2007-02-24, 20:54 | Link #441 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Let's break it down. Lelouch has two goals: 1. He wants to avenge his mother. That's easy, he just need to kill the person responsible the assassination, as well as murder his father along the way for not caring. This can be done if he has enough power, and thus is quite easy. 2. He wants to make a place where his sister can be safe. This is where opinions differ. You see, I DON'T think Lelouch cared about worldwide warfare. What puts his sister in danger isn't a lack of peace; it is the very fact that they are children of a powerful Emperor. There are several reasons why their genetics puts them at risk, which means there are several independent solutions. A . If there is a bid for the throne, they would be a problem for the wannabe ruler. B . People who want to gain favour with the people in the royal family might capture them and use them for their own political bargaining. C . People who hate Britannia would want them dead. To solve A, B, and C, Lelouch can either destroy the power of the royal family all together so his genes mean nothing anymore, or take over as the Emperor so no one could touch Nunally. I believe Lulu intends to do the former, but future circumstances might force him to do the latter.
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2007-02-24, 23:37 | Link #442 | |
Gregory House
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2007-02-25, 00:00 | Link #443 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Lulu never actually bother to justify anything he does. That's because he is NOT naive, and thus know what he is doing is not righteous. He isn't doing what he does for justice, so justification is unnecessary. On the other hand, Suzaku try to play the morality card by complaining about how evil Lulu is. Since he wants to be just, he needs justification he doesn't have.
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2007-02-25, 00:28 | Link #444 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: California
Age: 36
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For Lelouch, it won't matter whether people justify or condemn his actions. He will act as necessary. However, his actions result in consequences (both positive and negative alike). And that is up for debate. But you're absolutely right, I shouldn't try to judge based on a single possibility (since they are limitless). |
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2007-02-25, 01:38 | Link #445 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: California
Age: 36
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If they are not in the spotlight like the other siblings in the royal family, then being the children of the Emperor does not truly put them in harm's way. Thus, I'd have to argue that Lelouch believes that the world is not safe for his sister is because he is afraid of the potential threat that his father, the Emperor, poses to the safety and peace of the world. People start wars, not values, ideals, or beliefs; they are only a front for justifying the existence of wars. |
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2007-02-25, 02:02 | Link #446 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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The anime makes it quite clearly to me that Lelouch fears the system is eliminating those like Nanaly. So for his 2nd target, what he fight is THE SYSTEM, along way with Britanian empire. Given their identity, in fact they are hiding in danger. The 2 choices are (1) continuing to hide (without knowing when danger comes) or (2) fighting back. In anime clinche, the lesson learnt ALWAYS IS FIGHTING BACK (the producer, the chars, the plots, etc. all for this choice). But i'm not sure it is true for this CG. It is why I like CG: It is - like reality - not clear and easy to just what is the right choice, provided many circumstances and accidents (unlike many other anime where those goody-goody brave moron main chars choose the right way just because it happens to be the right way)
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2007-02-25, 02:08 | Link #447 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2007-02-25, 03:16 | Link #448 |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Indeed, we have already seen that the Ashfords have started looking for new political backers; The individual chosen (i.e. Lloyd) could not be trusted to look out for Lelouch and his sister's best interests.
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2007-02-25, 04:10 | Link #449 | |
Composed Eccentric
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It's a given that it will come out eventually. This is just another game of succession for nobility. If you think about it, Lulu's goals are not exacly a revelation. Lulu's mom gave a far too kind impression for her position. Being a king or near him is very dangerous. The assassination attempt could have been a result of showing too much weakness. She protected her kinds with her body but I think she failed to protect them much before that assassination. That may also explain the emperors apathy to her death and doubt on her childrens competence. Lulu won't make that mistake. He will avenge his mother and so discourage other nobles from seeing him as an easy target. The power he is gathering to this end will force other nobles out to deal with it and so heighten his chance to get a real lead on the murderer. He does not have to liberate japan to accomplish this, he does not even have to defeat the empire to accomplish his goals. Of course to ensure nunnalys safety he will have to go beyond revenge. He will have to take the throne for that. Only from there will he have the ability to either crush his enemies or keep them on a short leash. The price of the power he is gathering is what makes this complicated. He has to cater to CC and probably help out japan to keep the black knights together. After all, nothing is free, even if there is no price tag on it. Is this moral???? Good question, you can probably argue against it but then it's always easy to argue against violence. I see it as a matter of no choice. What can he do? Sue the murderer? Order his arrest? How will be protect his little sister? Pray? Cross your fingers nothing happens? Thankfully Lelouche goes into this with both eyes open. Suzaku on the other hand.... he killed his father based on the interpretation of a situation by a 12 year old. He can't even take responsebility for it... he just tries to secretly die while acting like britannia is the best thing to happen since sliced bread. So how did this work out... Knive to kill father with - $10 Upgrading to euphy's knight sword - $2000 Cursing Zero for killing civillians while doing your bloodsoaked laundry - Priceless |
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2007-02-25, 06:49 | Link #450 | |
Gregory House
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Then again, I stated that the sole idea of eliminating everyone in their path to safety is naive. And the fact that he doesn't seem to be able to get a hold of his vanity helps, too. He is convinced he can do anything and that no one will stop him--that makes him naive enough for me.
