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Old 2011-12-30, 00:31   Link #381
Kaijo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
What's another staple of magical girls? When they grow older, their magic power fades. No, that's not just in Strike Witches. It's actually rather common. But that does not apply to Nanoha; she dares to continue being one even after graduating from middle-school and is still going strong.

That's why, even if she hasn't developed her character much recently, I'm still curious to see how far Nanoha will go. If just for her being a symbolic middle finger to traditional magical girl values
This is going a bit off topic, but this is precisely why I like Nanoha.

Magical Girl anime, like any other genre, is evolving. To dislike it because it isn't Sailor Moon, and Sailor Moon is the definitive Magical Girl anime, is to piss on Magical Witch Sally, who arguably started the genre. Sailor Moon evolved it. Nanoha is evolving it. It's folly to expect things to remain static.

I like seeing universes change and grow. I like seeing my characters grow up, seeing how they act as adults. Also, I like seeing the universe expand. That's why I liked StrikerS. Even if it fumbled a bit due to all the new characters, I still felt it did a decent job doing what it set out to do. I think that's why a lot of people here love this series; for the universe it created (witness the character creation thread).

So I like Force (and to a lesser extent, Vivid) for continuing to evolve the franchise. It's not mecha, and it may not even be considered magical girl by some; it defies classification, and that can make some people nervous. We like being able to put things in nice, neat boxes, with nice, neat labels. Nanoha dares to break out of that and tweak expectations.

How does all this fit into the A's movie? Because it's a rehash. It's not a continuation. It doesn't evolve the franchise. It sits, stagnate. It redoes old ground, adding nothing, except a desire to cash in. As I said before, I can't blame Tsuzuki, because he wants to make money. Seven Arcs wants to make money.

It makes me a bit worried for the StrikerS movie. I actually think it'll end up being two movies (a part 1 and part 2), but that Teana, Subaru, Erio, and Caro will be downplayed to focus on the Nanoha/Fate/Vivio dynamic.

Anyway, I don't think the franchise is crashing and burning, or even going downhill. As long as it continues to evolve and showcase the cast growing older, expanding the universe, then I'll always consider it to be going along strong. Even if we do have horribly mashed and cut movies occasionally, heh.
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Old 2011-12-30, 00:33   Link #382
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tl;dr Tsuzuki has no imagination?

Well A's was great and I quite enjoyed the first season...It went down, down hill from there. Though StrikerS still had its merits...I can't say I liked it for the excess characters or the story...
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Old 2011-12-30, 00:47   Link #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I like seeing my characters grow up, seeing how they act as adults.
Like treating marriage as just one more step in a romantic story, rather than the absolute end?

Couples don't stop having disagreements and fights and heart-warming drama -- they do not become UNINTERESTING -- just because they tied the knot. And that's before they have KIDS, which introduces new sources of drama and conflict!
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Old 2011-12-30, 01:52   Link #384
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
tl;dr Tsuzuki has no imagination?
Actually, I'd say he's great with his imaginations.

I can't speak for everyone here, but I've always enjoyed the (new) characters he's created, the worldbuilding of his little baby Nanohaverse, the interaction between the characters, the battles... stuff like that. I also feel that he's good at making cliche-ish things not overly cliche... most of the time.

Thing is though... he's putting all of those things I've mentioned above as purely supplementaries to the franchise. Sound Stage, manga, games, etc. ( except battles, but what else are they doing with the movie budget if not loli fanservice and bling bling? )

The flagship of Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, has for worse ( or better for those who feel otherwise )... still unable to escape the massive popularity driven by Nanoha and Fate.

And looking at ViviD and Force tells me one thing about Tsuzuki's current opinion on Nanoha/Fate...

He's a bit lost or at least, indecisive on where to take Nanoha and Fate further ahead into the franchise... or at least just their late 20s.
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Old 2011-12-30, 05:04   Link #385
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I don't know if anyone noticed, but even Chrono got a new outfit

It seems to be a cross between his old non-Enforcer navy outfit and the StrikerS admiral one without the fancy shoulders.
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Old 2011-12-30, 05:51   Link #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Actually, I'd say he's great with his imaginations.

