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Old 2012-03-20, 23:54   Link #2521
Byakou
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Found this on the bioware forums. Brilliant :P
Sung at the Major General's Song.

**Lyrics by The Wumpus**

I am the very model of a Mass Effect enthusiast,

I’ve socialized with fans, the undiscerning and the choosiest,

I’ve met up with Salarians, and Turians, and Quarians,

While fighting mercs and Geth and husks and brutes and thugs and Thorians,

When I became a Spectre and went hunting for the Conduit,

They thought I couldn’t do it, but in no time I was onto it,

I showed them all the benefits of rooting for humanity,

And freed a fallen Spectre from his crippling insanity,

There’d never been a battle like the storming of the Citadel,

My crew and I came charging in, all loaded up to give ‘em hell,

We celebrated, all of us, the sober and the booziest,

I am the very model of a Mass Effect enthusiast.

It wasn’t too long after that, my ship was blown to smithereens,

I tumbled out and fell through space with all my vitals withering,

A faction of supremacists began resuscitating me,

And little did they know they almost all would soon be hating me,

They showered me with presents like a newlywed on honeymoon,

I happily accepted while my crewman sang a funny tune,

They sent me on a mission that was tantamount to suicide,

But I came back with everyone because I read the user guide.

My crew was all the stronger with the new recruits and veterans,

Miranda came a-knocking, and I took a drink and let her in,

I love the head of Cerberus, ‘cause he is the Illusiest,

I am the very model of a Mass Effect enthusiast.

The Reapers fell from Heaven and began to ravage all the Earth,

I rallied all the galaxy to fight as one, for all it’s worth,

If someone wrote it down, there’d be an epic scene on every page,

Like when the funny crewman gave his life to cure the Genophage,

With every passing day, the fighting took a catastrophic toll,

We saved the Geth and Quarians, because this unit has a soul,

And I could spend all day just reminiscing through the battle list,

I loved it up until the confrontation with the Catalyst…

I wish I could have earned some kind of closure with my loyal crew,

Or smacked the kid upside the head, ‘cause he can’t tell me what to do,

But even thought that slap across my face left me the bruisiest,

I’m still the very model of a Mass Effect enthusiast!
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Old 2012-03-21, 00:13   Link #2522
Elestia
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There's a new updated video on the indoctrination theory by ACAVYOS, it adds about 7 minutes of new spliced footage from Saren in ME 1 and other evidence that points to the conspiracy theory.

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Old 2012-03-21, 00:26   Link #2523
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Realistically, you can still have many of those types of DLCs. The lack of mass relays does not prevent individual world stories from being told, only intergalatic stories (there are still undoubtedly Geth and Quarians on Rannoch, so any story about there continued existence together could be quite good; the same goes for the Krogan trying to live in a world where they cannot breed without limits; or even a new world where a variety of refugees must come together to inhabit their new home despite xeno differences). Truthfully, any story in the post relay world could be extraordinarily interesting and even provocative.

That being said, I strongly hope for a DLC similar to Dragon Age's "Darkspawn Chronicles" where the final battle is fought without a Shepard character and everyone is eventually killed. That would be fun .
The issue here is that yes, you CAN tell new stories in this world without mass relays. The problem is it throws out so many existing settings that it would become foreign. Much like how the Genophage radically altered the Krogans, the loss of the Relays can make the planets unrecognisable.

We barely know ANYTHING about the Mass Effect world even after three games. I think it is a dreadful waste to smash it all up before we actually know any of it.

In short...
Why even give us a new world? We want to see the old world first. The war setting in ME3 made it impossible to stop and smell the roses.
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:02   Link #2524
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
In short...
Why even give us a new world? We want to see the old world first. The war setting in ME3 made it impossible to stop and smell the roses.
I am not sure about this "we", since I never had a problem with the experience on the "old world", but I do understand your point. Honestly, I am content with Shepard's story being over. I may not like the conclusion (though, I have none of the vitriol that many others have displayed), but unless Bioware is willing to provide some new ending (which I doubt) or extended ending (which may be possible), then I can only hope they can make some compelling DLC without Shepard (which they easily can...if they so desire).

