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View Poll Results: Ore no Imouto - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 45 29.80%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 36 23.84%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 24 15.89%
7 out of 10 : Good 18 11.92%
6 out of 10 : Average 16 10.60%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 4 2.65%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 1.32%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 2 1.32%
1 out of 10 : Painful 4 2.65%
Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-12-20, 15:09   Link #121
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Beaver View Post
I agree; simply put, Kyousuke's actions this episode does imply that he has tsundere behavior/elements, but I don't think that's enough to call him a full tsundere like his sister. I mean, if simply don't being honest about what you truly feel is enough to mark someone a tsundere, a lot of people already fall under that. For me, for someone to be considered a full blown tsundere that tsundere behavior needs to be more pronounced and is pretty much a default setting, like Kirino. Simply depicting a tsundere behavior from time to time like Kyousuke, while usually he's quite upfront with his feelings, isn't really enough to be called a tsundere, especially compared to his sister.
Very well said.


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I wouldn't say that he likes tsuntsun Kirino...I would say, though, that he definitely has a much larger range of patience and tolerance for tsundere behavior than most of us.
Well yes. That much is quite obvious. But just because you have a great deal of patience for a certain type of person doesn't mean that you like that type of person. A psychologist has to develop a great deal of patience for people with pathological conditions. That doesn't mean that such people is who the psychologist likes hanging out with in his or her spare time. A diplomat has to develop a great deal of patience for very emotional people with passionate political, or nationalistic, causes. That doesn't necessarily mean that such people is who the diplomat likes to hang out with in his or her spare time.


Quote:

Also, I agree with DasDingus that after years of neglect and 9 months of abuse, seeing deredere Kirino is alien to him and he's unsure of what to do.
That doesn't mean that he doesn't like deredere Kirino, though.

After 9 months in jail, being free to re-enter society, and move about freely, may be alien to a person. Such a person may be unsure of what to do, at least at first. It doesn't mean that the ex-convict would actually want to be back in jail, though.


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Despite the extra patience, he does have his limits, and he definitely doesn't want his sister to regularly cross the line.
Agreed.


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So, even if Kyousuke wants a demure little sister he knows that Kirino isn't like that,
It's certainly true that he didn't think that she had the capability to be like that. But now, he's seeing that she does have the capability to be like that, and it naturally makes him happy. Kirino is quite capable of being a "demure little sister", and demonstrated that in this episode and the last. That is at least as much a part of her personality as her tsuntsun side is. In fact, it could easily be argued that her "demure little sister" side is more reflective of her true personality than her tsuntsun side is, as the tsuntsun side may be largely or entirely just a mask.

I don't see why all of this is so hard for you, and a few other posters on this thread, to accept.

Isn't it just common sense, really? I mean, would you rather someone be nice and warm to you, or mean and nasty to you? What would most people want, if given a choice between the two?

Yes, Kyousuke may be a bit of an oddity, but he's shown that he appreciates people being kind towards him. If Kyousuke was a total masochist who liked being treated harshly by others (including his sister), then why would his best friend who he regularly hangs out with be the exceptionally kind and sweet and understanding Manami?

The guy is not as strange or atypical as he's sometimes made out to be, imo.

And Kirino having the capacity to be kind and sweet to Kyousuke also makes her a more realistic and well-rounded character, in my view. Do you disagree?


Quote:
he doesn't want to force Kirino to be something she's not.
Unless she crosses the line (as you said), he's not going to force her to be anything. It's just not in his personality to try to manipulate people like that.

However, that doesn't mean that he doesn't have personal preferences for what he would like Kirino to be like.

Also, a demure little sister is at least part of what Kirino is. She chose to be that, in most of this episode, of her own accord.


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Kirino may be tsun, but that's who she is,
That's not all she is, Saturn Beaver. Not unless you entirely discount this episode and the last... and that's 1/6 of the entire anime!


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and as long as she doesn't go too far, he's fine with that (although his aforementioned extra patience and tolerance will make it a bit strange with most poeple).
No, he'd personally prefer her to show her kinder and gentler side to him more often.

Again, why is that so hard for you, and some other people on this thread, to accept?

It is truly baffling to me.
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Old 2010-12-20, 15:38   Link #122
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
No, he'd personally prefer her to show her kinder and gentler side to him more often.

