AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Nanoha

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-12-29, 12:56   Link #361
Takamura Mamoru
The Hawk
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Berlin, Fatherland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottocycle View Post
Wait, the trailer revealed at C81 hasn't been posted here yet?



RAKETEN HAMMER OH GODS YES
sdajioasdjiadiodsaudhuiqh2hudhasiuhd

DSIJOJASDIJSDAIJSAOIJADSI

ASDHIADSHDASH!!!!
Takamura Mamoru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 14:41   Link #362
Archon_Wing
Hater
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Being totally ebillll
Age: 30
Send a message via MSN to Archon_Wing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
They used the S1 OP song "Innocent Starter" for the 1st Movie trailer. Odds are, the Movie 2nd will have new songs, too. Which is a shame, because "Snow Rain" is one of my all-time favorites.
Well, for Innocent Starter, it had nostalgia value and was appropriate for the 1st movie. It was 6 years (at the time) and that song was one of the first things we heard from this series, so it had significant value.

Don't be long isn't a bad song, but it's just not the same impact and feels kinda lazy. I would have preferred a new BGM sample if they didn't have a vocal one.

Not a gamebreaker, but a bit disappointing to say the least.
__________________
What appears to be a moment for the helper feels like an eternity to the helpee.
Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)
MyAnimeList || Reviews
Archon_Wing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 14:44   Link #363
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 22
Well if it's anything like the first movie, they'll eliminate most of the trashy scenes on the side and make it better. But then again, we're talking about the guy who crashed and burned this franchise into the ground so no reason to be hopeful.
Reckoner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 14:46   Link #364
TheScarletSword
Befriender
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lalaland
Send a message via AIM to TheScarletSword Send a message via MSN to TheScarletSword Send a message via Skype™ to TheScarletSword
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottocycle View Post
Wait, the trailer revealed at C81 hasn't been posted here yet?



RAKETEN HAMMER OH GODS YES
This movie looks superb already! Especially the fight scenes. But I too am looking forward to the comics as well; THE MOVIE 1st comics were very good.

It almost makes me wish I didn't have to wait additional time for the DVD release ;_;
TheScarletSword is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 15:06   Link #365
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
No Yuuno in the trailer, either, which is a disappointment. I guess pictures of him sitting in the library (where he'll be put early on and never leave), wouldn't be exciting to put in a trailer.
But they could put in scenes of him fighting Vita.

Assuming there ARE any such scenes.


Well, at least we have Yuuno in Gears of Destiny.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 16:44   Link #366
biodude711
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: USA
Age: 23
Send a message via AIM to biodude711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Well if it's anything like the first movie, they'll eliminate most of the trashy scenes on the side and make it better. But then again, we're talking about the guy who crashed and burned this franchise into the ground so no reason to be hopeful.
I'm confused, how exactly did Tsuzuki crash and burn this franchise?
__________________
biodude711 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 17:15   Link #367
Akiyoshi
The Flame Crussader
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
OH GOD YES!

Graf Eisen is glorious indeed! and just as i tought, they reduced Laevatein's bulk but at the same time they make him more swift, elegant and serpent-like, i like the changes so far xD! Even Zafira and Shamal looks pretty cool(Badass Arf VS. Cool Zafira, i'm waiting impatiently for that one xD!).

One thing that i also noted is that Fate and Signum's moves were greatly retouched to look less cartoonish and a bit more realistic. Signum feels more like a skilled swordfighter now while crossing blades with Fate.

Great trailer, i'm glad knowing that i will enjoy this movie, even if the story is lacking, this trailer promises one hell of an action-fest xD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by biodude711 View Post
I'm confused, how exactly did Tsuzuki crash and burn this franchise?
You don't really want to know the answer xDU.
__________________
May 29 2010-2014

...4 yeargo, the day after never would be the same

~The ASFB~
Akiyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 19:25   Link #368
Kaijo
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.
Send a message via AIM to Kaijo Send a message via MSN to Kaijo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Well, for Innocent Starter, it had nostalgia value and was appropriate for the 1st movie. It was 6 years (at the time) and that song was one of the first things we heard from this series, so it had significant value.

Don't be long isn't a bad song, but it's just not the same impact and feels kinda lazy. I would have preferred a new BGM sample if they didn't have a vocal one.

Not a gamebreaker, but a bit disappointing to say the least.
Which is another thing I didn't like about the movie. I felt "Take a Shot" was a better piece for when Fate comes out of her funk and goes to assist Nanoha. Never knew what the other song was that they used in the first movie in place of it, but I didn't like it as much.

