2010-08-16, 00:23 | Link #81 | |
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The good guys have lost: one hand (Hacchi), one arm (Soifon) and two more units (Love&Rose). I'd say the battle is mostly balanced, it's just that the good guys never die for good! |
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2010-08-16, 01:08 | Link #82 | |
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The only real loss on the good guys side so far is Ukitake. Sorry if if that offends any Rangiku or Momo fans. But who knows. The good guys might be in for another loss pretty soon when you consider who's finally stepping up to the plate. |
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2010-08-16, 14:26 | Link #86 | |
Master of The Sword
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2010-08-16, 19:44 | Link #88 | ||
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Shikai can be incredibly powerful--sometimes surpassing banaki ability of other characters. Even if it's not quite on Kyouka Suigetsu's level, Shunsui's is up there in terms of cheapness power. Not all shikai are borderline useless like Ichigo's and Renji's.
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Last edited by Sabaku Kyu; 2010-08-16 at 20:01. Reason: ah, anime-only thread. sorry guys! |
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2010-08-16, 19:54 | Link #90 | |
Shougi Génération
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e.g. Love and Rose were going down, they knew they couldn't handle Stark on their own. And yet? Yet they never went bankai. The -only- guy that did go Bankai literally disappeared never to be heard of again. It's not about the shikai. It's about the story. The Espada had no presence on the battlefield. NOTHING. I guess I probably shouldn't be surprised in a manga/anime like Bleach. It -is- a whole lot of nothing.
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Last edited by Frenchie; 2010-08-16 at 21:11. |
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2010-08-16, 20:26 | Link #91 | |
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
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The Espada are wasted, underused characters. They just aren't actually weak. Fighting-wise their abilities have been impressive, and I think it's a little unfair when their strength gets based purely on the body-count. Stark in particular gets the short of the stick because of Shunsui killed him in a short amount of time without bankai. Stark was handling two captains and later two vizard captains easily. Yeah, Shunsui could've gone bankai but he used opportunity and strategy instead You may still not agree but I think it's like judging the Gotei 13 captains based on their ability to kill a few teenagers in SS. That wasn't going to happen under any circumstances. Unfortunately, It's doubtful the Espada get to redeem themselves against new set of powerful enemies in the next arc P.S. Kindly edit out spoilers from my quote if you could please :P My fault.
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2010-08-16, 20:58 | Link #92 | |
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Location: Slaping Mayuri Kurotsuchi around in Quincy Town :D
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Oh and you have to edit out your own spoilers
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2010-08-16, 21:13 | Link #93 | |
Shougi Génération
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2010-08-17, 04:59 | Link #95 | ||
cho~ kakkoii
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I was talking about the kind of observation we needed to make to form our own conclusion about the power difference because Kubo is so reluctant (more like, incapable) to clearly point it out. For example, when Ulqui was shooting his ceros, the effort was almost a ritual to effect a cero. Stark shot those cero with ultimate ease and with infinite frequencies. In this observation Stark is obviously leagues above Ulqui. I agree Stark defeated two Captain class Vaizard and it was impressive, but let's not forget that Ulqui completely dominated Ichigo in his vaizard form who is a captain class in his own right. At the time it didn't seem the outcome was going to be any different if there were 10 Ichigo fought Ulqui. At no point did it seem like Ulqui was overpowered. So why should it be any different for Stark in a fight against a few Vaizards? He is supposedly stronger than Ulqui, isn't he? Stark's victory over the two Vaizard class also came after he made his adjustment with those wolf thingies. Love and Rose were visibly making Stark uncomfortable until then. The reason Shunshui was able to sneak in a stab in Stark's back because he was so focused on those two to notice Shunshui's presence. What does it say about Stark's ability and/or his ranking? As for Halibel, she has been completely dominated physically and mentally against a much inexperienced captain like Hitsugaya. How did she earn her ranking? In fact, does the ranking even mean anything? Quote:
About the power-boost thing and the restrictions that are observed in the Karakura town, I believe it goes for both sides, the bad guys and the good. I think pettanko taicho, Soi Fon, briefly touches on the limiter that is automatically imposed on SS member when they cross the gate to come into the physical world like Karakura town.
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2010-08-17, 05:18 | Link #96 | ||
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2010-08-17, 10:52 | Link #97 | |
Enjoy
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Texas
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2010-08-17, 12:22 | Link #98 | |
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So abilities aside, one would think that Espada's 3-1 would be even faster and stronger than Ulquiorra given their rankings. But there really weren't too many obvious moments in these battles where one felt like the Espada completely dominated in this regard -- even after they all released. It's only when their own unique abilities were brought forth that the tides of battle began to change and the outcomes became decided. For instance, Barry as a fighter never felt overwhelmingly faster than Soifon (or even Omaeda for that matter). He just had a really cheap ability that made him dangerous. In a straight sword fight, Hitsugaya and Halibel could've went on for days since neither one seemed to dominate above the other in either strength or speed. Same goes for Shunsui and Stark. Now if the Espada's fighting capabilities accurately complimented their respective rankings, then all 3 of the top Espada should've been virtually untouchable to almost every captain there. In the end, this is why Espada's 3, 2, & 1 felt so underwhelming in comparison to Ulquiorra IMO. They felt lacking in shear physical prowess and basic fighting capabilities in comparison to #4. And all the battles came down to who had the better ability and who could outsmart the other while utilizing said abilities. Last edited by sayde; 2010-08-17 at 12:35. |
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2010-08-17, 13:24 | Link #99 | |
Enjoy
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And also, Aizen realizes that Ichigo isn't at the same level as the Captains, Ulquiorra says 'he (AIzen) left us weaklings here to take care of you' doesn't he? Last edited by Mr.Amazing; 2010-08-17 at 13:26. Reason: more |
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2010-08-17, 14:24 | Link #100 | ||
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Using clever strategies and wits is great. I'm all for it. In fact it would've been awesome to see some of those abilities, strategies, and wits used to level the playing field against opponents who for all intents and purposes should've been vastly physically superior to the captains. But instead, a lot of the strategies and wits were used to support battles based mostly around abilities and techniques instead. I think Kubo begins to use a decent example of how I would've liked the battles with the Espada to play out later on, but for the sake of spoilers, I can't go into specifics. It's true that Ichigo may not be captain level yet. But it's not because of his strength, speed, or spiritual energy. It's for pretty much everything else -- (intelligence, tactics/strategy, maturity, experience, control, etc.) Also Ulquiorra's statement makes the disparity between his own strength and the other 3 Espada feel all the more greater -- which makes their performance all the more underwhelming. Last edited by sayde; 2010-08-17 at 14:42. |
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