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Old 2012-02-23, 11:39   Link #1721
BetoJR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by com_gwp View Post
^Thing is Bioware has never put out a complete collection of anything.
Exactly. That's my point.
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Old 2012-02-23, 12:07   Link #1722
Flying Dagger
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well... once upon a time these "DLCs" were patches that were released for free...
tbh I wouldn't mind as much if they do a very good job fixing various bugs and balance the game, plus pack the game with many hours of content.
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Old 2012-02-23, 16:18   Link #1723
ZeroForever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
New video from TB. Apparently he's not very happy about the day 1 DLC.

http://youtu.be/Ri0vrJ-y2zM
the main issue i have with the DLC is that this release day character dlc was part of the game in both DA1, DA2, ME2 if you bought any new copy.
Now it's only if you get it with the 80 dollar collectors edition unless you want to shell out another 10 if you got standard (which makes it 70... just to get the full experience).
Next it'll only be in the special 100 dollar collectors edition unless you want to shell out 20, really there just testing how far they can abuse/monetize their customer base.

personally I cancelled my pre-order 'standard edition' as I don't like the general direction which this is heading. I know plenty that are getting it regardless and i don't blame them as I like the series enough that I'll probably play it at some point but it'll prob be the 10 dollar sale version in 12 months, though with a origin bypass hack just because origin is crappy and them forcing me to use it is terrible.
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Old 2012-02-23, 17:00   Link #1724
Keroko
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I don't like how something so important to almost any loyal fan of Mass Effect is dangled in front of us. It's blackmail, plain and simple, and I don't like it one bit.

But my main problem is that Bioware's lying about it. Right now they're claiming the DLC was developed by a separate team after the core game was finished, but the content were already known a long time back through the leaks, and even know voice files are pulled from the demo, which is an old build.

They know they're going to get away with it. It's ME3, the end of a long ride, the culmination of all our choices and fights. Few people are going to have the resolve to boycot it. I know I don't. And that's what annoys me the most.

I will buy ME3, but they've torn my loyalty is torn to shreds. Unless Bioware changes their marketing, I am going to think really hard the next time Bioware brings out a new game.
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Old 2012-02-23, 17:16   Link #1725
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Wow, I actually agree with TB. How am I suppose to be irrationally angry at him for this and complain?

I can understand guns and armors, but whole characters and storylines? 10 dollars for a huge important character seems going too far. Past Bioware's story DLC added extra stories, but did not impede the main story. By impede I mean a storyline/character that is a bombshell for the story.

Putting my issues with Bioware aside, I truly hope this does not become a trend with Bioware or any other company.
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Old 2012-02-23, 17:30   Link #1726
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This might have been mentioned previously, but if you do not like what Bioware/EA has done, then simply buy the game used, effectively eliminating most of the profit from the developers/manufacturers. Sure, I’ll still have to pay full price for the DLC (though bundle deals could be released later), but I’ll probably only spend 30$ on the game so even with another 30$ for DLC I am still saving money and stopping Bioware/EZ from profiting off of their shenanigans.
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Old 2012-02-23, 17:32   Link #1727
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixl View Post
Wow, I actually agree with TB. How am I suppose to be irrationally angry at him for this and complain?

I can understand guns and armors, but whole characters and storylines? 10 dollars for a huge important character seems going too far. Past Bioware's story DLC added extra stories, but did not impede the main story. By impede I mean a storyline/character that is a bombshell for the story.

Putting my issues with Bioware aside, I truly hope this does not become a trend with Bioware or any other company.
I haven't seen the leaked script so I am not sure, but If you can beat the game without the character I don't think he is that important.
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Old 2012-02-23, 17:37   Link #1728
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@Terrestrial Dream, it is not about beating the game, it is about the story. Withholding a character that has been central to the Mass Effect Universe from the very beginning for 10 dollars is a terrible move in my opinion. Furthermore, for Bioware, a company that prides itself on making RPGs and stories, to cut parts of the story out, not because it is unfinished, but because they want to make more profit on a game that will already make profit is approaching ridiculous. It is purely milking their fanbase and it is sad that so many fans are praising them for it.

This is not a bonus story by the way, this was a character in the leaks. He is not a bonus character at all. He was in the game to begin with. There are even leaks of his dialogue between other crew members and Shepard. Only recently did they cut him out for DLC profit. And yes, he is important, especially if you took ME1 in high regard.

