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Old 2011-01-08, 08:10   Link #141
Mr. Johnny 5
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
No. Spoilers should be released next week (though an early spoiler could come out Sunday).
Alright thanks james. That should save me some unnecessary patience.
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Old 2011-01-10, 09:42   Link #142
ShadowAssasin
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Originally Posted by Killer Bee View Post
And unless Naruto can sway the world with a speech, he may not be able to revamp the current system as Hokage as he would only be leader of one village.
Perhaps the system itself will change by way of the people it consists of. We might see quite a few epic deaths which will officially usher in naruto's generation as the village leaders, with a few elders still around for advice and council.

At least, thats one way it would make sense to me, as the current leaders seem quite stuck in their ways(i.e. Raikage's brushing off of naruto) and would make for a very contrived development for them to simply concede from one of kyle's --I mean naruto's gay ass speeches. But then again, Pein comes to mind... I hope the author had a refreshing break and took some time to rest and think; things can be pretty hectic for them.
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Old 2011-01-10, 14:49   Link #143
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Originally Posted by ShadowAssasin View Post
Perhaps the system itself will change by way of the people it consists of. We might see quite a few epic deaths which will officially usher in naruto's generation as the village leaders, with a few elders still around for advice and council.

At least, thats one way it would make sense to me, as the current leaders seem quite stuck in their ways(i.e. Raikage's brushing off of naruto) and would make for a very contrived development for them to simply concede from one of kyle's --I mean naruto's gay ass speeches. But then again, Pein comes to mind... I hope the author had a refreshing break and took some time to rest and think; things can be pretty hectic for them.
Naruto being called revolutionary who will change the ninja world is a half-lie by Kishimoto. Because you first have to destroy something and only then you can build something better. The first half of the job is done by Madara and his team and only the second half is done by Naruto and his followers. Kishimoto is simply handing out all the dirty work to the "bad guys" and all the glory to Naruto. Because we all know that if Naruto were a true revolutionary he would have to fight and kill Danzou and some of the similar people, but Kishimoto simply gives this task to evil-Sasuke to keep the story nice and simple. I expected something more interesting, but had to realize that this is called "shonen manga" for a reason.
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Old 2011-01-11, 09:06   Link #144
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You cannot be successful savior and not being tyrant if you are destroying world.
You either need a villains or some alter-ego as in code Geass
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Old 2011-01-11, 09:10   Link #145
milan kyuubi
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It very simple, Madara already done more then half of Naruto's job. because of Madara all shinobi are united. And Naruto will became their leader in the end
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Old 2011-01-11, 10:22   Link #146
Ulquiorra
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Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
It very simple, Madara already done more then half of Naruto's job. because of Madara all shinobi are united. And Naruto will became their leader in the end
Gaara should be their leader in the end. Madara united the ninja world. Gaara is the one leading them. Where exactly does Naruto come in? Even Kishi realized this and had to jam Naruto into Gaara's speech. His main character was upstaged by Gaara so he had to remind the readers who the real savior was. But it only highlighted that Naruto the savior works better as a concept than he does an actuality. The ninja world is uniting fine without him. Thanks to Madara and Kabuto.

Naruto's chance to be a real leader ended when Danzou died. If Danzou had lived, then perhaps we would have seen a Konoha civil war. And Naruto, like Yahiko before him, could have gathered his peers and fought for peace from outside. Then he would have looked worthy as a Hokage. Just imagine the Konoha 11 under Naruto's leadership. But no, Kishi decided that more powerups and getting babysat by more teachers is better development. I know he is still 16, but he seems even more child-like than the others. And always having to be watched by adults just exacerbates this.

Naruto being a leader vs. Armadillo penis, powerups, and fainting over another boy. You make the call which would have been better development for Naruto.
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Old 2011-01-11, 10:55   Link #147
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
Gaara should be their leader in the end. Madara united the ninja world. Gaara is the one leading them. Where exactly does Naruto come in? Even Kishi realized this and had to jam Naruto into Gaara's speech. His main character was upstaged by Gaara so he had to remind the readers who the real savior was.
Naruto will be the one to defeat Madara, you can bet on that. Likely he won't actually lead anyone, but he'll end up being the hero of the war. So his influence will preserve peace among the villages.
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Old 2011-01-11, 12:50   Link #148
Artimus_Prime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
Gaara should be their leader in the end. Madara united the ninja world. Gaara is the one leading them. Where exactly does Naruto come in? Even Kishi realized this and had to jam Naruto into Gaara's speech. His main character was upstaged by Gaara so he had to remind the readers who the real savior was. But it only highlighted that Naruto the savior works better as a concept than he does an actuality. The ninja world is uniting fine without him. Thanks to Madara and Kabuto.

Naruto's chance to be a real leader ended when Danzou died. If Danzou had lived, then perhaps we would have seen a Konoha civil war. And Naruto, like Yahiko before him, could have gathered his peers and fought for peace from outside. Then he would have looked worthy as a Hokage. Just imagine the Konoha 11 under Naruto's leadership. But no, Kishi decided that more powerups and getting babysat by more teachers is better development. I know he is still 16, but he seems even more child-like than the others. And always having to be watched by adults just exacerbates this.

