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Old 2011-07-05, 08:31   Link #101
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMvS View Post

BTW, you'll notice that sometimes the dialogues are sprinkled with French words when they are supposed to speak French or teach her French.

That is something that have struck me when they said "Japonaise", the french for Japanese girl, instead of Nihon-Jin
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Old 2011-07-05, 10:34   Link #102
liro
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I love this show so far. Yune is ridiculously cute and I want to take her home.

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Old 2011-07-05, 10:46   Link #103
Rejuvenation
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Very nice first episode. It has a very relaxing atmosphere about it. I will be keeping up with this.
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Old 2011-07-05, 12:10   Link #104
ShiroiRyu
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First episode better than the Kamisama and Sacred Seven ones.
Loved it. Yume is really cute !
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Old 2011-07-05, 12:17   Link #105
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Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
With the way she looks in this show, the inevitable romance is going to come off pretty creepy.
Please, no no no no no no no no.

I'm looking forward to the second episode so I can see more of Yune's personality. This episode did a good job introducing me into the setting, so I want to see how she reacts to things now.

But honestly, I was really bothered in the beginning. I was really worried about whether she was abducted and who her parents were.
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Old 2011-07-05, 13:11   Link #106
LoweGear
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So just saw the first episode and...

I really, REALLY want to see this series dubbed in French, just to complete the incredibly convincing atmosphere of the series, especially with all the SCENERY PORN.

Also Yune, stop tugging at my heartstrings so often, you'll give me a heart attack
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Old 2011-07-05, 13:14   Link #107
Reckoner
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Tried watching this show twice.

Once, stopped at 2:02 because I fell asleep. Another stopped at 7:42. It was getting me bored to tears. It didn't have anything outright offensive I suppose, but the show lacks atmosphere, and was pretty dull.

I felt the same way about Gosick, and that had the same artist. Coincidence? I think not.

Dropped.
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Old 2011-07-05, 14:02   Link #108
Kaioshin Sama
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First things first, I think I understand why people claim they were hooked in the first couple seconds to a minute. I think it's because the first 2 shots of a cathedral and statue respectively are easily the best looking shots in the entire show. I have literally NO idea what people are going on about though when it comes to the artwork in the show as it's IMO really average and the only scenery you see the vast majority of the time is the background of the smithy or the Enseignes du Roy sign outside. There really isn't that much scenery porn here IMO, no idea what people are talking about on that front.

Anyway first half is literally just old man brings Japanese indentured servant back home to France to serve as store mascot and his grandson apprentice and some customers marveling at how they've never seen a Japanese person before. I could swear I've seen this plot line in a show somewhere before even if it wasn't the main focus . Can't remember the name of the show, but the theme song was called Neko Mimi Mode and it was honestly more interesting than what we see here cause the characters are more developed by that point and the girl is actually a vampire and that adds complications to the matter.

Second half is Japanese indentured servant breaks a piece that apprentice blacksmith is working on by having an overlong kimono (more culture clash...oh noes), he scolds her but since she can't understand him she just apologizes and bows really low Geisha style while he treats her super coldly. Then the dude fixes the thing no problem, after giving a speech about how she needs to go back to Japan cause she just "doesn't belong and neither do those long sleeves", making him come off as a vaguely racist douche to be honest. Great characterization for your male lead right there, but apparently this show is supposed to be endearing.....can't say I agree with the majority on this front at the very least.

After that my attention really started to wander and I just sort of let the show time run out while I started typing up a PM that eventually became this post, albeit heavily edited. However I didn't miss the final shot of downtown Paris which was the other nice shot in this show, creating what I like to call a bookend effect. However the middle contents do not measure up to the bookend IMO so it doesn't really work all that well in the long run.

