who gets bent out of shape whenever someone isn't mindlessly praising Fate. -.-
That's funny because I see you consistently do that with most other series elsewhere. Which further shocks me that this even needs to be up for discussion in the first place.

I deliberately avoid most threads to avoid this kind of whining, unfortunately I'm too invested into this one.

But It's okay! I will definitely not reply to one of your posts again.
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Old 2011-12-01, 15:28   Link #274
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Of course he wouldn't say "Yeah, we're cutting back on Hayate to focus more on Fate!"

Look at the first movie: It was more about Fate than it was Nanoha, and mind you that Nanoha is the title character.
The first movie is not a problem, since S1 pretty much was Fate's story as well, just as A's is pretty much Hayate's story, Vivid is Vivio's (or Einhart's?) story and Force is Thoma's story.

Really, Nanoha has never been about Nanoha, but more about the people around her. Yes, Nanoha saves the day in the end, but the stories revolve around the people she saves, not her. Only in StrikerS does Nanoha have her "own" story when she suddenly gets motherhood thrown at her, and even there it only starts halfway in.
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Old 2011-12-01, 15:32   Link #275
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Nanoha had plenty of development in season 1 with her struggles to find an identity and decide what she wants to do with her life.

But yeah, I'm okay with how the first movie did things. I've said this before but I actually consider Precia to be the focus of that movie.

Not putting Hayate in the spotlight, or having her share too much of it would be a major issue.
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Old 2011-12-01, 15:37   Link #276
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
He mentioned something about the main character being the one who saves people from their despair, or something to that extent...
As long as it doesn't turn out to be a new Mary Su-ish characters coming out of nowhere i'll be fine.

inb4 Tohma somehow appears and solves the Book of Darkness incident all by himself xDU.

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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Fate or Nanoha being popular is not really a cause for why everyone else is being crowded out. The series post A's has consistently and maliciously sabotoged Hayate and crew, constantly downplaying their powers, reducing their focus, and stagnating their characterization. It feels like that for some reason, Tsuzuki and the staff have some kind of grudge against them and constantly wants to bury them. It's like they don't know what to do with their characters. If they're being held back due to lack of popularity, it's because they aren't even given a chance to be any more.
Agree, they're were downplayed and bashed mercilessly for quite sometime now, this will be more likely their first important appearance in years, and also possible the last truly important contirbution to the series the Wolkenritter will make so i'll hope they receive the respect they deserve.

Farewell, cloud knights...
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Old 2011-12-01, 15:41   Link #277
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In A's "one who saves people from their despair" would describe Hayate most accurately. She saves both the Wolkenritter and Reinforce from their cycle of despair. Yes, Nanoha did the blasting, but the one responsible for saving their minds is Hayate.
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Old 2011-12-01, 15:43   Link #278
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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
As long as it doesn't turn out to be a new Mary Su-ish characters coming out of nowhere i'll be fine.

inb4 Tohma somehow appears and solves the Book of Darkness incident all by himself xDU.
Shit, you reminded me of Rebuild of Evangelion 2.0 And now that the Nanoha "rebuild" is going into the 2nd movie, uh oh...

Quote:
Agree, they're downplayed and bashed mercilessly for quite sometime now, this will me more likely their first important appearance in years, and also possible the last truly important contirbution to the series the Wolkenritter will make so i guess they receive the resopect they deserve.

Farewell, cloud knights...
I can sympathize but let's not drown in emo yet (Guilty Crown is that way). Maybe it'll open up more roles for them into the future if the writers are daring enough.

Perhaps it'll just be the first half of a longer story! Ok, that is a pipe dream.
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Old 2011-12-01, 19:22   Link #279
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For minor characters with no bearing on the plot they're lucky enough to be even shown to still exist. I like them too but Alisa and Suzuka had no impact on Nanoha and Fate's conflict, and neither did Nanoha's family. There is nothing structurally wrong with reducing their role.
While this is risking going a bit off-topic, I felt Arisa and Suzuka's sidelining was to the detriment of the film. Their whole meeting with Nanoha, and that fight they had, formed a large basis for who Nanoha is and why she reached out for Fate. Cutting that undermined Nanoha's development as a character, in my view.

We all love our characters, but mains need secondary characters in order to properly develop. Without going into any specifics, anyone who gets shafted in A's means the group as a whole suffers. Nanoha is my favorite character, but I realize that if they were to focus extensively on her in A's, it would be to the detriment of the movie. This is Hayate's moment.

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Please don't turn the A's movie thread into another "Fate is shafting other characters" debate. She wasn't even mentioned this time, and already people are assuming it. Who the main character is aside, he might have meant that each of the three aces might have their opportunity to be the main character. He mentioned something about the main character being the one who saves people from their despair, or something to that extent...

Especially Kaijo who pretty much put words into Tsuzuki's mouth.
I tried to qualify my feelings in that I was feeling bitterly cynical today, and I fully recognize it may have sounded like I was putting words in his mouth.

But Demi, the feelings behind them do have basis in reality. We all know Fate is your favorite character, and we know how someone can get upset if they feel their favorite character is being maligned in a thread. We all like Fate, too, but we like the other characters as well. Given how the first movie went (sidelining Arisa and Suzuka in exchange for more Fate backstory), you can't say the feelings aren't without legitimacy.

I'll make you a bet right here. I'm gonna say that they will leave Fate's absorption and lotus eater machine experience in the movie. Out of all the things to cut to make the A's storyline fit, that's the easiest one to do. Also, Fate's "fitting in" that A's expounded on, will also be showcased fairly heavily, instead of just a short montage. While I liked the scenes, they should be cut for time.

If I am wrong, I'll admit it when the movie comes (if someone wants to call me on this in July).

But yes, I'm a cynical guy. And, rightly or wrongly, these are my expectations, ie, opinions.
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Old 2011-12-01, 19:24   Link #280
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Their whole meeting with Nanoha, and that fight they had, formed a large basis for who Nanoha is and why she reached out for Fate.
But we already knew that anyways. Might not be so good for some one who's never seen the series before and is going into the movie blind but we're able to fill in these blanks.
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