AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Amagami SS

View Poll Results: Amagami SS - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll
Perfect 10 24 36.92%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 20 30.77%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 16 24.62%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 4.62%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.54%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.54%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-12-10, 00:04   Link #21
eplipswich
The Anime Maniac
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 27
Whoa that's hella fast, but UTW subs are out! Time to go watch it


EDIT: Just watched it and...OMG...something's wrong with ayatsuji all of a sudden...In what world is she trying to do...

Spoiler for episode 23:
__________________
Currently Watching:
Attack on Titan, Suisei no Gargantia, Ore no Imouto Season 2

I only watch highly recommended animes ~ ~

Last edited by eplipswich; 2010-12-10 at 01:15.
eplipswich is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 00:39   Link #22
D-Gold
Archangelic Iron Beast
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: On an IRC
Age: 20
Still loving this arc.
Spoiler for episode 23:
__________________
D-Gold is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 01:23   Link #23
karuroso
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
The complexity of this arc is simply amazing, Ayatsuji seariously made this ep incredible, but oh god >_> seeing her like that at the end was really heartbreaking... and i wonder how her problem with her sister will be explained with only one ep left. Overall it is no wonder she's the game cover girl =D
karuroso is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 01:25   Link #24
Nochgo
iceman
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CO, USA
Man, what a shocker. This just became something more than a sweet romance story... What have you done, you murdererJunichi. Work your magic and bring her back!! What a finale this arc has become.
__________________
Nochgo is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 01:39   Link #25
pagan poor
Swayin' to the beat
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Yeah, that was.. interesting. Ayatsuji has definitely become unhinged.

What she said after she slapped him.. that was pretty condemning of Junichi. For me it was the most emotional dip I've seen in this series. I love it. Can't wait to see how this turns out. Also reading what Key Board said helped in wanting to see how this plays out.
pagan poor is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 01:50   Link #26
ID555
Kamaboko smash & grab
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Hey, that's new. Multiple personalities? But she's probably just pretending.

Nice EVIL LAUGH
ID555 is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 02:04   Link #27
Knightrunner
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: United States--- California
Light was a good actor too. Now that I watched the sub version, I cringed when I saw Ayatsuji inner appearance dissappeared in front of Jun. I feel very sorry for her and I can understand how frustrating to not get things done your own way. Hopefully, we can see a balance of the inner and outer Ayatsuji next episode. Her laugh in the end sounded like she was in pain, but her class rep personality got things accomplished.
__________________
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6139/omk1.jpg
Credit to grylsygaeger
Knightrunner is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 02:17   Link #28
Chaos2Frozen
I Am Undone
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drangelic, or by a different name...
Age: 25
At the ending... In all my experience this is the first time I've seen that a 'dere/cute/sweet' side is considered a bad thing
Chaos2Frozen is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 02:28   Link #29
Knightrunner
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: United States--- California
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
At the ending... In all my experience this is the first time I've seen that a 'dere/cute/sweet' side is considered a bad thing
It's a very horrible thing in this case
__________________
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6139/omk1.jpg
Credit to grylsygaeger
Knightrunner is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 02:29   Link #30
eplipswich
The Anime Maniac
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
At the ending... In all my experience this is the first time I've seen that a 'dere/cute/sweet' side is considered a bad thing
Not being true to oneself and being friendly all of a sudden is a creepy, weird and terrible thing...
__________________
Currently Watching:
Attack on Titan, Suisei no Gargantia, Ore no Imouto Season 2

I only watch highly recommended animes ~ ~
eplipswich is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 02:33   Link #31
Chaos2Frozen
I Am Undone
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drangelic, or by a different name...
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by eplipswich View Post
Not being true to oneself and being friendly all of a sudden is a creepy, weird and terrible thing...
It's not really that creepy that's how she was before Junichi found out... It's only because we've seen her true self that's why it would seem that way...
Chaos2Frozen is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 02:33   Link #32
sikvod00
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Homestead, FL
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by eplipswich View Post
Not being true to oneself and being friendly all of a sudden is a creepy, weird and terrible thing...
Bingo. It's not her genuine personality (to be more accurate, it's a PART of her real self; she can definitely be a sweetheart without faking it). That and the fact that I actually like Ayatsuji's feisty, occasionally combative/intimidating side.

EDIT: Chaos has a point. She had a friendly, non-confrontational demeanor before. But this new one is different...way too sugary and vulnerable. Her "class rep" facade and real self both were reliable and less girlish.
sikvod00 is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 03:22   Link #33
thundrakkon
Fly Away into the Night
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Holy split personalities! I really feel for Tsukasa this episode. Junichi agreed to go out with her, yet he still calls her by her last name.