So 3 shots, a little culture clash that doesn't go into depth at all and that's about all the intrigue in this show. About a minute and a half out of 24. I honestly don't know what there is that people see in this show, but it's good that they found something, cause I definitely didn't. The art really isn't that great or evocative of the period and setting, the characters are incredibly dull and not really endearing with male lead coming off as kind of douchy, and the culture clash that could have been put to some use is handled in a really generic manner and then quickly brushed over and forgotten about. Sure it's kind of relaxing if relaxing means dull and uninteresting, but is that really a reason to watch a show like this? My answer has to remain no, and it's a drop for me.
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Old 2011-07-05, 14:32   Link #109
Arabesque
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
It's actually Nao Tooyama who is voicing Yune. Aoi Yuuki will appear in future episodes as another character.
Bleh. Brain fart. Post had been edited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I have literally NO idea what people are going on about though when it comes to the artwork in the show as it's IMO really average and the only scenery you see the vast majority of the time is the background of the smithy or the Enseignes du Roy sign outside. There really isn't that much scenery porn here IMO, no idea what people are talking about on that front.
The shots you mentioned and the lighting as well were all pretty nice looking. Also, do remember that while the show might not be the best in terms of scenery, it's not as bad looking as you are making it out to be. It's still a pretty nice looking series
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I honestly don't know what there is that people see in this show, but it's good that they found something, cause I definitely didn't.
Speaking for myself, I like the setting, the designs, The music, and the attention to detail given to the French language and artifacts. That and the atmosphere is pretty relaxing and laid back, even during the cultural clashes bits.

I think the best comparison would have to be with Aria, which I had only seen half way through, but I liked for the similar reasons, despite being painfully straight forward in some of its episodic plots.

Anyway, I respect that you disliked the show. This show is pretty much an acquired taste, so I guess it didn't fit with your own.
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Old 2011-07-05, 14:35   Link #110
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I'm not going to defend every criticism made against this show (for one thing, some of them are valid, I think), but there's one point made by Kaioshin that I take real issue with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Then the dude fixes the thing no problem, after giving a speech about how she needs to go back to Japan cause she just "doesn't belong and neither do those long sleeves", making him come off as a vaguely racist douche to be honest. Great characterization for your male lead right there, but apparently this show is supposed to be endearing.....can't say I agree with the majority on this front at the very least.
You realize this is a period piece set in the 1800s, correct? That racism was extremely common place back then, and basically the accepted cultural norm of most places?

I'm certainly not defending it, but that's how the vast majority of people thought back then. To judge Claude harshly for being (likely) the typical Frenchman of the age seems overly demanding to me, and perhaps even losing sight of the whole point of a period piece (i.e. to show how people used to be different than how they are today, with all the pros and cons that entails).

Also, it didn't take much for Claude to be won over by Yune, and for his racism to be replaced by a respect for Yune and her cultural/racial origins (as we clearly see by Claude bowing apologetically to Yune in the same manner as she had bowed to him). I felt that one of the real strengths of this first episode was watching how Yune's charm and determination was able to melt through the slightly racist attitudes of Claude, effectively defeating them, and showing that in his heart, Claude is a decent man. In a different era, he likely wouldn't be racist at all.

This certainly isn't to say that I object to you dropping this show, or that I think this anime is outstanding or anything (I found it a pleasant enough watch, but nothing I would go out of my way to recommend to fellow anime fans), but this one particular critique of Claude seems excessive to me. As such, I felt compelled to counter it.


I sense this anime is one where the female lead either makes it or breaks it for you. Either you get (and like) her moe charm, or you don't. For those that do, this is at least a decent watch, and for those that don't, I can perfectly understand people dropping it.
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Old 2011-07-05, 14:52   Link #111
Arabesque
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From what I understood, Kaioshin wasn't really saying that he had issue with the portrayal of the racism, but rather that he didn't think that it made the show or Claude any more likable or endearing. Not that I necessarily agree with that it came off as being racist, since Claude in general seemed like a hard ass to ever one, even fellow Frenchmen, but I can sort of see what he means (I think)

I agree with Triple R though, that it sort of managed to tie nicely with the end where Claude shows that he had grown his respect for Yune by apologizing in the Japanese manner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I sense this anime is one where the female lead either makes it or breaks it for you. Either you get (and like) her moe charm, or you don't. For those that do, this is at least a decent watch, and for those who don't, I can perfectly understand people dropping it.
Well, I think it goes beyond that really.