Again, why is that so hard for you, and some other people on this thread, to accept.

It is truly baffling to me.
Because you took something that seemed reasonable to you (that everyone wants someone to act kindly to them), and are conforming the whole show to fit that theme/moral, but the show itself doesn't support that clearly. That isn't really the central point or thrust of anything that was said in the show; it's at best a fringe point. This is why a lot of people are struggling to explain why you appear to be missing some of the nuance of what happened, but you keep acting like it's everyone else who is missing the "obvious" nuances of the show somehow. It's hard to accept something that doesn't match the apparent intent of the show as presented.

Kirino is cute just the way she is. "Tsuntsun" side and all. By the end of the show, Kyousuke understands this. That's the meaning of the title. The last title call was while she was being tsun (along with the title call in Episode 3, incidentally), and his final smile is in result to another of her "tsun" actions. That's the response to Episode 1. He didn't come to appreciate Kirino because she changed her behaviour, he came to appreciate her because he finally understood what her behaviour really meant. They have an understanding now and, in spite of it all, are no longer "enemies". They'll automatically get along a bit better from now on because she doesn't have to put up such a strong front; he can let her be dishonest all she wants, because he knows the truth now. It's as if he deciphered the code; he doesn't have to be so defensive anymore.

So yes, of course Kyousuke likes it when Kirino acts nice to him (who wouldn't?), but the point of the show isn't "how Kyousuke came to get along with Kirino because she learned to be more nice". It's how Kyousuke learned to understand Kirino's behaviour even though it isn't always "nice". She isn't the demure sister from the dream opening, but she's cute all the same just the way she is.

I'm not sure how long you're going to continue arguing with everyone who disagrees with your interpretation of the story, but eventually we may just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
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Old 2010-12-20, 15:41   Link #123
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
No, he'd personally prefer her to show her kinder and gentler side to him more often.

Again, why is that so hard for you, and some other people on this thread, to accept?

It is truly baffling to me.
It baffles me too. But then again many people have different ways of viewing things. And even when a certain conclusion is staring them right in the face they still can come up with a completely different conclusion in their own heads.

But alas if we all didn't have different ways of viewing things discussions wouldn't as fun then now would it?
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Old 2010-12-20, 15:46   Link #124
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This was a great episode. Also, as to the "good end", I would say this qualifies in every way - Kirino has turned down her "tsun" from 100%, Kyousuke really become closer to his sister, basically it's all good. I haven't read the LNs, but from what I hear some bad things go down... In this ending, none of those things seem very likely. So I think it is very much a "good end".
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Old 2010-12-20, 16:12   Link #125
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Because you took something that seemed reasonable to you (that everyone wants someone to act kindly to them), and are conforming the whole show to fit that theme/moral, but the show itself doesn't support that clearly.
I disagree. I think that the main theme of this anime is how it is essential to be caring, engaging, honest, kind, nice, and patient to the important people in your life (such as one's siblings).

Kirino's apology to Kyousuke, and her thanking him profusely and even giving him a gift, is a major turning point in this anime. It was here that we see the two siblings truly become closer to one another, as both let their guards down, and they became closer than they were at any time before. It is here that feelings are communicated openly and honestly, and that's essential for any healthy relationship bond, familial, romantic, or otherwise.


Quote:
That isn't really the central point or thrust of anything that was said in the show; it's at best a fringe point.
Again, I disagree. This anime is mainly about two siblings renewing and strengthening their bond with each other. And for that to happen, both of them had to change. As with all relationships, it's a two-way street, and both sides need to work to make it work.

Kyousuke had to accept Kirino's otaku lifestyle, and be willing to go through the struggle of relationship rediscovery with her, while her otaku interests served as a helpful vehicle for that. Kirino, meanwhile, had to learn to drop the tsuntsun mask, and show her true feelings to her brother. If Kirino had not done that, then we would not have had as happy an ending.


Quote:
This is why a lot of people are struggling to explain why you appear to be missing some of the nuance of what happened, but you keep acting like it's everyone else who is missing the "obvious" nuances of the show somehow.
Because that is, frankly, my honest opinion. I simply do not agree with the interpretation of this episode, and this anime, that some other posters have put forward.


