2008-05-07, 16:46 | Link #81 | |
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As for them paying homage, look, its not even all that fascinating. Macross F is not the first Macross series to pay homage to old series. We've seen VF-1s and the MONSTER in Macross PLUS. The VF-1J was used EXTENSIVELY in Macross 7, as well as seeing the original MONSTER in action. Since VF-X 2 was released well AFTER the two shows finished their run, and that its treated as canon, its only sensible to bring the MONSTER, now upgraded into the VB-6 to Macross Frontier. Yeah, its NICE to see the Monster back again, but its not like the producers INTENTIONALLY wanted to pay homage. From a production standpoint, its a lot easier to use what is already available. Certainly saves them a lot of trouble coming up with another brand new unit. - Tak |
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2008-05-07, 17:01 | Link #84 |
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It is true that you won't find a lot of Macross kits out there, at least not for everything you saw on the show. However, kits from the original are still popular, such as the VF-1s, some Zent suits and so on. The YF-19 and 21s are equally popular. Nonetheless, unlike Gundam, Macross does not have as extensive of a relationship with Bandai, and their kits can come from a lot of companies while all scale Gundam kits are almost exclusively produced by Bandai.
Moreover, Macross variable fighters, unlike Gundams, are not designed EXCLUSIVELY for the sake of toy sales (which SEED was all about, see). Shoji Kawamori is not afraid to be complex with his designs. Thus there is an economic factor, Macross toys aren't very easy to produce. A while ago, there was a MONSTER action figure, but it was like a collector's item and very expensive. I'd imagine it to be so, since it was, well, monstrous. That, and new Macross series usually come out every 5 years or so. Gundam rips a new one annually. Hard to compete the numbers, if you ask me. - Tak |
2008-05-07, 17:09 | Link #85 | ||
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The VB-6 Konig Monster, as far as I can see, is almost unique in providing the same type of firepower that other Destroids brought the original Macross and UN Spacy, but with the greater mobility that being able to fly gave the Valkyrie compared to its contemporaries. They may not have NEEDED other heavy-firepower units since then, which results in the VB-6 being used decades after it was being designed, especially as VF's have seen an increase in their strike capability due to steady improvements in gun and missile technology. Quote:
As for canon, I'm just happy to see some of these older units which appeared only in the games make their onscreen debut in the series. |
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2008-05-07, 17:12 | Link #86 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
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I was simply arguing about the fact that paying homage isn't a rare thing for Macross, that is all. So, as much as I appreciate you replying to me, its just not what I have in mind in the first place. - Tak |
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2008-05-07, 17:32 | Link #87 | |
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2008-05-07, 17:50 | Link #88 | |
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Furthermore, the VF-25 is stated to outclass the Q-Rea in manueverability. It was a training mission, so the opposing force should not be expected to completely outmatch the trainees. Three experienced pilots in antiquated suits vs. three rookies in state of the art valkyries is a reasonable handicap. |
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2008-05-07, 18:17 | Link #89 | |
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-The Queadluun-Rea has inferior performance to the VF-25, and what was giving Alto troubles with Klein Klan was largely their disparity in skill. I wouldn't call the Queadluun-Rea antiquated at all - since SMS is willing to use them even in possible encounters with the Vajra, they should still hold up pretty well.
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2008-05-07, 18:58 | Link #90 | |
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Sure, the VF-25s are supposedly much faster and agile, but Queadluuns have the firepower to compensate whatever shortcomings it might have. Besides, Alto fought Quran in a scenario that would have given the Queadluuns the most advantage. Its amazing how Alto put up a fight, nonetheless. - Tak |
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2008-05-07, 19:47 | Link #91 |
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Most of the upgrading of the variable fighters haven't been to their armament in the first place - instead, it's been on maneuverability, acceleration, stealth, ergonomics and other similar features. That says to me that either the gunpods and missiles had been greatly improved over time (which is certainly possible), or that the UN Spacy had been satisfied with the firepower of Valkyries all along. Either way, firepower doesn't seem to be a particularly important distinction between variable fighters.
In the exercise, the Queadluun-Reas didn't use their missiles or their main gun, so the firepower advantage is more or less moot. While Alto couldn't use any missiles, he still had the advantage conferred by the VF-25's latent capabilities, and that of the super-pack. It was Klein Klan who operated under the greater handicap, which would make sense since they were basically trying to test him.