I think people can be ''moe'' about Yune, but still think this show is boring and dull, and really worth the effort to watch. I think the show appeals mostly to the Aria crowd, who are looking for a relaxing experience but with a historic setting.

I mean, I had shown a friend of mine an episode of Aria, and he seemed to think that it was very nice episode, despite being able to predict (successfully) the entire plot line of that episode. Another friend wasn't able to watch the same due to how predictable it was.

So I think the biggest selling point will be how much does the setting appeal to the viewer.
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Old 2011-07-05, 14:59   Link #112
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
Bleh. Brain fart. Post had been edited.The shots you mentioned and the lighting as well were all pretty nice looking. Also, do remember that while the show might not be the best in terms of scenery, it's not as bad looking as you are making it out to be. It's still a pretty nice looking seriesSpeaking for myself, I like the setting, the designs, The music, and the attention to detail given to the French language and artifacts. That and the atmosphere is pretty relaxing and laid back, even during the cultural clashes bits.
I did say average right? When I say average I definitely don't mean bad looking, I mean...well....average. That's how it looked to me....just really average. As for those attentions to detail....I think the bare minimum I can ask for nowadays is that they get the foreign languages right. This used to be a huge issue, but Japanese animators have gotten better with foreign languages. As for artifacts....just not enough of that sort of thing to lead me to want to praise the show. I am honestly fascinated by that sort of thing and it would have hooked me for at least another episode, but I really didn't see much of it at all so no sale.

Quote:
I think the best compression would have to be with Aria, which I had only seen half way through, but I liked for the similar reasons, despite being painfully straight forward in some of its episodic plots.
I assume you meant comparison so I'll respond to this in that context. The thing with Aria is that what I saw of it (which was like 1 episode really) at least had what I would describe as some interesting artwork and architecture used effectively. Thing is I've seen the whole Parisian inspired backdrop thing done pretty frequently in these sorts of shows. I think it's honestly the most common one I've seen when it comes to foreign settings outside of modern day America, which is easily the most common foreign setting. Hadn't seen a completely dreamed up water world like in Aria though and that's what made the artwork something I could get at least get behind as a reason to check out the show (even if I never did). It wasn't enough to carry the show for me of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'm not going to defend every criticism made against this show (for one thing, some of them are valid, I think), but there's one point made by Kaioshin that I take real issue with.

You realize this is a period piece set in the 1800s, correct? That racism was extremely common place back then, and basically the accepted cultural norm of most places?

I'm certainly not defending it, but that's how the vast majority of people thought back then. To judge Claude harshly for being (likely) the typical Frenchman of the age seems overly demanding to me, and perhaps even losing sight of the whole point of a period piece (i.e. to show how people used to be different than how they are today, with all the pros and cons that entails).

Also, it didn't take much for Claude to be won over by Yune, and for his racism to be replaced by a respect for Yune and her cultural/racial origins (as we clearly see by Claude bowing apologetically to Yune in the same manner as she had bowed to him). I felt that one of the real strengths of this first episode was watching how Yune's charm and determination was able to melt through the slightly racist attitudes of Claude, effectively defeating them, and showing that in his heart, Claude is a decent man. In a different era, he likely wouldn't be racist at all.

This certainly isn't to say that I object to you dropping this show, or that I think this anime is outstanding or anything (I found it a pleasant enough watch, but nothing I would go out of my way to recommend to fellow anime fans), but this one particular critique of Claude seems excessive to me. As such, I felt compelled to counter it.


I sense this anime is one where the female lead either makes it or breaks it for you. Either you get (and like) her moe charm, or you don't. For those that do, this is at least a decent watch, and for those that don't, I can perfectly understand people dropping it.
Well the thing with this show is that I didn't really sense any of that sort of thing from any character except for Claude and that was only during that one scene. I guess you can call some customers ogling at Yune vaguely racist, but you could also interpret it as genuine curiosity. It just struck me as a weird characterization to give the guy as his first introduction. If vague racism were to become a common theme in the show I might end up agreeing with you in the long run, but I don't plan on sticking around to see it.