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2007-02-25, 07:03 | Link #451 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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If he thought "once I've eliminated the emperor, everything will magically fall into place and it'll be fine", he'll be as naive as, say, people who think that all you have to do to build a democracy is topple the dictator of a middle-eastern country, and then its populace will greet your soldiers with candies and flowers.
But I don't think Lulu is that naive. And neither does he think himself invicible, but if you needed that to fight, nobody would ever attempt anything. |
2007-02-25, 07:21 | Link #452 | |
Composed Eccentric
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2007-02-25, 07:53 | Link #453 | |
Gregory House
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2007-02-25, 11:29 | Link #454 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: California
Age: 36
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If you walk into a battlefield, expect to be fired upon. Japan is hostile territory, for anyone really. The Japanese rebels and the empire each have their own agendas, so unfortunately people will be caught in the crossfire. But that's not really what the danger is. The danger, as stated before, is their father, the emperor. He's waging wars and conquering countries, so as a result more violence will ensue. The best thing Lelouch can do is to take down his father, since it is very much so within his power.
But seriously, he could just Geass a whole bunch of people, more like close aides or relatives of the emperor and assassinate him that way. (However, I don't think his objective was to ever really kill his father, which sets him apart from Suzaku). Quote:
Last edited by Juvyniled; 2007-02-25 at 11:44. |
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2007-02-25, 12:27 | Link #455 | ||
The Last Frontier
Join Date: Apr 2004
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But seriously, when has he ever said he's going to eliminate everyone in his path? The only quote he's ever made is that he wants a world where Nanali can live in peace but he's never mentioned how he wants to achieve it. If he just thought it would come about, then yeah, I'd consider him to be naive. But considering this is Lulu we're talking about, he's probably got some grandoise melodramatic scheme to do so. Whether it'll succeed or not has yet to be seen, but even so, just cause it fails doesn't mean he's naive or his plan was naive. It's called 'unforseen circumstances'. Quote:
I actually liked episode 18 where Spoiler:
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2007-02-25, 15:24 | Link #456 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: California
Age: 36
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Love your sarcasm by the way. |
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2007-02-25, 20:50 | Link #457 |
The Last Frontier
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Hmm, I think I understand where you're coming from now. But I have to disagree with you on one point. Just cause you've made one severely messed up mistake in the past doesn't mean you have to continue down that path you're already on. Just because you changed paths doesn't mean that you're a hypocrite but that you've already realised what you did was wrong. So in other words, just cause Suzaku killed his father to end the war doesnt mean he has to continue being britainnias dog.
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2007-02-25, 21:50 | Link #458 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
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But was it in fact a mistake? We already know the result of his father dying - Japan was conquered and the Prime Minister was deemed a traitor (the heavily favored public opinion). However, what we don't know is the other result. The counter-attack was deemed a do-or-die resistance, so it sounds rather extreme. They would either defeat or be defeated in that sense.
Don't get me wrong, I would agree with you entirely if it were just that simple. However, with no means of acquiring a reputation for himself, it would be much more difficult for him to achieve any kind of peace. |
2007-02-25, 22:07 | Link #459 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Are you sure the reputation Suzaku is acquiring right now is going to help him achieve any kind of peace? Being an obedient soldier who will kill people because he is ordered to, as mentioned in the latest episode? What kind of reputation do you think he has, anyway? A peace-loving pacifist who wants no wars? Your reputation isn't based on what you say you are, but what others see you as. And for other people, Suzaku is not pro-peace. If it ever comes a time when he wants everyone to be friends, no one would take his words seriously. You are what you do.
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2007-02-25, 22:30 | Link #460 | |
the red string of fate
Join Date: Jan 2007
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it was funny how willing Kallen was to kill Suzaku. when you look back on it, other than maybe saving that woman in episode 2, he hasn't done a single thing that has anything to do with his 'ideals' and his sense of morality. 0_o |
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