Putting that aside, Junichi really does not understand her as much as he thinks. Her hurt her in more ways than he would ever realize. The worst part is, he claims to know her right in front of her, while she was almost in tears.

At first, I was thinking that Tsukasa was such a great manipulator at the end, but the ending sequence made me realize that she was genuinely that way. That is amazing, and scary in a way.

I hope Junichi will fix the mess he has made.
__________________
thundrakkon is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 03:32   Link #34
Freya
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Southern California.
Age: 23
Send a message via AIM to Freya
Holy crap....she has split/split/split personality!

Awkward.....lol.

She has a light side, dark side, and a white side? lol.
__________________
Freya is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 03:42   Link #35
serenade_beta
マジ天使
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Ayatsuji-san is a wonderful person with no hidden parts to her!
Had to say it once.

Talk about fast development... It was especially fast in the romance (first part), with her ending up liking him just like that... Made me
But then, the end... Yeah... Talk about Tofu Mental.

PS: The three(?) bullies... That girl on the right (short, black-hair) was kind of entertaining for some reason.
__________________

-Tried to start a blog --> http://tdnshumi.blogspot.com/ (Mainly about video games)
-R.I.P. Hiroshi Yamauchi, Gaming wouldn't have been the same without you (9/19/13)
serenade_beta is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 06:27   Link #36
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Yeah romance development was too fast I was like that too. But other than that it was a good episode. The last part was really interesting and good. Junichi has better to do something about that And Ayatsuji's face when she cried in front of Junichi was beautiful

As excepted, the best arc .

Ayatsuji
Kusa-San is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 07:36   Link #37
Chaos2Frozen
I Am Undone
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drangelic, or by a different name...
Age: 25
When it comes to Amagami, we should come to expect sudden love confession scenes by now.

That said, I particularly like Tsukasa's confession scene It felt... nice and refreshing I guess.
Chaos2Frozen is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 08:25   Link #38
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 27
The scene where Ayatsuji chewed that bitch out was just awesome. And yeah, the romantic development was really fast, I never expected Ayatsuji to confess so soon... it was a very good confession, too.

The ending of the episode was also surprising. I thought she simply swallowed her pride and pretended to apologize to the three bitches, but she actually killed her real personality.

Who voiced the Head bitch (the one with the ponytail)? Her voice sounded familiar.
__________________
Mikan & Yami
Kanon is offline  
Old 2010-12-10, 09:21   Link #39
Mentar
Sore wa himitsu desu!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 44
Deconstructing Ayatsuji - An Attempt to Put Together the Puzzle Pieces

After episode 23, Key Board and me have been discussing Tsukasa alot, trying to make the myriads of puzzle pieces of her fit, in an attempt to explain what made her the way she is, and to understand why she's acting the way she does. In the end, I believe we managed to figure things out and make all puzzle pieces fit, so I'm trying to summarize the results in the correct temporal order, because I believe it's making her development more easy to understand.

Disclaimer: Neither Key Board nor me have played the game. I have read the manga, but in several aspects this is actually more a hindrance than a help, because the manga muddles some key scenes of hers. Nevertheless, this analysis may still turn out wrong, several aspects are assumptions and conjectures. Review it and make up your own mind. Sorry that it got so long.

The True, "Inner" Ayatsuji

Tsukasa's true nature is that of an exceptionally smart and capable girl that has a strong drive to excel. She doesn't suffer fools lightly and can be scathing and biting when angered. She has a very domineering attitude, which in conjunction with her take-charge approach and her sharp tongue can come across as very harsh and confrontational/unlikable. She is very perceptive and quick-thinking, able to assess solutions to problems and weaknesses of others rapidly. With her teasing streak she enjoys to apply these skills to mess with Junichi.

Her inner motivation is to get ahead in life, and to prove herself by excelling over all others. She draws self-affirmation out of her performance and success as class representative, and later, as festival committee chairwoman. She is exceptionally dedicated and prideful, and therefore, she'd rather work herself to death than admitting failure. It should be noted though that she does _not_ extend this harshness to Junichi, she's been sending him home several times. This indicates a caring side towards others which she does not extend towards herself.

The Birth of the Facade, the "Outer" Ayatsuji

It is not quite clear when she developed the polished facade she has been wearing almost all of the time, but we believe we can make an educated guess: The key is Yukari, Tsukasa's kind-friendly, yet airheaded and oblivious elder sister.