Truthfully, I'm kind of hoping that Bioware will give us something like the ending to Silicon Knights' Eternal Darkness where we are forced to replay the story 3 times (to completion, each with the "different" ending), only for a 4th hidden ending to be revealed after each option has been chosen. Or something to that effect. I'm already going to replay the game multiple times (if only because I have different save files with different actions that I want to see played out), so having an extra easter egg at the end would be grand, and relatively easy to put in.
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:16   Link #2525
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I am not sure about this "we", since I never had a problem with the experience on the "old world", but I do understand your point. Honestly, I am content with Shepard's story being over. I may not like the conclusion (though, I have none of the vitriol that many others have displayed), but unless Bioware is willing to provide some new ending (which I doubt) or extended ending (which may be possible), then I can only hope they can make some compelling DLC without Shepard (which they easily can...if they so desire).

Truthfully, I'm kind of hoping that Bioware will give us something like the ending to Silicon Knights' Eternal Darkness where we are forced to replay the story 3 times (to completion, each with the "different" ending), only for a 4th hidden ending to be revealed after each option has been chosen. Or something to that effect. I'm already going to replay the game multiple times (if only because I have different save files with different actions that I want to see played out), so having an extra easter egg at the end would be grand, and relatively easy to put in.
Most people who have played ME 1 and 2 would have planned to have multiple saves, each with different Shepards, with the explicit idea of seeing different endings for the ME3 conclusion.

Of course, that desire is currently not possible. It would remain to be seen if Bioware actually WANT people to play the game more than once, because currently there is no reason to. Unless you LIKE the Synthesis ending (which I don't), or if you are fine with genociding the Geth (which I am not), It is literally pointless in trying to raise the readiness rating. Right now the universe is better off to let the Reapers win, and just let the next cycle's civilization finish the job.
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:36   Link #2526
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I guess I do not stress over the ending simply because I`ve always felt the journey mattered more than the conclusion, and, honestly, the ending wasn`t too surprising. To each there own, though.
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Old 2012-03-21, 01:44   Link #2527
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I guess I do not stress over the ending simply because I`ve always felt the journey mattered more than the conclusion, and, honestly, the ending wasn`t too surprising. To each there own, though.
Actually, the issue here is that the conclusion affected the journey.

Making peace deals, curing the Genophage, and any other major choices you made through out the games, were all literally wiped out by the conclusion. The Synthesis option is actually the worst one.
Spoiler for ending:

The giant reset button cannot be viewed in isolation. Your "Journey" is meant to mean something, but if in the end all the sacrifices were pointless, then what does it mean anymore?
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Old 2012-03-21, 07:33   Link #2528
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Actually, the issue here is that the conclusion affected the journey.

Making peace deals, curing the Genophage, and any other major choices you made through out the games, were all literally wiped out by the conclusion. The Synthesis option is actually the worst one.
Spoiler for ending:

The giant reset button cannot be viewed in isolation. Your "Journey" is meant to mean something, but if in the end all the sacrifices were pointless, then what does it mean anymore?
Not really. You are only offered "options" based on the good you do in the universe (okay, not the "good" you do, but your military readiness which is directly impacted by the choices you make concerning many species, in which case the Paragon options generally increase you readiness more than the Rengade options). So, the more you do to "help" the universe, the more choices you are given at the end of the game (even if you only get 3 choices...which I guess is true of most instances in the game (in fact, often you only get 2 choices, and many times they are forced on you).

Do I wish there were more choices (or at least better choices)? Yes, of course. But, it is plainly obvious that the final 3 choices (if you can even get all 3), no matter how potentially contrary, are directly influenced by your "journey". Consequently, the ending(s) are based on your sacrifices, even if not to the extent many wish.

That being said, I guess your partially right, my focus on the "journey" can't be totally made in a vacuum. But, I guess I am more at peace with the ending(s) than I thought .
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Old 2012-03-21, 08:11   Link #2529
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
That being said, I guess your partially right, my focus on the "journey" can't be totally made in a vacuum. But, I guess I am more at peace with the ending(s) than I thought .
I guess it is only possible for you because you don't think of the endings as pure evil.

Because I do. The universe was better off if Shepard was never born. It is one thing to have a sad ending. But it is entirely another that the universe was worse off because of Shepard's actions.

This is no different from James Bond reaching Ernst Stavro Blofeld, only to be told that he gets to choose which of the three American cities he would nuke.
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Old 2012-03-21, 08:56   Link #2530
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post

I guess it is only possible for you because you don't think of the endings as pure evil.
a

LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
This is no different from James Bond reaching Ernst Stavro Blofeld, only to be told that he gets to choose which of the three American cities he would nuke.
This reminded me of Henry Fonda in Fail-Safe.