Quote:
Kirino is cute just the way she is. "Tsuntsun" side and all.
Then why did Saori take the actions that she did? If the Kirino of Episodes 1 through 10 was cute just the way she is, then why did Saori see a need for intervention, and a need to persuade Kirino to be kinder and more sympathetic towards her brother?

No, Kirino was not cute just the way she was, and Saori rightly recognized that, and took appropriate action based on it.


Quote:
By the end of the show, Kyousuke understands this.
No, by the end of the show, Kyousuke is relieved to know her true feelings about him. It's those true feelings of her, once known by her being more open about them, that makes her cute, when she wasn't before.


Quote:
The last title call was while she was being tsun (along with the title call in Episode 3, incidentally), and his final smile is in result to another of her "tsun" actions.
One of her more harmless ones, though. This is just to end things on a comedic note that reflects the bulk of the series well. It's not meant to put some definitive exclamation mark on the theme of this show.


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That's the response to Episode 1. He didn't come to appreciate Kirino because she changed her behaviour, he came to appreciate her because he finally understood what her behaviour really meant.
He came to appreciate her because he realized her true feelings for him... which he would never have realized if her behavior had not changed. Her changing her behavior was important and necessary for this ending to even occur, RelentlessFlame.


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They have an understanding now and, in spite of it all, are no longer "enemies". They'll automatically get along a bit better from now on because she doesn't have to put up such a strong front;
Agreed.


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... he can let her be dishonest all she wants, because he knows the truth now.
He might laugh off minor dishonesty, but I don't think he's ever going to be Ok with her being dishonest about things like her desire (or lack thereof) to leave her family and go to America.


Quote:
It's as if he deciphered the code; he doesn't have to be so defensive anymore.

So yes, of course Kyousuke likes it when Kirino acts nice to him (who wouldn't?), but the point of the show isn't "how Kyousuke came to get along with Kirino because she learned to be more nice".
That's not all of it, but that is part of it.


Quote:
It's how Kyousuke learned to understand Kirino's behaviour even though it isn't always "nice". She isn't the demure sister from the dream opening, but she's cute all the same just the way she is.
She was quite demure in this episode, and parts of the last. A demure sister is part of who she is. Perhaps the only true part of who she is.


Quote:

I'm not sure how long you're going to continue arguing with everyone who disagrees with your interpretation of the story, but eventually we may just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Well, I don't think that there's anything wrong with a spirited on-topic discussion on an anime that people love, do you? As DingoEnderZ0E2 wrote...


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Originally Posted by DingoEnderZOE2 View Post
It baffles me too. But then again many people have different ways of viewing things. And even when a certain conclusion is staring them right in the face they still can come up with a completely different conclusion in their own heads.

But alas if we all didn't have different ways of viewing things discussions wouldn't as fun then now would it?
Emphasis mine.

Thanks for the words of support, DingoEnderZ0E2. Glad there are some folks here who share my interpretation of this anime.
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Old 2010-12-20, 16:21   Link #126
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Well things certainly worked out alright. I can't blame Kyousuke for being thrown off by Kirino's behavior in the first part. Was definitely acting way more nice than usual. Though clearly trying to spend as much time as she could with him before having to leave. In the end had to decide on what would be a great opportunity vs what she had to lose. Finally she's started to rebuild that sibling relationship and even with mail it would be hard to keep that. Has friends for all areas of her life and a family that cares. Can't blame her for changing her mind and wanting to hang onto all that.

Nice little phone call with Kuroneko. The Nii-san thing still gets on Kirino's nerves which is obviously part of the reason she keeps doing it. A bit of foreshadowing with saying she'd soon be calling him something else.

An episode that brings us back to the siblings with a few looks at the other characters. Seems Kuroneko has really gotten into that neko maid outfit .
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Old 2010-12-20, 16:47   Link #127
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Looks like Kirino became a little more tolerable in this last episode. If she was like this most of the time, this series wouldn't have sucked as much. She was still an ass all those previous episodes, so she's pretty much the worse character I've had to stand this year(and possibly last year too). I only stuck around for the Kuroneko and Saori bits mostly, I enjoyed those moments with them and Kyosuke far more than anything else in this show. I hope those extra episodes give a little more focus to those two.
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Old 2010-12-20, 16:59   Link #128
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Something that I want to clarify after thinking a bit more on RelentlessFlame's arguments:

I'm certainly not saying that Kirino can't ever be tsuntsun again. That she would need to be deredere all the time. More minor (and/or justified) incidents of her being tsuntsun might even be amusing to Kyousuke, and/or understandable if justified. I mean, almost nobody is sweet all the time, so that's not what Kyousuke expects, or even really wants, from her.