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2008-05-07, 20:54 | Link #92 | |
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Anyway, I am mainly speaking from my experience playing Another Century Episode. YF-19s for example, are faster in fighter mode and can easily outrun my Quead especially with afterburners. But the YF-19 also pack less punch and armor. The Queads on the other hand, may be a bit slower, but is actually more agile as a powered armor. Head to head, toe to toe, Queads can smack YF-19s silly, especially if the latter is dumb enough to resort to battroid mode. Yes, ACE is just a game, but it tend to have an accurate portrayal of real-robots, imo. - Tak Last edited by Tak; 2008-05-07 at 21:10. |
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2008-05-07, 21:20 | Link #93 |
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Going by Mahq.net, there's been a dramatic leap in performance for Valks since the VF-1, even if the weapons haven't changed much. The difference between the VF-25 and the Queads wasn't particularly pronounced, even accounting for the pilots. Going by the stats on the site, a VF-01 would have had roughly a tenth of the ability a VF-25 has, with the difference not being as exaggerted at low elevations while in an atmosphere.
The conclusion I've reached is that all the times Queads fought VF-01s it was below 30,000 meters, while in space VF-01s would have absolutely gotten slaughtered. |
2008-05-07, 21:39 | Link #94 | |
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Thing is, a plain vanilla VF of any class with an average pilot isn't a match for a QR. Simply put, a QR has more missiles, guns [the Neo-QR now has 4 plus a heavier shoulder cannon], comparable speed and a tighter rate of turn/roll to a VF. It's essentially a flying ball with legs and armed to the teeth >_<. Then and now, it's a combat design proven over several thousand years and absolutely nasty in close combat [which it excels in]. |
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2008-05-07, 23:11 | Link #95 | ||
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2008-05-07, 23:40 | Link #96 | |
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In other words, sure the aliens had a kick human a$$ piece of equipment- but they were almost always outnumbered, fighting in an environmental handicap and under constant fire from veteran units at maximum range. Of course, once they get past all that we're usually screwed by indisciminate missile spamming >_< If the assumption that Boldolza's fleet was completely male, then thankfully all of the QR were on the human side. |
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2008-05-08, 00:12 | Link #97 | |
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Now, the fleet that invaded Earth had approximately 4 million vessels, so in other words, no there weren't just 'hundreds' of Queadluun-Raus, there were thousands, if not tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, even millions. Considering the full extent of the Zent fleets during Space War I consist of 1,000 ~ 2,000 fleets with 4 ~ 5 million vessels each, Queadluuns may even exist in the hundred millions. And make no mistake, the Nousjadeul-Ger were meant to be a male equal to the female Queadluun-Rau, and those were also deployed in very large numbers. Its just unfortunate we've never seen a notable ace of the Nousjadeul-Ger, although keep in mind Milia was the only female enemy ace we've encountered in Macross. Then again, Macross doesn't toy with the idea of elitism and aces much, especially given the scale of its battles. Now, if you take DYRL into account, there were millions of Queadluuns deployed by the Meltlandi Lap-Lamiz fleet just as there were millions of Nousjadeul-Gers deployed by Boldolza's fleet. - Tak |
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2008-05-08, 10:43 | Link #99 |
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Ozma was using a 6-barreled gunpod.
Spoiler for Boomstick:
For figuring out the size of the individual barrels, maybe you can use the fingers as a reference? Compared to maybe when Ranka was being held? Here's a couple shots to give an idea of the power a round fired from it has. Spoiler for Peekaboo:
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2008-05-08, 23:00 | Link #100 | |
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Captian Obvious sees 5 barrels
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In the first place, the main reason why the fleet was so conservative was because the commander was under orders to follow the trail of the Supervision Army battleship. Sure he could have blown them away at first instance, but doing so would probably destroy all further leads to the enemy. His priority was capture, not destroy [unlike some of the idiots in the fleet]. When he did attack, it was either to test their defenses or insert infiltrators. Lets not forget that the SDF-1 had a weapon than can 1-shot a capitol ship as well as execute some unusual tactical manuevers. Any commander worth his salt isn't going to waste that sort of material and manpower, there would be mutiny otherwise. Added to this is the fact that the Zentradi had to keep away from culture bearing civilisations and you basically have an army tied with 1 arm behind its back. The female fleet that showed up later was also under the same limitations. I suspect QR deployment was more as a deterrant towards rogue elements in the fleet than any notion of combined operations [considering the gender seperation]. Right now I'm wondering about if the current powered armour technology used by humans in Macross F. It's probably the first time it's appeared in the series and serves as a survival suit and integrated pilot suit. Thing is, pilots have to learn how to use it in addition to actually learning how to fly. |
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