I can't speak for everyone here, but I've always enjoyed the (new) characters he's created, the worldbuilding of his little baby Nanohaverse, the interaction between the characters, the battles... stuff like that. I also feel that he's good at making cliche-ish things not overly cliche... most of the time.

Thing is though... he's putting all of those things I've mentioned above as purely supplementaries to the franchise. Sound Stage, manga, games, etc. ( except battles, but what else are they doing with the movie budget if not loli fanservice and bling bling? )

The flagship of Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, has for worse ( or better for those who feel otherwise )... still unable to escape the massive popularity driven by Nanoha and Fate.

And looking at ViviD and Force tells me one thing about Tsuzuki's current opinion on Nanoha/Fate...

He's a bit lost or at least, indecisive on where to take Nanoha and Fate further ahead into the franchise... or at least just their late 20s.
You might not be speaking for everyone, but you're definitely speaking for me on this.

I too like most of the things I've seen, read or heard regarding Nanoha. Are there flaws? Sure, but so far these flaws have yet to ruin my enjoyment of the franchise.
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Old 2011-12-30, 10:26   Link #387
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Last thig he can do: make battle of aces and gears of destiny the movie after the 2nd A's...

Anyway... I guess those twins will show up... Or if not... The book slowly floats, turns around the Wolkenritter... Bind them and suck out their linker cores.... And the book's chains shatters and reveals Reinforce (and much later... Hayate calms the rampaging book)
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Old 2011-12-30, 12:36   Link #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
At any rate, we didn't hear Innocent Starter in the movie, so I presume we won't hear this song in the Movie 2nd. I think this was their way of kinda tying the 2nd movie in with the first one.
If this infor is of some use Innocent Starter do appeared in MOVIE 1st as an instrumental BGM xD I hope to hear one based on Eternal Blaze here xD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
In general the despair meter (add all plus and minus, then multiply all of the multipliers!)
+1 Base (per season-- manga counts as one season each, the movies as a whole count as one)
+3 If you cared about Nanoha's classmates
+2 If you cared about Nanoha's parents
+6 If you cared about Chrono
+12 If you can't recognize it as magical girl
x4 You think it's a mecha now
+5 You don't like the new character designs
+1 every time you notice a animation quality drop
+18 If you cared about Yuno
+24 If you cared about any other animal mascot. (Whoops, sorry Arf)
x2 If you noticed their diminished role in Strikers and Manga
x3 If you think having to reboot the franchise indicates it's gotten too convoluted
x2 If you can't remember the name of newly introduced characters
x2 Someone was cut from the movies
+25 For every ship tease that you can annoy you
x2 If you ship NanoFate
-6 For realizing validated couples (only one!)
-6 If you like Fate
+32 You've written a fanfiction to solve any of these matters
x2 If it's romantic
+100 You like any member of the Wolkenritter
x3 You prefer Hayate
x2 If you realize her combat involvement post A's
x4 If you prefer Signum
x4 If you realize what happens to her on Force.
x256 You are Akiyoshi.

<500-- You are not in despair. Keep watching and enjoying!
1000- A few things annoy you, but it's still very enjoyable
3000- Many things annoy you, but it can be tolerated despite its problems
7000- You are troubled about this series
10000- You most likely complain daily in a certain thread about some axe to grind
20000+- Zetsubou DA!

This is obviously in jest, but...
Ahahaha ...LOL! Nice table Archon xD!

For those curious i've summed 2,075,576 xD! (8096 without my magnificent bonus xDU). I should be searching for a rope i guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
I think there's only so many things you can do when you have no more ideas for old characters and new characters keep coming in

1) kill off the old characters
2) retire them
3) insist on having them tag along

option 1 is risky and may have unintended effects
option 3 only mitigates their insignificance, but does not erase it.
Kill characters isn't necessary a bad move as long as you tought well how to execute them. Heroic Sacrific and Sacrificial Lion/Goat are the most common options for an action series but as cliche as those are can be well handled. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a milestone example for that, practically any main and support character who bites the dust in the series does so in a manner you could inly cheer for them! Kittan ironically becomes immortal just after dying because of how freaking awesome his death was xD! Not to mention Kamina who is one of the most remembered deaths in all of anime in recent years. So yeah, i believe in killing characters as a good mean to let them go with dignity.

