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Old 2011-06-17, 01:18   Link #421
Skyfall
Lost in my dreams...
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Yoma View Post
Dam Kazuma basically on a date with Madoka and all he can talk about is Ui
That wasn't a "date" though as far as Kazuma is aware, rather a group outing that ended up with far fewer people than expected. That's obviously not how Madoka would see it (because she knows it was a set-up date), but Kazuma wouldn't know any better. Indeed, he ended up alone with Madoka due to some unforeseen circumstances, and as such he did his best to keep her company, but there wouldn't be any reason for him to treat it as anything more than what it appeared to be, especially to the point of excluding talking about what is actually on his mind.

It seems to me that Kazuma is catching some rather unfair flack around here, and I am somewhat puzzled as to why. While I feel a good deal of sympathy towards Madoka and how it ended up for her, this isn't something that Kazuma can be explicitly blamed over, as the guy has done no wrong when it comes to her, unless we considering him not 'picking' her as wrong in itself, which is rather unfair.

And as much as I like Madoka, especially since hers was the only story in Hoshizora that wasn't a throwaway, I have to concede the show has done little to establish a reason for Kazuma to have romantic feelings towards Madoka. She probably has the least amount of interactions with him compared to any other heroine, but has a number of one-sided mussings over the guy. While this does build up sympathy for her feelings, it doesn't provide much of a ground for mutual romantic feelings to develop though. Relationships are a two way street after all, and sadly Madoka's has mostly been one sided.

Now, Madoka and Kazuma can obviously work if built up, and would make for a couple that would crush the moe scale with how cute Madoka would be bound to act under such circumstances, but that is some building up the show never did. Which is why I am a bit puzzled why people seemingly expected for anything to come out of Madoka / Kazuma side here, seeing how largely one-sided the relationship has been, and disliking Kazuma for not making a choice that the show hasn't provided the groundwork for him to take.
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Old 2011-06-17, 02:12   Link #422
DragoonKain3
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Originally Posted by kaigan View Post
must use imagination to combat depression
Spoken like a true shipper! Because of how bleak reality is, we turn towards imagination where things we want to happen becomes reality.

C'mon ring, surely there must have been a greater importance about you (or at least the exchange) that hasn't been mentioned yet. Crossing fingers and toes...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall
It seems to me that Kazuma is catching some rather unfair flack around here, and I am somewhat puzzled as to why.
Guess me being subtle didn't work last time.

Really, only Madoka shippers are the ones giving Kazuma any flack AFAIK. I can't speak for everyone, but I'm pretty sure somewhere in the back of our heads, we know what Kazuma did wasn't really too bad... especially if you compare it to other male leads in other anime (Rin I'm looking at you!). At the very least he didn't string it along, and was very direct with his actions.

In other words, we're butthurt with this episode, so we need a scapegoat. Kazuma just happens to be the most prominent target lol. Don't take too much seriously anyone who's giving Kazuma flack... we're just letting off our steam here. XD

Now if you'll excuse us, we have a particular person to pitchfork and torch...
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Old 2011-06-17, 03:01   Link #423
maplehurry
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Quote:
It seems to me that Kazuma is catching some rather unfair flack around here, and I am somewhat puzzled as to why.
Even if he can't accept her right now, it doesn't mean he has to outright reject her, unless he finds a fatal flaw with Madoka or already interested in someone. It would make more sense to say "let's remain friend for now" rather than "stay friend 4ever".
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Old 2011-06-17, 03:34   Link #424
mangatron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
It seems to me that Kazuma is catching some rather unfair flack around here, and I am somewhat puzzled as to why. While I feel a good deal of sympathy towards Madoka and how it ended up for her, this isn't something that Kazuma can be explicitly blamed over, as the guy has done no wrong when it comes to her, unless we considering him not 'picking' her as wrong in itself, which is rather unfair.
Oh it's easy. The reason why Kaz get's flak is because of the way he was written, what with his reactions to anything zombie related

Okay seriously, first things first, I've got no knowledge of the game so I'm going purely on what I've watched, and it happened in ep 10 right, he got the signal Madoka likes him? Unless the whole Koyori fiasco just flew over his head without a layover so I find it rather interesting it doesn't bother him afterwards, and he makes no mention to it at all. Let's look at Madoka because she never showed any romantic hints towards him up until the end, where he actually had completely forgotten about who Madoka really was until an identical event happened at the creek.

