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Old 2011-06-20, 09:07   Link #961
kache
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10

Frankly, I really want Mikuni to win. The little boy is annoying.
But we're obviously going to have a Happy Ending, sadly...
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Old 2011-06-20, 11:16   Link #962
ipodi
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by zettai View Post
But in the series, they try to spread panic through rumors to make people sell yen and devalue it.
No doubt that the series' own logic makes sense, as I mentioned in the upstream. I only said that the plot did not bear relevance to the real world. Japan is not Zimbabwe.

=================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamstar View Post
resorting to strawman's now are we? The anime represents what the writer thought would happen if the Yen became hyper-inflated, he probably got his ideas from what has actually happened in history.
What do you mean "straw man?" The term is misused here. I was asking for clarifications.


Quote:
I just explained it to you. Another poster also explained it to you. As a student of economics I'm sure you can figure out there are several ways to get around the legal tender issue you brought up. This issue is settled.
I totally agree that the issue has been settled. It's incorrect to assume that any country that have seen a temporary increase in money supply would all of sudden see everyone switching to another currency. Only countries that have weak institutions allow black market to sprout.


Quote:
You are simply attacking me on a technicality. Gold has been a store of value for centuries because of their scarcity. Fiat currencies are just paper. We're having this conversation because I used the word "purchasing power" instead of "value."
I don't attack people on "technicality." Purchasing power is different from value. Money has purchasing power. Your house has value. Your house doesn't have purchasing power. Even you admitted that you have used the wrong term.


Quote:
Regardless, I can go exchange my gold to fiat to buy groceries at any point in time, you won't be able to do the reverse when the USD is replaced.
I can exchange my old USD to the new fiat money to buy groceries.

Quote:
The USD fiat has only been in existence for roughly 40 years, do you honestly think it will continue to be used for the next 40? A whole host of countries like China, Japan, Russia are trying to get rid of them. For now it exists yes but we all know what eventually happens to it.
Japanese government is seriously considering to get rid of its own currency? Please reference this claim.


Quote:
Tagging paper money to nothing sounds much better.
The values of gold and paper money both depend on the same factor: speculation about the future.

Last edited by ipodi; 2011-06-20 at 11:42.
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Old 2011-06-20, 14:01   Link #963
Bri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
And the perfect environment is the Financial District in this show which doesn't really apply to any logical economic process in the real world. I like to think of this show as a fantasy economic scenario that can't really be used to teach anyone anything useful about economics.

Honestly the show is like a textbook example of getting everything wrong on the production level. From writing, down to pacing, through character development right down to animation it is decidedly sub-par and wanting. At best it might encourage peolple to get interested in economics where they can check out how they really work so perhaps someone can indirectly learn economics from it, just not by watching it.

Though I'm honestly enjoying it as something I think could become a cult classic some day.
I agree that the economic ideas of C haven't got much to do with the real world, I see it mostly as window dressing to give some weight to the plot. It isn't neccesarily a problem that the writing staff is out of their depth on a topic, but presenting some half baked ideas as some kind of truth is.

Still, I have to respect the show for being an original animation with a message that at least tries to comment on social issues in Japan. I think it's a breath of fresh air in comparison to all the escapist fare on high school life. It's a shame it is so lacking in production values.
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Old 2011-06-21, 09:21   Link #964
MeisterBabylon
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I know that scene was supposed to be serious, and that I'm sorta used to how they butcher the financial headlines for plot means, but when I heard "Micro Mezzo Macroflation OVERHEATED ECONOMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!" I almost died laughing.
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Old 2011-06-21, 10:39   Link #965
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamstar View Post
LOL

Yeah, being able to exchange your USD paper for actual gold is a silly silly idea. Tagging paper money to nothing sounds much better. It sure has worked out for the rest of the world right now right? Oh wait...
Gold is used as a form of valuation dummy, hence tagging paper money to it, which is ALSO used as a form of valuation, is inherently silly.

