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Old 2011-12-19, 12:23   Link #1741
Kyero Fox
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it was only a matter of time for these mods ...........
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Old 2011-12-21, 13:38   Link #1742
SoldierOfDarkness
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Looked into the Dark Brotherhood Guild and I was thinking

Spoiler:


It's just I'm not liking the Thalmor at all in this game.
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Old 2011-12-21, 13:43   Link #1743
Darkbeat
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Not many folks like the Thalmor, even if they may be correct about Talos.

I've thought of it too though, is TDB storyline canon? I guess we'll have to wait till the DLC to find out, I have a funny feeling we'll be going up against the Thalmor at some point (either as Imperial or Stormcloak).
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Old 2011-12-21, 14:50   Link #1744
RWBladewing
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I'm pretty sure the Thalmor were specifically made to be hated, what with the "I am so smug that my smugness is going to permeate every single word and action to an almost comical degree just so you can see how totally smug I am" thing they have going. Hopefully the DLC will have a third path not associated with either the Imperial or Stormcloak faction though, as my main character didn't join the conflict at all, having more important things to take care of, but still gladly killed every Thalmor he came across.
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Old 2011-12-21, 14:56   Link #1745
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkbeat View Post
Not many folks like the Thalmor, even if they may be correct about Talos.
Gamelore wise, I don't see how they can be right about Talos, and thus I don't see what you mean. All I see from the Thalmor is a bunch of jealous racists that don't want to accept that mere Men can ascend to Godhood. They think the Mer are the superior being and it's utterly unacceptable for a being lower than the Mer capable of something the Mer isn't. It's very easy to make the Nazi connection to the Thalmor there, thus not many folks like them.


Btw, I think I'm getting enough out of this game for the time moment. I'm looking forward to playing this again when more mods and DLCs came out to bring some more new experience to the game.
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Old 2011-12-21, 15:44   Link #1746
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Darkbeat View Post
Not many folks like the Thalmor, even if they may be correct about Talos.
You seem to be confused; they wanted Talos worship banned not because he is somehow not a god, but because they want his worship banned for the sake of it.

As in, they know he is real. They just don't want him to get any worshippers. You are confusing Skyrim with real life, where religious debate revolve around "your god doesn't exist but mine does". In Skyrim, pretty much everyone's religious belief is true one way or another. Because TES citizens have an expectation that their prayers would get answered. Unlike real life where people pray for the fun of it and don't actually have any assumption that it would do anything.

In TES If you pray and get no response, you go get yourself a different god.
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Old 2011-12-21, 17:08   Link #1747
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
You seem to be confused; they wanted Talos worship banned not because he is somehow not a god, but because they want his worship banned for the sake of it.
Yeah but it's part of their whole thing of establishing dominance and weakening the humans right?

The build up with the Thalmor is huge it'd be a waste if the next game doesn't deal with it. I mean the Empire's generals are well aware of a fight with the Thalmor along with the Nords.

Quote:
Unlike real life where people pray for the fun of it and don't actually have any assumption that it would do anything.
Uh no they don't. For the record people pray to God for things and hope for it to come to pass. Ex. Pray for a solution to a problem or to talk with God (Christian I don't know about Islam) Don't want to get into a religious debate but I wanted to point that out.
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Old 2011-12-21, 17:45   Link #1748
Darkbeat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
You seem to be confused; they wanted Talos worship banned not because he is somehow not a god, but because they want his worship banned for the sake of it.

As in, they know he is real. They just don't want him to get any worshippers. You are confusing Skyrim with real life, where religious debate revolve around "your god doesn't exist but mine does". In Skyrim, pretty much everyone's religious belief is true one way or another. Because TES citizens have an expectation that their prayers would get answered. Unlike real life where people pray for the fun of it and don't actually have any assumption that it would do anything.

In TES If you pray and get no response, you go get yourself a different god.
No really, confusion is reading "they may be right" as "they are right".

I never confused Skyrim with real life. I never argued they were right. You've gone on a seriously large rant for absolutely nothing.