That being said, I certainly respect the criticism that the endings were weak, but I disagree with the notion that Shepard hasn't made similar decisions in the past. The only difference is the size and scope of the outcome. Killing the Rachni or not. Killing Wrek or not. Choosing Kaiden or Ashley. Mornith or Samara. Geth or Quarian (one of the few dilemmas that allowed for a third choice). All of these and more were decisions that either affected the team but they could affect the entire galaxy. The endings are simply an extension of these type of choices, and while not my preffered endings, there ramifications are no different than anything else Shepard had arbitrated in the past, the size is simply different (to use your analogy, Shepard has already had the choice to kill off several cities during his campaign before he even got to the finale, this is especially true if you play a more renegade lifestyle).

p.s. I find it funny that you have Blofeld targeting American cities when a British city would matter more to James Bond . Additionally, since the game ends in London, that seems to be the natural chose for your analogy...
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Old 2012-03-21, 09:12   Link #2531
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
a

LOL.



This reminded me of Henry Fonda in Fail-Safe.

That being said, I certainly respect the criticism that the endings were weak, but I disagree with the notion that Shepard hasn't made similar decisions in the past. The only difference is the size and scope of the outcome. Killing the Rachni or not. Killing Wrek or not. Choosing Kaiden or Ashley. Mornith or Samara. Geth or Quarian (one of the few dilemmas that allowed for a third choice). All of these and more were decisions that either affected the team but they could affect the entire galaxy. The endings are simply an extension of these type of choices, and while not my preffered endings, there ramifications are no different than anything else Shepard had arbitrated in the past, the size is simply different (to use your analogy, Shepard has already had the choice to kill off several cities during his campaign before he even got to the finale, this is especially true if you play a more renegade lifestyle).

p.s. I find it funny that you have Blofeld targeting American cities when a British city would matter more to James Bond . Additionally, since the game ends in London, that seems to be the natural chose for your analogy...
See, you are missing my point; that Shepard's existence in the galaxy did not generate a net gain for the universe.

The three choices are simply the three different ways the Reapers would win. That's why the choices were given; Shepard gets NOTHING out of it.

Let me repeat, Shepard could blow his own brains out with his pistol right there, and the universe would be better off than the three choices he was force to make. The Crucible should never have been activated, which means the entire goal of ME3, the activation of the Crucible, was a waste of time.

Which means the entire ME3 game was a waste of time.

The Choices:
Spoiler for ending spoilers...:
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Old 2012-03-21, 10:10   Link #2532
killer3000ad
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Ray Muzyka, co-founder of Bioware has released this statement on his blog.
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/
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Old 2012-03-21, 10:15   Link #2533
james0246
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Spoiler for ending spoilers...:


Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
Ray Muzyka, co-founder of Bioware has released this statement on his blog.
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/
Very nicely stated. I don't know if anything will really come from this mini-debacle, but I do hope this will reafirm Bioware's intial business and prduction models.
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Old 2012-03-21, 10:34   Link #2534
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
Ray Muzyka, co-founder of Bioware has released this statement on his blog.
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/
Finally. A response from Bioware that isn't PR stalling.

To be honest, part of the rage generated thus far is caused by the news media. What with people who never played the game trying to tell players to grow up, telling players that they never had any right to choose endings to begin with, that gaming is not important enough to make a fuss about, that they are children.

Bioware had not be going so far as to insult the gamers. But every news outlet HAS. And by being so silent, it makes Bioware seem supportive of all those insulting game commentators.

Look, Bioware messed up. Most likely because of deadlines. It happens to every company making anything of worth. But they really should have seen the writing on the wall. No one is being fooled, anyone can tell that the ending sequence was many times inferior to the rest of the game. I am prepared to believe things outside their controlled had occurred. But none the less, they handled the aftermath badly.

It seriously sounded like they thought they could get away with an inferior ending. After all, it is only ten minutes. They just don't realise how bad it would feel for players.

This reminded me of the Making of Video of tLotR Trilogy. In it, they actually rushed the filming of the coronation and kiss in the conclusion of The Return of the King. None of the actors or production crew liked it, but they had ran out of time to do it right. It SUCKED.
Guess what? Peter Jackson got the crew beck together three years later, and re-shoot the Return of the King ending. And the fixed scene was what you saw in the final film.

Being rush for time happens. The question is if you are prepared to fix it. Peter Jackson and his crew ended up with a basket of Oscars, because they are willing to fix what was done wrong.

The only thing worse than fixing a mistake, is to not fix it.

EDIT:
As for whether the new ending(s) would be free or not...

