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Old 2010-12-13, 09:01   Link #21
NakkiNyan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
Companies have legal departments and editors to figure these things out. They have to self-police now and those that slip through the government "slaps".
Go back and read paragraph 2 about the wording of the law and consider the fact that it is so poorly written the interpretation of the law can change on a whim.

I can see Agnes sitting in front of a TV just to catch any little thing and using the law to fine them. Once fined the lawsuits come in and the company gets sued (and wins) but sued so much they waste all the profits on legal fees... for showing a rerun of Card Captor Sakura, Nanoha, or Sailor Moon... all which we would consider fairly innocent.
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Old 2010-12-13, 09:20   Link #22
aeriolewinters
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As I said, the small players are probably the ones who will be hit hard.

Quote:
o back and read paragraph 2 about the wording of the law and consider the fact that it is so poorly written the interpretation of the law can change on a whim.

I can see Agnes sitting in front of a TV just to catch any little thing and using the law to fine them. Once fined the lawsuits come in and the company gets sued (and wins) but sued so much they waste all the profits on legal fees... for showing a rerun of Card Captor Sakura, Nanoha, or Sailor Moon... all which we would consider fairly innocent.
This is just paranoia at play here. This just means that:
1. This law is still subject to revision, especially when the people involved will file a TRO on Japanese High Court. As you suggest, if the law does not play fair to the parties concerned, the law would have to be reviewed and revised.

2. Also, companies could boycott this and say 'what the hell' were closing exports now. It will put enough pressure for them to lighten up on the law. It will force them to revise.


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Old 2010-12-13, 09:30   Link #23
Decagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NakkiNyan View Post
Go back and read paragraph 2 about the wording of the law and consider the fact that it is so poorly written the interpretation of the law can change on a whim.

I can see Agnes sitting in front of a TV just to catch any little thing and using the law to fine them. Once fined the lawsuits come in and the company gets sued (and wins) but sued so much they waste all the profits on legal fees... for showing a rerun of Card Captor Sakura, Nanoha, or Sailor Moon... all which we would consider fairly innocent.
Can you at least quote what you're referring to? If it is
Quote:
- This is not a ban, but it penalizes any publisher and producer of material that Tokyo considers to be harmful to minors. Unlike in the US, retails have less responsibility, i.e. if a book they sell is marketed as a general audience by the publisher, but Tokyo deems it to be harmful, then it is the publisher’s responsibility to recall all the books.
then it is essentially saying Tokyo can tell a publisher "we dont like this, please remove it from our city." I think it is unimaginable that this will be some arbitrary process someone can decide so flippantly because if this was the case then it would kill publishing because publishers would be too scared to even take a shit. Things like this take long periods of time with fine tuning legislation or some other legal precedent to change. Unless you've read the bill in its completed form you won't even know the particulars about these processes either.

Also, I'm not sure why you're dragging Agnes into this when this law almost gurantees anything sexual involving minors will be marketed as R-18--which is essentially what she is targeting to no avail anyway.
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Old 2010-12-13, 09:36   Link #24
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First of all, I would like to make a point that is extremely difficult to analyse the extent of the bill given the limited amount of information to properly understand the extent of the bill. However, given the outcry amongst the community both in Japan and internationally, the following may be the case:

1. No express definition of what is "sexually stimulating", "encouraging cruelty", "may compel suicide or criminal behaviour", "unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate certain sexual or pseudo sexual acts", "excessively disrupting of social order" etc.

2. No boundaries/limitation to the above phrases to which is it is applicable.

Point 1, I doubt is the likely case as bills and legislation as a whole usually have definition sections and clauses within them. Furthermore, in the absence of express definition, the "everyday meaning" of the phrases can be used... (well at least in Australia, I'm not sure what the Japanese legal stance is on this).

Point 2, however, may be the case and if it is, then it is indeed very bad for the manga/anime industry as a whole.

If point 2 is true, then theoretically any sign of "sexual stimulation", "cruelty", "suicide", "criminal behaviour" etc. can be prohibited. This will mean that any manga/anime/related material that contains any sign of the above content that does not have a 18+ rating will either be:

a. Prohibited for sale
b. Classified as 18+

Specifically, it will affect all non-18+ manga no matter what target demography (shonen or shoujo) or genre (from action to ecchi to slice of life to whatever). Like many posters above have said, this bill will have no effect on material that is already 18+ classified.

However, it is still very harmful. To give an example, shonen action series are generally read/seen by teenage boys, whilst shoujo romance dramas are read/seen by teenage girls. Shonen actions tend to have violence with a few "suggestive shots" here and there, whilst shoujo romances (particularly mangas) tend have sex scenes in them. Under this new bill, these series will need to be classified as 18+, which effectively kills the target market these series are aimed at. Effectively, only "G-rated", "kiddy" material can pass without being classified as 18+. Thus, the main problem is that there is no middle ground, its either completely "clean" or is "adult-material"

Also, this bill is just impossible to run practically. Think of all the violations and court cases that this bill will introduce, I'm pretty sure that the courts of Japan won't be able to cope with the load.