To be fair, I haven't read "The Talos Mistake" (book in Skyrim) so that is why I say they may be right, I don't know the full story so I wasn't making a judgement. My point was whether they are right or wrong about Talos is irrelevant because they are stereotypical Altmer, that is to say racist, snobby and outright unlikable.

EDIT: Oh hey, here it is; http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Talos_Mistake

It makes some good points, but the blame is mostly on the Empire, not Talos himself. You are correct that what people think about Talos doesn't change his claim to godship, both in lore and in the eyes of those who revere him.
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Old 2011-12-21, 18:24   Link #1749
Kyero Fox
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They ban the worship of talo's and try to keep Men from thinking "if he can become a god, why not all of us?"

not to mention they are racist and belive only the High elfs can be god like. they even pretend that they are the ones who saved the world from oblivion, when it was indeed a Imperial man who also became a Daedric god.
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Old 2011-12-21, 19:03   Link #1750
Daniel E.
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post

It's just I'm not liking the Thalmor at all in this game.
They sure as hell don't like my character either. I have barely moved the main story forward and they already attack me on sight, even carrying orders telling them to kill me if spotted.

Then it's the Dark Brotherhood who keeps sending assassins down my way, the dude I stole Frost from, the people mad at me from the pickpockets (sending thugs) and the guards chasing me around for the usual bounty on my head.
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Old 2011-12-21, 19:11   Link #1751
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Darkbeat View Post
N
It makes some good points, but the blame is mostly on the Empire, not Talos himself. You are correct that what people think about Talos doesn't change his claim to godship, both in lore and in the eyes of those who revere him.
How did he become a god? I can see the issue here but it says he died and then ascended to Godhood....I'm a little confused here.

IMO now that I think about it the Thalmor are correct in that Talos worship should be outlawed

Spoiler:


Quote:
They sure as hell don't like my character either. I have barely moved the main story forward and they already attack me on sight, even carrying orders telling them to kill me if spotted.

Then it's the Dark Brotherhood who keeps sending assassins down my way, the dude I stole Frost from, the people mad at me from the pickpockets (sending thugs) and the guards chasing me around for the usual bounty on my head.
I was wondering about that. How do you entice the Thalmor to go after you? It was only a one time occurrence and it was like 1/10 in the game. I'm making sure every Thalmor agent I come by I kill.
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Old 2011-12-21, 19:41   Link #1752
RWBladewing
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Originally Posted by Daniel E. View Post
They sure as hell don't like my character either. I have barely moved the main story forward and they already attack me on sight, even carrying orders telling them to kill me if spotted.
That's funny - I stole everything from their headquarters in Solitude, killed them to the last man in Northwatch Keep, murdered around 6 of their justiciars wandering around the world, and wiped out their embassy, yet they're still somehow neutral to me.
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Old 2011-12-21, 20:49   Link #1753
Kyero Fox
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I want them to attack me on sight! how do I get that?
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Old 2011-12-21, 22:19   Link #1754
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
How did he become a god? I can see the issue here but it says he died and then ascended to Godhood....I'm a little confused here.
Details about things like that are always vague. Bethesda and lore in general never explain such things because "become god" is such a big deal that they can't offer a clear explanation. To do that run the risks of every Tom, Dick and Harry in TES trying to turn themselves into a deity like what the Dwarves tried to do.

(Popular speculation ahead!)

To be frank, TES lore is suspected by some to be metaphorical. As in, the Tower is the Computer casing and the Disc is the hard drive. The two gods of creation represents 1s and 0s of computer code, and the Elder Scroll is literally each version of the TES game themselves. Fate and destiny is the pre-programed AI and fixed events in the game. And to reach enlightenment means to know you are in a computer game. Those within who found out they are in a computer game either become gods, or cease to exist because they could no longer hold their ego intact. Dragonborn is the Avatar. The one who is not bound by fate, who can do anything he or she chooses, who can even alter time and space and create something from nothing. The Dragonborn is not us; the Dragonborn is our very own Chosen One, who we sculpted to represent us.

