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Old 2013-04-07, 11:28   Link #3721
Rising Dragon
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Which, sadly, doesn't change the fact that a good deal of the ending, whichever chosen, is a complete and utter disappointment. Never mind the lie perpetrated by BioWare across the three games.
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Old 2013-04-07, 14:41   Link #3722
Eragon
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The problem is the lack of basis to make your decision on. I mean, throughout all three games Shepard is pretty much against the green and blue choices - the only exception being when you save the Collector homeworld - meaning you side with TIM. But, even then its still about destroying the Reapers.

These choices were never explored properly. Synthesis even more so. I would have chosen Destroy if it did not come at the cost of destroying the Geth completely.

The choices in and of themselves are fine. The buildup - or lack thereof - to them(the other Blue and Green ones) is where Bioware failed.
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Old 2013-04-07, 15:25   Link #3723
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So uh.. what's stopping the mecha chtulu from crapping out a perfect copy of shepard? =\ lol
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Old 2013-04-07, 15:34   Link #3724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Which, sadly, doesn't change the fact that a good deal of the ending, whichever chosen, is a complete and utter disappointment. Never mind the lie perpetrated by BioWare across the three games.
What lie are you talking about?
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Old 2013-04-07, 16:07   Link #3725
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
What lie are you talking about?
That the ending wouldn't just be about choosing between colours? That your decisions in all three games have meaningful consequences?
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Old 2013-04-07, 16:13   Link #3726
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
What lie are you talking about?
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
That the ending wouldn't just be about choosing between colours? That your decisions in all three games have meaningful consequences?
This, pretty much. That each player would have an ending unique to their playthrough due to the choices they made throughout their game. They promised that since the first game, and in the end, it all meant precisely dick.
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Old 2013-04-07, 16:31   Link #3727
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
What lie are you talking about?
Bioware made a lot of promises and pre-release hype about all your decisions throughout the series mattering in the end, and how ME3 would have alot of different endings.
Quote:
Below are statements from various sources about Mass Effect 3 in particular the ending, which are simply not true as it stands at the moment. Do I want to be proved wrong? Hell yes! But, these comments should be kept clear:

Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike anyother, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/02/28/ma...3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.financialpost.com/20...all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people “

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com...issing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazine.co.uk/intervi...erent-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...e-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to providesome answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/02/ca...ans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”

Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...ostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”

Hudson:“Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.”
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Old 2013-04-07, 16:37   Link #3728
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Maybe I'm just really jaded, but I never expected those promises to be fulfilled. Most Western-made RPGs don't have much of an "ending" beyond a handful of title cards and maybe a narrative of "what happens after the end."

I don't expect big, long cutscene endings in Western RPGs. That's always been more of a JRPG thing--I mean, the ending cutscene for The 3rd Birthday was almost fifteen minutes long. For a niche PSP title with a small cult following.

They may have promised more than that, but I wasn't expecting that. What I was expecting was an ending that made sense and had no plot holes, even if it was a pretty lame "title card" ending with a ~1 minute cutscene (standard for Western RPGs these days). What made me upset was the Deus Ex Exposition Kid and how the writing just fell apart right at the end.

The Extended Cut DLC and Leviathan DLC fixed this to some degree, but it's still bad, which is a shame, since the rest of ME3 is really well-written and well-paced. The game is gold, except for the ending, which is mediocre, even by the standards of modern PC game endings, which are on average mediocre.
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Old 2013-04-07, 16:50   Link #3729
ArchmageXin
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Anyone want to know why Mass Effect 3's ending sucked?

Look at the date of release.

3/6/12.

Why is this significant? The fiscal year of EA is 3/31/12.

Look at their financials from 2007 through 2012

http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASD...ZChD8W40QHtsAE

They have not made money since end of 2007. That is right, EA was bleeding $$$$ for five years. Name any company you seriously want to invest in for five years and did nothing but bleed cash.

Right.

So they had to release ME right before the Fiscal period ended, duct tape some ending to make it work, and sell it to the masses.

LOOK O_O, all of a sudden EA came net income POSITIVE after 5 years. The common gamers were fooled because they were used to impress Wall Street, and Wall Street were fooled because they thought EA finally made a good turn around.
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Old 2013-04-07, 20:15   Link #3730
Eragon
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Yeah, they shouldn't have publicized/promised such diversity for the finale - fans wouldn't have got their hopes up and hence, not felt so betrayed later.
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Old 2013-04-07, 21:09   Link #3731
ArchmageXin
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Originally Posted by Eragon View Post
Yeah, they shouldn't have publicized/promised such diversity for the finale - fans wouldn't have got their hopes up and hence, not felt so betrayed later.
See my post above. Bioware had no choice. EA was a sinking ship after 5 years of straight loss. They had to rely on ME3 for a big breakthrough....so they duct-tape something together that hoped gamers wouldn't notice.
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Old 2013-04-07, 22:04   Link #3732
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I think part of the issue with the ending is also because, according to Padraig Weeks, Casey Hudson locked himself in a room alone to write the starchild bits. Everything else, according to Weeks, had been looked at by other writers- nobody was working in a vacuum.
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Old 2013-04-08, 00:06   Link #3733
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Originally Posted by Eragon View Post
http://www.strategyinformer.com/news...fect-3-endings



This was supposed to be what we were going to get, apparently. Why they changed is anyone's guess. Did they change the writer or something for the third game?