But I think that on the whole, he'd rather she more often be deredere and honest with him, then tsuntsun and hiding her true feelings behind a mask.

The key is that all-tsun, all-the-time, Kirino was not going to fly relationship-wise with Kyousuke. He'd do his brotherly duty for even all-tsun Kirino, but that would be it. She really did have to move off of that, and become a bit more well-rounded, in order for the two of them to truly grow closer together.

She didn't need to become exactly like the cute sister in Kyousuke's dream from Episode 1, just closer to that dream sister, which she thankfully did.
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Old 2010-12-20, 17:01   Link #129
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Then why did Saori take the actions that she did? If the Kirino of Episodes 1 through 10 was cute just the way she is, then why did Saori see a need for intervention, and a need to persuade Kirino to be kinder and more sympathetic towards her brother?

No, Kirino was not cute just the way she was, and Saori rightly recognized that, and took appropriate action based on it.
No, Saori did not "take action". Kirino approached them with her problem, and Saori suggested and helped organize the party. This was not "Saori's intervention", it was a suggestion to resolve a fight. As Saori made clear in this episode, Kirino took the initiative here and was not coerced.

Besides that, just because I'm arguing that her tsuntsun behaviour is part of her cute side (and that was part of the meaning of the show's title) doesn't mean that every single thing she ever did or does is justified and without fault. She took things too far, and so had to apologize, but what does that have to do with anything? She also took things too far when she head-butted him in episode 12, but he understands why she did it.


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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
One of her more harmless ones, though. This is just to end things on a comedic note that reflects the bulk of the series well. It's not meant to put some definitive exclamation mark on the theme of this show.
You argued previously that the dream opening to episode 1 was something everyone should consider as a clear sign of what Kyousuke likes about Kirino now. But now, as for the other title call, you're saying that it doesn't really count because it's not a "definitive exclamation mark". How can we choose which title calls are important to the meaning and which ones are just comedic?


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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
He came to appreciate her because he realized her true feelings for him... which he would never have realized if her behavior had not changed. Her changing her behavior was important and necessary for this ending to even occur, RelentlessFlame.
Was she being demure when she said her leaving was none of his business? Was she being demure when she said she said she didn't like him? Was she being demure when she head-butted him and caused him to bleed profusely? Is this the "changed" Kirino? And when she was listing off all sorts of reasons why she skipped out on her trip -- that weren't related to him. And when she told him -- without asking -- that "Life Counselling Isn't Over". How much of a change are you really trying to argue occurred here?

The apology was very important for Kyousuke to understand Kirino's behavoiur, but Kirino is not a "changed little sister" now. The same Kirino who dragged Kyousuke around town to have him buy her a Christmas present, and who made him go out to buy eroge for her at midnight is now telling him that his days of being of use to her are not over. And he's okay with this because, now, he gets her.

Basically the thrust of the disagreement is this: your argument is that he likes Kirino now because he sees her "dere" side, and my argument is that he likes Kirino now because he understands she's a "tsundere". Yes, he needed to see the "dere" side to understand the she's not all "tsun", but both sides of a tsundere are cute once you understand they're both there.


And I finished writing this before I noticed your new post but oh well.
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Old 2010-12-20, 17:12   Link #130
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Kirino is cute just the way she is. "Tsuntsun" side and all. By the end of the show, Kyousuke understands this. That's the meaning of the title. The last title call was while she was being tsun (along with the title call in Episode 3, incidentally), and his final smile is in result to another of her "tsun" actions. That's the response to Episode 1. He didn't come to appreciate Kirino because she changed her behaviour, he came to appreciate her because he finally understood what her behaviour really meant. They have an understanding now and, in spite of it all, are no longer "enemies". They'll automatically get along a bit better from now on because she doesn't have to put up such a strong front; he can let her be dishonest all she wants, because he knows the truth now. It's as if he deciphered the code; he doesn't have to be so defensive anymore.
Leaving subjective interpretations of what viewers see as "cute" aside, I seriously have to question this statement (Especially what I bolded).