At any rate, we didn't hear Innocent Starter in the movie, so I presume we won't hear this song in the Movie 2nd. I think this was their way of kinda tying the 2nd movie in with the first one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
But they could put in scenes of him fighting Vita.

Assuming there ARE any such scenes.
Someone posted a translated comment along the lines that Yuuno wouldn't have *any* fight scenes. And if the whole Yuuno/Fate coming to save Nanoha thing is changed as the trailer suggests (instead, Fate meeting Nanoha peacefully in a park), then there wouldn't be any cause for him to clash against Vita. He only did the first time to hold her off so Nanoha could recover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by biodude711 View Post
I'm confused, how exactly did Tsuzuki crash and burn this franchise?
I wouldn't say it has crashed and burned, but I can understand the viewpoint of some. It's a subjective thing. I'd say it's more of a "selling out" than crashign and burning. For instance, the whole "putting Yuuno on a bus" thing; we can see it in this trailer. Amy gets a spot in the "credits" at the end, but there is no Yuuno. The whole rescue is rewritten apparently, so that Fate and Yuuno no longer save Nanoha. The movies themselves are a way of selling out to the NanoFate crowd, and that means quietly shunting Yuuno to the side.

There are other ways of Tsuzuki selling out, and while I don't agree with all of them, I do understand that he wants to make money, and milking a hardcore fanbase is one way to do that. That's why, instead of new animated material, he's redoing the first stuff. Gotta milk the cash cow as much as you can.

The Lieze twins (and possibly Graham's whole subplot as well) are simply the latest casualty. I thought they added a nice nuanced viewpoint to the whole A's saga, and to Chrono's development as a character.

Which makes me wonder about the Fate/Signum fight where Fate gets drained. Part of what made it interesting to me, is how Signum was faced with someone interfering in that fight; you could see the conflict on her face, that she didn't want it to end that way. It was a nice inflection of Signum's character. But if there is no disguised Lieze twin to ambush Fate, will Fate even get drained? Who would do it?
Kaijo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 19:33   Link #369
Demi.
Ass connoisseur
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post

The whole rescue is rewritten apparently, so that Fate and Yuuno no longer save Nanoha. The movies themselves are a way of selling out to the NanoFate crowd, and that means quietly shunting Yuuno to the side.
I still refuse to believe that Scene got nixed. I can understand if the movie 1st bridge scene changed its dialogue, but that's not the case...and it's the only scene where Fate really saves Nanoha...so if it doesn't happen, that whole bridge scene comment would be meaningless...Even if they met early, that's not to stop it from happening when Nanoha is ambushed by Vita. It would kind of make more sense that way anyways, since the timing of Fate and Yuuno was just too good during a's. This way, at least they're already near the scene and can easily get there in time. And it would also means that Vita failed to put any kind of beating on Nanoha it it doesn't happen...Which negates the reasons for a cartridge upgrade.
__________________

Last edited by Demi.; 2011-12-29 at 20:29.
Demi. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 19:33   Link #370
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Most of the "crashing and burning" though comes from the rather low opinions the western fanbase has of the new Force manga.

Nanoha is still quite a living franchise in Japan.
__________________
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 19:52   Link #371
green-link94
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: mid-childa
I just noticed but isn't that lindy at 1:41 it's very brief And easy to miss.
__________________
[url]http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic165338_1.gif[/url
green-link94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 19:58   Link #372
Demi.
Ass connoisseur
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 27
I'm looking at 1:41 and all I see is Signum.

Edit: Oh, but there is someone at 1:40 and I'm not sure who that is. Too blurry. She is wearing something that resembles Lindy's clothes, though.
__________________
Demi. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 20:16   Link #373
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Most of the "crashing and burning" though comes from the rather low opinions the western fanbase has of the new Force manga.
It's really more of a "tarnishing and diminishing" than a "crashing and burning". Not so dramatic.

I'd be more upset about Yuuno getting left out, save for a number of things. He is honestly not that important to A's, it's a movie with limited time, and I honestly wasn't expecting anything different.

Hell, I frankly wonder why they left him in the first movie at all. Raising Heart could have told her everything she needed to know about the Jewel Seeds, just as it already took over entirely as her teacher. It would take a retcon, but any origin for RH and plot device for Nanoha getting it would have been AT LEAST as plausible as "Yuuno just happened to find a modern Midchildan Device laying around in a ruin and it just happened to be perfectly suited to this random Earth girl."