Essentially, Bioware has the story finished, they just decided to cut out parts of the story, because they they know they can get away with it.

Spoiler for The Character In question:


I would go farther, but I decided not to buy this game when I read the big dialogue leak, watched the leaked gameplay, and saw that I did not like the direction of this game. I would call myself lucky since I will not be one the people yanked around by Bioware. To clarify, I am sure people will love ME3, but I sincerely hope they never pull this crap ever again. For a company that prides itself on bringing the best story possible only to cut out a character/story so pivotal to the plot for DLC profits is pathetic in my opinion.

edit: I am also angry for another reason. How does Bioware not expect to spoil people with such a huge development by announcing DLC for it? Do they not think this character is a big deal? If not, I have to question whether it is the same people writing anymore.

Last edited by Nixl; 2012-02-23 at 18:12.
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Old 2012-02-24, 01:35   Link #1729
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Old 2012-02-24, 07:58   Link #1730
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I love the fact that people here are making it sound that Bioware is the first game company to do this sort of thing (*cough* Final Fantasy XIII-2 ending *cough* DLC *cough*). It's funny in a way, because as soon as any game company does something like this (*sarcasm* heaven forbid something like that should actually happen!), everyone gets upset.

Because that is exactly what I'm seeing here; a bunch of butt-hurt fanboys complaining over something stupid.

*shakes head in disappointment*


Here's my take on all this:
Am I disappointed that this sort of practice has become common place in the gaming industry? Yes.
Does this change my opinion of Bioware? No.
Does this make me think that people here are making too big a deal of things? Yes.
Does this change the fact that I'm still going to get Mass Effect 3 when I comes out? Nope.
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Old 2012-02-24, 08:40   Link #1731
Keroko
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I am quite aware it's hardly the first time this has happened. I fail to see, however, how that mkakes for a valid defence.

And yes, I'm hurt. I'm hurt because Bioware is charging ten dollars for content they know almost every fan wants to see. I'm hurt because they do it as a day one DLC. I'm hurt because they decided not to give it as insentive to buy first-hand as they did before with Shale and Zaeed but charge extra on the first day instead. I'm hurt because they're lying to us about what happened. I'm hurt because Bioware does this in the last game of an epic trilogy. I'm hurt because Bioware knows all this, and they know few people will have the strength to resist buying anyway.

I love the games Bioware makes, but this marketing plan of theirs will mean I, as a loyal customer, am being punished for being loyal. And that hurts.

Yes, I'm hurt. But I'm not hurt about something stupid.
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Last edited by Keroko; 2012-02-25 at 07:09.
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Old 2012-02-24, 08:56   Link #1732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biodude711 View Post
I love the fact that people here are making it sound that Bioware is the first game company to do this sort of thing (*cough* Final Fantasy XIII-2 ending *cough* DLC *cough*). It's funny in a way, because as soon as any game company does something like this (*sarcasm* heaven forbid something like that should actually happen!), everyone gets upset.

Because that is exactly what I'm seeing here; a bunch of butt-hurt fanboys complaining over something stupid.

*shakes head in disappointment*


Here's my take on all this:
Am I disappointed that this sort of practice has become common place in the gaming industry? Yes.
Does this change my opinion of Bioware? No.
Does this make me think that people here are making too big a deal of things? Yes.
Does this change the fact that I'm still going to get Mass Effect 3 when I comes out? Nope.
I fail to see why customers are not allowed to make a big deal of being fleeced.

ME3 is essentially ten dollars more than it is labelled as. For people who care about that sort of thing, it is dishonest.

You can buy the game anyway if you want; but just because you don't have a problem with it, doesn't mean other people shouldn't have issues.

And the classic "stop complaining! You are buying it anyway!" argument?

Don't assume everyone is like you.

Pricing of a product is important to business transactions. There is nothing stupid about it. Money is always serious.
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Old 2012-02-24, 08:58   Link #1733
blakstealth
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Does anyone know if the MP is down today?
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Old 2012-02-24, 09:06   Link #1734
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Well, to me at least, it's the final straw. I was still on the fence on whether to get ME3, and it pains me to leave it at ME2, but this is just too much. Cynically speaking, I suppose there will still be hordes of people buying ME3 and I suppose it is their right to do so, but count me out.

