PDA

View Full Version : Ano Hi Mita Hana no Namae o Boku-tachi wa Mada Shiranai (generic thread)


Pages : 1 2 [3] 4

Asterisk
2011-04-29, 03:24
Poor Yukiatsu, he seems to be suffering from a bit of inferiority complex. Personally I wouldn't victimize him as a sicko cause if he's gone as far as to cross-dress, he's definitely dealing with some deep mental issues.
And as we all know, we shouldn't pour salt on a wound.

Now concerning the episode, it's great as always, but seriously someone needs to bash Anjou's friends or severely cuss the **** out of them cause they deserve it.

Ravenblitz
2011-04-29, 03:44
http://i.imgur.com/P5TFJl.jpg (http://imgur.com/P5TFJ)

ZODDGUTS
2011-04-29, 03:44
Yukiatsu is one sick bastard that's for sure. Yikes. :uhoh:

Aesthetic Shampoo
2011-04-29, 03:51
Because it would look weird for him to buy female clothes on his own? Thanks to Tsuruko, people would think he is buying for her, like the store assistant did.

I would've thought he would be more concerned with the possibility that somebody close to him might discover his secret (if there is one) than what people he most likely will never see again think. And even if Tsuruko wasn't there he could always smile and lie...

winhlp32
2011-04-29, 04:08
From another forum:

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/9168/1304046620205.jpg

konart
2011-04-29, 04:37
To tell the truth - it won't be much of surprise for me if turns out that Menma's death wasn't really an incident.

Reckoner
2011-04-29, 04:41
From another forum:

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/9168/1304046620205.jpg

I think that pretty much settles it. Poor fool. :heh:

stormy001_M1A2
2011-04-29, 04:42
I am surprised that this anime series don't have an exclusive forum yet. This is a very good story, much better than melodramatic Iroha.

PzIVf3
2011-04-29, 04:56
Its too soon to tell if Yukiatsu is invloved in the past there something else bothering me about Tsuruko behavior its look she acting like a boss trying to blackmail something to Yukiatsu.

Sebasu
2011-04-29, 05:23
^ I don't know about Tsuruko, for me it feels like..
she might be in love with Yukiatsu and at the same time it hurts for her knowing he's hopeless and can't move on with Menma. If not "in love", then she simply feels very sorry as his closest friend. I can see her carrying the "it's all Menma's fault" card for some reason...

That's just my guess since Tsuruko and Yukiatsu are the only ones who remained friends the longest up until now, and also how she acts indifferently on Menma's death.

I personally find Tsuruko to be the most interesting. I love her attitude. ^^

Saturn Beaver
2011-04-29, 05:34
Yeah, I noticed the watch, that one is just the final evidence nail in the coffin. Well, leaving Yukiatsu's bombshell at the end of the episode, one thing that really bothers me is this: who exactly is it that Yukiatsu is buying the girls' accessory for? We know it's not Tsuruko, and while it's easy to say that it's for his crossdressing, I'm thinking of another thing. This is because from what little we can see of him, it doesn't look like she's wearing any accessories...and another thing I notice, the wrist accessory thingy (sorry I don't know the name, I'm really clueless about these sort of things) that he was looking at in the store looks to be the same model as the one Naruko wears. When they met it seems like it's the first time in a long time they just met though, maybe they're lying about that?

I thought he may wear it on the right hand that we can see, but Naruko clearly wears it on her left hand. Also, Menma wasn't shown wearing those things, I've checked because I wonder if Naruko starts wearing it also because she's influenced by Menma, but neither Menma nor Naruko wore those as a kid. So...am I looking too deeply into nothing here? Like, it's just a coincidence that Yukiatsu was looking at the same thing that Naruko usually wears, and it really is for his crossdressing purposes? Just food for thought, I suppose...

tsunade666
2011-04-29, 06:28
From another forum:

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/9168/1304046620205.jpg

This guy is really creepy :frustrated:

I had suspicion thanks to the scene where he buys an accessory without a girl to give it too. That can also explains why he had a dress of menma but still I can't understand what happens inside this creepy guys brain. It looks to me his provoking Ginta but why crossdress? it's like a total bomb on my brain. is he homo? homo ka!? Sena will like this idea or any fujoshi but man what am I thinking. Crazy idea that maybe creepy also likes ginta.... okay brush that gay idea.

PzIVf3
2011-04-29, 06:31
Anyone notice Tsukuro also wear a watch? He's not so slimmy and whitey skin to wear Menma clothe?

hero147
2011-04-29, 06:45
I feel more and more sorry for Jintan every passing episode. =(

CWW
2011-04-29, 06:46
Man, his mother passed away too after Menma's fatal accident? No wonder his life sucks. Totally not the same situation as Yukiatsu is in who, from the clues so far, has some deep-rooted mental issues. The passing of your parent at a young age is a huge, HUGE, life changer, moreso than the passing of your best friend. This cannot be understated. When the two collide in a short period of time, well, let's say I can totally sympathize with Jinta. I'm not saying Yukiatsu is a freak or anything, at least not with these vague hints, but his situation shouldn't be compared to Jinta's. Furthermore, I think there's more than meets the eye to Menma's accident that Jinta doesn't know about, and if that comes to light, then, well, I have my handkerchief ready.

Pellissier
2011-04-29, 06:56
Anyone notice Tsukuro also wear a watch?
Yup.

http://i.imgur.com/UyvlNl.jpg (http://imgur.com/UyvlN)

And Tsuruko's skin is indeed lighter than Yukiatsu's. For all we know, she might even cosplay as Menma to please him (or to have him fall for her). I also see her having quite the crush for him. And if she dressed like Menma in front of him, then Yukiatsu's claim that she's seen Menma would not be a complete lie anymore.

The thing is, while the original theory of Yukiatsu crossdressing and then lying is plausible, I'm not too confident in blatant hints, because often they turn out to be red herrings.

stormy001_M1A2
2011-04-29, 07:00
I think it is too early to speculate as to who is the fake ghost. I would rather watch for more clues though I suspect it was the glasses girl. If she is the one then make sense since she is trying to get the guy to look at her instead of moping over some dead childhood friend.

physics223
2011-04-29, 07:05
I've written up on the second episode belatedly (http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2011/04/ano-hi-mita-hana-no-namae-wo-bokutachi-wa-mada-shiranai-02-further-comparisons-with-hc/) and this series is similar to Honey and Clover in certain aspects such as unrequited love ... and I love that. I think that Anjou understands Jinta's struggles and that's why she tries her best to help him despite the fact that he's pushed essentially everybody away. She didn't become close to him because of her friends' teasing, but she's always cared for him and seems to patiently wait until Jinta turns around and sees her. I also saw the same with Tsuruko who is quite concerned with Yukiatsu although she doesn't show it. While all we have are simply insinuations for the time being, it's either a deep concern due to friendship or her waiting for him to get over Menma. I seem to feel it's the former more than the latter, although the latter possibility cannot be ignored.

Anjou's obviously the torchbearer, however. She lit up with their excursion during the second episode, and no longer is afraid to be by his side even at his times of distress: she may not have defended him properly against his friends, but she showed where her heart lay, and she followed him to their meeting place, unafraid of shying away. That's a far cry from her chic and haughty actions during the first episode.

I can't say much about Tsuruko as not much is yet elaborated regarding her, but if she's held a torch for Yukiatsu I would say I'd be as much as a curmudgeon as she is. :)

EDIT: I agree with people who say that there's frankly little to discuss about this series, but that's not a bad thing for me. Not all anime are like Paranoia Agent or Tatami Galaxy.

Kanon
2011-04-29, 07:15
Another great episode.

Yukiatsu's pretty pathetic. Not because he possibly crossdresses as Menma (although that's quite creepy), but because he still hasn't gotten over his inferiority complex after all these years. His lie at the end was so bad it was painful, especially considering how smug he was while saying it. I hope he'll manage to get over it.

After the comments here, I'm not so sure Yukiatsu is the one coplaying as Menma anymore. Tsukuro does seem like a likely possiblity. Speaking of her, she came across as a lot more sympathetic in this episode, and far less pretentious. I was pleasantly surprise she decided to play along, I thought she wasn't even going to come to their little party.

Anaru looked lovely with her hair down. That white one-piece dress suited her too. She's the character I like the most so far. She has her issues as well, but unlike the others, she's already trying her best to overcome them. She's living in the present, and isn't looking back on the past as much as the others (Jinta and Yukiatsu), it seems to me.

stormy001_M1A2
2011-04-29, 07:19
Anaru is gradually losing her mask, that's for sure. But how far she would go for him is another matter.

Plus I have another theory: she could be faking the ghost too. She adores Menma and have a thing for the dude. So maybe she could be the one who sashaying around as the ghost. Plus she has the one piece white dress.

That's the problem, there is so many possibilities and so little infos given. Speculation at this point is a bit iffy.

physics223
2011-04-29, 07:30
I have this thought that most of those who watch this series have already watched Honey and Clover. Anjou and Yamada really seem to be similar people: they haven't given up on someone they've liked for years, and despite their shortcomings are the one who try to be upbeat on things. That's probably also the reason why I like her a lot as well.

Pellissier
2011-04-29, 07:36
I've updated some of the semi-animated signatures (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3583556&postcount=381), alleging a much better image stock (lacking previously). I've only updated Tsuruko, Yukiatsu and Poppo since Jintan, Menma and Anaru were already claimed and taken (and the images were good enough there I would add).

http://i.imgur.com/FtxdB.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/42CzA.jpg . http://i.imgur.com/iH7la.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/2enzN.jpg . http://i.imgur.com/2IUVD.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/C3dz8.jpg

Also adding 2 more "basic" signatures:

http://i.imgur.com/oaH6W.jpg . http://i.imgur.com/MzhNQ.jpg

All freebies. If you want your name in one of the last two signs, feel free to ask.

winhlp32
2011-04-29, 07:53
Yukiatsu does has Menma(?)'s dress, while Tsuruko hasn't been shown to have a set of Menma Apparel. So can't rule out the idea he is cross-dressing.

Also...

Yukiatsu: (To Jintan, final scene) "Hahaha, I'm just as mentally ill as you are!"

is what I got from that scene. The death of a loved one really screws people up.

applejuice
2011-04-29, 08:04
Toradora team animating this was the best idea I can ever imagine. 3rd episode again delivers correctly developed emotions of characters and the best dialogs that fits in the plot. But most of all, powerful direction supporting is, such as Yukiatsu's appearance, Jintan's attempt of going to school, and most of all, Poppo's interactions that brings tons of freshness to the atmosphere.

and, I never thought all 5 friends will meet this early in the series. It was really interesting development.

physics223
2011-04-29, 08:24
I think they had to meet up early, especially because there's only 11 episodes, if I'm not mistaken.

