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Old 2011-06-26, 15:06   Link #1561
Heibi
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
If you see an anime trailer and it doesn't say it's a Gundam show and it doesn't show any Gundam or Gundam-like mechas, how do you know for sure that it's a Gundam show and not some other mecha show? You could see a SEED trailer, for example, and think it's a trailer for Zoids. Or you could see a trailer for G and think it's some kind of a super robot show, maybe even a new SRW. Even a Wing or a Turn A trailer could look like some other mecha series if you don't show the Gundams.
You're missing the point. The characters shown as well - The Harlock-looking designs and such. The preview doesn't scream Gundam. The point being - the preview alone doesn't make you feel this is Gundam until you see the Gundam itself. That was my overall impression until that point.
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Old 2011-06-26, 15:08   Link #1562
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Originally Posted by Heibi View Post
You're missing the point. The characters shown as well - The Harlock-looking designs and such. The preview doesn't scream Gundam. The point being - the preview alone doesn't make you feel this is Gundam until you see the Gundam itself.
Uh... it's a one-minute preview. You can't really capture "Gundam!" in one minute.
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Old 2011-06-26, 15:14   Link #1563
monster
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
No. Just no. Commercial ratings don't determine the success of a series any more than merchandise sales.
Sure it can. Just because it's not a success indicator for you doesn't mean it's not a success indicator.
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The characters shown as well - The Harlock-looking designs and such.
What does that have to do with whether or not it's Gundam? Designs change over the years and with different designers.
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Old 2011-06-26, 15:15   Link #1564
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
No. Just no. Commercial ratings don't determine the success of a series any more than merchandise sales. UC and CE are the most successful Gundam universes in terms of merchandise sales and TV ratings, yet in my opinion (and I know I'm going to get neg reps for this) they're mediocre under the criteria I use to evaluate a series. Saying the success of a Gundam series is dependent upon how many people watch it or how much money it makes is an insult to the people who watch any series for what they should be watching it for: The message.
Sorry, business is business.(you as much said so yourself in your post) If the ratings are low they'll cancel at a certain point. That's just how the real world goes. If you aren't selling product you end it. It's not an insult at all - if the fans of Gundam don't watch a new Gundam series it's the studio who is insulting the fans. The fans will support the show only if they like it. Thus, ratings.

Anyway, we are getting slightly off topic.

If the studio folks are saying it's not meant for a younger audience - so be it. We will see once it airs. Maybe they're noticing a little negative impact from the preview and will make the effort to prove folks wrong. I certainly hope the show proves to be GUNDAM.
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Old 2011-06-26, 15:19   Link #1565
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What does that have to do with whether or not it's Gundam? Designs change over the years and with different designers.
Eyes glaze over at this statement. Sure designs change - but you don't go and use designs from another show. i.e. Harlock-looking characters.

Anyway, to me the only part that feels Gundam-like from the preview is t he Gundam, the ship at the end and the painting. We'll see when it airs.
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Old 2011-06-26, 15:24   Link #1566
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Sure designs change - but
Okay, honestly, I think that if you're willing to admit that, then there's no need for a "but." Turn A designs don't look the same as SEED designs, etc.

But whatever, I suppose, if you feel that strongly about it...
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Old 2011-06-26, 16:37   Link #1567
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Originally Posted by Heibi View Post
The fans will support the show only if they like it. Thus, ratings.
Nope, sorry. I watched every episode of Gundam SEED Destiny despite loosing interest after around episode 10 because I kept hoping it would get better; had it been aired on TV, my viewership would have boosted the ratings however infinitesimally. GSD, quite frankly, sucked, but the ratings don't reflect that if people keep watching for whatever reason. Merchandise, likewise, doesn't have anything to do with the quality of a show. Going back to GSD, I hate the show but I like the Destiny Gundam, so I bought the MG 1/100 Destiny Gundam kit; I directly contributed to the cash flow GSD rakes in despite my dislike for the show. Ratings and merchandise sales don't mean anything.
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Old 2011-06-26, 16:38   Link #1568
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Originally Posted by Heibi View Post
Eyes glaze over at this statement. Sure designs change - but you don't go and use designs from another show. i.e. Harlock-looking characters.