It is a promise to pay in equivalent value of goods bartered - it is a medium of trade itself. It has absolutely no physical utility other than a valuation of trade due to its rarity. Value should be tagged to its worth when consumed, which is called utility. Gold cannot be consumed like oil or food, so why should there be any utility other than decoration for gold?

Quote:
I think I explained it a lot better and people can actually understand what I say without having to read an essay. I don't need to hide my explanations behind economic jargon nobody understands either.
Argumentum ad hominem. I find it quite humourous that you quote the term "economic jargon" when I explained things in trading terms - shows that you don't even understand where money comes from.

Try again, and read up a little more on the history of finance - or you might want to differentiate between scarcity and utility with regards to TRADING.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipodi View Post
I totally agree that the issue has been settled. It's incorrect to assume that any country that have seen a temporary increase in money supply would all of sudden see everyone switching to another currency. Only countries that have weak institutions allow black market to sprout.
Not exactly true actually. It depends on the legality of the goods that are imported and exported. If a group of individuals desire something, but it is illegal, it creates a black market for it. Narcotics like heroin and opium are goods traded on the black market because of their illegality in many countries, like firearms.

There is also an interesting institution called the grey market, where the manufacturer unintentionally, through agents, sold their products underground to avoid tariffs and trade restrictions. However, in both cases, there is a tendency to use recognised currencies as trade valuations instead of bartering.
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Old 2011-06-21, 11:30   Link #966
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
I know that scene was supposed to be serious, and that I'm sorta used to how they butcher the financial headlines for plot means, but when I heard "Micro Mezzo Macroflation OVERHEATED ECONOMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!" I almost died laughing.
Yeah that part slayed with my friends when I showed it to them and it's not even supposed to be a joke. The zany Engrish was on a whole different level this most recent episode.
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Old 2011-06-21, 12:32   Link #967
Bri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Gold is used as a form of valuation dummy, hence tagging paper money to it, which is ALSO used as a form of valuation, is inherently silly.

It is a promise to pay in equivalent value of goods bartered - it is a medium of trade itself. It has absolutely no physical utility other than a valuation of trade due to its rarity. Value should be tagged to its worth when consumed, which is called utility. Gold cannot be consumed like oil or food, so why should there be any utility other than decoration for gold?
Indeed, gold has little inherent value. It's main perceived advantage is it's relative scarcity which would prevent a government from "printing money". The gold standard is only really advocated by supporters of political ideologies that mistrust the government. In policy making and economic research it hasn't been takes serious for decades.

The main advantage of gold convertability can be copied by any central bank that is committed to price stability (a single mandate) without any of it's disadvantages like price instability and fixed exchange rates.
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Old 2011-06-21, 15:40   Link #968
kk2extreme
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Quick question:

So colors of cards correspond to unique traits that goes with it, what color correspond to what now?
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Old 2011-06-21, 23:26   Link #969
Quarkboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kk2extreme View Post
Quick question:

So colors of cards correspond to unique traits that goes with it, what color correspond to what now?
I don't think there's been any official explanation except for the Darkness card.

I presume the system is the same as it is with the Shinsei Bank "step-up program":

Depending on the total amount of money you have saved/invested, there are three levels: Standard, Gold, and Platinum.
The better the level the more free transfers you get a month, plus better interest rates on loans and priority fedex transactions...
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Old 2011-06-23, 05:29   Link #970
Deconstructor
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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After watching episode 10 I realize I don't have very high expectations from economic logic. As long as the story seems just a little bit plausible I'm satisfied. In this episode's case Mikuni is portrayed as the bad guy, while Kimimaro and Jennifer work against him. Mikuni's plan was to print more money in order to stop [C] now, but at cost of the future due to prolonged hyper-inflation. The shady gold-toothed information broker decides to take Mikuni's Midas Money and drastically speed up the effects of hyper-inflation, allowing for [C] to hit Japan now. In the long run the Japanese will be better off because they will work to recover from [C] and hyperinflation now, instead of continuing to live wastefully in the moment and letting the effects pile on top of them until it's too late.