Le sigh.
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Old 2012-02-24, 09:07   Link #1735
Flying Dagger
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If people do not voice out their frustrations: the issue will only get worse. I am fine with buying the digital deluxe edition IF I know I will be getting every single future DLC for free: but that is not the case. Why must I help them promote the game (via various downloads such as apps, etc) and pay extra just to have a full ME3 experience?

Every single original character in ME2 can be taken out to become its own DLC without any influence on the plot. In fact the game can be sold with only Shepard and the various Ceberus missions.

@The "the DLC was made after game is complete" reply from bioware: I dare to ask, then why was the game not released earlier? They could have, say, ended the "development cycle" a year ago and just packed everything else into various DLCs.

At least EA has not fallen as low as ubisoft with their DRM, and not as bad as Activision with their 100s of DLCs.
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Old 2012-02-24, 09:26   Link #1736
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I didn't intend to make my previous post sound accusatory. If that is what people interpreted it to be, then I apologize, that wasn't my intention.
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Old 2012-02-24, 09:44   Link #1737
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixl View Post
edit: I am also angry for another reason. How does Bioware not expect to spoil people with such a huge development by announcing DLC for it? Do they not think this character is a big deal? If not, I have to question whether it is the same people writing anymore.
Spoiler for spoilers...:

Last edited by james0246; 2012-02-24 at 10:30.
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Old 2012-02-24, 11:48   Link #1738
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixl View Post
@Terrestrial Dream, it is not about beating the game, it is about the story. Withholding a character that has been central to the Mass Effect Universe from the very beginning for 10 dollars is a terrible move in my opinion. Furthermore, for Bioware, a company that prides itself on making RPGs and stories, to cut parts of the story out, not because it is unfinished, but because they want to make more profit on a game that will already make profit is approaching ridiculous. It is purely milking their fanbase and it is sad that so many fans are praising them for it.

This is not a bonus story by the way, this was a character in the leaks. He is not a bonus character at all. He was in the game to begin with. There are even leaks of his dialogue between other crew members and Shepard. Only recently did they cut him out for DLC profit. And yes, he is important, especially if you took ME1 in high regard.

Essentially, Bioware has the story finished, they just decided to cut out parts of the story, because they they know they can get away with it.

Spoiler for The Character In question:


I would go farther, but I decided not to buy this game when I read the big dialogue leak, watched the leaked gameplay, and saw that I did not like the direction of this game. I would call myself lucky since I will not be one the people yanked around by Bioware. To clarify, I am sure people will love ME3, but I sincerely hope they never pull this crap ever again. For a company that prides itself on bringing the best story possible only to cut out a character/story so pivotal to the plot for DLC profits is pathetic in my opinion.

edit: I am also angry for another reason. How does Bioware not expect to spoil people with such a huge development by announcing DLC for it? Do they not think this character is a big deal? If not, I have to question whether it is the same people writing anymore.
Ok I read the spoiler tag and I am still not sure if he is important to story as I can not judge without reading leaked script and playing the game. But beforehand few questions.
Even though he was in the leaked script that does not guarantee that he was meant to be in the original game. In Mass Effect 2 isn't there a placeholder for Kasumi? It is true that Kasumi did came after few months of Mass Effect 2, but that does prove that a dlc was being planned as they were making the game. And from what I read from Bioware they did say that he was finished after the game went into certification (but some people could say that this is a lie from Bioware).

But I suppose unlike Kasumi the ultimate question is whether or not this character important to the overall story. We don't know how much he will contribute to the story despite being what he is and if the game's story could progress without that just raises the question how important this character is to overall story. I think there are people who are making too much assumption about this character.

Even still I understand why some people are angry, there is that feeling that the consumers are not getting a full content right out of the box.

At this point if he is truly important to the plot Bioware should just release him for free and maybe give the CE people some kind of free gun or minor character dlc for free.
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Old 2012-02-24, 12:09   Link #1739
Nixl
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Personally, part of the anger is that this character was not made DLC because he was unfinished and couldn't make the release, but rather the opportunity to milk the fanbase became more of a priority than making the very best experience for the players. It is true that other companies sell DLC, but Bioware touted its position in the RPG market as bringing the very best stories possible for its fans. What happened to that sentiment?