Mr.Garfield
2011-04-29, 09:05
Can you give me the source saying this was only 11 episodes please?
Personally I want a 24-26 episodes series, just for the sake of watching it. But with the main reason for this whole thing is "Menma's wish" and how far they've gone from the first 3 eps, i think 11-12 is an suitable number.

Westlo
2011-04-29, 10:00
Anaru with dat hair down and in dat dress.... Damn...

Can you give me the source saying this was only 11 episodes please?

It's Noitamina and No.6 and Usagi Drops are already locked in for the summer season.

PzIVf3
2011-04-29, 10:06
Its impossible to wear a old kids size Emma clothes to wear a adult version of Yukiatsu.

Westlo
2011-04-29, 10:08
Its impossible to wear a old kids size Emma clothes to wear a adult version of Yukiatsu.

Whoever the fake is could've got a dress made up or bought a similar enough looking one in that size.

Still I did get a laugh @ whoever implied that Yukiatsu was not only sniffing the dead Menma's dress but also wearing that same exact dress... lol :heh:

karice67
2011-04-29, 10:19
Its impossible to wear a old kids size Emma clothes to wear a adult version of Yukiatsu.Whoever the fake is could've got a dress made up or bought a similar enough looking one in that size.
Watch the conversation between Tsuruko and Anaru again, the one where they talk about the white dress that Anaru is wearing. The design doesn't actually matter that much - it's that Menma apparently wore a white dress most if not all of the time.

DragoZERO
2011-04-29, 10:23
Wonderful... simply wonderful.

Yukiatsu... he is going to stir things up quite a bit. The store scene was funny. That employee knew when to run, haha.

Anaru... so is really trying. I hope she gets through to Jinta at some point.

I really want to know how Menma died and all.

OceanBlue
2011-04-29, 10:30
I really want to know how Menma died and all.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were never mentioned. The story is about moving on, after all.

BetoJR
2011-04-29, 10:38
I don't think the specifics are going to stay a secret for very long, actually. But we'll see.

Haru~
2011-04-29, 11:02
I really hate people who are boastful and liar. And Yukiatsu got both. I really want to punch him at the end.

ipodi
2011-04-29, 11:10
It goes with libertarianism: I'm an advocate of the principle that people should be allowed and encouraged to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't bother anyone else, even if I personally disagree with whatever they are doing I have no place criticizing other people or imposing my morals. On that light, Jinta's or Yukiatsu's actions are no better or worse when compared with each other.

Honestly, there is no point in bringing politics into this. What's the point of watching a show if you can't empathize with or be critical of the characters? When that happens, the show would be a complete and total failure. Withholding your judgments on real people, but not on fictional characters.


I'm quoting you since you put in what many people in this thread think so concisely, but this is a general question. May I ask you who decided that? Yes, it's rhetorical.

I'll answer it anyway. The answer is evolution. Body odor emits chemicals and humans have evolved such that we can detect when females are ovulating by smelling them. This allows human to connect the body odor to the beginning of sexual courtships. Therefore, we naturally feel disgust when the target of this subtle sexual signal is one of a deceased young girl.

If you see or hear about someone who has stolen his sibling's shirt so that he could sniff it from time to time, what does this tell you about the person? Wouldn't this remind you an extremely disturbing sexual relationship in one of incest? Yes, it would. And we have evolved to avoid this through the emotion of disgust.

Let me add that I am not making a moral judgment. It's not morally wrong to sniff other people's garments. It is, however, disgusting nevertheless because of the sexual connotations such an action carries.

physics223
2011-04-29, 11:19
Not to disturb the discussion on disgust towards Yukiatsu, but does anyone else feel that there's little to discuss in the show? I don't think it says little, mind you: I think the show's great. I just feel that there's little to talk about, as it's a series of feelings (empathy) and moving on as compared to something cerebral.

Proto
2011-04-29, 11:25
Honestly, there is no point in bringing politics into this. What's the point of watching a show if you can't empathize with or be critical of the characters? When that happens, the show would be a complete and total failure. Withholding your judgments on real people, but not on fictional characters.

More than a matter of advocating 'be and let be', I guess what I was mainly trying to say is that people should be consistent in their judgments. *My* personal views are that of libertarianism and as such I am equally indifferent to both of them, however if people are being judgmental of one or the other I can't help but think that they are using double standards.

Therefore, we naturally feel disgust when the target of this subtle sexual signal is one of a deceased young girl.

I (totally) agreed with you up to this point. Some things I would like to point out here
- We don't have any definite dates here so I may be mistaken here, but I don't think Menma was old enough to have started her menstruation cycle.
- (even if this was the case)This gut factor caused reaction (showing disgust towards Yukiatsu) is something present in every reasonably intelligent species in our planet, and it's a perfectly reasonable explanation for a great number of our acts in general. However, it should not be justification for our acts but, imho, something one should strive to overcome through rationality. Hence I believe it is something that is worth pointing out for people to think of.

Vexx
2011-04-29, 11:48
Somehow missed this series in my lineup... adding it.

brocko
2011-04-29, 11:58
You guys can't hate on Yukiatsu, he brought all the meat and jazz to the party :heh:

Jokes aside, if it turns out that he's really cross-dressing, possibly as Menma then i expect some serious drama bombs down the road.
Damn you guys are observant/creative, the idea would've never occured to me at all if it wasn't for this thread and there actually is some weight to this crackpot theory since he's been buying women's accessories with the help of Tsuruko for what I'd imagine to be quite some time now (and even she doesn't where the hell they all end up going to lol). On the other side of the spectrum though, I'd laugh if it were a red herring and/or we're just looking for things that are simply not there. :p

Ano Hana best show this season, I'm calling it now. First episode had me thinking what a sleeper this show was. Only reason i even checked it out was because it was Noitamina. So glad i did.

That ED song is so damn perfect for this show too.

Guardian Enzo
2011-04-29, 12:07
Not to disturb the discussion on disgust towards Yukiatsu, but does anyone else feel that there's little to discuss in the show? I don't think it says little, mind you: I think the show's great. I just feel that there's little to talk about, as it's a series of feelings (empathy) and moving on as compared to something cerebral.

Honestly, I don't - and it seems like 28 pages of posts on 3 episodes agrees with the idea that there's plenty to discuss. For me, there's not much that's more interesting to discuss in the context of anime that emotion. Let's put it this way - this series has more posts and pageviews than C, and in my view, these two series make a pretty good model for the cerebral (C) vs. the heartfelt (AnoHana).

Pellissier
2011-04-29, 12:14
A few avatars of Anaru with her hairs down in episode 3. Freebies of course :)

http://i.imgur.com/wXZ6b.gif http://i.imgur.com/dHBFr.gif http://i.imgur.com/mpHZt.gif http://i.imgur.com/1Owkz.gif

http://i.imgur.com/qVRRi.gif http://i.imgur.com/NnMVA.gif http://i.imgur.com/rzFDG.gif http://i.imgur.com/42nOh.png

For other avatars (especially Menma, episode 1) see this post (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3571974&postcount=142) a few pages back.

KyriaL
2011-04-29, 13:00
What a unique series this turned out to be. Just marathoned the 3 episodes and I have to say i'm glad i gave it a shot. The show somehow gives a friendly air, unlike others.

Anh_Minh
2011-04-29, 13:12
It's possible Yukiatsu didn't lie about seeing Menma and sent everyone on a wild goose chase to have some alone time with Jinta.

(OK, not very likely.)

Iron Monkey
2011-04-29, 13:20
We sympathize with Jinta because we've seen enough about him to empathize with him. We call Yukiatsu a sicko because the only two things we know about him are that he goes to a prestigious school and that he sniffs Menma's clothes. And then some of us think he cross-dresses as a dead girl.

Honestly, I wonder if that's the case, but...

If you look at things from the perspective of Anaru's friends, they know Jinta about as much as we know about Yukiatsu. For all they know, Jinta's some weirdo sitting at home doing weirdo things too. For all we know, Yukiatsu is actually at home not doing weird things like people are speculating. So in a way, I think the poster has a point.

Miraluka
2011-04-29, 13:26
Oh, I've just noticed the ED song voice is Kayano Ai, with her last role being Itsuwa from Index series, I knew it had a familiar tone :heh:.

Pellissier
2011-04-29, 13:31
Oh, I've just noticed the ED song voice is Kayano Ai, with her last role being Itsuwa from Index series, I knew it had a familiar tone :heh:.
The first voice you hear in the ED song is Kayano Ai, but it's a trio (the other two being Tomatsu Haruka and Hayami Saori).
About Kayano Ai, other than Itsuwa she was Tachibana Isana in Yumekui Merry, if you've seen it. Considering that and how well she's performing with Menma, I think there's enough potential to become someone as a seiyuu.

Tu101uk
2011-04-29, 13:34
If you look at things from the perspective of Anaru's friends, they know Jinta about as much as we know about Yukiatsu. For all they know, Jinta's some weirdo sitting at home doing weirdo things too. For all we know, Yukiatsu is actually at home not doing weird things like people are speculating. So in a way, I think the poster has a point.
That's a fair point indeed. Again, I still think people are more put off with Yukiatsu, not by the fact that he's sniffing something in the first place (I am aware that people do this to remember other people by, and I think it's perfectly fine), but what he's actually sniffing and its potential implications - how in the world would he have obtained such a garment from a dead person without it coming off as creepy/dodgy in some way?

That's how I see it anyways, and if Menma had innocently given the garment to him while she were alive, that's fair enough and I can't really say anything about that, but given the current circumstances and what we know at the moment... :S

In any case, the guy really does need serious help (as does Jinta, he can see ghosts for goodness sake XD). I feel he's probably scarred deeper by Menma's death alone than any of the other five (whereas Jinta's problems, I'm starting to believe, have just compounded over the years - Menma's death, his mother's death, failing to get into a good school, etc.) and I wonder if it'll take more than his old friends to get over her death. Like I said earlier, I'm intrigued to see his development...

Anyways, I've had a whole day of work to think about this week's episode and, at the end of it, Tsuruko really is still the enigma of the group. Aside from the hints of a potential crush/love for Tsukiatsu, not much has been given up about how she used to fit in the dynamics of the group when she was younger. Was she a lonely girl who happened across this group of kids? Did she act like a mother/older sister of the group? Just how close was she to the other members of the group? It intrigues me that, although she still hasn't said Jintan or Anaru's names yet, she still uses the nicknames for Yukiatsu and Poppo, so she still clings to some memory/affection towards the gang in some way (though conversely, she keeps referring to Menma using her full name)...

I want to know so badly, waiting for the next episode is killing me... T.T

O-O~

DragoonKain3
2011-04-29, 13:39
Wow, Anaru still has it pretty bad. Letting her hair down + wearing a one-piece dress? Yeah, still wants to be like Menma. Though to be fair to her character, she is adding her own touches...