And I get the whole moe charm thing with Yune, I really do, but it's not enough to carry a show for me and neither is what I describe as pretty average artwork and paper thin to non-existent plotline. The fascination with that sort of thing I will definitely admit I do not get.
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Old 2011-07-05, 15:07   Link #113
Eisdrache
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
[...]
While I'm not going to try to make you watch the show (you do have some valid points) I'm not really sure about the point of your post. I see that you don't like the show that much yet you felt bothered enough to make a pretty long post about how things in this thread were wrong.

Taste was always subjective and if people believe that the art is good enough for them then why not let them believe that and be done with it. I do understand that there is a need to vent sometimes but it's not like you're forced to continue with the show if it isn't to your liking.

Personally I believe that there is more than enough depth about Claude's character to make me like him and I'm not one to like male characters that quickly However it might be just the opposite for you and now we're back to the taste = subjective theme.

Anyway to actually add something to the topic, Yune certainly is adorable (the moment when she sits on the bed was awwww) and the story progresses nicely. So far I have no complaints :3
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Old 2011-07-05, 15:23   Link #114
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I can see why this show isn't for everyone. I mean, I thought Aria and Gosick were boring, and I can see the similarities, so I know where you guys are coming from. I think it's the stronger character-driven drama between Claude and Yune in this first episode that I didn't see in the first episodes of those series that make me enjoy this one so much but not the other two. For me, at least, the better comparison might be Emma, which I also enjoyed, although Ikoku has drama due to culture clash rather than romance.

@Kaioshin: It's surprising to me that a racist character would be a minus though. When a show has immoral, bigoted, or otherwise flawed characters, I usually count that as a plus, since it always makes their interactions with the other characters more interesting and gives room for growth. Everyone has their own preferences, though.
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Old 2011-07-05, 15:29   Link #115
Arabesque
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I did say average right? When I say average I definitely don't mean bad looking, I mean...well....average. That's how it looked to me....just really average.
Ah, then I misunderstood. My mistake.

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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I assume you meant comparison so I'll respond to this in that context.
That I did *edits*
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
The thing with Aria is that what I saw of it (which was like 1 episode really) at least had what I would describe as some interesting artwork and architecture used effectively. Thing is I've seen the whole Parisian inspired backdrop thing done pretty frequently in these sorts of shows. I think it's honestly the most common one I've seen when it comes to foreign settings outside of modern day America, which is easily the most common foreign setting. Hadn't seen a completely dreamed up water world like in Aria though and that's what made the artwork something I could get at least get behind as a reason to check out the show (even if I never did). It wasn't enough to carry the show for me of course.
Then that's why you aren't really that interested in this show, since the setting is one of the main selling points and your not excited to see something that is as common? I can understand that. Aria on the other hand was more fantasized world with a whole lot of more unique looking culture, so it drew you in more, despite the plot not being the strongest one out there.
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Well the thing with this show is that I didn't really sense any of that sort of thing from any character except for Claude and that was only during that one scene. I guess you can call some customers ogling at Yune vaguely racist, but you could also interpret it as genuine curiosity. It just struck me as a weird characterization to give the guy as his first introduction
The thing is, while what Claude said can be taken as being racist, it could also be interpreted as just him acting harsh with everyone as he had done with the man who walked in to see Yune and with his Grandfather. It came across as him being rough in general with everyone.

Also, what he said wasn't so much implying that the Japanese were lower than the French, but more about how much distaste for what he had taken as their defeatist and lack of self pride, which he thought that Yune had shown by bowing that low (and constantly). So I think it came from him thinking that she was something of a slave, not being able to speak her mind and just smiling at everything they say without saying a word.

Also, it works with him realizing that Yune could understand what he said, and make him shameful of what he said back then in front of her (hence the bow at the end and him respecting the Japanese culture).
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Old 2011-07-05, 15:31   Link #116
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
While I'm not going to try to make you watch the show (you do have some valid points) I'm not really sure about the point of your post. I see that you don't like the show that much yet you felt bothered enough to make a pretty long post about how things in this thread were wrong.