So it's sad you know, this girl remembered him all this time, he didn't have a single shred of her in his mind/heart, so during the "date" she could have gotten piece of the Kaz pie, but she knew very well someone else ate her share

Most of my displeasure with Kaz is because of Ayumu I mean it's because this kind of guy who forgets is one too many for me to swallow, and anime/manga/doujins show us that if the guy forgot the girl completely, it's friendzone stage right but, what else can I say? It's true we saw little to nothing between Madoka and him throughout the series, so I can't say anymore either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
C'mon ring, surely there must have been a greater importance about you (or at least the exchange) that hasn't been mentioned yet. Crossing fingers and toes...
Dream crusher: the ring was actually from Ui, who gave it to him, in which he gave it to her. *runs*

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Old 2011-06-17, 04:46   Link #425
tsunade666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangatron View Post

Dream crusher: the ring was actually from Ui, who gave it to him, in which he gave it to her. *runs*

You can't run from my gae bolg Tron

My illusions aren't that easy to be destroyed.

But back to serious business about Kazuma and Madoka. A true shipper will ignore that the girl didn't even have any romantic development between her and Kazuma but the truth to be told on this anime. Does the other girls have any romantic developments with Kazuma at all? isn't all of them being one sided only?

Given Kazuma is a brocon dude and the anime OP and ED literally whip splash Ui from the beginning and in the end. Catered in the first few episodes of the series. Like the developmental background story of his big bro business, firefly thing, meeting the parents and massive everyday event in the school. The only one who can compete with her is Ibuki. But the girl is acting tsun tsun against Kazuma in the beginning. Thus Kazuma mostly interact with Ui, Daigo and the zombie

If this is a race against love points. Ui has lots of points though not love points yet but she imprints more image points than the other girls who rarely interact him. Ui just become a little bit shy or stoic in the later episodes. But in teh beginning she is always with Kazuma. So I'm not against Ui ending against on the way the anime did to the girls. Like what I said with totally ignoring further developments for Tsumugi even though she is one of the main cast girls, Hina got her episode but she choose her family Koyori was still stock with innocence side that she probably didn't even know what love is. The only one who show perfect affection for Kazuma is Madoka. While Ibuki is showing it now but it's kinda late in the run. And the main girl who is in the leading is still stuck withe delusions of thinking her feelings for Kazuma is just o a big bro. Oh come on now! grow up UI! Though I still think the one who is leading the race is the zombie

Give more justification on Madoka... poor girl. She doesn't forget Kazuma and like him. But still stuck with friends for ever zone or a.k.a Bad END ><

Well in the SET DATE!!!! I'm pretty sure as well as Madoka likes Ui. It's already a given when his keep on saying Ui here, Ui there, Ui everywhere

Now the problem is left with Ui and Ibuki. And probably Kazuma. He needs to out his feelings. Asking if himself is straight or what.....
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Old 2011-06-17, 10:34   Link #426
uis
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When watching ep 10 i realized that Madoka don't have any chance and get friend zone forever. Oh well i feel pity to Madoka-chan but i support Ibuki so far i wanna see Ibuki winning in the end. About Ui i hope she will lost and can find other good brother. Oh well if kazuma love Ui anyway, i hope Ui will reject him. They should in fake sibling relation forever lol...

I hope in next ep we will get more Ui and Ibuki ep centralized and hope this anime will give conclusive ending. I am tired with harem and open ending. I don't care nice boat ending or watever but i hope they closure this anime. If they want make s2, make Ayumu as next main character XD...
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Old 2011-06-17, 13:58   Link #427
Tenchi Ryu
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I not sure if I speak for other people, But Kazuma is not getting flack Because of him rejected Madoka, its HOW he did it, and where the story is going from here. Him going on and on about Ui the entire time is a clear sign that this will be a Ui ending, and thats the worst ending this show could get, not because of biased opinions, but because she literally has the most shallow crush out of any of the other girls.