Did I miss something while watching this show? What code has been deciphered? What greater understanding has formed between the siblings? This show so far has shown the development of both sides to willingly continue their weak connection, but by no means do they truly understand one another.

At the very least, the viewer doesn't know. They haven't explained anything to us. Again i'm going to ask, why do they hate each other (Without extrapolating from extremely weak clues)?

This isn't about a character being tsuntsun or deredere or tsundere or whatever the hell people want. We all know what kind of sister Kyousuke sees as picturesque, but as you pointed out, part of this show is having him coming to terms with how her sister acts in "reality." The problem is, and always has been for me in this show past episode 6, that they completely forgot about this. They were constructing this exact narrative, and then decided to shelve it for almost 5 episodes.

We had to go through that painful last episode for me, only because the story needed a huge bandaid. Unfortunately for me, that bandaid wasn't good enough.

This episode, albeit anime original, was where the show should have been heading to in the first place. Not the silly dribble they put us through in previous episodes (Side stories aside).
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Old 2010-12-20, 17:19   Link #131
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No, Saori did not "take action".
Come on, let's not split hairs here. Making a suggestion is taking an action. I'll admit that "intervention" may not have been the best choice of words on my part, but the core of my point remains the same.


Quote:
Besides that, just because I'm arguing that her tsuntsun behaviour is part of her cute side (and that was part of the meaning of the show's title) doesn't mean that every single thing she ever did or does is justified and without fault.
She can be cute and still have a tsuntsun side... but prior to episode 11, the balance between tsuntsun and deredere was way off. With the last two episodes, the balance is no longer way off, and that makes her cute for Kyousuke.


Quote:
She took things too far, and so had to apologize, but what does that have to do with anything?
It means that the balance between her harsher side, and her nicer more demure side, was off. That needed to change in order for her relationship with Kyousuke to move forward, imo.


Quote:
You argued previously that the dream opening to episode 1 was something everyone should consider as a clear sign of what Kyousuke likes about Kirino now.
Right.


Quote:
But now, as for the other title call, you're saying that it doesn't really count because it's not a "definitive exclamation mark". How can we choose which title calls are important to the meaning and which ones are just comedic?
Fair enough. The level of tsun displayed by Kirino in the finale title call can be amusing to Kyousuke, as long as it's not overly done, and there's a dere side to balance it (as seen by Kyousuke's dream sister concept from Episode 1).


Quote:
Was she being demure when she said her leaving was none of his business? Was she being demure when she said she said she didn't like him? Was she being demure when she head-butted him and caused him to bleed profusely? Is this the "changed" Kirino? And when she was listing off all sorts of reasons why she skipped out on her trip -- that weren't related to him. And when she told him -- without asking -- that "Life Counselling Isn't Over". How much of a change are you really trying to argue occurred here?
She was demure most of the episode. One tsuntsun explosion doesn't negate that. All I'm saying is that her demure side is a genuine part of who she is.
Quote:

Basically the thrust of the disagreement is this: your argument is that he likes Kirino now because he sees her "dere" side, and my argument is that he likes Kirino now because he understands she's a "tsundere". Yes, he needed to see the "dere" side to understand the she's not all "tsun", but both sides of a tsundere are cute once you understand they're both there.
Yes, that's fine. I can agree on that compromise.

We might be still slightly apart, but it's nothing major. It's like the difference between a 60 Dere 40 Tsun Tsundere and a 40 Dere 60 Tsun Tsundere. It's not really worth arguing over.
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Old 2010-12-20, 17:34   Link #132
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I must say, I'm glad it never went down the incest route; as this stresses the importance of familial bonds and facing reality instead of indulging too much in fantasy. An incest route would make absolutely no sense to me besides for comical reasons; I mean just because you reconcile with a family member doesn't mean you're gonna secks them. It'd be really odd to have relationships and friendships like that.

Besides, we already have at least one other show this season for hawt incest stuff. So not all is lost.
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Old 2010-12-20, 17:38   Link #133
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Leaving subjective interpretations of what viewers see as "cute" aside, I seriously have to question this statement (Especially what I bolded).

Did I miss something while watching this show? What code has been deciphered? What greater understanding has formed between the siblings? This show so far has shown the development of both sides to willingly continue their weak connection, but by no means do they truly understand one another.