Other than that, is there anyone here that knows the Japanese legal system well enough? In the case of Australia, where legislation does not specify a "boundary" or "limitation" to the extent the legislation applies, then the courts/justices themselves at the their discretion to decides these boundaries and limitations. In addition, a lot of Australia's legislation have the phrase "at the discretion or the court" or "as the court sees fit" etc. to deal with issues where legislation is ambiguous. Personally, I have no idea what the stance in Japan is.

There is also the issue of constitutional validity to determine whether the Bill will be valid in the first case. And most importantly, whether or not the Bill actually has a boundary/limitation to its application, and the various articles have merely failed to inform the readers what they are.
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Old 2010-12-13, 09:39   Link #25
Isegrim
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Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
Pretty much this. I also fully expect the entire industry to move to the Osaka metropolitan area.
Kanagawa or Saitama are much closer.

I fail to grasp the consequences of the bill. As it only affects the Tokyo Metropolis and if material in question is restricted there, will internet retailers like amazon (fulfillment centers placed not in Tokyo metropolis) stop their shipments to there? With the bill being so wishy-washy, will there be legal consequences for the artists producing them? A legal suit for each anime/manga/etc.?
At the moment, this looks more like Tokyo playing the trailblazer of moral standards to me, backed by it's economic power.
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Old 2010-12-13, 09:42   Link #26
Dist
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Some animes won't be effected because they're already clearly aimed at adults (i.e. for many eroge adaptations, slapping a "R-18" label on it will likely have zilch effect on the size of its fanbase or how well it sells).

However, this could do a real number on shounen animes. Shounen animes are, as the name itself suggests, aimed at a male teenage audience. Most of these have at least some of the content that the Youth Ordinance Bill refers to. However, much of this content is what gives many shounen anime a bit of an adult edge which no doubt makes it more appealing to teenagers as well.

This really puts the makers of shounen animes between a rock and a hard place - do you reclassify your anime as a R-18 and hence make it harder for your actual target audience to get their hands on it (in any sort of legal transaction way; which is the only way the animation studio profits from it), or do you thoroughly sterilize it of any of the "adult content" and risk making it seem too kiddy or tame to appeal to the vast majority of your current audience?
This is pretty much what I was wondering about .. Most people seem concerned about the fanservice type of things, yuri/yaoi etc. banned ... But doesn't the bill talk about things that are illegal in real life in general .. Would that mean that if we had shonen anime where a guy was killed, the anime would be banned cause well, obviously you can't kill people in real life ?
If this is the case ... This is the end of anime & manga as we know it.

I personally don't mind if stuff like Yosuga no Sora etc. will be gone :P.
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Old 2010-12-13, 09:56   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Dist View Post
I personally don't mind if stuff like Yosuga no Sora etc. will be gone :P.
I do.

Anyway, people seem to think this regulation applies to think this revision applies to all depictions of illegal activity... the ordinance already covered “Any material that may be detrimental toward the healthy development of youth because of their capacity to be sexually stimulating, encourages cruelty, and/or may compel suicide or criminal behavior.” and a lot of stuff still got published, so I wouldn't expect any changes due to that part of the ordinance.

However, the material that may be classified harmful to minors (forcing a recall in the Tokyo area if it is not classified as 18+) will now also include “Any manga, animation, or pictures (but not including real life pictures or footage) that features either sexual or pseudo sexual acts that would be illegal in real life, or sexual or pseudo sexual acts between close relatives whose marriage would be illegal*, where such depictions and / or presentations unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate the activity.”

Source here:
http://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/20...s-total-scope/

So it's not as dire as some people are acting, but I'm still not happy about it... for example, it seems to me like you could make a pretty strong case for Great Teacher Onizuka running afoul of the new section (I swear I remember a "spanking as revenge" bit), and that was classified as shounen.
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Old 2010-12-13, 09:58   Link #28
justavisitor
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so I would assume that Death Note would have been banned had this law existed back then?? This is not good...they should allow some animes to go to the limit..but now it's like either it's good for age 3 or you have to buy those anime in adult corner
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Old 2010-12-13, 10:03   Link #29
Hypernova
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Originally Posted by Dist View Post
I personally don't mind if stuff like Yosuga no Sora etc. will be gone :P.
You will mind when Angel Beats in your sig get's banned too

Crazy thing about the vote date is that Wednesday this week is also my graduation date (MEngSci, University of Queensland).