Menma still is the one that brings the most emotion for me though. It was quite touching during the scene with Jintan's mom's memorial, then amusement with her fascination of the sausage crab, and finally the irony that she wants to see her own ghost. Just a delight whenever she's on screen.

Tsuruko's dry-and-fact-of-the-matter 'bitchiness' is really getting points for me though. Even Yukiatsu isn't safe from her. :heh:


Now as for ghost Menma, yeah, there's just too many unknowns right now that anything is possible. Although I kinda want to rule Anaru out, considering that it didn't seem that ghost Menma had as big 'assets' as she does lol.


Not to disturb the discussion on disgust towards Yukiatsu, but does anyone else feel that there's little to discuss in the show? I don't think it says little, mind you: I think the show's great. I just feel that there's little to talk about, as it's a series of feelings (empathy) and moving on as compared to something cerebral.

I said as much a few pages back. While there are some small things people brought up, for the most part, they aren't nearly as 'polarizing' as say, the topics brought up in hanasaku iroha.

Malkuth
2011-04-29, 13:54
Doesn't anyone find strange that Menma switches freely between 1st and 3rd person when referring to herself (and I do not mean in a childish/girlish way). For example, at the end of the episode she joined Poppo to search for herself (or her own apparition) after Yuikiatsu's suggestion... WTF :confused:

Flower
2011-04-29, 13:54
I thought ep 3 was great ... but great in the sense of continuing to be great. :)

Tu101uk
2011-04-29, 14:02
Menma still is the one that brings the most emotion for me though. It was quite touching during the scene with Jintan's mom's memorial, then amusement with her fascination of the sausage crab, and finally the irony that she wants to see her own ghost. Just a delight whenever she's on screen.
Menma really grew on me this episode. She really is an airhead, isn't she? Who in the world says "I'm dead too, but I'm doing just fine!"? XD And she's so adorable when she's looking at the crab-cuts in the sausages or when she tries to find her own ghost. Her innocence wasn't lost in the transition from life to death, unlike the rest of the gang, who experienced the whole loss of innocence, a necessary part of the process of growing up, a little bit earlier than most with Menma's death.

Tsuruko's dry-and-fact-of-the-matter 'bitchiness' is really getting points for me though. Even Yukiatsu isn't safe from her.
Yup... XD Though I liked the fact she brought candles for the summoning, I don't know whether she was mocking the whole thing or was deadly serious about it (I could imagine her being that way :3)...

O-O~

Iron Monkey
2011-04-29, 14:04
Although there are hints of Yukiatsu being some cross dressing weirdo, I'm expecting it not to be. Usually when they give the clues away so easily, its the creators trying to trick the audience.

I'm thinking maybe he is encouraging someone to dress like Menma, and thus buying all these girl clothes and accessories for this person. Maybe it's some classmate or childhood friend who has a thing for Yukiatsu.

Jarmel
2011-04-29, 14:43
This has been really great so far. No complaints from me. My first thought was that everybody was seeing their own version of Menma, which would have been highly interesting, but I think the crossdressing theory works better.

CWW
2011-04-29, 15:09
Menma really grew on me this episode. She really is an airhead, isn't she? Who in the world says "I'm dead too, but I'm doing just fine!"? XD And she's so adorable when she's looking at the crab-cuts in the sausages or when she tries to find her own ghost. Her innocence wasn't lost in the transistion from life to death, unlike the rest of the gang, who experienced the whole loss of innocence, a necessary part of the process of growing up, a little bit earlier than most with Menma's death.
I think Menma is more mature and sadder than she's letting on. In the first episode she was quite distraught from her mother's words causing her to bump against the table. In the second episode she didn't dare go in Anaru's room fearing her presence would make her sad. In this episode she cried twice during moments that made her remember the days when she was alive.

I think she has regrets of her own which may have something to do with her wish. She died at a very young age after all. Nothing wrong with feeling sad over that. She does a good job at hiding her sadness, which is admirable. I don't think it's going to last long though, since I suspect there's going to be a few tearjerkers before it ends.

ars89
2011-04-29, 15:51
I wonder if Poppo really saw a ghost or not. Seems unlikely since someone posted that pic with that Menma with a watch. So it brings up the question who is dressing up like Menma and walking around.

Just when you think Jinta was about to change and go to school Anaru's friends ruin it. Get another glimpse of his past and see how upset he was that his mother was dying. I wonder what she died from.

Nice to see the whole gang was able to come together again. Nice interactions between the girls. I can't tell f Yukiatsu was lying or not when he said he saw Menma but the tone in which he said it made it sound like he was lying just to rub it in Jinta's face.

Menma was great as usual.

totoum
2011-04-29, 16:00
Menma really grew on me this episode.

Me too,CWW brings up a good point about her being sadder than she really is letting it appear to others.

This has been really great so far. No complaints from me. My first thought was that everybody was seeing their own version of Menma, which would have been highly interesting, but I think the crossdressing theory works better.

That was my impression as well before I started reading this thread,but the crossdressing theory has some serious proof behind it.
But I won't judge Tsukiatsu just yet,not to say that what he's doing isn't creepy but I'm sure that if he gets past his demons he'll show that he's not a bad person.

And also,not much discussion?I couldn't watch the episode yesterday,I watch it today and there's already 6 pages of posts to catch up on :heh:

Kanon
2011-04-29, 16:07
Menma really grew on me this episode. She really is an airhead, isn't she? Who in the world says "I'm dead too, but I'm doing just fine!"? XD And she's so adorable when she's looking at the crab-cuts in the sausages or when she tries to find her own ghost. Her innocence wasn't lost in the transition from life to death, unlike the rest of the gang, who experienced the whole loss of innocence, a necessary part of the process of growing up, a little bit earlier than most with Menma's death.

Yeah, Menma's the good kind of airhead. She's simply adorable. I liked how she kept changing her wish in order to manipulate Jinta (for his own good of course) too :p
She can actually be pretty smart.

Midnight Bliss
2011-04-29, 16:27
I love Menma, so bad. She's the good type of airhead and she's just adorable, and the scene when they mentioned the Super Peace right after she did and she starts crying really moved me. I'm still iffy and thinking about how she can interact with things while supposedly being dead, but I'm just going to let all the surprises hit me. Amazing show, I haven't looked forward to a show each week this much in a while.

FlareKnight
2011-04-29, 17:15
It's really hard to guess what's going on with Yukiatsu and Tsuruko since we haven't gotten that much from them. Does seem like there are numerous creepy possibilities going on with Yukiatsu. Might be cross-dressing as his dead friend, but it might be Tsuruko. Have him using that friendship to buy accessories though not sure for who. Maybe he's got a secret Menma shrine and needs accessories :heh:? Either way does seem like he was throwing out a smug and kind of pathetic lie at the end of the episode. Brings the most stuff, arrives late, and then says something like that. Really does seem like he's trying to show up Jinta.

Anaru really will need to dump or deal with those friends of hers if she's going to get anywhere. Can't have them sabotaging any brief chances that she gets with Jinta. The white dress look was pretty interesting. You can see the stress she's been having between being influenced and trying to find her own self in the middle of it. Besides think the hair down look worked for her in this episode. Wish her the best in the series since it'll be tough with what Jinta is dealing with.

First time that group has been together in a while and the differences are apparent. Will see how close they can get as the series goes on.

A few avatars of Anaru with her hairs down in episode 3. Freebies of course :)
http://i.imgur.com/dHBFr.gif
Will gladly use this one. Great job as always on the avatars.

Westlo
2011-04-29, 17:20
*hopes for an Naruko with long hair blowing in the wind scene later on in the series for avvie material*

Wow, Anaru still has it pretty bad. Letting her hair down + wearing a one-piece dress? Yeah, still wants to be like Menma. Though to be fair to her character, she is adding her own touches...

Originality is overrated, it's all about the execution baby and in that regard Naruko gets top marks!

Anh_Minh
2011-04-29, 17:25
...
Looks like I'm the only one who thinks white just isn't working for her.

(Showing off her thighs, though... did seem to have a nice effect on Jinta.)

Ravenblitz
2011-04-29, 17:55
http://i.imgur.com/4DQRbl.jpg (http://imgur.com/4DQRb)

Tu101uk
2011-04-29, 18:04
http://i.imgur.com/4DQRbl.jpg (http://imgur.com/4DQRb)
:o My gawd, that's a good quality pic... :D

Thanks for that, mate! ^_^

O-O~

OceanBlue
2011-04-29, 18:33
If you look at things from the perspective of Anaru's friends, they know Jinta about as much as we know about Yukiatsu. For all they know, Jinta's some weirdo sitting at home doing weirdo things too. For all we know, Yukiatsu is actually at home not doing weird things like people are speculating. So in a way, I think the poster has a point.
I know, but a point I made later on in the thread was that the girls aren't unlikeable because they have preconceptions about other people, but because they express them in poor ways. At least, in my opinion.

Sackett
2011-04-29, 19:00
I don't think Yukiatsu sniffing Menma's is that creepy. People do that to remember people quite often. If it was a mother smelling her dead daughters clothes we probably wouldn't bat an eye. Or for a daughter smelling her dead father's old shirt and reminiscing about the way he smelled when he tucked her in at night and sang her a lullaby or something.

It's just that it's a rather intimate action. Other then a spousal or parent-child relationship it's hard to find that. I guess siblings might- I could see a younger sister doing something like that if her adored older sister had died.

But to get that hung up over a friend? That's a little strange. I wouldn't put it in the creepy level yet, mainly because Yukiatsu was the same age as Menma, but still a sign that he's really hurting in some strange way.

The theory about cross dressing I'd tend to dismiss, but there are some evidences, not enough to even make it the most probable outcome, but possible. If that is the case then it makes Yukiatsu more pitiful then anything else.

Tsuruko and Yukiatsu are interesting because they both are the outsiders of the group. Jinta was the leader. Menma was the female leader and Jinta's second in command. Anaru was Menma's follower and sidekick, just as Poppo was Jinta's (although Anaru obviously had some more issues going on then Poppo).

Yukiatsu and Tsuruko however are both introverts. From the flashbacks Yukiatsu appears to have been the guy in the group who had the ability to argue with whatever Jinta had thought up. Probably also drawn on by Jinta to come up with plans to make Jinta's ideas reality. As long as Jinta maintained a leadership of merit I bet Yukiatsu accepted it, even if he felt beaten at least he was beaten by someone better than him.

But recent events shattered Jinta's aura of superiority, leading Yukiatsu to have disgust for this guy who defeated him. Yet at the same time there is the fear that Jinta will come back and take the leadership place again. That would explain his hostility- which to me seemed tinged with fear.

Tsuruko likely has a kinship with Yukiatsu because they are both the outsiders. As "the smart ones" I bet they were paired alot when they were kids- either as cooperators, or as competitors. (If your team gets Yukiatsu then our team gets Tsuruko!)