At the very least, the viewer doesn't know. They haven't explained anything to us. Again i'm going to ask, why do they hate each other (Without extrapolating from extremely weak clues)?

This isn't about a character being tsuntsun or deredere or tsundere or whatever the hell people want. We all know what kind of sister Kyousuke sees as picturesque, but as you pointed out, part of this show is having him coming to terms with how her sister acts in "reality." The problem is, and always has been for me in this show past episode 6, that they completely forgot about this. They were constructing this exact narrative, and then decided to shelve it for almost 5 episodes.

We had to go through that painful last episode for me, only because the story needed a huge bandaid. Unfortunately for me, that bandaid wasn't good enough.

This episode, albeit anime original, was where the show should have been heading to in the first place. Not the silly dribble they put us through in previous episodes (Side stories aside).
eyah, that kind of fits in with my feeling that they STARTED about a dozen different interesting threads including the supposed main one you describe... it was like a writer's attack of context-overswitching. Every few seconds, "but look at what is going on OVER HERE!!!" without following up on the ones already opened.

I still like the series... I'm just disappointed that they keep offering me new threads repeatedly without significantly developing the threads they've already created. And then suddenly we have ep 12... "The Bandaid" as you call it (or the "o shit we gotta wrap this up for the broadcast").

Those extra episodes need to be chock full of thread followups. ... or I'm going to have to read the damn novels if i really want a story o.O
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Old 2010-12-20, 17:41   Link #134
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Besides, we already have at least one other show this season for hawt incest stuff. So not all is lost.
Eh...from what I heard that doesn't really count because of a certain important factor in the anime that can separate the difference between actual incest and just convenient circumstances.
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Old 2010-12-20, 17:44   Link #135
Archon_Wing
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Originally Posted by DingoEnderZOE2 View Post
Eh...from what I heard that doesn't really count because of a certain important factor in the anime that can separate the difference between actual incest and just convenient circumstances.
Like people really care. But this is getting off topic and spoiling people for no reason about another series sucks so I'll leave it at that.
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Old 2010-12-20, 19:40   Link #136
aliasxn
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Any ending that doesn't involve Kirino getting run over by a toxic waste truck - and surviving - sucks in my book. As long as they were going for an original ending, might as well have done that... So not a single bad thing happened to her for all of her bitchness? That's just super.
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Old 2010-12-20, 20:22   Link #137
Sprite_Coke
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Better late than never.
Great ending.
Super excited for the final episodes.
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Old 2010-12-20, 20:32   Link #138
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Old 2010-12-20, 20:56   Link #139
HandofFate
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argh, for a 'Kirino closure' episode ender of the season.

Kirino once again shows her bad side.

Outright attacking, punching and kicking Kyosuke like that? TOTAL BRAT!

Also, I don't get why the character never leaves for america like this...
Kyosuke is right, it is a good opportunity. She should take it.

Best part of the episode was Kuroneko posing in front of the mirror.
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Old 2010-12-20, 21:18   Link #140
DasDingus
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
She can be cute and still have a tsuntsun side... but prior to episode 11, the balance between tsuntsun and deredere was way off. With the last two episodes, the balance is no longer way off, and that makes her cute for Kyousuke.
I would argue that the balance of tsuntsun and deredere is not what mattered the most in this instance but rather what changed Kyouske's outlook on Kirino the most was the mere knowledge that such a side exists. Before episode 11 he had no idea how Kirino really felt. He could guess at what she was thinking but her messages were so muddled that it was completely plausible that her hatred was genuine, which was probably upsetting to Kyouske.

Quote:
Fair enough. The level of tsun displayed by Kirino in the finale title call can be amusing to Kyousuke, as long as it's not overly done, and there's a dere side to balance it (as seen by Kyousuke's dream sister concept from Episode 1).
In my mind, it's the knowledge of the dere side, regardless of balance that makes the tsuntsun bearable. Before the tsuntsun ranged from frustrating to horrifying when he didn't know if Kirino had a sweet side. Knowing that her tsuntsun moments are mostly an act and that she has genuine affection for him is what made Kirino's outburst cute to Kyouske.

I should note that to me personally, having a dere side doesn't legitimize or justify Kirino's actions. I'm just trying to guess at how Kyouske feels about the whole thng. And in the end we're really all just guessing based on what we've seen.
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