I can just imagine myself that day in my Regalia at the ceremony thinking "fuck fuck fuck..."
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Old 2010-12-13, 10:07   Link #30
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Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
Thankyou very much for this link. This was exactly what I was looking for rather than just relying on mere ANN/Sankaku etc articles.
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Old 2010-12-13, 10:12   Link #31
orion
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Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
You will mind when Angel Beats in your sig get's banned too

Crazy thing about the vote date is that Wednesday this week is also my graduation date (MEngSci, University of Queensland).

I can just imagine myself that day in my Regalia at the ceremony thinking "fuck fuck fuck..."
Perspective please. If you're not happy to graduate from college in what is one of the most happy days of your family's life and considered a high achievement, then you should be drawn and quartered.
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Old 2010-12-13, 10:13   Link #32
Dist
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Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
You will mind when Angel Beats in your sig get's banned too

Crazy thing about the vote date is that Wednesday this week is also my graduation date (MEngSci, University of Queensland).

I can just imagine myself that day in my Regalia at the ceremony thinking "fuck fuck fuck..."
How ? I can't see anything wrong with Angel Beats and how it is even related to this bill.
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Old 2010-12-13, 10:18   Link #33
blitz1/2
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Old 2010-12-13, 10:22   Link #34
Decagon
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How ? I can't see anything wrong with Angel Beats and how it is even related to this bill.
The heroes are students who live and breathe delinquency and defiance of authority figures; use and manufacture of weapons banned by the Swords and Firearms Control law among other things; students killing, injuring, and bullying other students; and not to mention the horrible, depressing, and at times graphically violent lives/deaths they had.

Edit: Particularly applicable to a tear jerker like Angel beats, do recall the translation from Dan Kanemitsu's line of "Tokyo already has the power to designate anything that is too sexually stimulating for minors OR too sadistic for minors OR too likely to cause criminal acts among minors OR cause suicide among minors as “harmful material”, and force such material to be treated as adult only material." And replace "cause suicide" with "typical Jun Maeda depressing".
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Old 2010-12-13, 10:23   Link #35
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This is a story about an old man will do everything he can so his beloved grandaughter will not encounter perverted materials at a young age. He is raising against time so by the time the child enters grade school, he finally abolished what he thought the root of all perverted materials that could harm a children, anime and manga. Even everyone is against him, he tries his best and open up issues even though there are no proof of violence. Then he gets his hands on the sample of Yosuga no Sora, an anime with all the evidence he needs to implement the bill. Will he prevail by wednesday, stay tuned to find out.

99% of anime and manga will be affected by this bill, piracy is already around that weakens this industry yet another problem has arised that would cause more plummet than expected. I hope they would make a right choice by wednesday before voting.
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Old 2010-12-13, 10:42   Link #36
NakkiNyan
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
As I said, the small players are probably the ones who will be hit hard.


This is just paranoia at play here. This just means that:
1. This law is still subject to revision, especially when the people involved will file a TRO on Japanese High Court. As you suggest, if the law does not play fair to the parties concerned, the law would have to be reviewed and revised.

2. Also, companies could boycott this and say 'what the hell' were closing exports now. It will put enough pressure for them to lighten up on the law. It will force them to revise.


When people lose hope, sometimes they become doomsayers.
Doom, like the doom that the mangaka are already hearing from their publishers. Mangaka that were going to have manga re-released and now is on hold, or doom like the mangaka that had their manga in a school setting now told that they can't have their characters in school uniforms?

It has essentially already taken effect and it is bad. How about the fact that the publishers are afraid enough they are pulling out of TAF to protest, and I don't mean 1 or 2, I mean as of 3 days ago 10 have so far.

How about reading about what is going on already in preparation for this ban, for publishers 7 months is just around the corner.
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Old 2010-12-13, 10:46   Link #37
Hypernova
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Perspective please. If you're not happy to graduate from college in what is one of the most happy days of your family's life and considered a high achievement, then you should be drawn and quartered.
Chill dude, I'm exaggerating . I didn't even wanted to attend since my parents wont be there (so no point) I'm only going because I didn't go to my BE one so my parents insisted (I was already in Aus for the ME).
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Old 2010-12-13, 11:00   Link #38
Yui Is My Wife
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So, on a lighter and happier note.

Who else thinks that an Otaku who's more obsessed (than usual) will get mad enough (in every sense of the word) to plunge a knife into Ishihara's evil heart on One Fine and Happy Day?
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Old 2010-12-13, 11:02   Link #39
NakkiNyan
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So, on a lighter and happier note.

Who else thinks that an Otaku who's more obsessed (than usual) will get mad enough (in every sense of the word) to plunge a knife into Ishihara's evil heart on One Fine and Happy Day?
Talking to my Japanese friends I get the feeling it is more than the otaku that hate the guy.
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Old 2010-12-13, 11:04   Link #40
Yui Is My Wife
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Here's to praying that it actually happens.
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