Anyway, to me the only part that feels Gundam-like from the preview is t he Gundam, the ship at the end and the painting. We'll see when it airs.
You can say the same for every new AU show that comes out... I.e. G Gundam looks like a Go Nagai show, not Gundam. Gundam Wing looks like Ronin Warriors, not Gundam... Turn A...? Forget about it... Initially there's nothing in that show that look remotely like Gundam, not the characters, not the mecha, not the settings.
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Old 2011-06-26, 16:46   Link #1569
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
Ratings and merchandise sales don't mean anything.
Again, perhaps not for you, but it does mean something to those who're selling the product.

Seriously, if you continue to watch something despite not liking it, and even buy a merchandise from it, then that is your problem. From the producers' point of view, a sale is a sale. And if they're in it to make money, which many of them probably are, then decent or better ratings and merchandise sales can count as a success.
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Old 2011-06-26, 16:51   Link #1570
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Again, perhaps not for you, but it does mean something to those who're selling the product.
I never said I was talking from a producer's POV; this is purely from a consumer's standpoint. Ratings don't mean anything to a consumer, because they use a completely different set of criteria to determine what "success" is.
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Old 2011-06-26, 17:01   Link #1571
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I never said I was talking from a producer's POV; this is purely from a consumer's standpoint. Ratings don't mean anything to a consumer, because they use a completely different set of criteria to determine what "success" is.
Any consumer can use a different set of criteria that's different from another consumer. So it's meaningless to only use the consumer's point of view when considering the success of a commercial product.
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Old 2011-06-26, 17:04   Link #1572
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Any consumer can use a different set of criteria that's different from another consumer. So it's meaningless to only use the consumer's point of view when considering the success of a commercial product.
And it's just as meaningless to use only the producer's point of view.
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Old 2011-06-26, 17:50   Link #1573
monster
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And it's just as meaningless to use only the producer's point of view.
Except, because of how ratings and sales are gained, the producer's point of view also includes a good percentage of the consumer's point of view.

That's what ratings and merchandise sales do. They tell the producers whether there are enough consumers who like at least part of the show enough to spend money on the merchandise directly or by adding to the TV ratings. Even if they watch it just because it's called Gundam or because they can still hope that it gets better. Or even if they watch it for just one character or one mobile suit. All of that together count towards the overall success of a show. So no, it's not useless at all.
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Old 2011-06-26, 17:56   Link #1574
kaito-kid
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
And it's just as meaningless to use only the producer's point of view.

It's not just the producer..
TV ratings/Sales/Popularity=Success is a formula used by the entertainment industry around the world. It's a very logical one.. I don't really understand what you are trying to argue here.
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Old 2011-06-26, 17:59   Link #1575
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I don't think anyone here knows what in the hell they're arguing here anymore.
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Old 2011-06-26, 19:39   Link #1576
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Originally Posted by Heibi View Post
You're missing the point. The characters shown as well - The Harlock-looking designs and such. The preview doesn't scream Gundam. The point being - the preview alone doesn't make you feel this is Gundam until you see the Gundam itself. That was my overall impression until that point.
Isn't it the same for, almost every Gundam that's not UC? Take out the Gundam, and tell me how do you know if the preview of GSD or the most recently, Gundam 00, is Gundam? It could be even Votom or Macross, but throwing in Gundam and you will still say it's Gundam.

I still remember clearly how some people said "this is not Gundam" when they saw Gundam 00's character design came from Yun Kouga .
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Old 2011-06-26, 19:56   Link #1577
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Key complaint: "They're shaped like people now"

Last edited by GN0010 Nosferatu; 2011-06-26 at 21:57.
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Old 2011-06-26, 20:28   Link #1578
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Well if the show is supposedly "not meant for younger audiences", then so be it. I'll take a look briefly to see if it's worth my time, but the character designs aren't really helping Bandai's argument here. If it falls flat on its face, then we'll know, and hopefully the show will be cancelled early for the sake of all Gundam fans. And if it does turn out well, well... we shall see.
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Old 2011-06-26, 22:01   Link #1579
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There. I made it better. Stop complaining now.
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Old 2011-06-26, 22:33   Link #1580
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I hate to barge in and say something OT but... do we have a thread to discuss The Origin anime yet? I looked around but didn't see one. This seemed like the most relevant place to post about it...
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