2016-06-22, 20:44 | Link #61 |
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Things aren't that clear though. I mean, for example, they want revenge, but revenge for what? For what happened 7 years ago, apparently. But we don't know exactly what happened back then. And until they reveal this, we won't be able to really understand why they feel they need to liberate the cluster from NUNS either.
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2016-06-22, 22:27 | Link #62 | |
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Sure they're clear. There's nothing unclear about the five motivations I put forward.
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I can somewhat sympathize with them feeling a lot of resentment over that. But it was something that was used during the last war, 7 years ago. There had been peace since that war ended. Quite frankly, maybe they should get over it. And heck, that might even be the parallel and message that Kawamori is aiming for - That real world Japan benefits by distancing itself from WWII and the old horrors of the past. That old nationalistic resentments does not do Japan any favors. I really do think there's a good chance that Windermere is based on WWII era Japan. The NUNs likely represent the United States/United Nations. The dismissive arrogance the NUNs show towards Ragna is probably meant to reflect the dismissive cultural arrogance that other nations sometimes see coming from the United States. So yes, NUNs aren't perfect, they're supposed to be flawed, to show that Windermere's grievances with them (just like Japan's grievances with America and the UN) aren't entirely baseless. Even still, Windermere needs to let it go, and look beyond the flaws of the other side, to see where peaceful coexistence is possible. This may well be where Delta goes.
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2016-06-22, 22:45 | Link #63 | |
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There are many things we don't know about this, and I honestly can't say I understand Windermere until I get the whole picture.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2016-06-22 at 23:09. |
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2016-06-22, 22:47 | Link #64 | |
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2016-06-22, 22:56 | Link #66 | ||
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
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I can't believe you just said this. I mean: "get over it?" Really? The implication about what the dimension eater did seems to be on an even worse level than Pearl Harbour, or 9/11. We still don't know who did it, so it's highly possible that Windermere didn't do it to themselves, especially if that was where their own Protoculture ruins were. This is a people that feel everything with their runes, so can you imagine the pain they might have felt? And you're telling them to just "get over it?" I said in in my last post and I'll say it again: I honestly think you need to stop thinking about what you would do, and actually think about how things appear from Windermere's perspective. Quote:
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2016-06-22, 23:32 | Link #68 |
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Trying to play peacemaker here: I do agree that people need to forgive and move forward rather than stewing in anger over the crimes of the past, because an eye for an eye just makes the whole world blind. Someone need to break the cycle of violence. On the other hand, its pretty clear that event left a massive wound on the psyche of many Windermereans. I don't think they've healed enough to be ready to make peace with the off worlders yet. Especially with NUNS claiming they did it to themselves.
Could you elaborate on this? I'm curious. |
2016-06-22, 23:41 | Link #69 | |||
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You know, Kazu-kun, there's a cost to doing dramatic last-minute sob stories that by all rights should have been revealed earlier. This is a really bad anime trope that has hurt many anime shows, in my view. I hope Delta doesn't make that kind of mistake. Quote:
War is a dangerous thing. If you declare a war, you're taking a risk, especially if you're declaring a war on a more powerful party. Quote:
Here's some questions for you, Karice - Which side of the NUNs/Windermere conflict keeps talking about annihilating or eradicating or ridding themselves of the other side? Which side acts like peaceful coexistence is completely impossible? Do you really think Kawamori wants these sorts of attitudes to be sympathetic?
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2016-06-22, 23:44 | Link #70 | ||
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@Triple_R Then why do people start wars of independence? Do you really think a nation/country will do that just because they want to fight? Why did the US start a war of independence in the 1700s? Are you really trying to argue that nothing could have happened that would have made Windermere want to regain their independence? Quote:
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Last edited by karice67; 2016-06-30 at 23:47. |
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2016-06-23, 00:00 | Link #71 |
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A few episodes back, the anime revealed that the ruins are connected to the core of the planet. In the latest episode the main characters expressed concern that damaging the ruins could hurt the planet, due to the connection between the ruins and the core. All in all, it feels like this is building up to a bigger reveal later on. I could be wrong, but there are enough hints to make me consider the possibility.
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2016-06-23, 00:07 | Link #72 | |
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2016-06-23, 00:16 | Link #73 |
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I can't help but wonder just how important those ruins were to the protoculture (and what they thinking when they they did it) if they were willing to attach the ruins to a planets core despite (probably) knowing that destroying them could potentially damage or alter a planet and/or its environment.... Just what on earth were/did the protoculture try(ing) to do with the ruins?
Anyone know or have any theories? |
2016-06-23, 00:18 | Link #74 | |
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2016-06-23, 00:21 | Link #75 | |
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By implication, isn't that akin to saying that what Union forces did during the American Civil War (destroying food and supplies that the South needed, by targeting the people) was ok? That the carpet bombing of cities on both sides of WW2 was ok?
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2016-06-23, 00:32 | Link #76 | |
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With Windermere, I see a people (or at least its government) that are trying to completely blame others for everything bad that has happened to their world and on their world. And I see the Windermere side repeatedly talk about eradicating and annihilating their enemy, with peaceful coexistence being treated as an impossibility. Do you really think that these attitudes are sympathetic? Are these the sort of attitudes that should be justified? I see some very unfortunate implications if Windermere is ever presented as right in feeling the way they do.
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2016-06-23, 01:11 | Link #77 | |
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But then the question becomes: so why does Windermere not think that peaceful coexistence is possible? Why did they think that they had no choice but to go to war? Is it because NUN did something so terrible to them that they simply cannot trust them? That's the difference between you and the other members of the 'Windermere should be crushed' faction and those of us who are waiting to find out the real truth behind Windermere's extreme stance. We believe that it is quite possible that NUN/the 'colonizers' did something that warrants it - after all, they were completely willing to go to Ragna and unilaterally destroy the Protoculture Ruins there, without allowing the Ragnans any say in the matter whatsoever. Do you seriously expect Windermere to trust an external power that will come in and destroy something that is obviously incredibly important to their people just like that? Especially if the Windermereans think it was NUN that destroyed the ruins on their planet? Tell me, if they believe that NUN is a threat as long as they remain in the sector, what else can they do besides try to kick them out?
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2016-06-23, 01:26 | Link #78 |
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The way I see it, the Windermere supporters rely on speculation, word of mouth and their understanding of anime meta. I can't speak for the other people who oppose the Windermere aggression, but I myself rely on what we have seen happen in the show and I take the things said by the obvious aggressors, i.e. Windermere, with a big grain of salt. Gramia is so crazed with a desire for vengeance that he is willing to sacrifice his own son, i.e. the future sovereign of his planet to get said vengeance. It would not be unusual to have him do some creative editing of the real events. It is also not unlikely that he was duped by the Epsilon faction.
For the moment, I'd rather believe our protagonists, i.e. Chaos, who do not seem to think that NUNS dropped a bomb on the Windermerans seven years ago. I would rather trust the people who are defending against the aggressors who use mind-control tech to take away the free will of billions of people and commit warcrimes and acts of terrorism to get to their goals.
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2016-06-23, 01:36 | Link #79 | ||
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2016-06-23, 01:45 | Link #80 | ||
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