Almost certainly Tsukasa's harsher personality set her on a collision course with Yukari. She seems rather like a simpleton, but is quite likable. We believe that Tsukasa's parents will have favored Yukari and admonished Tsukasa for her unfriendly attitude. Tsukasa in return will have resented her parents' favoritism in spite of her own better performance, and this would extend to Yukari aswell. This would also explain why Tsukasa reacted so negatively to comments about her sister, particularly positive ones.

With Tsukasa's perceptiveness and ability to adapt, she will have realized that she couldn't leave her aggressive, confrontational and sarcastic personality unchecked and public, or she would make enemies which would hinder her self-defining desire to excel in life. Therefore, she had the perfect solution: She developed and perfected the "Facade".

By consciously assuming the exterior of a kind, "perfect" girl, who would not make enemies, smile, perform admirably, never get angry, work hard and get things done without frictions, she would be able to pursue her primary goal successfully. Unfortunately, it would stifle her emotional and social development. Her facade wouldn't connect to genuine friends, because she wouldn't be genuine either. Therefore, her success would rather isolate her, and forcing her to lead a grey life without happiness. She had noone to share happiness or sadness with. No real person would listen and appreciate her successes either, and the admiration of "the society" were only an insufficient surrogate.

The Birth and the Function of her Diary

We believe that this was the function of her diary, which she so desperately guarded. Here, the Inner Tsukasa was writing down her life, her frustrations, and her thoughts which she couldn't share with anybody. In a way, it was her way to deal with whatever gave her a hard time. Some kind of offline-blog, talking to herself. It also explains why the contents would be damaging enough that she "couldn't come to school anymore" if they'd ever come out.

We could see in episode 3 how much she was annoyed at the laziness and pettiness of the three bitches. Her Facade would have never allowed to show her anger - instead, it rather demanded that she would go through a humiliating insincere teary apology, sacrificing her (absolutely justified) anger and pride for the sake of ultimate success. In the past, she probably would have made an entry in the diary - this time, she did it in person, with disastrous results.

This is how Junichi uncovered the "Inner" Tsukasa - when he picked up the diary. Tsukasa believed that he had actually read it, and that there was no need to maintain the Facade towards him anymore. It also proves that Ayatsuji has no split or bipolar personality: The Inner Tsukasa is always in control - she was able to drop the Facade in a second.

The Junichi Effect

But now, something completely unexpected happened: Unlike what she encountered in the past, Junichi accepted the Inner Ayatsuji. While initially she just wanted to intimidate him into keeping the secret, he stuck around her voluntarily. He obviously enjoyed being with her, he even said so. So mystifying!

He was enjoying being with HER, with the true Inner Tsukasa. She found the acceptance she was denied in the past, and she could STILL accomplish things. So she decided to try going with less and less of the facade. Even after she snapped at the Three Bitches and gave them a verbal whiplash, and the retribution seemed to come the day after at dodgeball, something even more amazing happened: Not only Junichi, but even new friends came to her defense. And Junichi didn't reject her either. This could be working!!

The Burning of the Diary and her Confession

This was when she decided to give her true, Inner personality a chance. The burning of the diary right before her confession was a highly symbolic act. "I don't need the diary anymore, I now have HIM to talk to instead."

The form of the confession indicated that she still had ALOT to learn when dealing with people. "Please become mine" isn't exactly the romantic textbook form to do it, but the genuine and even slightly desperate way she elaborated her thoughts and intentions was honest and touching. She was nervous because she was risking alot - it should be noted that she burned her diary FIRST before asking him. What would she have done had he rejected her confession?

Catastrophe - Miscommunication Kills the Inner Ayatsuji

When we start to analyze the key scene of episode 3, we should remind ourselves that Junichi doesn't know anything about all this. He only wants to help Ayatsuji achieve her goal, a full success of the festival, but he has no clue about the demons that haunt her, and he knows nothing about Inner and Facade, no matter how much he might say or think that he understands Tsukasa.

So late at night, Tsukasa stays back to work even more, sending off Junichi under a pretext. But she's exceptionally relieved and glad to see him there, willing to help her out - after all, she's under tremendous pressure, since she decided that she wouldn't use Facade to manipulate people into helping her anymore. And this is where Junichi is stepping on a huge landmine.

To better illustrate the catastrophe on the meta-level, I will add a second dialog line in Italics to circumphrase what Tsukasa was hearing and trying to say.