Did they honestly believe the existence of this character did not add anything important to the story? Seriously, what happened to making the very best story possible for its fans? In past Bioware DLC bonus characters had stories separate from the plot, how do they explain this character being irrelevant to the main plot and thus only DLC worthy?

In the leaked beta there was dialogue and dev notes already written in place for this character. If he was made by a completely different team at a different time and place why would he even be in the beta leak?

What a joke.


Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Spoiler for spoilers...:
I understand and respect your point sir, but from Planescape Torment to Kotor 2 and beyond, I always thought the purpose of an RPG company was to make the most kickass story imaginable. Whether the character makes a big deal or not in the story pales in comparison to the fact that Bioware weakening the conclusion of a beloved franchise because it knows it can get away with it.

Perhaps a better way of stating it is, even if the development does not excite you, do you think this character would have added something unique and fun to the story? I think most people would say yes to some extent james, even if they were less than thrilled by the prospect of it.

I cannot rationalize why a company that states it makes only the best stories for its fans to do this. No matter how large or small of an impact this charcter would have made, they removed not because he was unfinished, but because they know they can get away with it.

edit: @ Terrestrial Dream, I am writing up my response in just a moment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Ok I read the spoiler tag and I am still not sure if he is important to story as I can not judge without reading leaked script and playing the game. But beforehand few questions.
Even though he was in the leaked script that does not guarantee that he was meant to be in the original game. In Mass Effect 2 isn't there a placeholder for Kasumi? It is true that Kasumi did came after few months of Mass Effect 2, but that does prove that a dlc was being planned as they were making the game. And from what I read from Bioware they did say that he was finished after the game went into certification (but some people could say that this is a lie from Bioware).

But I suppose unlike Kasumi the ultimate question is whether or not this character important to the overall story. We don't know how much he will contribute to the story despite being what he is and if the game's story could progress without that just raises the question how important this character is to overall story. I think there are people who are making too much assumption about this character.

Even still I understand why some people are angry, there is that feeling that the consumers are not getting a full content right out of the box.

At this point if he is truly important to the plot Bioware should just release him for free and maybe give the CE people some kind of free gun or minor character dlc for free.
Thank you for the response sir. To a degree, his level of importance is subjective. However, compared to Katsumi I would argue that his relevance to the immediate plot (Reaper invasion) is by far the most relevant. When I read the spoiler I instantly thought, for a game that is focused around the apocalypse and stopping a Reaper invasion, what insight would matter the most at that moment? Here we have a character with just that, insight into the reaper tactics and strategy, cut from the game and resold as bonus content for $10. Even if his relevance proves very little in the long run, here is an opportunity for a completely new and and unique perspective on-board the Normandy.

How Bioware does not see him as anything more than a means to milk the fanbase is beyond me at the moment. How could they not believe this would be an amazing, if not fun, development for their fanbase?

I guess what I am getting at is that Bioware states they want to make the best game possible. I think they are full of shit now.

edit: I forgot to add one thing Terrestrial Dream, this character is day 1 DLC, meaning he is finished, just cut away from the main game. If I remember correctly Katsumi was not day 1 DLC. Let me go check my facts, because I did not buy any ME2 DLC, brb.

edit 2: One of the Bioware devs defended the DLC by saying, "the [censored lol] is optional content that is certainly designed to appeal to long-time fans." What the #$%^. Is that suppose to mean that the majority of buyers are not long time fans and thus are not privy to this story?

Last edited by Nixl; 2012-02-24 at 12:41.
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Old 2012-02-24, 12:39   Link #1740
SoldierOfDarkness
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It is kinda hard to see why this guy wouldn't be relevant to the storyline.

I mean his race is the reason why everyone's still alive and it'd be a great dishonor if they didn't get the last laugh in.

I mean if it was some other guy like drell or asari sure but this one?

Quote:
edit: I forgot to add one thing Terrestrial Dream, this character is day 1 DLC, meaning he is finished, just cut away from the main game. If I remember correctly Katsumi was not day 1 DLC. Let me go check my facts, because I did not buy any ME2 DLC, brb.
It was stated that he was made from a separate team and that he just so happens to have been finished in time.
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