However she is very hard to read. Even her scene in the flashback, she seems to be that person who says and does things and you can never be certain if she is mocking you, or is she just taking your plan dead seriously and doing what needs to be done to make it work.

The only real notable thing I've seen so far is her apparent hostility for the other girls- which she does not display towards the guys at all. In the feud between Yukiatsu and Jinta she seems to want peace. Not sure if she blames the other girls for the breakup, or if she feels the sting of being the outsider girl more then Yukiatsu did as an outsider guy (perfectly believable, as guys tend to deal with ostracism better then women).

DragoZERO
2011-04-29, 19:13
Doesn't anyone find strange that Menma switches freely between 1st and 3rd person when referring to herself (and I do not mean in a childish/girlish way). For example, at the end of the episode she joined Poppo to search for herself (or her own apparition) after Yuikiatsu's suggestion... WTF :confused:Is it because she is being cute? Hmm...

I wish there she wouldn't appear in front of other people without Jinta being there. Having that what if about her being a hallucination would be a good touch. I want to call Fight Club too. :heh:

Yeah, Menma's the good kind of airhead. She's simply adorable. I liked how she kept changing her wish in order to manipulate Jinta (for his own good of course) too :p
She can actually be pretty smart.What I love is that the Menma is going to bring them all together again. That is obviously her wish. Now the question is whether she was the reason they all broke up or if they just grew apart... you know, for the irony.

Johnny
2011-04-29, 19:16
I don't think Yukiatsu sniffing Menma's is that creepy. People do that to remember people quite often. If it was a mother smelling her dead daughters clothes we probably wouldn't bat an eye. Or for a daughter smelling her dead father's old shirt and reminiscing about the way he smelled when he tucked her in at night and sang her a lullaby or something.

While I would agree with this statement, but they are not brother/sister or father/daughter so his action is still in the creepy column. Will need more evidence to see if he is actually crossdressing as Menma. If so then he'll be moved into the really creepy column. I would say the hair ties he keeps purchasing again could be linked to his crossdressing, but that's also just guessing...

Although I wouldn't be too surprised if we got a better glimpse of the scene where he was sniffing the dress. We would also discover some shrine of sorts that he has of Menma...

Guardian Enzo
2011-04-29, 19:42
Tsuruko and Yukiatsu are interesting because they both are the outsiders of the group. Jinta was the leader. Menma was the female leader and Jinta's second in command. Anaru was Menma's follower and sidekick, just as Poppo was Jinta's (although Anaru obviously had some more issues going on then Poppo).


You may be right and I don't think we've seen enough flashbacks to say for sure, but I read Menma and Anaru's relationship a little differently. I get the sense that, even then, Anaru deeply resented Menma for the stranglehold she had on Jinta's attentions, and that resentment bubbled over into open hostility at times. Menma, being both sweet and sweetly dense, was probably either too unaware or too kind to ever resent Anaru in return for her feelings - but I sense that Anaru kept a distance between herself and Menma, and I don't think she thought of herself as either a sidekick or follower.

CWW
2011-04-29, 19:52
There's speculation and then there's speculation. Anaru is a good gal. : (

Flower
2011-04-29, 19:55
....Now the question is whether she was the reason they all broke up or if they just grew apart... you know, for the irony.

I have been wondering if this were the case - but not in the sense of her consciously being the cause.

Afaict the dynamic between them all was something like this: (Mind this is mostly guess work on my part.)

****

We have Yukiatsu and Jinta both liking Menma (although perhaps to different degrees).

It is possible that Yukiatsu was jealous of Jinta.

Then we have Tsuriko liking Yukiatsu and Anaru liking Jinta.

And then we have Poppo happy and go-lucky in the midst of it all (at least it seems so).

Thus far it seems that Menma liked everyone but seems to have singled out Jinta, although not in the way, say, Anaru liked Jinta.

****

The interaction leading up to Jinta calling Menma ugly (mostly out of unthinking embarrassment than ill will) came to be especially powerful later on because shortly after Menma died an early death in a tragic way.

So this interaction (and maybe some interactions after and leading up to the death that have not yet been shown?) proved to impress itself very strongly in the consciousness of some of the group of friends - thus far we can see it really affected Jinta and Anaru.

In terms of materials not explicitly shown but possibly hinted at I think Yukiatsu sniffing Menma's clothes would fall into this category.

****

I think that the core of the story will involve everyone coming back together again. I also think that this is Menma's "wish" - a sort of "undoing" of what she unintentionally helped catalyst just before and after her death.

****

As for other people seeing Menma ... thus far it has been Poppo (actually shown in an episode) and Yukiatsu (although he only claimed so). I think that either Yukiatsu or Tsuriko dressing up is a possiblity, of course (or one of them arranging for someone not yet introduced to dress up as Menma for some strange reason) ... but I would agree that it is still too early in the story to say a definite yes or no with any one "answer".

Maybe there are other things that will come up and surprise us? Although to be honest maybe I am in "distrustful mode" of what seem clear story plots after being put through the wringer by the Madoka episodes. ;)

Sackett
2011-04-29, 20:28
You may be right and I don't think we've seen enough flashbacks to say for sure, but I read Menma and Anaru's relationship a little differently. I get the sense that, even then, Anaru deeply resented Menma for the stranglehold she had on Jinta's attentions, and that resentment bubbled over into open hostility at times. Menma, being both sweet and sweetly dense, was probably either too unaware or too kind to ever resent Anaru in return for her feelings - but I sense that Anaru kept a distance between herself and Menma, and I don't think she thought of herself as either a sidekick or follower.

I think Anaru is one of those people who when they are jealous or resentful of a person tend to emulate them and become their follower, while secretly still nursing their resentment.

Sort of a love hate thing. She hates Menma for being in her way, but loves and admires her as her ideal. She is a sidekick, but the kind of sidekick that's the sidekick because she desperately wants to be the hero- not because she wants to be a sidekick.

In a similar way even Yukiatsu might have had similar conflicted feelings for Jinta. The difference of course is that Anaru's competitor has been removed- which means the Menma will always be better then her and stay in the top position.

Yukiatsu instead sees his rival/ideal fall and fail. Which makes him more aggressive in thinking he really is the better man, but also enraging him that his former role model failed him.

Might be speculation, but that's the kind of dynamic I'm picking up.

wandering-dreamer
2011-04-29, 21:37
Switching gears a little, did anyone else get the impression that Jinta's mother first attempted suicide which put her in the hospital in the first place? There's a quick shot of a bandage on her arm which she covers up when she notices Jinta looking at it and I couldn't tell if that was supposed to be where she had an IV in (and didn't want to show it to Jinta and worry him more) or if it was supposed to show that she tried to commit suicide and was embarrassed about it. And if it's the second one, boy, no wonder Jinta has really withdrawn.

http://i.imgur.com/MzhNQ.jpg
All freebies. If you want your name in one of the last two signs, feel free to ask.

Mind if I snag this one then?

Westlo
2011-04-29, 21:56
Pretty sure she was just trying to hide the IV...

Guardian Enzo
2011-04-29, 22:15
Pretty sure she was just trying to hide the IV...

Yes, I'm pretty sure she just didn't want him to see the IV line. I assumed it was cancer or some similar illness, although they rarely get specific in anime.

Shadow5YA
2011-04-29, 22:27
Switching gears a little, did anyone else get the impression that Jinta's mother first attempted suicide which put her in the hospital in the first place? There's a quick shot of a bandage on her arm which she covers up when she notices Jinta looking at it and I couldn't tell if that was supposed to be where she had an IV in (and didn't want to show it to Jinta and worry him more) or if it was supposed to show that she tried to commit suicide and was embarrassed about it. And if it's the second one, boy, no wonder Jinta has really withdrawn.



Mind if I snag this one then?

No... I'm pretty sure she was just trying to hide the IV so that she doesn't appear weak and frail to Jinta.

There's a big difference between a hospital patient with no equipment attached and a patient attached to an IV drip, electrocardiograph, etc. The patient without the typical equipment on looks ready to leave any day. The person stuck to a bunch of machines could be there for weeks or months.



Also, concerning Yukiatsu, I really doubt he'll turn out as bad as he appears now. Considering they were all Menma's friends, it's impossible for any single one to be rotten to the core, or Menma wouldn't have been friends with them all.

brocko
2011-04-29, 22:40
I really hope kid Jinta had a good reason for lashing out at his mother like that. Left a very bad taste on me to be honest.

wandering-dreamer
2011-04-29, 22:47
I really hope kid Jinta had a good reason for lashing out at his mother like that. Left a very bad taste on me to be honest.

That was another reason why I was wondering what had landed her in the hospital, he could very easily be just mad at her for being sick or mad at her for trying to kill herself. But I agree that Soap Opera Disease (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SoapOperaDisease) is probably what happened, poor Jintan.

Guardian Enzo
2011-04-29, 22:54
Way, way harsh. Jinta is supposed to be what, 8 or so there? That's incredibly difficult, seeing your mother in a sickbed like that - I don't think his reaction was surprising at all.

brocko
2011-04-29, 23:25
First reactions for your own terminally ill mother should be one of worry imo. The fact that he lashed out at her instead was a little mean and selfish to say the least... I know that he's still young, but even kid's don't lash out at their own mothers (especially one that's terminally ill) unless they have a good reason to. It was a difficult situation for him no doubt, but i still don't understant why he had to push her away like that =/

blewin
2011-04-30, 00:17
new revelations in episode 3: Popo and Yukiatsu both saw Menma, but it's clearly NOT the Menma that's hanging around Jinta. I'm guessing Menma is a manifestation of each character's sentiment towards her, and hence we get different Menma. Wonder if Anjou and the other girl will later on see Menma too.

again, really like the subtle flashbacks slid in between present moments. Why was Jinta's mother in hospital?

EroKing
2011-04-30, 00:19
@brocko: different people react differently to similar situations.

Sackett
2011-04-30, 00:27
First reactions for your own terminally ill mother should be one of worry imo. The fact that he lashed out at her instead was a little mean and selfish to say the least... I know that he's still young, but even kid's don't lash out at their own mothers (especially one that's terminally ill) unless they have a good reason to. It was a difficult situation for him no doubt, but i still don't understant why he had to push her away like that =/

Plenty of young children respond to serious illness of a parent by blaming the parent.

In their world mother and father are god-like beings who can do anything- then they suddenly "choose" to become sick. It scary, and the child expresses his fear the same way he would if mom was yelling at him.

I've seen quite a few children respond just like Jinta in real life.

Pellissier
2011-04-30, 00:35
http://i.imgur.com/MzhNQ.jpg
Mind if I snag this one then?
Sure, go ahead. Did you want your name in it? If so, here:

160 px height

http://i.imgur.com/8EAb0.jpg

and also a 120 px tall version, if you wish to combine it with two lines of text.

http://i.imgur.com/XCPfK.jpg

physics223
2011-04-30, 00:59
Honestly, I don't - and it seems like 28 pages of posts on 3 episodes agrees with the idea that there's plenty to discuss. For me, there's not much that's more interesting to discuss in the context of anime that emotion. Let's put it this way - this series has more posts and pageviews than C, and in my view, these two series make a pretty good model for the cerebral (C) vs. the heartfelt (AnoHana).