J: Don't you think we should ask for everyone's help again?
J: We need the help of the Three Bitches to succeed.

T: Huh? Are you being serious?
T: Oi, you can't possibly be serious!

J: Well, we won't make it at this rate.
J: I am. Otherwise you're going to fail.

T: Umehara-kun and the others are helping already.
T: We got all the help we could get without hypocrisy already.

J: But I'm sure you know their help alone isn't enough!
J: Not enough! You know we need the power of the Facade!

T: I'll work all night... I'll do anything if it comes down to it!
T: NO WAY! I can do this without faking. I can do it!

J: And what if you collapse again?!
J: No way you can pull this off as you are!

T: Anyway, I won't ask for help.
T: I just stopped with the Facade! I CAN'T DO THIS!!

J: Why not?! That's not like you! Aren't you someone who confidently handles situations like this?! Actually, you'd take care of it even-
J: What happened to you? You used to be so great before! You could pull this off in the past! Without your Facade, you can't do ANYTHING anymore!

T: What do you mean, not like me?! You think you know anything about me? I'm asking you what you think you know!
T: For the love of god, do you even understand what you're saying here? Do you love the Facade, or do you love me?

J: But I do know. You're giving it your all for the Festival. That's why you should apologize to everyone and ask for their help again.
J: What a silly question, the Facade, of course. Anything for the final victory, what else? So fake an apology and rope them in!

*slap*

J: Why? Why do you say things like that even though you know?
J: If you know me, as you say, how can you tell me to do the opposite of what I'm trying so hard to do?

What Junichi achieved was essentially to tell Tsukasa that her true, Inner personality was insufficient. He liked her Facade, not her. Naturally that's not in the remotest way what he REALLY wanted to say. But this is what she heard. A catastrophe born in miscommunication.

The Broken Ayatsuji: Hardcore Facade up to Self-Denial

After the guy she loved rejected her true, Inner being once more (her parents were the first), the heartbroken Tsukasa gives up. The saying is "once bitten, twice shy", and that was the second bite she got. So she tries to purge the remains of her true, Inner personality for the sake of a successful festival! And to stay close to the guy she has feelings for! He wants the Facade! So be it. I'm obviously worthless anyway.

This is why Ayatsuji started to talk about that "stubborn girl" that doesn't "exist anymore". While in the past, she was wearing the Facade while she felt she had to, she is now trying to deny her real personality and BECOME the Facade. The Inner Ayatsuji is trying to commit emotional suicide and leave the Facade behind. Isn't that what you wanted? Let's kiss and celebrate!

Chilling and terribly tragic.

How to Undo the Damage

Junichi has picked up that something terrible happened, and that the girl he loved has somehow disappeared ("Where did the Ayatsuji-san I fell in love with go?") - the hope is that he can somehow make heads and tails out of the situation, and that he can convince Tsukasa that it's indeed her INNER personality that he loved. That she's the victim of a catastrophic misunderstanding, and that things are not as they seem for her.

This, in itself, is quite a refreshing deviation from the usual formula of asymmetrical romances between a peculiar, strong-willed girl and the default male lead. Normally, it's the "Taming of the Beast" to make love happen. Here, it's the opposite - Junichi needs to resuscitate the beast in Ayatsuji.

Final Verdict

Presuming that this analysis is mostly correct, kudos for an exceptionally interesting character study. The only downside is that 4 episode were far too few to properly develop things - there are too many puzzle pieces to collect and put together for this complicated story to work. 6 episodes would have been much better.

I should add that with the complete picture, several aspects from the manga, which I filed away under "she's a really multifaceted and mysterious personality" suddenly become much more clear and understandable. So, in a reversal of my first note, I now rate the anime above the manga. It also fits like a glove with the ED.

This is the result of several hours of post-reflection and discussion. It's _impossible_ to do all this while watching. What were they thinking? ^_^;

Other than that, what a fascinating arc!
Mentar is online now  
Old 2010-12-10, 10:28   Link #40
kache
Asobo~
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Italy
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
It's worse than that. Much worse. Reread what KeyBoard wrote, he summed it up very well.

Spoiler for since the ep isn't out yet...:


It will be interesting to see how he will manage to undo the damage...
Wait, but how is this possible? It's not that easy to remove a part of the personality. It takes years and a shitload of work to do something like this, not one night.
__________________
Sorry for the poor english.
The italian schools don't care very much about proper foreign languages teaching


Watching at the moment: click on the image.

kache is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.