Retire them is a bit more complicated but not necessarily bad, the character can do one last notable act or leave a legacy before retiring to a more pacefull life(kind of a reward for his/her years of work and sacrifice). that also make chances of allow the audience to fully focus on new stuff and also keep the character fresh and cool for a possible cameo/return in a "Retired Badass" scenario.

Keeping characters hanging around and being punching bags it's the worst of the three descicions, i'm of the idea that if the writer is tired of a character but don't want to get rid of it it's better to put the character to rest than just having it there receiving beatings for the sake of "doing something" XDU.

Back with the MOVIE i think i'll take the approach i used with MOVIE 1st: To see it as complementary to the original 2nd season, the movies are alternate universe but that's not change the fact that those cover material complementary to the stories of the main timeline. Fate's backstory in MOVIE 1st and Nanoha's one in the Movie manga are good adaptation that actually give some good support to the justification for their personalities and desires. Hope Hayate and The Wolkenritter backstory also works well in this regard.

Unfortunately is difficult to write individual developement for the Wolkenritter becuase Tsuzuki portray the "family dynamic" as their main gimmick so most of their developement drives in their efforts to rise togheter and support each other which is fine, i like their dynamic very much but i hope to see some good developement for their separate and unique selves sometimes.
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Old 2011-12-30, 17:08   Link #389
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Just saw the trailer...and I'm seriously disappointed. Again.

I shouldn't be surprised, of course. The movies are made for the fan bases that are filled with so many fan-tards that care little about characters that don't add to their, "OMG, NanoFate forever, yuri pairing get! Durhur!"
I saw no Arf or Yuuno, either. Or Zafira.
Wow.
Way to go, movie makers. T_T;

Feel free to get offended. It really lets me know that you're not one of those I mentioned.
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Old 2011-12-30, 17:24   Link #390
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Originally Posted by Lycodrake View Post
I saw no Arf or Zafira.
Maybe you should re-watch the trailer and actually put in the effort to open your eyes this time. Just a thought.
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Old 2011-12-30, 17:27   Link #391
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Just a thought. Maybe you should watch the trailer again and actually put in the effort to open your eyes this time.
Second person to tell me this, actually, but...
Watching it again might send me into a rant. Which I'm trying to avoid.
So I was wrong, and Arf and Zafira showed up. My point still stands in regards to Yuuno.
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Old 2011-12-30, 21:10   Link #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycodrake View Post
Just saw the trailer...and I'm seriously disappointed. Again.

I shouldn't be surprised, of course. The movies are made for the fan bases that are filled with so many fan-tards that care little about characters that don't add to their, "OMG, NanoFate forever, yuri pairing get! Durhur!"
I saw no Arf or Yuuno, either. Or Zafira.
Wow.
Way to go, movie makers. T_T;

Feel free to get offended. It really lets me know that you're not one of those I mentioned.
Feel free to dislike the trailer or dismiss this new AU with only one movie out; I wasn't impressed either. But watch with the generalizations. There's at least one poster in this thread that wasn't impressed with the series but enjoyed the movie better for being more concise and focusing more on the action oriented elements that define the series. So it's not just for said fantards.

Although I am a fan of Fate (not necessarily NanoFate as romantic shipping in this series is a joke) which may have caused me to rate the movie a point higher than it should be. It's missing things and isn't perfect-- some cuts Movie 1st made were really bad especially in regards to Yuno, but some actual criticism over some generic pandering rant would allow people to take you more seriously. Kaijo had previously espoused similar ideas, but in a far more respectful manner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
If this infor is of some use Innocent Starter do appeared in MOVIE 1st as an instrumental BGM xD I hope to hear one based on Eternal Blaze here xD!



Ahahaha ...LOL! Nice table Archon xD!