First, I intend no offense whatsoever, but most of those posts seem to be re-tellings and reiterations of essentially the same things. I don't really think of that as discussion, but people's mileage may vary. Not many people 'discussed' Tatami Galaxy but because of the quality of the posts (different people exploring and examining different aspects of the series, for example), there was little repetition and there was a lot more discussion, at least for me.

A recapitulation of the last few pages, for example, will present

disgust on Yukiatsu's actions or the insinuations as regards his character
Jinta's emotions toward his mother and his debility due to the catastrophes in life
a bit on Tsuruko and her personality


That's all right with me, but the depth of this series is found in its characters, not in its intellectual piquancy. There's really little discussion as to what happened per se, because it's not the focus. There's a lot to talk about, however, regarding the emotions and feelings of the characters.

I hope you guys get what I mean.

Tu101uk
2011-04-30, 01:39
In regards to Jinta's mum, I believe she died after Menma? In the first episode, we're shown that he ran into his dad, who said "I'm just popping out to see your mother...", after his bustup with Menma. I assume he meant he was going to see her at the hospital (though it could mean he was gonna go and visit her grave).

If so, it's perfectly understandable that he acted that way towards his mother, having experienced the death of a loved one already. In fact, it doesn't matter who died first, as the death of one would only have been compounded by the death of the other, and either way Jinta would have receded even further into trauma and depression.

First, I intend no offense whatsoever, but most of those posts seem to be re-tellings and reiterations of essentially the same things. I don't really think of that as discussion, but people's mileage may vary. Not many people 'discussed' Tatami Galaxy but because of the quality of the posts (different people exploring and examining different aspects of the series, for example), there was little repetition and there was a lot more discussion, at least for me.

A recapitulation of the last few pages, for example, will present

disgust on Yukiatsu's actions or the insinuations as regards his character
Jinta's emotions toward his mother and his debility due to the catastrophes in life
a bit on Tsuruko and her personality


That's all right with me, but the depth of this series is found in its characters, not in its intellectual piquancy. There's really little discussion as to what happened per se, because it's not the focus. There's a lot to talk about, however, regarding the emotions and feelings of the characters.

I hope you guys get what I mean.
Yeah, that's understandable. It's mainly been a lot of people agreeing with each other and coming up with similar conclusions. That's not really a bad thing, everyone being on a similar level of understanding... :3 Though methinks we're getting a bit of repetition because some of us (me included) haven't been able to express clearly what we really want to say about the series and its emotion-provoking characters...

O-O~

Guardian Enzo
2011-04-30, 02:07
First, I intend no offense whatsoever, but most of those posts seem to be re-tellings and reiterations of essentially the same things. I don't really think of that as discussion, but people's mileage may vary. Not many people 'discussed' Tatami Galaxy but because of the quality of the posts (different people exploring and examining different aspects of the series, for example), there was little repetition and there was a lot more discussion, at least for me.



I certainly don't take any offense, no worries. But I do qualitatively disagree with the point you're making - which seems to be that discussions of character behavior, motivation and emotional trauma are somehow less valid than those that analyze the technical aspects of a series. If you were correct, the 4000 or so posts on "Cross Game" certainly wouldn't meet your high standards.

Tatami Galaxy is an interesting example, because I think it's quite analogous to C and AnoHana is quite analogous to House of Five Leaves, which were the NoitaminA shows that season. Of the two I found the discussions on HoFL much more interesting because they were dealing with the subtle, somewhat subjective behaviors and emotional states of the characters, while the TG discussions were more focused on all the clever tricks the series was playing. Different strokes, as you say, for different folks.

I don't see the discussions here as repetitive at all. Where human behavior is concerned, there's a lot of room for interpretation and people are expressing differing views on the events they're seeing on screen. I certainly realize that not everyone is going to find that interesting.

brocko
2011-04-30, 02:53
@brocko: different people react differently to similar situations.
Plenty of young children respond to serious illness of a parent by blaming the parent.

In their world mother and father are god-like beings who can do anything- then they suddenly "choose" to become sick. It scary, and the child expresses his fear the same way he would if mom was yelling at him.

I've seen quite a few children respond just like Jinta in real life.
I think what irked me off so much was that it was a really immature yet rather hurtful thing to do even if it does fit into the given context. :(

Soconfused
2011-04-30, 03:23
I think what irked me off so much was that it was a really immature yet rather hurtful thing to do even if it does fit into the given context. :(

Of course it was immature, he was what, 8, 10? I'm pretty sure he wasn't thinking how his actions would effect his mother. I've visited sick relatives at hospitals when I was young, it's not exactly a place a young boy/girl wants to be, regardless of who you're visiting.

That aside, I am getting pissed at older Jinta. Dude needs to get it together and stop being such a, ahh, for lack of better term, giant vagina. Tsuruko is also being pretty annoying. Overall, it was an episode that left me feeling very annoyed. Watching all these schooled based anime makes me realize how annoying teens can be. Guess it wasn't too long ago that I too was an annoying prick....*smokes a pipe*

Anyways, next episode should be interesting, would be awesome if their little summoning works and they can all see Menma, though I think I like the "everyone sees her differently" approach more.

stormy001_M1A2
2011-04-30, 03:45
I think the situation is a bit too much for a kid to handle. I don't blame his reactions towards his mother, to be honest.

Haak
2011-04-30, 03:59
Yeah I can't believe Yukiatsu said that at the end. It really made me raeg hard...

UltimaWolf
2011-04-30, 04:31
http://i.imgur.com/mpHZt.gif

Awesome work on the Avies as always. Thanks!

~Destiny~
2011-04-30, 04:42
Does anyone else feel like what Yukiatsu said at the end was sarcasm?

Haak
2011-04-30, 04:43
Does anyone else feel like what Yukiatsu said at the end was sarcasm?

I don't think it was sarcasm. It struck me as petty competitiveness.

guuchan
2011-04-30, 05:33
Just picked up this show, and I have to say I love it. Love the idea, and execution is nice too. I happen to have a close friend among a group of friends who also passed away, even though the situation is a bit different. It happened after he grew up. And he died by committing suicide. I hope it's not the case for Menma, which I believe shouldn't be.

I don't think it was sarcasm. It struck me as petty competitiveness.

Yep. And you know, what he said led me to lean towards that it's Tsuruko who dressed up as Menma's ghost. Tsuruko did it to satisfy his desire and lead him to believe that Menma did come back as a ghost. That's why she's so sure that he would come.

Daniel E.
2011-04-30, 05:34
I think what irked me off so much was that it was a really immature yet rather hurtful thing to do even if it does fit into the given context. :(

From time to time, parents do not know how to explain certain things (problems) to their children, and what they do instead, is to try and hide the whole thing. They believe things will go better down the road, which will then make everything easier to explain.

Problem starts when the kids not only realize the issue, but also realize that their parents are lying to them. At this point, it is extremely easy for the the kids to become angry at their parents for not trusting them.

Of course, this is just me trying to understand this scene, and it could all be way off in the end. :p

EDIT:

This could also be it, me thinks...

In regards to Jinta's mum, I believe she died after Menma? In the first episode, we're shown that he ran into his dad, who said "I'm just popping out to see your mother...", after his bustup with Menma. I assume he meant he was going to see her at the hospital (though it could mean he was gonna go and visit her grave).

If so, it's perfectly understandable that he acted that way towards his mother, having experienced the death of a loved one already. In fact, it doesn't matter who died first, as the death of one would only have been compounded by the death of the other, and either way Jinta would have receded even further into trauma and depression.

pagan poor
2011-04-30, 08:13
Loved the continuing development of the characters. A lil disappointed that Jinta didn't make it to school. Poppo getting the band back together is great. Of course, there will be a lil adjustment phase to all of them being back in one room again after all this time since Menma's death. Yukiatsu saying he saw Menma.. not 100% sure what to make of that, other than I'm partially believing it's him cross dressing as Menma in the first part.

I just wish now that Poppo could take Anaru's gal pals on a "jungle cruise"...

DragoZERO
2011-04-30, 09:35
Pretty sure she was just trying to hide the IV...She could have just pulled her sleeve down. Common sense checkers... it should be a professional job.

Way, way harsh. Jinta is supposed to be what, 8 or so there? That's incredibly difficult, seeing your mother in a sickbed like that - I don't think his reaction was surprising at all.I think it was too. Hospitals aren't places that incite anger, especially in children. I can understand if she is sick in at home, but not in a hospital. And I bet his father didn't scold him at all either.

MeoTwister5
2011-04-30, 09:52
The third episode leads me to believe that maybe the show isn't entirely based solely on the premise of Jinta getting everyone together again for the finale. Considering the relative ease that most of them got together for this episode, it's seems more likely that simple broken bonds aren't the focus of the show, and neither is it Menma's wish. The third episode in fact seems to delve more deeply into each individual with Jinta as the starting point, but it's clear as day that each character has their own demons to deal with regarding Menma.

In a way it becomes something like an individualized study on how each person deals with the issue of death, and the aftereffects of such an event. From that, it seems to me that Menma's wish isn't simply getting her friends to reconnect, but finding a way to heal the wounds that have refused to close all these years.

Hmmm... Tomorrow's labor day so I should be able to expound on this.

kitten320
2011-04-30, 11:26
Ok, Menma being able to cook is probably slightly too much for a ghost but whatever...

Description sure doesn't sound believable so far because it is thanks to Poppo that everyone are actually talking to each other.

And I seriously doubt that what everyone saw was Menma's ghost, probably someone dressing up for whatever reason.

Yukiatsu is being creepy as always, he probably buys all that stuff to add to his freaky Menma collection or to cross dress himself.

Soconfused
2011-04-30, 11:34
Ok, Menma being able to cook is probably slightly too much for a ghost but whatever...

Description sure doesn't sound believable so far because it is thanks to Poppo that everyone are actually talking to each other.

And I seriously doubt that what everyone saw was Menma's ghost, probably someone dressing up for whatever reason.

Yukiatsu is being creepy as always, he probably buys all that stuff to add to his freaky Menma collection or to cross dress himself.

Oh yeah, completely forgot about the whole cooking thing. You would think that Jinta would just have her grab some sticks or juggle some rocks, would be pretty hard to disprove that, but I guess that would be too easy huh. Or maybe Jinta's got a Tyler Durden thing going on and he made the muffins himself. :uhoh:

Kanon
2011-04-30, 11:56
Ok, Menma being able to cook is probably slightly too much for a ghost but whatever...

