2006-07-18, 08:19 | Link #41 | |
Resident devil
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Philippines
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Vexx is right on about the ice-queen archetype. The difference is that in the East (and yes I've seen this also in several HK movies), she's meltable because she wants to. In the West, you have to break / shatter her, which isn't fair to her in any case. The point of being dere-dere only to the one you like is moot if chances are you've already scared him off. Well, duh everyone is dere-dere to the ones they like or love. Tsundere personalities are still approachable, that's the big difference. |
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2006-07-18, 08:54 | Link #42 | |
Haruhiism Worshipper
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 39
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However though, I think Tsundere characters are endearing in fiction because they are in fiction in the first place. The readers/viewers aren't subjected to the "abuse" that the main character goes through yet they get to see the character progression. Sort of like reaping the rewards without the work if you will. |
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2006-07-18, 09:02 | Link #43 | |
芸術は爆発だ!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 36
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Well, I more see myself as just being a bit strict with them, I guess? I'm not their girlfriend, and I don't want them to think they can get away with stupid stuff around me, that's all. But at the same time, I care about my friends a lot and if they were hurt, or having a problem, I'd definitely listen to them and let them cry if they wanted. I want to do my best just like anyone else. |
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2006-07-18, 13:01 | Link #45 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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I don't know what's sadder, criticizing "tsudere" as being a camouflaged 1D personality or insisting that it isn't. Tsundere is a new name for a very old ARCHETYPE. It's a model of a balance of temperaments that have proven profitable in fiction, and I can't count the number of female characters who resemble Lina Inverse or Akane Tendo. It's like the way artists set up the outline of a face before actually drawing it. the overall outline is pretty stable, but the end result ranges all the way from Mona Lisa in the louvre to my stuff.
As far as I know, no woman in real life or fiction is ever entirely "tsuntsun" or "deredere". As Prophet said, general personality can often be decomposed into a simple balance of temperaments, with the exception of mental instabilities. The girls are often designed with a strong temperament because it leads to potential conflict and comedy, and because the authors can find a way for her to be won over. The real question is how well the author can construct motives and history to back up the start and the change. Even so, i generally don't expect too much from TV anime, since the deadlines put some limit to the depth that can be created. All that said, I too enjoy this popular archetype, partly because I like the comedy. |
2006-07-18, 13:36 | Link #46 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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The thing is.. its an "archetype" ... meaning a template from which a more complex character can be created ... or a label to apply to a more complex character to simplify analysis. Like any other stereotype, people land along the bell curve in various points. My redheaded best friend could be described as hot tempered but he's also quite capable of much more subtle diplomacy (provided he's not drinking). My wife lands in a tsundere category... but she spends a lot of time laughing as much as Tsuruya in the Haruhi series and shares some of her aspects as well.
Its the same problem I used to run into with my humanities teacher in high school. Throwing a label on a character can have the effect of discounting the variances which make them more interesting and less "cardboard". Motoko/Love Hina does not equal Yuri/Magikano, for example though they share some features. (sidenote: Sturgeon's Law is something I invoke occasionally, especially when describing things but in reality, it is a collapse of the statistical curve. It is hyperbolic and therefore not accurate.) This archetype is one of my favorites but if it were the same static personality repeatedly it would get boring ... what is interesting is watching for the variances.
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2006-07-18, 15:15 | Link #47 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Mmm.... mmmmm..... I hear you go out on work trips sometimes..? |
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2006-07-18, 15:35 | Link #48 |
無謀
Join Date: Sep 2004
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This term is getting out of hand with its overuse.
I think we need to tighten up the definition of TsunDere here a bit, or the label will fit on just about everyone. This is my feeling: TsunTsun: being for more rude/harsh/ and unfriendly than normal. prickly, unsociable, arrogant whatever. A TsunDere is 90+% TsunTsun, and is their default mode. Usually they are like this for a reason: being nobility, or simply being jealous. Few people can afford to be this way for long, because you wont have many friends or business associates left in short order. DereDere: fawning, happy, goofy, silly, blushing, needy. Almost noone is like this all the time, though some people tend to be happy and silly alot. Cordial: the vast majority of people are sufficiently friendly and normal. They are seldom pricly except when pissed off, and seldom deredere except when drunk. |
2006-07-18, 16:22 | Link #49 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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Besides... though she still gets carded, she's probably old enough to be your mom [she's one of those small perky japanese types with long hair ... put her in twin tails and since she has to shop in the teen section... she's always getting carded and I'm always getting glared at]
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Last edited by Vexx; 2006-07-18 at 16:54. |
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2006-07-18, 19:03 | Link #50 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
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Akane Tendou was definitely my first tsundere character. My (current) favourite one is Ami Ninomiya from Rough. I'm assuming that she qualifies as a Tsundere, but she's definitely not 90% tsuntsun.
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2006-07-18, 19:26 | Link #51 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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So your wife has to shop in the teen section for...? |
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2006-07-18, 23:04 | Link #52 | |
Haruhiism Worshipper
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 39
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Quote:
I question the practicality of comparing a real person to a fictional archetype though - especially the dere side. Given the female's maternal instincts, wouldn't the dere side just be something present in all women? |
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2006-07-19, 00:27 | Link #53 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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Quote:
The clothing industry recently "resized" sizes again and she dropped from a size 2 adult dress to a size 0 just by showing up a day late. So when a woman tells you she wears a "size X" ... it doesn't mean anything anymore. They're fritzing the sizes to make women feel better instead of telling them to move faster. And now we're totally offtopic .... gomen.
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2006-10-24, 17:36 | Link #54 |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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Who was the first Tsundere?
Who was the first Tsundere in anime?
I was thinking about it when I was writing in the thread about revolationary anime. The earliest anime girl I can think off would be Asuka. And maybe before Asuka it would Misa Hayes form Macross. Can anyone think of anyone earlier then Asuka?
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2006-10-24, 17:43 | Link #56 |
Shitpost Gremlin
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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I kinda remember Kaori Makimura from City Hunter following the pattern of a tsundere, but not as obvious.
Madoka Ayukawa from Orange Road could be a candidate too. |
2006-10-24, 19:00 | Link #60 |
nya`
Artist
Join Date: Feb 2004
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I starting to grasp the concept. So say Akane is a tsundere, does this also apply the male counterpart, Ranma? I tought he was very interesting the way he always on edge with Akana, but when nobody is looking he was very sweet toward her. ^_^
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tsundere |
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