For those curious i've summed 2,075,576 xD! (8096 without my magnificent bonus xDU). I should be searching for a rope i guess.
Lol, said test is surely not biased.... against you. However, the non-aki mod seems to be fairly on the spot, no?
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Old 2011-12-30, 21:18   Link #393
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Feel free to dislike the trailer or dismiss this new AU with only one movie out; I wasn't impressed either. But watch with the generalizations. There's at least one poster in this thread that wasn't impressed with the series but enjoyed the movie better for being more concise and focusing more on the action oriented elements that define the series. So it's not just for said fantards.

Although I am a fan of Fate (not necessarily NanoFate as romantic shipping in this series is a joke) which may have caused me to rate the movie a point higher than it should be. It's missing things and isn't perfect-- some cuts Movie 1st made were really bad, but some actual criticism over some generic pandering rant would allow people to take you more seriously. Kaijo had previously espoused similar ideas, but in a far more respectful manner.
Well...actual criticism takes a bit more than a first reaction. I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to state my first reaction...

As for what criticisms I would make...they mainly focus on the possibly over-attention to the action, and the cutting out of a main character. ^^;
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Old 2011-12-30, 21:24   Link #394
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I'll just wait and see how A's the Movie goes along before I even rate it....
You just can't judge a book by it's cover, right?
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Old 2011-12-30, 21:27   Link #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycodrake View Post
Well...actual criticism takes a bit more than a first reaction. I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to state my first reaction...

As for what criticisms I would make...they mainly focus on the possibly over-attention to the action, and the cutting out of a main character. ^^;
You can say whatever you want. But you also have an entire movie before this to think about what can happen and stuff, which is worthy of discussion-- there's this new series in general to talk about. I just happen to disagree with your assertion that this movie was directed just at a certain group of fanatics that could exist, though I wouldn't doubt that some of it was in mind.

It's fair game to accuse the writers of lacking of creativity for example. If we think about how narrow their focus is, it would seem that they simply don't know what the hell they're doing and simply aren't even trying to spin certain characters in a new light.

Mind you, if this movie is a simple rehash with butchered elements (like a certain movie adaptation of another series), then yes, we can toss it away. But this isn't the time yet.

The Rebuild of Evangelion movies, for example, had a first movie that was very similar to the original aside from a few minor changes. The second movie, for better or worse, was radically different. I think it's fair to enter with that expectation for these sets of movies. Even as someone who was iffy with StrikerS (This is where the NanoFate issue begins) at best and disliked the mangas and as a result has no faith in Tsuzuki, I think there could be more optimism.
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Old 2011-12-30, 21:40   Link #396
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Give Lyco some breathing room guys. It's not like everyone who just found an anime immediately knows everything about them or even like them.

And beside, Anime Ova/Movies and other manga tends to show additional facts/background/those little details that the main anime kinda forget to grab along the way.

They might show why certain details what's on Grahm's mind that he decided to let Hayate to have the tome of the night sky and forgo planning to seal her with the tome itself, what's in the mind of Lindy and Chrono during the A's arc, Arisa and Suzuka's ACTUAL reaction to the reveal/Explination by Nanoha and her friends, the same with the Takamachi family.
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And I can't still make fanfic without restarting from the start when new ideas comes in...
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Old 2011-12-31, 10:22   Link #397
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This thread is not to be used to bash other subsets of the fandom or launch into rants about other unrelated websites or fangroups represented by those websites. Many of the recent posts went off-topic on these tangents and have been deleted. Future posts along similar lines will also be summarily deleted without further notice or warning.

Please stick to the topic at hand.
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Old 2011-12-31, 10:52   Link #398
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I, for one, am looking forward to this movie. Even if it's a complete rehash I think I'll still like it since from the trailer, the fights are going to be very impressive and there's at least one new scene in the trailer. Although judging from that scene I will be a bit disappointed with they cut out Fate and Yuuno saving Nanoha from Vita.
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Old 2011-12-31, 22:44   Link #399
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Has anyone seen the drama cd transcript at leohearts blog.
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Old 2012-01-01, 13:37   Link #400
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^ Wow! Nice, now let's wait until knowing what they're commenting xD.

I want to hear Miura's voice xD
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