I'm far more puzzled by the fact she can apparently eat food. She's a very peculiar kind of ghost. I'm a little annoyed no one either notices her. IIRC, she ate in front of Poppo, but he was conveniently looking elsewhere. Even if they can't see her, she could easily make her presence known if she wanted to. I hope she will later on, if only to make clear to the others that she isn't Jinta's hallucination.

physics223
2011-04-30, 12:20
I ported this over from my blog. For pictures and a better formatting, go here (http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2011/05/ano-hana-03-dissecting-the-pertinent-questions/).

Because there are no interlocking plots or nuanced allusions to literary works, I have difficulty talking about the series itself. I don't think it's bad; on the contrary, it's been great so far. I'll try to talk about the series anyway, and the few curious points regarding the third episode.

The existence of Menma

This is one of the central questions of the series that will probably only be resolved much later on. For the time being, as I see it, there are three main probabilities regarding Menma's return.


Menma is a projective hallucination of Jinta's which symbolizes the things that he's missed over the years.
Menma truly appears differently to each and every Super Peace Buster.
Menma is a ghost.


Menma is a projective hallucination of Jinta's which symbolizes the things that he's missed over the years

I'm no psychologist, but I've read enough on and about psychology due to requirements in the university, and schizophrenics can very well have these powerful hallucinations that plague their lives and drive them to further madness. The thing with these hallucinations of heavily deluded people, as far as I can remember, is that they are truly vivid and iridescent, seemingly simulating reality. This blur is one of the triggers to further madness.

The thing I find with Jinta and his actions do not present any signs of obvious mental disorder. He is reclusive perhaps due to his past, but is in no way mentally debilitated. As a hikikomori, his personality reflects part of schizoid personality disorder, as well as part of avoidant personality disorder. Both disorders are deficiencies in the molding of personality, and hallucinations are quite unlikely with these disorders.

I have some knowledge regarding the schizoid personality disorder, since one of the psychology tests I've taken reflected my tendency to this disorder: I am quite introverted, and prefer solitary activities most of the time, although I can tolerate fitting in with parties or excursions, for example. I guess that's partly contributory to my solitude, but that's for another time and another write-up. I believe Jinta's more of the avoidant type, however, and the incidents in his past seem to reflect this. He desires to reach out to others, but was so hurt by the chain of traumatic catastrophes that occurred in his childhood that he was transmogrified into someone afraid of opening oneself and going out towards life.

He may suffer from this disorder, although I don't think it's severe as he could still manage to go out of his house with Menma's prodding. Severe hikikomoris do not go out of their own rooms, and practically, like Watashi in the Tatami Galaxy, live their lives in total solitude. As he could still be convinced to go out and still has the ability to attach himself emotionally to Anjou and Poppo, I feel quite positively as regards his recovery. I think it's more about moving on for him than really having a true disorder.

Menma truly appears differently to each and every Super Peace Buster.

This is highly dubitable, as I believe (and this concurs with the animation) that only Jin sees Menma. The one who walked the forest near their meeting place was clearly human. That utterance of Yukiatsu seemed to be more of envy than of anything substantial.

Menma is a ghost

I shouldn't believe in ghosts. I'm going to be a doctor soon and spirits should just pale in comparison to the scalpel of science.

But I do, and that's because I've personally experienced something physically possible, but very improbable in its coincidence: our electric fan had a light that had burnt out for years. No matter how much I tried to turn it on, it never did. One day, however, without any of my family touching it, it just buzzed on. And it was on only for that day, when a grandfather in my mother's side died. It may be explained by circuitry that worked only on that day, but I'd like to believe there was something more.

It is also frankly the simplest explanation. Rather than creating a disorder for Jinta, it seems improbable for a schizophrenic hallucination to bake some cake and walk around like an airhead. Hallucinations are often violent auditory disturbances for schizophrenics, not some cute, peaceful girls exhorting nice guys to live their lives once again. But there may be instances of those, so I can't truly say for certain.

Going by Occam's razor, however, this seems to be very suitable. It's only the reason why she came back that remains to be the questions if we go by this thinking, and I frankly don't think this series is of the cerebral caliber of David Mamet's <em>House of Games</em> or Christopher Nolan's <em>Inception</em>. Were it perhaps by Masaaki Yuasa or Satoshi Kon, I would have strongly doubted the sanity that Jinta seems to present, but because this anime seems to deal with emotions rather than dissimulation or illusion I think it's safe to say that this is the most plausible option. (I highly recommend both films, by the way.)

* * *

The crossdresser

So who was the crossdresser? We again have three viable options, but the answers I feel don't seem to be as clear as the former question.

We have:


Tsuruko
Yukiatsu
Menma's ghost


The ghost Menma doesn't wear a watch, so it has got to be between Tsuruko and Yukiatsu. Tsuruko may have held a light for Yukiatsu, and it may be her quirky way of luring him back to reality as a friend, or as a desiring, unrequited lover. Worse, it may be Yukiatsu, who remains to be faithful to Menma to the present time, and was twisted and turned inside by her death. He was shopping for girl's accessories, and has a dress of her in his home. He may never have gotten over her. I think it's Yukiatsu, but we'll probably know on as the series progresses.

P.S. I love the OP and the ED.

Haak
2011-04-30, 12:28
^ I can't get enough of the ending theme. It's so brilliant.

I'm far more puzzled by the fact she can apparently eat food. She's a very peculiar kind of ghost. I'm a little annoyed no one either notices her. IIRC, she ate in front of Poppo, but he was conveniently looking elsewhere. Even if they can't see her, she could easily make her presence known if she wanted to. I hope she will later on, if only to make clear to the others that she isn't Jinta's hallucination.

The funny thing is that when Naruko and Chiriko were fighting, Menma was pulling them away but to no avail. It's definitely odd that's she's able to interact with the physical world to such an inconsistent degree. I too hope they clear this up.

Proto
2011-04-30, 12:33
But I do, and that's because I've personally experienced something physically possible, but very improbable in its coincidence: our electric fan had a light that had burnt out for years. No matter how much I tried to turn it on, it never did. One day, however, without any of my family touching it, it just buzzed on. And it was on only for that day, when a grandfather in my mother's side died. It may be explained by circuitry that worked only on that day, but I'd like to believe there was something more.

It is also frankly the simplest explanation. Rather than creating a disorder for Jinta, it seems improbable for a schizophrenic hallucination to bake some cake and walk around like an airhead. Hallucinations are often violent auditory disturbances for schizophrenics, not some cute, peaceful girls exhorting nice guys to live their lives once again. But there may be instances of those, so I can't truly say for certain.

Ok where do we start....

For your first point: Use your own logic to your suddendly working fan. For example, we could use statistics. How many people around the world die everyday. How many of those people have relatives which possess a non working appliance in their room. Statistically speaking, the odds you described aren't too bad. Yes, they are low, but there is a reason they are not zero.

For your second point: Occam's razor is nice and all, but trying to apply it to works of literature is kind of iffy at best, given that this is a created world. It doesn't have to follow any real world convention, really. True, we can expect the author not to try curveballs at us, but that's a completely different thing.

Haak
2011-04-30, 12:36
Believing in the supernatural as the answer isn't an actual application of Ockam's Razor, since the existence of the supernatural would raise further questions. Just wanted to point that out.

Triple_R
2011-04-30, 12:45
The third episode leads me to believe that maybe the show isn't entirely based solely on the premise of Jinta getting everyone together again for the finale. Considering the relative ease that most of them got together for this episode, it's seems more likely that simple broken bonds aren't the focus of the show, and neither is it Menma's wish. The third episode in fact seems to delve more deeply into each individual with Jinta as the starting point, but it's clear as day that each character has their own demons to deal with regarding Menma.

In a way it becomes something like an individualized study on how each person deals with the issue of death, and the aftereffects of such an event. From that, it seems to me that Menma's wish isn't simply getting her friends to reconnect, but finding a way to heal the wounds that have refused to close all these years.

Hmmm... Tomorrow's labor day so I should be able to expound on this.

I'm inclined to agree.

My initial thought after Episode 1 was that Menma's wish was simply to get the old gang back together. However, this has technically already been achieved with how Episode 3 ended.

As such, I think that Menma's wish is probably something different, and possibly more complex, than simply getting the old gang back together.


I also want to say that I feel that Episode 3 was the ideal follow-up to the first two episodes. As I wrote earlier on the thread, the first two episodes were just very solid, heartwarming, slice of life drama. A great narrative foundation to build on.

As such, I felt that the best way for Episode 3 to play out would be for it to perk things up just a little bit, and to be a little bit surprising, to make sure that the viewer didn't get too comfortable.

And having Poppo see "Menma", having Jinta attempt (but fail) to go back to school, and having the gang all get back together for a "Find Menma!" BBQ party was a great way to achieve this I think.


Now there's more to work off of when it comes to speculation and debate, particularly as it pertains to what exactly Menma's wish might be, as well as how exactly these characters feel about one another.

Episode 3 gives us a lot of characterization meat to dig into, and that's great to see. :)

physics223
2011-04-30, 12:59
Ok where do we start....

For your first point: Use your own logic to your suddendly working fan. For example, we could use statistics. How many people around the world die everyday. How many of those people have relatives which possess a non working appliance in their room. Statistically speaking, the odds you described aren't too bad. Yes, they are low, but there is a reason they are not zero.

For your second point: Occam's razor is nice and all, but trying to apply it to works of literature is kind of iffy at best, given that this is a created world. It doesn't have to follow any real world convention, really. True, we can expect the author not to try curveballs at us, but that's a completely different thing.

I would take that most infinitesimal possibility and say that there's something else going on. It's not only low; it flirts with zero. I'd say not too bad is an understatement.

Believing in the supernatural as the answer isn't an actual application of Ockam's Razor, since the existence of the supernatural would raise further questions. Just wanted to point that out.

From my interpretation of Occam's razor, it's the simplest explanation to fit the phenomena that the series presents because for me it merely assumes that there is an other world, but little else.

The incongruence with which Jinta's symptoms are with schizophrenia, and the fact that the 'hallucination' actually makes food disappear forces us to assume more than merely believing Menma's a ghost - and it will force us to assume to possibility of an other world as well, eventually.

Flower
2011-04-30, 13:01
Must admit that I really like the OP and the EP of the series. :)

guuchan
2011-04-30, 13:09
The ghost Menma doesn't wear a watch, so it has got to be between Tsuruko and Yukiatsu. Tsuruko may have held a light for Yukiatsu, and it may be her quirky way of luring him back to reality as a friend, or as a desiring, unrequited lover. Worse, it may be Yukiatsu, who remains to be faithful to Menma to the present time, and was twisted and turned inside by her death. He was shopping for girl's accessories, and has a dress of her in his home. He may never have gotten over her. I think it's Yukiatsu, but we'll probably know on as the series progresses.

P.S. I love the OP and the ED.