That's the kind of coincidence that practically demands a lampshade-hanging or characters speculating about Destiny, God, or Conspiracy.

Is it more disrespectful to exclude a character from a story entirely, or to leave them in as a useless surplus wheel?

At this rate, the only love we can hope Yuuno will recieve is a new anime or manga series set in the time gap between A's and StrikerS, and perhaps more fighting games like Gears of Destiny.

I sure would like a retcon to his exclusion from StrikerS, but Gears of Destiny is trying to avoid any consequences that would deviate from how that series went down.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 20:35   Link #374
Amaterasu1963
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Jersey, USA
Age: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
I'm looking at 1:41 and all I see is Signum.

Edit: Oh, but there is someone at 1:40 and I'm not sure who that is. Too blurry. She is wearing something that resembles Lindy's clothes, though.
I noticed this too. She's got long green hair as well. Has to be Lindy.
Amaterasu1963 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 20:39   Link #375
Kaijo
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.
Send a message via AIM to Kaijo Send a message via MSN to Kaijo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
I still refuse to believe that Scene got nixed. I can understand if the movie 1st bridge scene changed its dialogue, but that's not the case...and it's the only scene where Fate really saves Nanoha...so if it doesn't happen, that whole bridge scene comment would be meaningless...Even if they met early, that's not to stop it from happening when Nanoha is ambushed by Vita. It would kind of make more sense that way anyways, since the timing of Fate and Yuuno was just too good during a's. This way, at least they're already near the scene and can easily get there in time. And it would also means that Vita failed to put any kind of beating on Nanoha it it doesn't happen...Which negates the reasons for a cartridge upgrade.
What you say makes sense... which is why I'm scratching my head at this. But if there are no Lieze twins, then Fate won't get drained, and so it's a short hop to the possible reasoning that Nanoha doesn't get drained, either. They may consider Fate popping in as "saving" enough, even if Nanoha isn't that badly hurt.

Yuuno had to heal Nanoha the first time, so if they plan to cut Yuuno out from the fight, then they can't have Nanoha badly hurt; remember, she had to get well enough to fire a Starlight Breaker. So, in the interest of cutting Yuuno out and giving more Nanoha/Fate screentime, they'd be cutting something that is very important to the Nanoha/Fate dynamic.

That should be a good, clear example as to what eventually happens, when you sell out to the crowd instead of focusing on the story, and what happens when other things get cut. The 1st movie was doable, since S1 had quite a bit of filler. A's doesn't. And I'd rather see new material, then to see rehashed remakes of the first stuff.

Tsuzuki is becoming Lucas, remaking his babies to cash in. Touching them up, and removing things that will ultimately make the fans go "WTF?"

Edit; and yes, it's Lindy. The scenes suggest they kept in the Book's link with Clyde's death. So at least that element is intact. But it's unclear whether Graham will appear much, if at all, and whether he'll have anything to do with anything. The whole reason Hayate could live alone, was because Graham was supporting her (and thus, probably able to buy/bribe any officials to not go "Hey, there's a little girl living alone and we can't have that.")
Kaijo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 20:53   Link #376
Demi.
Ass connoisseur
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
What you say makes sense... which is why I'm scratching my head at this. But if there are no Lieze twins, then Fate won't get drained, and so it's a short hop to the possible reasoning that Nanoha doesn't get drained, either. They may consider Fate popping in as "saving" enough, even if Nanoha isn't that badly hurt.
Well, Fate did not save Nanoha from Shamal, but rather from Vita. Which I'm sure you know, so I must be misunderstanding what you're saying. As for the whole Lieze twins...it is possible that Shamal will drain both of them rather than Shamal draining Nanoha and the Lieze twins draining Fate...Just speculation though.

They may not show Nanoha in the same state she was in the series which would be unfortunate...but Nanoha has to lose that battle one way or the other...I really don't see how Tsuzuki can work around that. And she'll need to be saved...Vita's not exactly one to back down from a fight she's already won.

Quote:
Yuuno had to heal Nanoha the first time, so if they plan to cut Yuuno out from the fight, then they can't have Nanoha badly hurt; remember, she had to get well enough to fire a Starlight Breaker. So, in the interest of cutting Yuuno out and giving more Nanoha/Fate screentime, they'd be cutting something that is very important to the Nanoha/Fate dynamic.
Remember that Yuuno is not cut out, he is simply not going to partake in battles. Standing on the sidelines as a healer doesn't have to be considered as combat. It can just mean he will not use any shield and/or binding teqniques on the enemy.

