2011-09-23, 16:57 | Link #1 | |
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CERN Discover Faster-Than-Light Particle
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011...d.html?_r=1&hp
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2011-09-23, 22:09 | Link #2 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
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The thread title is misleading -- Physicists MAY HAVE discovered SOME PARTICLES can move faster than light UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS. They are trying to make sure they haven't made a mistake in the set up or missed some extenuating issue.
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This story is already being discussed in the NEWS STORIES thread.
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2011-09-23, 22:22 | Link #3 |
Senior Member
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Location: Land of the rising sun
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Moving a certain distance within a certain time does not automatically mean it exceeded the speed of light violating Einstein's special relativity theory. Although a more stranger event, the neutrino particles may have manipulated dimensional/gravitational effect achieving "Warp" which does not violate special relativity theory and was even predicted within general theory of relativity.
For example, IF neutrino particles is not affected by gravity then theoretically distance between the two points will become shorter compensating the warping effect of earth gravity. |
2011-09-24, 09:05 | Link #5 | |
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... Sorry, I never studied physics |
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2011-09-24, 16:06 | Link #8 |
sleepyhead
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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I agree with Tri. It's much more likely to assume at this point (assuming it wasn't an error to begin with) that the particles traveled though some warp mechanism (ie. they didn't travel faster then the speed of light, space bend and moved around them). From a observer's point of view, the same results should show up. This warp-drive has been theorized almost at the same time Einstein proposed his theory, so it's nothing new... it technically should work.
Of course this is assuming this result isn't just hot air.
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2011-09-24, 17:26 | Link #9 | |
Also a Lolicon
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Thank you for raining on my parade Tri. I was about to decide whether to throw relativity or casualty out the window.
Tri, what do you think about other possibilities. I was looking around in Wikipedia and Quote:
I'm not much of a physics person, and the papers it references are a bit confusing. Would these theories explain the faster than light neutrinos at CERN? I'll try to perform the same experiment in my microwave. Also, Buying: IBM 5100. |
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2011-09-24, 17:31 | Link #10 | |
sleepyhead
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Obviously I'll need to stick my nuts into the particle accelerator to achieve time travel! >:D
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2011-09-24, 17:42 | Link #11 | |
I'll end it before April.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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For some people, it's even the Newton's theory about the gravity which is not correct. The main problem is that most of the scientist are working with the Einstein's theory. |
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2011-09-24, 18:48 | Link #12 |
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
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Uhm, well Einsteins theory seems to be a valid model if the context where it actually applies is carefully defined. In that regard Einstein's theory is certainly not outright wrong, just not complete... or well defined in its limits of application.
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2011-09-24, 19:02 | Link #13 | |
sleepyhead
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2011-09-24, 19:10 | Link #14 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Many of you keep using the word "wrong" ... in a wrong way
A theory or model is perfectly correct for the regimes it had been tested under. Newton's models were just fine until we started observing velocities and forces outside of Newton's available observations. We still use Newton for most orbital mechanic flight navigation and earth engineering. It is correct for velocities well below lightspeed and for non-extreme gravities. Einstein and the quantum mechanics crowd added models that explain regimes way outside the average human's daily experience where Newton's equations start failing to match up with the experimental data. Many scientists are starting to think there isn't "one grand theory" so much as a patchwork of theories (m-theory) that will eventually handle all the situations we encounter. I kind of think that's a form of "giving up" but so far we've been unable to fully integrate the models we use to predict world behavior at the very small and the very large. And, technically, no model of any kind is ever "fact" or "Reality" -- its always going to be the best guess for what is going on "out there outside of our heads". The keyboard you think you're typing on, is simply your brain's interpretation ("model") based on various sensory inputs. You're using a mental model ... which you might have to update or discard if your keyboard bites your fingers off one day.
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2011-09-24, 20:56 | Link #15 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Actually, the faster than speed of light = travelling back in time effect is more towards an idea of that time is slower relatively from the particle's point of view (time passes slower), therefore, it was frozen in a position in time while the rest of us moved forward. Relativity STILL COUNTS, it is just that the "light barrier" was broken. * - I propose that if this theory is valid, the effect in which the particle changes shape to a bullet through travelling faster than the speed of light should be called the Danmaku Effect.
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2011-09-24, 22:35 | Link #16 |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
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So we have far breached the Aeon of Newton, and the Aeon of Einstein is close to becoming obsolete (well, not really obsolete, just no longer the upper echelon of physics). I wonder what Aeon will emerge...
(I hope someone gets the references. )
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2011-09-27, 06:08 | Link #18 | |
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just few information it seem it's not the first one this is happening. 2007 in fermilab the do similar experiment and found faster than light neutrinos. howver the differce is small so the thought of anomaly it seem they will repeat same result in 2012 (will this be end of the world that maya predict? )
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2011-09-27, 06:21 | Link #19 |
The Voice of Reason
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Age: 47
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I doubt that will happen. It will only effect the quantum mechanics of our known universe, and that is a subject that even Einstein himself couldn't tackle properly. He had enough trouble with the duality of light as it is, that he introduced the photon particle to try and explain why light behaves as both a wave ad a particle. Nowadays, it's largely assumed that this is correct, but we're not 100% sure that it is indeed so (though that is pretty much impossible anyway).
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2011-09-27, 09:03 | Link #20 | |
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As for this enigma if proven true and if neutrinos are not manipulating dimensional space then it will truly redefine our understanding of matter and mass as we know it and not just the confinement of quantum mechanics since it goes against Einstein's special relativity theory postulating that any mass cannot reach light speed due to Inertia and momentum where an object's speed approaches the speed of light from an observer's point of view, its mass appears to increase thereby making it more and more difficult to accelerate it from within the observer's frame of reference and at c, mass becomes infinite there by making it impossible to go beyond the speed of light within our known spacetime. Another possibility is that this finding may hold the key to the illusive Grand Unified Theory in which physics still have not been able to unify gravity with electromagnetism. |
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