I think I'm one of the very few here who lean heavily towards the speculation that it's Tsuruko. :heh:

As for the ED, it's nice, but somehow the full version is a little disappointing. Something is missing there. I'm not completely sure what it is, but it's probably passion, or a lighter word, emotion, seeing this song is a lighthearted one. Yes, I mean the singers. How to describe it... it's as if they haven't read the whole script yet, or the ending of the story really sucks (I surely hope not), otherwise the way they sing it is just a bit too flat. Or maybe it's just simply the chemistry of the combination isn't working.

I'm inclined to agree.

My initial thought after Episode 1 was that Menma's wish was simply to get the old gang back together. However, this has technically already been achieved with how Episode 3 ended.

As such, I think that Menma's wish is probably something different, and possibly more complex, than simply getting the old gang back together.

Actually that can't be the wish to begin with. She had that wish before she died, and at that time the friends were close together alright, so it couldn't be the wish.

CWW
2011-04-30, 13:47
The full ED has a bit too many random synths for my liking. Would have been better with a minimalistic acoustic/piano approach. Nothing wrong with the vocals in my opinion.

As for Menma physically interacting with the world, I think its purpose is to make her more endearing as a character to us viewers, even though it makes little sense in context. Without such a plot hole, she'd be more or less a character unable to interact with Jinta beyond verbal communication. Have you guys seen Ghost the movie? That stuff is beyond sad. Also, I believe I've been told that the series is only running 11 episodes. In that case, any way to enhance the character development is okay in my book.

Just don't try to science it up. ;p

Shakiga
2011-04-30, 13:53
I think I'm one of the very few here who lean heavily towards the speculation that it's Tsuruko. :heh:

As for the ED, it's nice, but somehow the full version is a little disappointing. Something is missing there. I'm not completely sure what it is, but it's probably passion, or a lighter word, emotion, seeing this song is a lighthearted one. Yes, I mean the singers. How to describe it... it's as if they haven't read the whole script yet, or the ending of the story really sucks (I surely hope not), otherwise the way they sing it is just a bit too flat. Or maybe it's just simply the chemistry of the combination isn't working.



Actually that can't be the wish to begin with. She had that wish before she died, and at that time the friends were close together alright, so it couldn't be the wish.

About Menma's wish, I think it may related to the series title. That would be surprisingly simple, though ^^. Also, her action in the last 2 episodes may just be her attempts to "fix" Jinta and doesn't really involve her wish in any way.

As for the ED song, it seems it is a cover for an original song dated back a few years ago so the emotion may not fit together well enough. Although I enjoyed the song a lot, it went straight into my favorites the first time I heard it.

EDIT: just surfed through youtube for the original one, glad someone had posted it recently so enjoy ^^

edit by mod: link removed

TurkeyPotPie
2011-04-30, 17:02
Another excellent episode. My favorite scene was the flashback to Jinta visiting his mother in the hospital. The regret he feels for slapping her hand away -- wow. Very powerful. Really hit home for me, when my father died after a long illness, I had regrets over things I had done or said (or not said) for years afterward. And that happened when I was an adult, so the impact on a small child would be huge. It's the touches like this that make me love the show.

Yukiatsu cross-dressing as Menma -- man, I hope this show doesn't go there. I suspect it's someone other than Yukiatsu doing it.

The "Bentora, bentora, space people" call that Poppo was doing: does anyone know the origin of that? Is that a shout out to Urusei Yatsura, or is that from something even earlier?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/ottoautopilot/lum-urusei-yatsura-manga-space-people.jpg

One last question: high school is not compulsory in Japan, right? So Poppo just started working after finishing school?

guuchan
2011-04-30, 17:32
About Menma's wish, I think it may related to the series title. That would be surprisingly simple, though ^^. Also, her action in the last 2 episodes may just be her attempts to "fix" Jinta and doesn't really involve her wish in any way.

That's possible, even though that wouldn't require everyone to be involved to figure out. It would be bleh if her wish was to have everyone to know the name. Agreed on her action in the past episodes.

As for the ED song, it seems it is a cover for an original song dated back a few years ago so the emotion may not fit together well enough. Although I enjoyed the song a lot, it went straight into my favorites the first time I heard it.

EDIT: just surfed through youtube for the original one, glad someone had posted it recently so enjoy ^^

edit by mod: link removed

Thanks for sharing. :) The original one is much better.

One last question: high school is not compulsory in Japan, right? So Poppo just started working after finishing school?

Yep, it's only till junior high.

wandering-dreamer
2011-04-30, 17:45
Something else I was thinking about, so far a lot of the characters have accused Anaru of just following everyone else and not really doing anything on her own. However, she brought fireworks to the party since (and she was the one who said it) that she didn't want to copy everyone else, I thought that was pretty telling. Also, I wonder if Yukiatsu mentioned seeing Menma (regardless of whether or not he was lying, telling the truth, crossdressing, someone else was dressing up as Menma or whatever other crazy theories I missed) to try and one up Jintan. Right now Yukiatsu is being portrayed as everything Jintan isn't, he got into the best high school (which Jintan wanted to do), he still has friends and he was the one who brought everything needed for a bbq, again unlike Jintan. Hope one of the future episodes focuses on him since he's an interesting characters (at the very least) right now.

Tu101uk
2011-04-30, 19:00
Also, I wonder if Yukiatsu mentioned seeing Menma (regardless of whether or not he was lying, telling the truth, crossdressing, someone else was dressing up as Menma or whatever other crazy theories I missed) to try and one up Jintan. Right now Yukiatsu is being portrayed as everything Jintan isn't, he got into the best high school (which Jintan wanted to do), he still has friends and he was the one who brought everything needed for a bbq, again unlike Jintan. Hope one of the future episodes focuses on him since he's an interesting characters (at the very least) right now.
This is the main reason why I felt he was pitiful in this episode (as I described earlier in the thread) - he still felt the need to one-up a former rival (who, at this moment in time, probably doesn't see Yukiatsu the same way) and rub it in a bit. That smug-looking smile and condescending proclaimation wasn't a nice way to treat an old friend, especially with what they've all been through...

And I think everyone will get their one or two episodes in the spotlight, as they not only need to realise that they've got issues to sort out, but they have to resolve them too before the end of the series...

O-O~

lahfielxi
2011-04-30, 19:27
menma certainly exists, and jintan is the only one that sees her. anaru was by herself (technically) cutting weiners into crab shapes and jintan clearly reacted to menma's ghost talking about it. he just kind of ignored it though even though it's a clear indication menma is her own entity and not part a hallucination.

abscissa
2011-04-30, 20:29
As for Menma physically interacting with the world, I think its purpose is to make her more endearing as a character to us viewers, even though it makes little sense in context. Without such a plot hole, she'd be more or less a character unable to interact with Jinta beyond verbal communication. Have you guys seen Ghost the movie? That stuff is beyond sad. Also, I believe I've been told that the series is only running 11 episodes. In that case, any way to enhance the character development is okay in my book.

Just don't try to science it up. ;p

Agreed. In addition, you can apply science with Menma as a ghost. There are some theories that hypothesizes that indeed ghost exist and one of them is Ghost as Energy Theory. Also, I believe that if that if somebody is doing the doubting, then that doubting exists. Cogito ergo sum

guuchan
2011-04-30, 20:32
@Shakiga: I just got hold of ZONE's first album which has the longer version of "secret base -Kimi ga Kureta Mono-", and also a piano solo version of it. I will be sharing it somewhere in return. ;)

Blue-kun
2011-04-30, 21:11
I'm not sure I want to believe into these theories of crossdressing either. In a way, of course I've been finding Menma's 'ghost' weird ever since the show started, but I'd rather have some sort of ghost explanation for whatever Poppo saw than... people crossdressing as Menma for whatever reason. Because if that's actually the case, they'd have to come up with a mighty fine reason for it, not to mention the perfect execution to make a scene so outrageous like that work properly.

On to the actual episode, that was pretty entertaining. There wasn't any moment as cool as Nokemon for me, but overall the development for each character was pretty significant. Most of them don't have a lot of screentime, but the writers here have been making good use of each one's individual time to shine. Every piece of dialogue, be it Anaru's argument with Jinta/other friends at school or the mum flashback, is quite straightforward and does't beat around the bush, so it helps ease out that feeling which a lot of shows seem to ride on nowadays, that insists on the same thing over and over, trying to make you feel like "hey, this is a moment where you should feel this for character x". In other words, I guess I can actually relate to these characters and (most) of their actions, they feel... natural.

Last, I gotta agree, the ED is pretty cool and usually kicks in really well into the actual episodes. I just wish they used the original ZONE one instead of the seiyuu singing, but heh, 10 years after ver. is also pretty good! :heh:

Sebasu
2011-04-30, 21:23
http://i54.tinypic.com/15gfgpc.gif
^ This part of the ED seriously gives me chills every time. Incredible.

Mr.Garfield
2011-04-30, 21:37
About the ED, I agree that the full version is a bit disappointed, it just doesn't have the emotional power of the original
for anyone interested, here's a video on ZONE final live

edit by mod: link removed

Excorsism
2011-05-01, 00:18
I love stories that revolve around growing up. This being one of them. Can't help but reflect on my life every time I see a group of friends, once best friends, grow apart as they grow older but they end up resolving their differences and becoming close friends again.

Seems like Yukiatsu definitely wants to one up Jinta though. Evident from the end of episode 3 and that flashback with the beetle catch. I can't help but think of Ko and Azuma from Cross Game whenever they interact though (same voice actors after all!).

Here's hoping the ED gets released soon!

totoum
2011-05-01, 00:26
I'm not sure I want to believe into these theories of crossdressing either.

I was sceptical at first but since seeing the screenshot where we see that the Menma Poppo saw wears a watch when the "real" Menma doesn't,I can't deny that's pretty stong evidence.

brocko
2011-05-01, 00:26
ED is already out! :D

kyouray
2011-05-01, 01:08
I think it was too. Hospitals aren't places that incite anger, especially in children. I can understand if she is sick in at home, but not in a hospital. And I bet his father didn't scold him at all either.
Jinta's dad is too lax with him and it's still true now. His dad should scold him for not going to school or at least discuss with him even if it isn't easy.
I think I'm one of the very few here who lean heavily towards the speculation that it's Tsuruko. :heh:
I still believe it's Tsuruko :D
Evidences for Yukiatsu are too obvious and I think Tsuroko as fake Menma is more logical.

applejuice
2011-05-01, 01:28
http://i54.tinypic.com/15gfgpc.gif
^ This part of the ED seriously gives me chills every time. Incredible.

I agree. Nagai is known for his amazing OP and ED direction, which was also apparent in Toradora. He can make them beautiful and fitting just with direction and animation, even if the song is unfitting or bad.

totoum
2011-05-01, 01:40
I still believe it's Tsuruko :D
Evidences for Yukiatsu are too obvious

Deny the obvious,uphold the inane! (couldn't resist)


So what is Yukiatsu doing with the clothes he buys?