*If this has been brought up before, then ignore it.
It's been brought up before

and my conclusion is it's just as stupid

try to stop the expansion of dark energy with humans is like trying to stop gravity with rats

not.. gonna.. happen..
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Old 2013-04-08, 01:10   Link #3734
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
I think part of the issue with the ending is also because, according to Padraig Weeks, Casey Hudson locked himself in a room alone to write the starchild bits. Everything else, according to Weeks, had been looked at by other writers- nobody was working in a vacuum.
Combining this with the aforementioned financial snafu of EA's, and EA's infamous tendencies to horribly abuse their developers... Hudson probably frantically wrote out an ending under the threat of losing his job.
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Old 2013-04-08, 08:48   Link #3735
Om Nerabdator
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wonder when they are gonna give us what we really want?

A DLC that focus's on diff endings,

with the amount of stuff they promised in the above post there should be 20+.....hell ill be happy with 10(what you say 10 too much) they have been promising us the ending was gonna be different for each of us depending on all of our choices through all three games, but only 2!? which has nothing to do with how we played all three games....theres just way too many swear words and insults i want to throw in here so ill end my rant here lol
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Old 2013-04-08, 09:45   Link #3736
ArchmageXin
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Originally Posted by Om Nerabdator View Post
wonder when they are gonna give us what we really want?

A DLC that focus's on diff endings,

with the amount of stuff they promised in the above post there should be 20+.....hell ill be happy with 10(what you say 10 too much) they have been promising us the ending was gonna be different for each of us depending on all of our choices through all three games, but only 2!? which has nothing to do with how we played all three games....theres just way too many swear words and insults i want to throw in here so ill end my rant here lol
Try never.
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Old 2013-04-08, 10:24   Link #3737
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Citadel DLC is the last single-player expansion for ME3, according to Word of God.

Also, don't you think you're asking for a bit much? The cost of developing a game is already wildly out of control, with game budgets rapidly approaching Hollywood budgets, but nowhere near that widespread and general a market.

Most big-name games from big-name devs and publishers have to sell over a million copies to break even, much less become profitable. This is why we see so many sequels, so many remakes, so many retreads of old concepts--the industry can't take a risk on an unproven IP when the numbers they have to reach are so high.

I suspect this will result in another game industry crash like the one caused by Atari in the 1980s, only this time the industry is a multi-billion dollar industry that's almost (but not quite) mainstream. The pain will be felt much more acutely this time, but I believe it needs to happen. The industry desperately needs a wake-up call. These graphics/specs arms-races aren't profitable for anyone, and judging by the popularity of mobile gaming, most customers don't care about bleeding-edge graphics--they care that the game is fun.

And really, isn't that the whole point?
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Old 2013-04-08, 10:27   Link #3738
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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The greatest issue with the three endings offered, was that they were irrelevant to the main plot.

Instead of Dark Energy, EA tried to pretend this franchise is all about killing robots. That we are suppose to take the Geth vs organics war as the true purpose of all three games. Destroy kills all robots, Synthesis turns machines and organics into hybrids, and Control just have the Reapers stop fighting (but with doubts on how long the new Reaper Hivemind can stay sane.)

The issue isn't that the choices are silly, but that the choices are meaningless. Only the Reapers and Reapers alone care about the antagonism between Synthetics and Organics, so to build two out of three endings around something Shepard hasn't been fighting for, is just strange.
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Old 2013-04-08, 10:27   Link #3739
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Combining this with the aforementioned financial snafu of EA's, and EA's infamous tendencies to horribly abuse their developers... Hudson probably frantically wrote out an ending under the threat of losing his job.
That makes no sense though. Did EA look at the ending and said, "Casey this sucks...fix it?"

I don't think it would've made a difference to EA had Casey just let his writers...you know...do their job.

Quote:
Instead of Dark Energy, EA tried to pretend this franchise is all about killing robots. That we are suppose to take the Geth vs organics war as the true purpose of all three games. Destroy kills all robots, Synthesis turns machines and organics into hybrids, and Control just have the Reapers stop fighting (but with doubts on how long the new Reaper Hivemind can stay sane.)

The issue isn't that the choices are silly, but that the choices are meaningless. Only the Reapers and Reapers alone care about the antagonism between Synthetics and Organics, so to build two out of three endings around something Shepard hasn't been fighting for, is just strange.
You know what's funny though?

If you get FROM THE ASHES DLC Javik is the most prominent one that explores the Synthetics vs. Organics which is on the same line as the Reapers' thought.

When details of the DLC was revealed Casey stated that it would have very little impact to the game yet Javik's discussion about the Synthetics vs. Organics has more relevance to the endings than either EDI, Legion or the Geth in general.

It's like no matter how hard or well you defend EDI or the Geth, Javik turns out being the "correct" one in that Shepard should've destroyed them right off from the start since because it's "inevitable" they'll rebel despite the fact that EDI explores options on why she turned out the way she did and such.
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Old 2013-04-08, 10:32   Link #3740
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The dark energy plot was honestly just as stupid as the idea that all robots will always rebel against their creators. It was dumb when Gurren-Lagann did it, but that show is firmly tongue-in-cheek to begin with, so the plot's silliness makes more sense.

Besides, doesn't that create a plot hole, anyway? Sovereign said that the Reapers built the mass relays and use them to guide technological development to make the harvest more efficient. If the Reapers were worried about dark energy caused by mass effect technology causing a problem... WHY would they encourage people to use mass effect technology that spews dark energy all over the place?
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