She is a Bro-Con, and she LITERALLY see's him as a replacement to brother she could never get. NOTHING in this story has shown us how she could like him BESIDES being so similar to her onii-chan. Him picking her would be one of the worst outcomes I've ever seen solely because of how she likes him. The reason Madoka's rejection was a sad episode is because its a sign no one had a chance from the start.

This show did a very poor job in the romance department imo. Kazuma hasn't shown romantic attraction towards anyone yet, and it seems they will just throw Ui on because she was the "main" girl. This is one of the few harems where a No Choice ending is actually the best ending cause he never liked anyone the entire show anyway.
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Old 2011-06-17, 16:01   Link #428
Guardian Enzo
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I think it's inevitable that Ui and Kazuma get together in the end. After all - how often is it we get to see two Brocons end up in a heterosexual relationship? Brocon-brocon end!
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Old 2011-06-17, 16:23   Link #429
Johnny
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I think it's inevitable that Ui and Kazuma get together in the end. After all - how often is it we get to see two Brocons end up in a heterosexual relationship? Brocon-brocon end!
LMAO, I was thinking the same thing earlier. They're perfect for each other with their bro-con tendencies. I could be wrong, but isn't their an actual bro-con route in the game? I think they put too much of that character into anime Kazuma...
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Old 2011-06-17, 21:19   Link #430
Nvis
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Kazuma will regret not picking Madoka, Hina, or Tsumugi.
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Old 2011-06-18, 01:48   Link #431
Skyfall
Lost in my dreams...
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post

Guess me being subtle didn't work last time.
Oh, I am plenty familiar with shipping and no stranger to having ill thoughts (to put it mildly) about certain male leads myself, I think it's just that I see most male leads that get the flack as deserving of it for their irritating personality traits (chronic density, anyone?). Kazuma seems pretty blameless on the other hand, so I guess it stood out a bit. While he is pretty far from a standout male lead, I find it hard to think much bad about him either, which is more than one can say about the majority of harem leads i reckon. Ah well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mangatron View Post
So it's sad you know, this girl remembered him all this time, he didn't have a single shred of her in his mind/heart, so during the "date" she could have gotten piece of the Kaz pie, but she knew very well someone else ate her share
I certainly feel bad for Madoka who has been remembering all this time (though that's a pretty serious obsession ), but I don't think Kazuma deserves much of a grilling over this, even if the instinctive reaction to seeing a sweet girl like her being hurt would be to reach out and rattle whatever it is causing her distress. Unlike most cases of forgotten childhood promises that leave you banging head on desk while wondering how the male lead could forget months/years of said childhood, that really isn't the case here.

I mean, the two are not childhood friends who spent significant amounts of time together to be separated by a tearful goodbye as the parent's of one move away as the usual trope goes. Instead they were two kids who had a chance encounter and ended up spending some time together, time which can be measured in hours. From where I see it, that's not that much of a foundation for time-transcending memories. In this case, i think it's more strange that Madoka actually remembers, rather than Kazuma not recalling it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
But back to serious business about Kazuma and Madoka. A true shipper will ignore that the girl didn't even have any romantic development between her and Kazuma but the truth to be told on this anime. Does the other girls have any romantic developments with Kazuma at all? isn't all of them being one sided only?

Given Kazuma is a brocon dude and the anime OP and ED literally whip splash Ui from the beginning and in the end. Catered in the first few episodes of the series. Like the developmental background story of his big bro business, firefly thing, meeting the parents and massive everyday event in the school. The only one who can compete with her is Ibuki. But the girl is acting tsun tsun against Kazuma in the beginning. Thus Kazuma mostly interact with Ui, Daigo and the zombie
There is no arguing the anime is quite barren of developments concerning romance, disappointingly so, so Kazuma indeed doesn't have much in terms of romantic interactions with anyone. But seeing that is about to change (or it better, I don't want yet another anime with inconclusive relationship side!), the romance needs some foundation to build upon. And your second paragraph is spot on in terms of answering the question of whom of the females is Kazuma close enough for it to happen. And the answer would be Ibuki and Ui indeed.