Quote:
That should be a good, clear example as to what eventually happens, when you sell out to the crowd instead of focusing on the story, and what happens when other things get cut. The 1st movie was doable, since S1 had quite a bit of filler. A's doesn't. And I'd rather see new material, then to see rehashed remakes of the first stuff.
There are a lot of good scenes I expect to get cut, but if Tsuzuki has any clue as to how continuity works, then that scene can not be one of them. He could have remedied this with changing just a few words during the bridge scene...but seeing as how they were kept in-tact it would really be illogical to remove that scene...Not to say it won't happen a little differently, though.
__________________
Demi. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 20:55   Link #377
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Again, I hope that the only part of the series that actually needed a do-over (StrikerS) gets an OVA remake that replaces the original in canon rather than being part of the movie continuity.

It's not like they could condense StrikerS into a movie. Not unless you left out the Forwards entirely and focused primarily on Fate investigating, hunting, fighting and arresting Jail while Nanoha deals with her sudden motherhood and fight to rescue her daughter.

...Actually, Hell, that does sound like a good NanoFate movie. Or a good movie period. Also a nice cap on the ambiguously gay duo-focused movie trilogy, what with the two of them being adults with an adoped child, and therefore a family.

In fact, I'd like to see that, if only to watch Fate actually do her job as an investigator. The Sherlock Holmes to Jail's Moriarty.


EDIT: Don't get me wrong, it would be horrible as an adaptation of StrikerS. But as a movie on its own merits, it might be pretty darn good.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 22:12   Link #378
Archon_Wing
Hater
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Being totally ebillll
Age: 30
Send a message via MSN to Archon_Wing
Quote:
Originally Posted by biodude711 View Post
I'm confused, how exactly did Tsuzuki crash and burn this franchise?
Ultimately a subjective metric since the series is still selling very well, but some folks such as Reckoner who I somewhat agree with believe that the series has suffered a bit of a quality drop and the series is becoming a cash cow. Key symptoms showed up post A's due to a very large cast with huge groups of people with nothing to do, and a lot of the characters which made the first 2 seasons entertaining to many got shafted. There is a fear that the movies are stripping away vital elements that made it good in the first place.

In general the despair meter (add all plus and minus, then multiply all of the multipliers!)
+1 Base (per season-- manga counts as one season each, the movies as a whole count as one)
+3 If you cared about Nanoha's classmates
+2 If you cared about Nanoha's parents
+6 If you cared about Chrono
+12 If you can't recognize it as magical girl
x4 You think it's a mecha now
+5 You don't like the new character designs
+1 every time you notice a animation quality drop
+18 If you cared about Yuno
+24 If you cared about any other animal mascot. (Whoops, sorry Arf)
x2 If you noticed their diminished role in Strikers and Manga
x3 If you think having to reboot the franchise indicates it's gotten too convoluted
x2 If you can't remember the name of newly introduced characters
x2 Someone was cut from the movies
+25 For every ship tease that you can annoy you
x2 If you ship NanoFate
-6 For realizing validated couples (only one!)
-6 If you like Fate
+32 You've written a fanfiction to solve any of these matters
x2 If it's romantic
+100 You like any member of the Wolkenritter
x3 You prefer Hayate
x2 If you realize her combat involvement post A's
x4 If you prefer Signum
x4 If you realize what happens to her on Force.
x256 You are Akiyoshi.

<500-- You are not in despair. Keep watching and enjoying!
1000- A few things annoy you, but it's still very enjoyable
3000- Many things annoy you, but it can be tolerated despite its problems
7000- You are troubled about this series
10000- You most likely complain daily in a certain thread about some axe to grind
20000+- Zetsubou DA!

This is obviously in jest, but...
__________________
What appears to be a moment for the helper feels like an eternity to the helpee.
Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)
MyAnimeList || Reviews

Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2011-12-29 at 22:38.
Archon_Wing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 23:09   Link #379
Key Board
Donut
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
I think there's only so many things you can do when you have no more ideas for old characters and new characters keep coming in

1) kill off the old characters
2) retire them
3) insist on having them tag along

option 1 is risky and may have unintended effects
option 3 only mitigates their insignificance, but does not erase it.
There's a popular sound novel called Umineko. The first half was made into an anime last year. The weird thing about this series is they kept adding new characters with each new game, and because of the nature of the story, no one can die permanently. By the last game it was quite a crowded game, but in the end only the core characters matter. Secondary characters remain secondary no matter how they insist on returning.