Taste was always subjective and if people believe that the art is good enough for them then why not let them believe that and be done with it. I do understand that there is a need to vent sometimes but it's not like you're forced to continue with the show if it isn't to your liking.

Personally I believe that there is more than enough depth about Claude's character to make me like him and I'm not one to like male characters that quickly However it might be just the opposite for you and now we're back to the taste = subjective theme.

Anyway to actually add something to the topic, Yune certainly is adorable (the moment when she sits on the bed was awwww) and the story progresses nicely. So far I have no complaints :3
Just creating a contrast as to what seemed to work for others but didn't for me. People might notice that I use this method a lot in my impressions. Not saying that other people are wrong, just different in their approach. I thought that this was pretty clear to be honest.

I also think I already mentioned a few times that I won't be continuing with the show so you definitely don't need to inform me of this right to choose nor about the whole subjective impressions issue.

And as I mentioned (this is becoming a running theme apparently) the post originally started as a PM of impressions that I promised to make to someone after checking out the episode. What I didn't mention though is that he actually posted his in the thread so I figured I'd trim out the personalized parts and post my reaction in the thread as well. That's why this post ended up in the thread.

If all of this wasn't clear before hopefully this helps to remove the fog.
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Old 2011-07-05, 15:40   Link #117
Arabesque
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Originally Posted by Kagayaki View Post
For me, at least, the better comparison might be Emma, which I also enjoyed, although Ikoku has drama due to culture clash rather than romance.
While I think there are some merits to that, I don't think Emma is the best comparison, since while both shows have some form of dramatic nature (with great varying details), Emma was taking a classic tale about love and the class barrier and retelling it with added historic detail as another hook, so even while it was historically accurate and gave history buffs something to chew on it was in essence a romance, while here it seems like the setting is the main hook with the rest being additional reasons to stay.
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Old 2011-07-05, 15:43   Link #118
khryoleoz
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
[snip]
That's overanalyzing having reasons and motivations for watching any show. I had no reason to watch Moetan, still enjoyed the heck out of it. Had all the reasons to watch FMA...can't get into it. Values vary from person to person. Some of your feedback was informative, and it was an interesting read on how you didn't like a show by contradicting the grounds that others did like it, a clever way of telling them they had no basis liking it on the grounds that they claim.

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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Second half is Japanese indentured servant breaks a piece that apprentice blacksmith is working on by having an overlong kimono (more culture clash...oh noes), he scolds her but since she can't understand him she just apologizes and bows really low Geisha style while he treats her super coldly. Then the dude fixes the thing no problem, after giving a speech about how she needs to go back to Japan cause she just "doesn't belong and neither do those long sleeves", making him come off as a vaguely racist douche to be honest. Great characterization for your male lead right there, but apparently this show is supposed to be endearing.....can't say I agree with the majority on this front at the very least.
It's only fair to mention that she did comprehend the language as she revealed to have spoken it fluently. She paid the highest token of respect she knew and had at her disposal not because she failed to apprehend her situation but because she did. He communicates his idea having believed some cultural incompatibility between them. Nothing racist about expressing such an observation, unless you are now adding to the term of racism as encompasing a belief that not all cultures are equal, but that's changing the definition of racism and what it is to be a racist. You need to rethink your position here a bit.
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Old 2011-07-05, 15:48   Link #119
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
From what I understood, Kaioshin wasn't really saying that he had issue with the portrayal of the racism, but rather that he didn't think that it made the show or Claude any more likable or endearing.
Oh, it certainly didn't make this show or Claude more endearing. I would have ended up disliking Claude myself if he hadn't softened by the end of the episode.


Quote:
Not that I necessarily agree with that it came off as being racist, since Claude in general seemed like a hard ass to ever one, even fellow Frenchmen, but I can sort of see what he means (I think)
Claude did have a bit of a "hard ass in general" feel to him, yeah.