While the two don't have any interactions on the romance side with Kazuma, they have plenty of casual interactions. They eat lunches together, chat about silly things, joke around, do some stuff together here and there - in other words, things that friends do. These two (along with Daigo) are the "go to" people for Kazuma to simply hang out with, and have been for a while - his friends.

This is what sets Ibuki and Ui apart from, say, the poor Madoka, who is more akin to a good acquaintance than an actual friend. Remember some of the people from your parallel class in school that you were on good enough terms to exchange words with occasionally, without anyone finding it strange in the slightest, but not someone that enters your mind when you think whom to hang out with? That's Madoka.

Ui and Ibuki though are pretty much a part of his everyday, their interactions reflect this, and this is an important distinction when it comes to whom Kazuma is likely to develop feelings for. Romance needs some foundation to be built upon, and while the show has offered no building to speak of thus far, it has at least laid the groundwork for these two. This is why I also didn't think anything would come of Madoka's feelings towards Kazuma. She simply isn't as close to him as those two.

So ...yeah, the show has been building up Ibuki and Ui as the main candidates for Kazuma's potential affection, so it's a fairly logical progression we have arrived to these two in the end. How will it turn out ? That remains to be seen, though i would say this ep had a few hints of who is more on Kazuma's mind.
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Old 2011-06-18, 03:38   Link #432
liro
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Oh Rinrin what are you doing in haunted house... You're supposed to be in historic China.



Madoka...

One more episode then end, hope it end it nicely rather then disappointing based on the route that Kazuma heading.
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Old 2011-06-18, 06:50   Link #433
Crimrui
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I really liked Ui in the beginning but all this brother love relationship was just plain. If she falls in love with him based on that it's just... not so satisfying for the main heroine. I would prefer if Ibuki won but that ain't happening. Well in the end, it might all end up like countless other harems shows with nothing being resolved.
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Old 2011-06-18, 07:06   Link #434
maplehurry
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Quote:
In this case, i think it's more strange that Madoka actually remembers, rather than Kazuma not recalling it.
Well, I remember... that was back when I was around 8.

It was an actual childhood crash for her so it's believable for Madoka to remember.
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Old 2011-06-18, 07:09   Link #435
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by Crimson Cloud View Post
I really liked Ui in the beginning but all this brother love relationship was just plain. If she falls in love with him based on that it's just... not so satisfying for the main heroine. I would prefer if Ibuki won but that ain't happening. Well in the end, it might all end up like countless other harems shows with nothing being resolved.
I hate this type of ending. Though it depends. If the series is ongoing then I might agree with a lolwut harem ending. But this one was based on a VN game which is a complete story. They should at least end it beautifully or let the main guy or Kazuma to end up with someone. For the latest episode. He had already a girl on his mind which he continue to say while in the presence of another girl but that said event was not a date but a set up date. So I can't blame him. But that event itself should give hint that the anime will try to give us a romantic ending. And they should really give it!!! I hate to think that I waste a couple of weeks waiting and couple of minutes watching and a couple of headaches while banging my head on the wall because of a certain zombie that keeps showing up.


A good romantic ending is all I wish for and I wish for an impossible Ibuki ending even though it's already at 99.9 % sure UI! ending. It's not 100 % because Ui is a brocon and Kazuma is a brocon. And maybe some twisted staff that likes to show the zombie would do something like messing up the ending. Like an ending that big bro of Ui shows up and UI chooses her over Kazuma who just confess to her that she loves her but Ui likes ONII-CHAN! more. OR it's just that gay crush of Kazuma is too strong that it will bend the fate or destiny of this show to end up with "THE LITTLE BROTHER"

Okay I will stop now I'm getting crazy here..... ......... . . .... . ...............
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Old 2011-06-18, 08:41   Link #436
mangatron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
I certainly feel bad for Madoka who has been remembering all this time (though that's a pretty serious obsession ), but I don't think Kazuma deserves much of a grilling over this, even if the instinctive reaction to seeing a sweet girl like her being hurt would be to reach out and rattle whatever it is causing her distress. Unlike most cases of forgotten childhood promises that leave you banging head on desk while wondering how the male lead could forget months/years of said childhood, that really isn't the case here.