I quite enjoyed watching episode 10. Above all else it has the action and explosions I've been yearning for in the last 9 episodes (can't get any more awesome than OVERHEATED ECONOMY). In addition the relationship between Kimimaro and Mashu hits it's climax, and one can't help but have water swell up in the eyes. And even though Jennifer never really did much, her death scene manages to be very sad regardless. For a penultimate episode, I couldn't have asked for anything more.

Episode 10 Rating: 9.5/10
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Old 2011-06-23, 13:36   Link #971
shibakun
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Not bad for an ending.

Don't have much time to write so I'll just enumerate a few things:

* Jennifer is alive.
* Mikuni lost in the most old-fashioned way to end a fight.
* Kimimaro restores the present for Japan.
* Msyu fades away leaving behind a present.
* Hanabi is seen as a school teacher once again with kids in the park.
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Old 2011-06-23, 13:49   Link #972
.x.crii.x.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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Bittersweet ending is bittersweet. :/

Spoiler for Bittersweetness:
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Old 2011-06-23, 16:17   Link #973
cyoti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Forgot to mention, I particularly "enjoyed" the introduction of a MacGuffin in the form of the Darkness card in the penultimate episode.
The Darkness Card was introduced all the way back in episode 4 genius.
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Old 2011-06-23, 17:00   Link #974
Forbin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyoti View Post
The Darkness Card was introduced all the way back in episode 4 genius.
I think he meant the main Hero's card being a Darkness Card? Pulled that one right out of the hat. Though it isn't a MacGuffin as much as a darn I forget where someone becomes super power out of nowhere.

Ah yes, it's called Dues Ex Machina, aka pull a solution out of our rear end using super powered beings
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Last edited by Forbin; 2011-06-23 at 19:24.
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Old 2011-06-23, 19:03   Link #975
ars89
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Well Kimmimaro winning is no surprise. Q/Takako bites the dust, at least Mikuni made peace with himself. Finally got our kiss! Funny how crazy Masakaki was going when the press was going backwards. So the FD is immortal as the return of Masakaki indicated. At least he won back what he wanted which was everyone's fuures
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Old 2011-06-23, 19:08   Link #976
.x.crii.x.
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^ But he ended up paying an enormous price. D:

Spoiler for ...:
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Old 2011-06-23, 19:21   Link #977
viperdk1
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...honestly, this is one of those animes that I wished had been longer.

11 episodes did not do justice to a decent concept - it felt like I was riding on a bullet-train.

As such, I am quite confused as to what the hell I just witnessed.

For such a series, 2-cour would've been far better to flesh out the concept and give us a better understanding. The first few episodes were good, with a decent enough pace to warrant our interest. Towards the end, the plot events rattled on like the aforementioned bullet train, getting faster and faster - without giving us much understanding of what the chugging hell was going on. It also felt like there was NO character development whatsoever in regards to Yoga Kimimaro - which was, again, caused by the lack of screentime available for the series as a whole.

A quite intriguing concept here - but let down by the limitations of the noitaminA timeslot and shoddy execution towards the end.

5/10 - an overall below average anime.
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Old 2011-06-23, 19:43   Link #978
.x.crii.x.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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....just finished watching it subbed.

Wait, did Kimimaro become unable to interact with people or not?! Dammit, I'm so confused. D:

Spoiler for so confused:
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Old 2011-06-23, 19:46   Link #979
Narzia
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Well, this seems like either a bittersweet or a downright (hoho) downer ending. In anyway I should probably stop expecting anything from noitaminA in the future. The way things are going I can expect AnoHana driving me to suicide.
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Old 2011-06-23, 20:18   Link #980
Kon the Magnificent
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Don't tell me this was the end. It can't end like this, give Kimimaro the girl at least, make it a proper ending. Damn this made me feel bitter, this was such a downer ending to such a great series.

The series was good overall, but the ending made me feel bad that its over...at least I pray they give us something more (something I know won't happen).

At least we got a kiss between Msyu and Kimimaro...plus Jen was alive, which was a big plus, I really loved her character.

And for that I give the series a 9/10.
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