Now maybe one might understand why the Daedric Princes are beyond good or evil. They are playing the game the same way we are. They know it doesn't matter what they do, so they do whatever they want.
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Old 2011-12-21, 22:36   Link #1755
Kyero Fox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Details about things like that are always vague. Bethesda and lore in general never explain such things because "become god" is such a big deal that they can't offer a clear explanation. To do that run the risks of every Tom, Dick and Harry in TES trying to turn themselves into a deity like what the Dwarves tried to do.

(Popular speculation ahead!)

To be frank, TES lore is suspected by some to be metaphorical. As in, the Tower is the Computer casing and the Disc is the hard drive. The two gods of creation represents 1s and 0s of computer code, and the Elder Scroll is literally each version of the TES game themselves. Fate and destiny is the pre-programed AI and fixed events in the game. And to reach enlightenment means to know you are in a computer game. Those within who found out they are in a computer game either become gods, or cease to exist because they could no longer hold their ego intact. Dragonborn is the Avatar. The one who is not bound by fate, who can do anything he or she chooses, who can even alter time and space and create something from nothing. The Dragonborn is not us; the Dragonborn is our very own Chosen One, who we sculpted to represent us.

Now maybe one might understand why the Daedric Princes are beyond good or evil. They are playing the game the same way we are. They know it doesn't matter what they do, so they do whatever they want.
and what of the hero of cy- I mean Sheogorath.
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Old 2011-12-21, 22:39   Link #1756
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
and what of the hero of cy- I mean Sheogorath.
Eventually people stop playing Oblivion. The previous Chosen One gets a fixed Destiny soon after. He is only Choose if we play.
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Old 2011-12-21, 23:05   Link #1757
Kyero Fox
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Eventually people stop playing Oblivion. The previous Chosen One gets a fixed Destiny soon after. He is only Choose if we play.
Haha, good one.. made me chuckle pretty good. But yea, he became a "God" sorta, I bet if the thalmor found out they would be like "Nu UH! Sheogorath is a high elf! Harumph!"
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Old 2011-12-21, 23:28   Link #1758
Myssa Rei
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I think I've already mentioned it here before, but I really hope that, when the Creation Kit is rolled out, someone improves Alduin so that he's actually worth fighting. As it is, he's barely over an Ancient Dragon in damage and HP. This is the World Eater! Make him a Talos-damned challenge to fight! Having him scale in level with the player up to the cap might help, but also have him use the shouts he actually has! In my own fight, the only one he used was Fire Breath, when he apparently also has Ice Breath and Unrelenting Force.
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Old 2011-12-22, 00:13   Link #1759
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Uh no they don't. For the record people pray to God for things and hope for it to come to pass. Ex. Pray for a solution to a problem or to talk with God (Christian I don't know about Islam) Don't want to get into a religious debate but I wanted to point that out.
Let me give you an example; in TES, a young girl who pray to Mara for guidance in her lovelife would literally expect a representative of Mara to show up on her doorstep, identify him or herself as being sent by Mara, hear her grievance, and help her solve her issue.

As in, your prayer would be transferred to the nearest available disciple of your chosen deity, who would be told that you have a problem, and then the disciple would visit you in person.

How does that have any resemblance to the "pray and hope for the best" of real life religions? TES doesn't run on faith, TES run on results. When people in Skyrim pray for fish, they don't want a damn fishing rod. They want the fish, and they will get the fish.
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Old 2011-12-22, 00:14   Link #1760
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Having him scale in level with the player up to the cap might help, but also have him use the shouts he actually has! In my own fight, the only one he used was Fire Breath, when he apparently also has Ice Breath and Unrelenting Force.
This, but with the other higher leveled dragons as well.

Become Ethereal - When HP is low

Dismaying Shout - Against NPCs

Elemental Fury

Marked for Death

Storm Call
- For the really powerful dragons

Whirlwind Sprint - Fast movements
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