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Old 2010-12-08, 16:30   Link #21
DragoZERO
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I think it's best to do what relentlessflame suggest and make a guild. Use the social group feature to create one and in it, make a list of leechers and such for artists to refer to.
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Old 2010-12-08, 16:30   Link #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreSage View Post
I wonder if creating another thread for requests that are to be used outside of AS would help? But what concerns me in that case is the overburden on AS with accounts that stay idle without use except for requests once-in-a-while. I'm not knowledgeable in forum IT, so I'm not sure if forums do become overburdened with accounts.
Yeah, I'd be against something like this as, like you said Sage, it would increase the amount of idle accounts and 'hit and run' users. If a user does want to request a signature that is beyond the limitations of AS's rules, then they can always PM a designer asking them to fulfil their request.

The one gripe I have at the moment with requests is when users post stock/source images not in thumbnails or in spoiler tags. My d/l speed isn't particularly brilliant where I am...

Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I think it's best to do what relentlessflame suggest and make a guild. Use the social group feature to create one and in it, make a list of leechers and such for artists to refer to.
I'm not sure about this. After taking a couple of minutes skimming through the recent request pages, the active designers that are regularly carrying out requests do not seem bothered about the requester's join date/post count/sig usage, and the designers that do take issue with these requesters are going to be the ones who create/join the designers guild; thus making it fairly redundant.
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Old 2010-12-08, 17:44   Link #23
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Ok, how about joindate?
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Old 2010-12-08, 18:04   Link #24
Kaze
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I have yet to read the full posts on this thread

But I give my FULL support to whatever has been said here.

This needs to end NOW.
Get rid of the leechers and tourists.

I'm saying this as an old veteran who has been on these boards for nearly 3 years now.
I have tried to keep it clean in the request threads a few months ago, by saying they don't deserve to request them, but to no avail.


I am in full support of this thread!
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Old 2010-12-08, 18:18   Link #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRendell View Post
I'm not sure about this. After taking a couple of minutes skimming through the recent request pages, the active designers that are regularly carrying out requests do not seem bothered about the requester's join date/post count/sig usage, and the designers that do take issue with these requesters are going to be the ones who create/join the designers guild; thus making it fairly redundant.
I don't know about many others but I initially was naive about these "hit&run" requesters. When I didn't see them use my sig here, I simply thought they just didn't like it or decided to ask someone else for another sig. It wasn't until the recent controversy that caught my attention. At first I thought they are just newcomers to the forum (join date) and didn't really think why they actually joined.

I wouldn't mind if they outright said that they intend to use the sig elsewhere (then I can make a better decision) but when they sneakily ask for sigs and then disappear...it does hurt. And I'm thinking some sig makers may be a bit like me (especially those who are new to making requests) - who weren't really initially aware of this. Also, the number of hit&runs are increasing quite a bit lately and that's where it becomes quite a nuisance (even for me now).
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Old 2010-12-08, 18:32   Link #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreSage View Post
I don't know about many others but I initially was naive about these "hit&run" requesters. When I didn't see them use my sig here, I simply thought they just didn't like it or decided to ask someone else for another sig. It wasn't until the recent controversy that caught my attention. At first I thought they are just newcomers to the forum (join date) and didn't really think why they actually joined.

I wouldn't mind if they outright said that they intend to use the sig elsewhere (then I can make a better decision) but when they sneakily ask for sigs and then disappear...it does hurt. And I'm thinking some sig makers may be a bit like me (especially those who are new to making requests) - who weren't really initially aware of this. Also, the number of hit&runs are increasing quite a bit lately and that's where it becomes quite a nuisance (even for me now).

Heck, at first I was the only one who actually voiced protest against these kind of people in the request threads, and after a while Dist helped me out to try and reduce these Request Tourists.

And after I went MIA (inactive for +-4-5 months) it looks like Dist took over my job (Which I am grateful for, as seeing this, he made much more progress than I ever could)


I'm glad more and more people are beginning to see this.
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Old 2010-12-08, 18:45   Link #27
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For some people, I think there might be a lack of simply viewing the profiles of some people. Some users, such as the one that I cited earlier known as GuardianZax has been here since Febuary of this year, and that some sig-makers might think that alone is enough to say someone requesting is legit, when really, Zax has only made 22 posts, all in the requests thread.

I do believe that there needs to be a minimum post limit (such as 50 or so posts outside of Fan Creations) and/or a minimum of being a productive member of this forum for about a month. However, that's where we still have problems. We still have the long-time hit-and-run requesters such as Zax, and or perhaps worse, people spamming random crap on our forum pages just to hit the minimum.