Naruto being a leader vs. Armadillo penis, powerups, and fainting over another boy. You make the call which would have been better development for Naruto.
so Gaara gave the speech independent of the author's storywriting?
besides gaara was a monster before narutos influence
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Old 2011-01-11, 17:53   Link #149
LadyKikyo91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
Gaara should be their leader in the end. Madara united the ninja world. Gaara is the one leading them. Where exactly does Naruto come in? Even Kishi realized this and had to jam Naruto into Gaara's speech. His main character was upstaged by Gaara so he had to remind the readers who the real savior was. But it only highlighted that Naruto the savior works better as a concept than he does an actuality. The ninja world is uniting fine without him. Thanks to Madara and Kabuto.

Naruto's chance to be a real leader ended when Danzou died. If Danzou had lived, then perhaps we would have seen a Konoha civil war. And Naruto, like Yahiko before him, could have gathered his peers and fought for peace from outside. Then he would have looked worthy as a Hokage. Just imagine the Konoha 11 under Naruto's leadership. But no, Kishi decided that more powerups and getting babysat by more teachers is better development. I know he is still 16, but he seems even more child-like than the others. And always having to be watched by adults just exacerbates this.

Naruto being a leader vs. Armadillo penis, powerups, and fainting over another boy. You make the call which would have been better development for Naruto.
You just stated what I was hoping for somewhat (Danzou taking over the Konoha). I am still hoping for it but it isn't likely at this point ( I am still hoping he is alive somehow). It would make for a good plot twist though. Anyway I do agree that Gaara has more leadership ability at this point but that is because Naruto is too preoccupied with Sasuke at this point. On top of that Naruto isn't mature enough at this point in time. It almost like after the Pain arc Naruto regressed instead of progressed. Kishi is putting too much emphasis on Naruto getting stronger and not enough emphasis on him getting more mature. We know Gaara has matured greatly and has shown exceptional leadership ability but Naruto on the other hand not so much. This war should have been Naruto's time. He could have been the one unite the forces. I honestly expected Naruto to put up much more of a fight about being stuck on a Island while his friends are out fighting and possibly being killed. Even in that instance Gaara was the one who put up the fight. Naruto at this point is too much of a child and is doing too much of what he is told to do. Gaara is kind of what Naruto should be. Watching Gaara in action somewhat puts it in perspective. Naruto has some serious growing up to do before he is ready to lead anyone. I'm hoping the war will get that accomplished though. I hope Naruto emerges more mature and more of a leader at the end of the war.

So with that all said ,in the battle of Naruto being a leader vs. Amardillo penis, power up and fainting over Sauce, Naruto being a leader is a clear winner because it should be part of Naruto's character development.
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Old 2011-01-11, 23:25   Link #150
Ulquiorra
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Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
so Gaara gave the speech independent of the author's storywriting?
besides gaara was a monster before narutos influence
You didn't quite get what I was saying. Gaara's speech could have written without any mention of Naruto and it would have been just as effective. The parts about Naruto were by far the weakest elements of the speech. That's why it felt like Kishi forced that in there and killed the flow. Gaara gave a speech in front of 80,000 ninja/samurai and united them. Isn't that what the main character wanted to do? Other characters have now become a greater spokesman for Narutism than Naruto has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Naruto will be the one to defeat Madara, you can bet on that. Likely he won't actually lead anyone, but he'll end up being the hero of the war. So his influence will preserve peace among the villages.
So he is a really strong guy. A strong guy I wouldn't let play with scissors unsupervised, never mind let be the leader of anything.
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Old 2011-01-12, 00:43   Link #151
james0246
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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
You didn't quite get what I was saying. Gaara's speech could have written without any mention of Naruto and it would have been just as effective. The parts about Naruto were by far the weakest elements of the speech. That's why it felt like Kishi forced that in there and killed the flow. Gaara gave a speech in front of 80,000 ninja/samurai and united them. Isn't that what the main character wanted to do? Other characters have now become a greater spokesman for Narutism than Naruto has.


So he is a really strong guy. A strong guy I wouldn't let play with scissors unsupervised, never mind let be the leader of anything.
If you ask most Americans what ended WWII, they'll tell you The Bomb (despite the fact that the Bomb was only used in the Pacific front, and many other efforts helped to end the fighting, etc)...

It matters what/who won the war, and in the years to come people will forget/mis-remember that Gaara gave a good speech, and instead remember The Battle between Madara and Naruto and how everything hinged on that one fight (this is a society that loves to glorify specific battles afterall). (It certainly won't help that Gaara will immediatly bow before Naruto...) That being said, I doubt anyone is saying that Naruto will become Hokage/Kage immediatly after the war. Instead, I'd guess many of us expect an epilogue of some sort in which a more mature Naruto is shown in charge...
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Old 2011-01-12, 05:30   Link #152
DeDe
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Here is the spoiler.

Spoiler for manga 523:
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Old 2011-01-12, 09:07   Link #153
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Chapter 523 thread has been opened. Please redirect discussion accordingly...
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Old 2011-01-12, 14:21   Link #154
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
So he is a really strong guy. A strong guy I wouldn't let play with scissors unsupervised, never mind let be the leader of anything.
Yeah, well his idiocy is kind of what makes Naruto who he is. Even though I find Naruto being clueless about the fact that the biggest war in history is happening a little ridiculous, I never expected him to be playing general and rallying troops into battle. That would be more than a little out of character for him. Naruto's always been more of a hero who inspires others with his own actions (speeches only come after serious ass-kicking) rather than actively leading them.

Gaara's speech was sappy, but it was probably the smoothest way Kishi could think of to convey the importance of Naruto's vision for the future. Afterall, it's not going to look very good if it's Naruto himself up there talking about how awesome Naruto is.
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