I mean, the two are not childhood friends who spent significant amounts of time together to be separated by a tearful goodbye as the parent's of one move away as the usual trope goes. Instead they were two kids who had a chance encounter and ended up spending some time together, time which can be measured in hours. From where I see it, that's not that much of a foundation for time-transcending memories. In this case, i think it's more strange that Madoka actually remembers, rather than Kazuma not recalling it.
Wow, I wasn't aware, but they really only met that time? I thought a few days went on of those dawson creek encounters, I hadn't known it's was a hi then bye thing. It is weird that Madoka would remember such a thing...

...except that she's lived probably a sheltered miko life, so not much else happened in her life that could surpass that chance meeting with Kaz . But I still can't see it Kaz's way, primarily because I can't seems to connect well with characters who forget an event in their lives (I find it funny he recalled his Madoka memories then, and not back in ep 01). Really, it's just me because of an accident I had when I was a kid, which was a big blow to me mentally because in exchange for my memories prior to the accident, I now remember a heck of a lot of what happened since, and I too had a Madoka moment back then, there was this daughter of my mother's friend, which they joked that she's my wife and that I should remember her. I know that girl won't remember it, but I still do, and its unfortunate I remember a lot of what others forgot.

But it's like how I mentioned earlier, Madoka saw throughout that "date" that she didn't have a piece of Kaz's heart at all, so it was over before it started

Okay, I'll be honest. I was supposed to mention this earlier. The reason why I'm unsatisfied of ep 10, is because..... when Kaz put his hands on Madoka's shoulders, I really wanted her to give him a toss and say "that's for forgetting me!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I think it's inevitable that Ui and Kazuma get together in the end. After all - how often is it we get to see two Brocons end up in a heterosexual relationship? Brocon-brocon end!
I thought of this too, but it's also the destructive thing about how these 2 were portrayed through the first 10 eps. Ui had her mind on her Oniichan, Kaz was disturbingly infatuated with his Oniichan, rarely a moment occurred when these 2 thought of each other, and in a recent case, Ui only thinks Kaz as a brother substitute, and Kaz thinks of Ui as a food compactor

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666
My illusions aren't that easy to be destroyed.
Here's one for a shattered dream: the zombie draws a pic of Ui, and then Kaz see's it and instantly thinks Ayumu is a love rival for Ui, and the 2 brothers battle each other.... in that tug of fundoshi war *runs*

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Old 2011-06-18, 15:09   Link #437
Midonin
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Originally Posted by liro View Post

Oh Rinrin what are you doing in haunted house... You're supposed to be in historic China.
Not only was it for a split second, she was in her funya-monya costume from when they tried to scare Enjutsu into being a less corrupt ruler. It made the episode a little better.
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Old 2011-06-18, 15:29   Link #438
Bonta Kun
One Punch Man!
 
 
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"My brother looked really cool in his loin cloth"

Really?-__-


Well Hina-chan awesome-ness last ep and now Madoka awesome-ness.
I loved her in the haunted house, super adorable~!

Koyori + twintail = win!

I'm abit saddened after watching ep 10, I realized that we haven't had something I actually wanted to see more of and that was interactions between Daigo and his mother(oh which btw Madoka Mama + Miko getup = win) I really liked the one little scene we got and was hoping for at least one more, may still happen but I'm not holding my breath.

oh and bloody hot pants galore in this series!
not a bad thing indeed
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Old 2011-06-18, 19:49   Link #439
justinstrife
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Just got into this series over the past couple days. Still catching up with the rest of you guys, but Hina is by far and away, my favorite. The others are likable as well, but I just don't like the idea of a UI ending. The fact that I could smell that ending from a mile away from the intro, the first episode, and my knowledge of anime, doesn't make things any easier. I will finish watching the show, but it will end up not being saved I think(unless they do something totally unexpected and glorious to end it).

Why are these shows so predictable, and why do so many of the girls who win these harem shows, have to be so bland?
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Old 2011-06-19, 00:57   Link #440
karuroso
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Damn Amagami and Yosuga! now after this ep I wish this series was in omnibus format just to see Madoka's ending T.T I like Ui but I prefer to see the endings for Hina, Tsumugi and Ubuki much moire than her D=
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