Quote:
Well, I think it goes beyond that really.

I think people can be ''moe'' about Yune, but still think this show is boring and dull, and really worth the effort to watch. I think the show appeals mostly to the Aria crowd, who are looking for a relaxing experience but with a historic setting.

I mean, I had shown a friend of mine an episode of Aria, and he seemed to think that it was very nice episode, despite being able to predict (successfully) the entire plot line of that episode. Another friend wasn't able to watch the same due to how predictable it was.

So I think the biggest selling point will be how much does the setting appeal to the viewer.
Well, all I can say to that is that Yune is what made this episode for me, and reading the comments here on Anime Suki, I get the sense that her character was the main appeal for many of the people who liked this show (I could be misreading things there, though).

Still, I will say that the artwork in a few places (mainly the ones Kaioshin pointed out) is nice. And the relaxing feel does make it a nice compliment to what I recently watched.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Well the thing with this show is that I didn't really sense any of that sort of thing from any character except for Claude and that was only during that one scene.
Ok, I see your point here. Claude would have come off better if he didn't "stand out" for being so rough-around-the-edges compared to the other Frenchmen, yeah.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagayaki View Post

@Kaioshin: It's surprising to me that a racist character would be a minus though. When a show has immoral, bigoted, or otherwise flawed characters, I usually count that as a plus, since it always makes their interactions with the other characters more interesting and gives room for growth. Everyone has their own preferences, though.
I'd actually like to see (slight) racism played up here, in the hopes of achieving good drama with it. Not with Claude, now, since I want him to be won over for good.

But that boy that was ogling Yune? Maybe have him develop a crush on her, and ask her to go playing with him or something, and then have his parents object to him hanging out with a Japanese girl...

That could make for good drama, I think.
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Old 2011-07-05, 16:42   Link #120
0utf0xZer0
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Anyway first half is literally just old man brings Japanese indentured servant back home to France to serve as store mascot and his grandson apprentice and some customers marveling at how they've never seen a Japanese person before. I could swear I've seen this plot line in a show somewhere before even if it wasn't the main focus . Can't remember the name of the show, but the theme song was called Neko Mimi Mode and it was honestly more interesting than what we see here cause the characters are more developed by that point and the girl is actually a vampire and that adds complications to the matter.
You're thinking of Moon Phase, specifically the arc dealing with Hazuki's arrival in Japan and a few interludes between action bits later on. There's a couple differences though:

-The way people marvel over her when she tries to sell things is because vampires can charm people, which Hazuki does subconciously (according to the grandfather). The fact she's wearing traditional Japanese clothing shouldn't be a big deal because she's working at an antique shop in Japan.
-The grandfather doesn't bring Hazuki home in Moon Phase. She follows his occult photographer grandson home after he frees her from a castle while on a photo shoot.
-Hazuki has a tendency to act like a spoiled brat at times. Yune not so much.

Along with Kurenai, Moon Phase is one of my favourite "boy meets loli" shows. Compared to the leading lolis in those shows, Yune manages to differentiate herself on class basis alone: while Hazuki and Murasaki seem to take their obligations seriously, their willingness to go the extra mile for other people is tempered by their self perception of themselves as higher than most people. You don't get that with Yune.

To be honest, her over the top sense of duty is one of the things that interested me about this first episode. That and I think the last moe show I watched with a historical setting was Taisho Baseball Girls, and I watched that two years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Oh, it certainly didn't make this show or Claude more endearing. I would have ended up disliking Claude myself if he hadn't softened by the end of the episode.
Yeah, the endearing thing about Claude is that he's won over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'd actually like to see (slight) racism played up here, in the hopes of achieving good drama with it. Not with Claude, now, since I want him to be won over for good.

But that boy that was ogling Yune? Maybe have him develop a crush on her, and ask her to go playing with him or something, and then have his parents object to him hanging out with a Japanese girl...

That could make for good drama, I think.
Agreed. Even if it isn't always played for heavy drama, I think that it could introduce a nice bit of tension to contrast the relaxed pacing.
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