But, here's where we still have another problem... there are still some users here who are actually willing enough to make one of these signatures that are for use outside of this forum, and as long as people continue to choose to make said signatures, we can't really get rid of leechers, as they'll continue exploiting certain willing users to get signatures for outside us

I can't offer a real sure-way to stop this (granted, I don't think any of us can), and I'm disappointed that we have to take such measures, but I'm even more disappointed at some people's persistence in using our skills and our creativity in ways they were not intended to.
age.
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Old 2010-12-08, 18:47   Link #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRendell View Post
I'm not sure about this. After taking a couple of minutes skimming through the recent request pages, the active designers that are regularly carrying out requests do not seem bothered about the requester's join date/post count/sig usage, and the designers that do take issue with these requesters are going to be the ones who create/join the designers guild; thus making it fairly redundant.
Then they don't join. It's the only solution available, really.
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Old 2010-12-08, 19:09   Link #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wang View Post
But, here's where we still have another problem... there are still some users here who are actually willing enough to make one of these signatures that are for use outside of this forum, and as long as people continue to choose to make said signatures, we can't really get rid of leechers, as they'll continue exploiting certain willing users to get signatures for outside us
Well, there's nothing that can be done about that, unfortunately. Best thing is make sig makers aware of the situation and the rules (especially newbies doing requests), like how Kaze and Dist are doing in the thread. And I would think that if the majority of sig makers here are shown to be against hit&runs, other sig makers (who are more loose to the idea) will probably follow suit.

The guild does seem like the only possible semi-solution. Most people who are doing requests now will probably join it.

I'm really against the post-count because that could lead to some serious post spamming - and I hate to see that happen on our lovely forum.
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Old 2010-12-08, 19:16   Link #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreSage View Post
Well, there's nothing that can be done about that, unfortunately. Best thing is make sig makers aware of the situation and the rules (especially newbies doing requests), like how Kaze and Dist are doing in the thread. And I would think that if the majority of sig makers here are shown to be against hit&runs, other sig makers (who are more loose to the idea) will probably follow suit.
The best that I feel we can do at the moment is simply make our fellow signature artists aware of the rules, discourage taking requests from people who have signed on this month, and hope they will choose to simply spread the word of the forum rules themselves towards the next requester.

Quote:
The guild does seem like the only possible semi-solution. Most people who are doing requests now will probably join it.
I'm not so sure a guild is a real solution. More or less, I'm finding this thread in and of itself to be a meeting place for the "guild." We've already got the major speakers against leechers here already. This thread somewhat fulfilling this purpose now...
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Old 2010-12-08, 19:19   Link #31
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Heck, as a long time sig maker I'd even whip up special emblems for people to put on their sigs to show they know the rules and help stop leechers.

Think of it as a Crusade.

Sounds nice.


And yes, a Guild has been in my mind for over a year now.
a group where every graphic designer could join (I am aware of already existing groups like this, but most of those are very inactive)

But never really got around to creating it.
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Old 2010-12-08, 20:16   Link #32
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"There is no cure, only reprieve."

From my understanding, the guild would have pre-set rules for requests, right? The point I made earlier was that some of the designers are perfectly willing to accept request regardless of whether the requester is going to leech the signature. Therefore, that would deem the guild and it's rules redundant, as there are always going to be designers who take on the requests.

Like others had previously said quite a few times, the only thing we can do is to remind designers of the rules and of possible leechers. After all, not every requester is going to be a leecher, and bashing new members isn't very nice :3
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Old 2010-12-08, 20:31   Link #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaze View Post
Heck, as a long time sig maker I'd even whip up special emblems for people to put on their sigs to show they know the rules and help stop leechers.

Think of it as a Crusade.
Well, I'm not sure about "crusades"... but, for my two cents, I think you're all onto a good idea. It sounds to me like you need to engage in an information campaign for the fellow avatar/signature makers to make sure they know that "hit-and-run" requesting is bad for everyone. If you can stem the supply of "quick, free signatures for anyone who asks", the demand will necessarily adjust itself. I think this is vastly preferably to artificially-set thresholds that people will just consider a "toll to be paid".

I do want to say, please don't antagonize anyone, though. If someone wants to make a signature for someone who arguably doesn't deserve it, it's still their right to do whatever they want. And new posters won't be familiar with this on-going debate, so there's no point in getting angry with them about it either -- informing, maybe, but be nice.

Edit: See also JRendell's post above; too slow.


I am wondering if it would be beneficial to add a "Statement of Principle" to the opening post of these threads that goes something like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by First Draft
Avatar and Signature request threads are intended as an opportunity to connect AnimeSuki Forum Members with fellow Forum Member artists and graphic designers to support and enhance everyone's user experience on this forum. While we cannot necessarily prohibit someone from using requested avatars and signature on other Forums, this is generally frowned upon. If you are not already an active member of this forum, or do not intend on becoming one, this thread is not for you.
This is not intended as a Rule that would be enforced, but like I said, more of a Statement of Principle about why the thread exists. It would have no "teeth", exactly, but anyone could point to this message if they need to have some "official backup" as to why they're not going to meet a request.