They should copy an idea from Nintendo. Nintendo has a 3DS game recently where they offer DLC that is free on release. As in, Nintendo rewards players who buy the game right now. And will only start to charge for the DLC months or a year down the track when the game isn't new any more. Clever, as this improves sales of the game when it s full price and not discounted. And by the time it isn't free any more the gamers can't complain for waiting too long.
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Old 2012-03-21, 10:48   Link #2535
mrShady
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
Ray Muzyka, co-founder of Bioware has released this statement on his blog.
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/
Right.... so bioware didn't had a clue what their diehard fans expected from the finale.... So either they never used fanbase feedback/input when creating the mass effect 3 finale or the person at bioware that's responsible for community feedback/player input and whatnot failed on a astronomical scale when reporting in.

I can understand that what fans expect and what will actually happen is going to be different, but how on earth can you do the exact opposite as to what your fanbase wants and not notice during development. Also why is the rest of the game a great continuation of what came before (mass effect 1 and 2) and the ending does not reflect any of this. Artistic license my ass there's has to be more to this then what we are being told.
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Old 2012-03-21, 11:00   Link #2536
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Also why is the rest of the game a great continuation of what came before (mass effect 1 and 2) and the ending does not reflect any of this. Artistic license my ass there's has to be more to this then what we are being told.
The untold truth is that they ran out of time. Unlike Blizzard or Valve, Bioware doesn't have the means to just push the deadline back when necessary. Signs of a rushed ending production is jarring because it is so different from the rest of the game.

But Bioware will never admit that. They are too big a game company to be allowed to be 100% honest.
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Old 2012-03-21, 12:26   Link #2537
Drake
dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ
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I don't really buy in to the whole indoctrination theory it just looks like people are grasping at straws in an attempt to find closure or make sense of the endings.

Spoiler for Spoilers:
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Old 2012-03-21, 12:52   Link #2538
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Slightly off-topic but FF13-2 getting Mass Effect armor DLC
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Old 2012-03-21, 12:56   Link #2539
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by mrShady View Post
Right.... so bioware didn't had a clue what their diehard fans expected from the finale.... So either they never used fanbase feedback/input when creating the mass effect 3 finale or the person at bioware that's responsible for community feedback/player input and whatnot failed on a astronomical scale when reporting in.

I can understand that what fans expect and what will actually happen is going to be different, but how on earth can you do the exact opposite as to what your fanbase wants and not notice during development. Also why is the rest of the game a great continuation of what came before (mass effect 1 and 2) and the ending does not reflect any of this. Artistic license my ass there's has to be more to this then what we are being told.
I'm pretty sure they'll just release a press detailing the endings and explaining it rather than having to add on new endings and hope for the best.

I mean they've been so adamant in defending the ending and such I'm having a hard time believing they'll budge at all.

Short term? Sure. But long term? People will remember this and they'll end up alienating a lot of people.

At the same time he notes about working on DLC's so I'm not sure why when they've pretty much destroyed the universe (or isolated it). I mean with the stargazer scene it's obvious that space travel has more or less been dampened and it'll take time to rebuild.
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Old 2012-03-21, 12:56   Link #2540
SagaraSouske
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Indoctrination theory exists because there are too many inconsistency in story telling. Both in ME3 with the dream sequence, ending and through the entire series on the origin of Reaper.

I think the biggest problem with the ending is that a ton of people feel emotionally attached to Shepard as he/she is essentially the avatar of the player and they feel like they are actually immersed in the Mass Effect universe and seeing everything and making decision through Shepard. Some people that do not feel as strongly about the ending is probably less attached to the characters and ME universe. The players that do have a strong emotional attachment, however, felt betrayed by the ending. It is as if all their efforts they put in since ME1 have just became pointless. These players 'do' want a 'Shepard wins' ending. They want to see all their efforts through Shepard bears fruit to a satisfying conclusion - that Shepard is able to save the galaxy due to these efforts and not some random decisions forced upon him as the ending have it. EMS should matter, the allies and friends made should matter, and especially everything Shepard have sacrificed should matter. but it wasn't with the ending as it is.

Another major factor, for those more engaged with all the squad members, is that they want to see what happened to them, whether they died fighting a good fight that helped the victory or they were able to survive and have a new life in the aftermath. The ending didn't provide full closure on characters that were brought to life especially in ME2 and 3 and that was the other major disappointment players have with the ending.

If they address these two points by making Shepard's decisions through the 3 games matter in a way to effect the outcome against the reapers and add additional cut scenes to address each major character, it would have been a successful ending but I guess they didn't have enough time.
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