And that does not just extend to secondary characters. I think the Nanoha's author loves the world he has built, but what he really wants to do is let Nanoha and Fate retire, and start a new story. They're just.. there

But he can't do that because they are bloody popular

It's like Kojima and Solid Snake all over again.


... changing topics..

Yet at the same time, I think what Nanoha stands for is interesting. She is a 25 something, career magical girl.. err.. woman.

Beam spam aside, what is your typical magical girl, really? It's an alter ego.. the personification of a young girl's youth and innocence. And when your typical magical girl journey ends, she goes back to being a normal school girl and is happy about it; because while they miss being magical girl every now and then, it's the normalcy of life what they really want. With Nanoha, it's completely reversed. She has decided since she was 10 that being a magical girl is going to be her DAY JOB. It's more even more pronounced in the movie manga, where Nanoha literally goes into hysterics from being a boring normal girl. Your typical magical girl is Spiderman. The costume is the alter ego. Nanoha is Clark Kent. The costume IS what she is.


What's another staple of magical girls? When they grow older, their magic power fades. No, that's not just in Strike Witches. It's actually rather common. But that does not apply to Nanoha; she dares to continue being one even after graduating from middle-school and is still going strong.

That's why, even if she hasn't developed her character much recently, I'm still curious to see how far Nanoha will go. If just for her being a symbolic middle finger to traditional magical girl values
__________________

-- Mushoku Tensei. on the dangers of osananajimi attachment

Last edited by Key Board; 2011-12-29 at 23:31.
Key Board is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-29, 23:48   Link #380
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
I think there's only so many things you can do when you have no more ideas for old characters and new characters keep coming in
Well first of all, you don't need to bring in new characters like the Forwards, and we certainly didn't need twelve combat cyborgs, especially when when we had one Dark Magical Girl and her pet Kamen Rider, a Zombie Knight, Three Conspiratorial Brains, a Corrupt General and his corrupt niece/aide, a Brainwashed Crystal Dragon Jesus Clone, a Super Dreadnought Battleship, and a Mad Scientist.

And that's not even getting into all of the other "good guys" introduced.


Second of all, I don't see why they couldn't make a story about Fate having a sort of forensic / investigative / crime procedural story arc as part of a larger story (like Jail's Unlimited Desire plan) where she tracks down a villain, puzzling out his master plan and figuring out how to draw him out and trap him so that she can arrest him.

Hayate could have a story arc in which she plays political speed chess against her corrupt superior, Regius Grantz, who is not only working to foil Fate's investigation, but also attempting to find suitable cause to shut her section down, and carry out his own Einherjar program.

The "Nanoha deals with unexpected adoptive motherhood" story was suitably explored, so lets look at another possiblity. For example, Nanoha might be caught in a conflict of interest as she trains cadets who are slated for the Navy or Air Forces, but whom are being tempted to join the Ground Forces with offers that she knows (through Hayate and Fate) are no good, but she can't offer the evidence that would convince her students.

In short, Nanoha's students become her surrogate children, and she has to fight to protect them against the more unscrupulous elements of the TSAB without being wildly favoritive of any particular Branch, and without any hard evidence.

Nanoha might also have a very talented problem student, whom soaks up her tactical training like a sponge, but whom utterly rejects her compassionate philosophy of combat for a more ruthless "Shoot First and Ask Questions Never" attitude. How does Nanoha teach this child without unleashing a better-trained monster upon the world, especially when the student is being headhunted by the worst elements of the Bureau?

Seriously, it doesn't take THAT much creativity to find new drama to mine with the Three Aces, given the world that StrikerS sets up for us. Hell, even given the world that A's brought us.

And that's just the three Aces.

Lindy, Chrono, Amy and Arf could be dealing with corruption within the Navy, international disputes, pirates and threats against the twins.

Yuuno's story potential is wider yet, covering the fuller story of his discovery of Raising Heart and any shocking twist you want to throw in there, his unexplained and strange relationship with his Clan, whether or not his Clan disappeared and became presumed dead, and if nothing else Yuuno or his Clan might dig up ANOTHER Lost Logia.

The Wolkenritter might find themselves facing internal Bureau rivalries with mages who lost family and friends to the same incident that killed Clyde Hallahoun, and those whom respect Gil Graham.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.