Would that be helpful? (I am of course open to changes to the wording too; it's just something I made up.)
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Old 2010-12-08, 20:44   Link #34
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I think the guild and statement of principle are the best ideas.
I might be open to making sigs for other forum use, but perhaps the person could pm me, get the sig after it's finished, and leave but delete their account. Hell, I don't think there's really a solution but the ideas presented of the guild and SOP are the closest.
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Old 2010-12-08, 20:46   Link #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Would that be helpful? (I am of course open to changes to the wording too; it's just something I made up.)
Yes, very much so. I'm in favour of this and I'm sure others are too; great idea. It gives those undertaking this 'crusade' something akin to a King's Decree (or am I reading too much fantasy...). Like you said though, I think it better for this situation to naturally amend itself after we spread the information around, and by amend I mean decrease in number.

Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illusore View Post
I might be open to making sigs for other forum use, but perhaps the person could pm me, get the sig after it's finished, and leave but delete their account.
That's a lot of work for the admin team right there, and I'm willing to bet that they aren't prepared to do that.
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Old 2010-12-08, 21:19   Link #36
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Yes, very much so. I'm in favour of this and I'm sure others are too; great idea. It gives those undertaking this 'crusade' something akin to a King's Decree (or am I reading too much fantasy...). Like you said though, I think it better for this situation to naturally amend itself after we spread the information around, and by amend I mean decrease in number.

Edit:



That's a lot of work for the admin team right there, and I'm willing to bet that they aren't prepared to do that.
Right. meant to take that part out because I forgot about the fact admins had to do it

well...yeah. Leechers=bad.
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Old 2010-12-08, 21:39   Link #37
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Would that be helpful? (I am of course open to changes to the wording too; it's just something I made up.)
I think that is an excellent idea! It will certainly help curb the unwanted looting and provides a source of rational response for the sig designers to quote.

...er...I wouldn't call this a crusade...just being helpful - tis all (prevent any controversial outbursts like we've seen or could see).
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Old 2010-12-09, 04:15   Link #38
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I haven't read all the posts in this thread, agree with those I did read. A maybe silly suggestion to throw into the discussion.. why not like account name change set up a rule that you can only request for a new sig/av every 5-7 days? Like the account name change that you can only do like once in a long time but then shorter. I don't know how many of you makers are regular lurkers in those topics surely you should be able to pin point who requests daily or so and doesn't use it, report and to give them a warning through one of the mods :/
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Old 2010-12-09, 04:44   Link #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -KarumA- View Post
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, agree with those I did read. A maybe silly suggestion to throw into the discussion.. why not like account name change set up a rule that you can only request for a new sig/av every 5-7 days? Like the account name change that you can only do like once in a long time but then shorter. I don't know how many of you makers are regular lurkers in those topics surely you should be able to pin point who requests daily or so and doesn't use it, report and to give them a warning through one of the mods :/
The trouble is; of those who have an idle account on the forum just to request signatures for elsewhere, it's more of a monthly issue than a daily one. However, the majority are 'hit and run', as they create an account, request a sig, and are never heard from again. Adding a rule like you suggested would not only restrict users from requesting signatures, it would restrict the designers too. As I've said before, there are always going to be designers who take on the requests.
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Old 2010-12-09, 08:28   Link #40
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Originally Posted by JRendell View Post
The trouble is; of those who have an idle account on the forum just to request signatures for elsewhere, it's more of a monthly issue than a daily one. However, the majority are 'hit and run', as they create an account, request a sig, and are never heard from again. Adding a rule like you suggested would not only restrict users from requesting signatures, it would restrict the designers too. As I've said before, there are always going to be designers who take on the requests.
It could be a weekly one though, I've seen requesters request a new sig every week.

(for use on-and-off the board)

I don't think implementing rules now will work anymore, we've passed that stage.
The problem could have been adressed a few months back, but when I tried, I got serious and severe backlashes by the other users on these boards

(--> Nudge to the anonymous neg repper that scorned me, yes I know who you are)


The case here is when these people request-and-run to the outer reaches of the internet, they take the sig there and flout around with it.
Heck they might even tell their friends about where and how they got it.
Which leads them right to here.

We have a nearly constant supply of talented artists so ofcourse they would come here, it's easy pickings.

All we have to do is -nothing-
And when I say nothing, I mean complete apathy to these kinds of requests.

My advice to all of you would be, always check on your client before making his sig.

Look at his profile, look at his posts, do your research

If this were real life you could be making nukes or explosives for terrorist countries without even knowing it.
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