But I could see it,Tsuruko has a thing for Yukiatsu but Yukiatsu was in love with Menma,so she might want to become Menma to please him.


Maybe I wouldn't be saying this if I hadn't rewatched Vertigo recently :heh:

DragoonKain3
2011-05-01, 02:38
The full ED has a bit too many random synths for my liking. Would have been better with a minimalistic acoustic/piano approach. Nothing wrong with the vocals in my opinion.

edit by mod: link removed

Much prefer this version myself, for the same reasons you stated. Minimal acoustic, but more focus on the vocals. I personally like this version better than even Zone's, but only by a hair.


Here's hoping the ED gets released soon!

Was already released last wednesday I believe. Here's the full version of the TV ED.

edit by mod: link removed

Pellissier
2011-05-01, 03:30
A quick reminder, please don't post youtube (or niconico, or any other provider) videos containing FULL songs. Those are considered licensed material, and as such can't be posted in AnimeSuki (rule 1.1 (http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?faq=rules#faq_rules_1_1)). I also removed the link to the live video since most likely it was a DVD-rip.

Providing a link to a full video is more or less like posting an mp3, which is also severely forbidden.

Thanks for your understanding. :)

Shakiga
2011-05-01, 04:26
I agree. Nagai is known for his amazing OP and ED direction, which was also apparent in Toradora. He can make them beautiful and fitting just with direction and animation, even if the song is unfitting or bad.

Wait, the guys who did OP for Toradora was the same guys in this series? No wonder I felt it was somehow familiar. But I thought Toradora was from J.C Staff, not A.I.C?

@guuchan: I'm looking forward to it ^^

Pellissier
2011-05-01, 04:43
Wait, the guys who did OP for Toradora was the same guys in this series? No wonder I felt it was somehow familiar. But I thought Toradora was from J.C Staff, not A.I.C?
The team who worked on Toradora and Highschool of the Dead is in charge of this series. It can be seen on the characters resembling some of those series themselves. Like Anaru with pigtails is similar to Takagi (HoTD), while Jintan kinda reminds Homuro (HoTD). On the other hand, Yukiatsu's chardes resembles Ryuuji's (Toradora), while Menma's slim figure and body language reminds of Taiga (Toradora).
Note that I'm not talking of personality-wise resemblances, but only basing on the looks and movements - body animations in particular.

Masayoshi Tanaka (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=21266) directed both OP 1-2 and ED1 in Toradora, and he's indeed behind what we see in AnoHana. In that list he's credited for the OP, but I don't see reasons not to believe he also made the ED.

Sebasu
2011-05-01, 04:56
I'll add Yukiatsu can also fit in with the bishounen of Katekyo Hitman Reborn, which I believe shares the same character designer as well.

Young Jintan also looks like a little Takeshi Yamamoto. :D

Shakiga
2011-05-01, 05:31
The first time I saw Menma, she struck me as similar to Index from To aru Majutsu no Index. From the way she act to her face. These similarities were what made me troubled. Am I right to assume that in Japan animation industry, they can use staffs from another company to work for others?

On another note, it was interesting to see Tsuruko lit up a road of candles to "summon" Menma. Is this a tradition or just some kind of occult things?

brocko
2011-05-01, 05:48
A lot of the animation industry is free-lance work. So staff ain't really attached to just the one company per say. Sometimes you even have production studios outsourcing some of the animation work to other studios (J.C Staff outsourcing to A1 for example).

MeoTwister5
2011-05-01, 05:51
In another forum it was commented that the more everyday-ish approach of the story, especially the ones about the character's daily life events (such as Jinta's xenophobic life and Anaru's attempts to always go with the flow) detract from the overall tale of a wandering spirit in search of her wish and her friends, wanting the story to focus more on Menma's inability to move on than with the lives of those she left behind

I disagree with this assessment precisely because her stay on earth and the lives of her her friends are so deeply interconnected that you can only have one with the other. Episode 3 proves this well enough that Menma's spiritual existence there is completely dependent on the status of her friends, such that her wish is dependent on the goings-on within each of the 5 friends she had left behind so suddenly.

Malkuth
2011-05-01, 06:11
The team who worked on Toradora and Highschool of the Dead is in charge of this series. It can be seen on the characters resembling some of those series themselves. Like Anaru with pigtails is similar to Takagi (HoTD), while Jintan kinda reminds Homuro (HoTD). On the other hand, Yukiatsu's chardes resembles Ryuuji's (Toradora), while Menma's slim figure and body language reminds of Taiga (Toradora).
Note that I'm not talking of personality-wise resemblances, but only basing on the looks and movements - body animations in particular.

Masayoshi Tanaka (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=21266) directed both OP 1-2 and ED1 in Toradora, and he's indeed behind what we see in AnoHana. In that list he's credited for the OP, but I don't see reasons not to believe he also made the ED.

Influenced maybe... both INAZUMA's and YASU's drawing styles are quite unique.

Oh! and just in case someone is living in a cave, YASU did the original artwork in Toradora novel, while INAZUMA the HotD manga, and his various Takagi-looking characters are very distinctive in his other works ;)

Kikuchi
2011-05-01, 06:31
Evidences for Yukiatsu are too obvious and I think Tsuroko as fake Menma is more logical.

I think you're thinking too much about it, you're too invested in the series. From a casual standpoint, the hints aren't that obvious at all.

Tu101uk
2011-05-01, 07:16
In another forum it was commented that the more everyday-ish approach of the story, especially the ones about the character's daily life events (such as Jinta's xenophobic life and Anaru's attempts to always go with the flow) detract from the overall tale of a wandering spirit in search of her wish and her friends, wanting the story to focus more on Menma's inability to move on than with the lives of those she left behind

I disagree with this assessment precisely because her stay on earth and the lives of her her friends are so deeply interconnected that you can only have one with the other. Episode 3 proves this well enough that Menma's spiritual existence there is completely dependent on the status of her friends, such that her wish is dependent on the goings-on within each of the 5 friends she had left behind so suddenly.
I always thought the point of the story was the five remaining gang members coming to terms with their loss and moving on. The whole wish thing (and Menma in general), for me, was just a catalyst, a vehicle to move the story onwards...

Sure, we find out bits and pieces about her past and what her unfulfilled wish could be, but methinks that's only a smaller part of the bigger picture. Surely it was going to focus more on how a shut-in like Jintan, a lost soul like Anaru, a wandering soul like Poppo, a distant soul like Tsuruko and a troubled soul like Tsukiatsu would get past their problems. It's what coming-of-age stories are usually about - it's not the destination (in this case, Menma and her wish), but rather journey (the healing process for themselves and their broken bonds of friendship), no?

I've been likening this series to something like Stand By Me and other stories, only slightly different in that not only is it remembering the past, but it's also trying to resolve the present as well, which adds a nice dimension. Plus seeing the differences between the characters in their childhood and adolescence, as well as seeing their slow development as they get past their troubles, is pretty neat.

O-O~

kyouray
2011-05-01, 12:03
Deny the obvious,uphold the inane! (couldn't resist)
So what is Yukiatsu doing with the clothes he buys?
But I could see it,Tsuruko has a thing for Yukiatsu but Yukiatsu was in love with Menma,so she might want to become Menma to please him.
Maybe I wouldn't be saying this if I hadn't rewatched Vertigo recently :heh:
:D
I agree Yukiatsu buying these clothes is weird but it doesn't look clothes for crossdressing as Menma or I may underrate Yukiatsu...

I think you're thinking too much about it, you're too invested in the series. From a casual standpoint, the hints aren't that obvious at all.
You may be right. Whatever it isn't something we should focus too much I guess.

By the way for those interested into key animation drawings and concept art, I found a sample of these in the booklet sold in some stores (http://blog.livedoor.jp/sylphwatch/archives/4595815.html) with the ED.
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/921/anohananote.th.jpg (http://img839.imageshack.us/i/anohananote.jpg/)

omimon
2011-05-01, 14:53
Okay I'll just say this right now but that guy smelling the dress is really creeping me out.

broken270
2011-05-01, 21:52
Assuming that the Menma Poppo saw was a fake compared to the "real" Menma, exactly who is the one in her disguise? Jinta really does not want to go to school, despite the fact that Anaru wanted him to go. Menma comes out and attempts to persuade him to go to school. Although she said it could be her wish, it probably is not, seeing that her wish was about something in the past. Jinta walks to school and is desperately regretting leaving to go there, his driving force being Menma's words. Anaru just happens to catch him just in time before he makes up his mind in leaving. This quickly ends now that Anaru's friends come along and ruin everything. Jinta meets up with Poppo, and he tells him about Menma, which he finds pretty off. Menma is really some ghost to not only be able to affect the physical objects and tears. Imagine, a ghost cooking lunch for you. Meanwhile, Yukiatsu is buying girl accessories, possibly for "Menma."

The next day, Poppo comes in and informs Jinta about his grand search party for Menma. Menma automatically wishes to go there. Although looking for her ghost could be a more logical thing to wish for at that time, it probably is not it. It looks like Jinta's going for the sake of Manma again. Anaru just happens to bump into him before he tries to make another escape from this. Tsuruko is the fourth person coming into the party. I love how Tsuruko bought candles, Anaru brought fireworks, and Poppo made keel. Jinta brought the only barbecued item. I guess Anaru just really wanted to get some form of attention from Jinta, even if he was not always looking at her. As soon as Yukiatsu came in, things stared to be a little bit iffy, especially at the point when he immediately responded after Poopo's words. It sounds as if he wants to show off in saying that he can also see her. If both Poppo and Yukiatsu are saying the truth, will everyone see their view of Menma, and why does it have to be in different states of her? Something feels off; I cannot put my finger on it.

DragoonKain3
2011-05-01, 22:06
I'm actually of the opinion that Jintan is right all along, that the Menma he sees is a reflection of his subconscious. He subconsciously wants to play Nokemon? (for reasons other than playing the game in of itself, of course) Menma 'wishes' it to be so. He subconsciously is obligated to go to school? Menma tells him that might be her wish. Menma wants crab sausages? Jintan takes it first without a thought. And so on and so forth.

Of course I might be wrong, but for now this is the one I'll go with, since Jintan himself acknowledges it as such. One less thing I need to think about and just enjoy the emotion and atmosphere of the show. I mean, I really don't think the point of the show is to figure stuff like what Menma really is, right?

Not that anything is wrong to wonder such things. It's just I personally don't like to dwell on these small details as I really don't think it will be explained in great detail in the end, so I just go with the most simplest explanation. :heh:

Mr.Garfield
2011-05-01, 22:33
And he subconsciously wants to come visit Menma house, thus she went to her house without him.

FlareKnight
2011-05-01, 22:34
I'm actually of the opinion that Jintan is right all along, that the Menma he sees is a reflection of his subconscious. He subconsciously wants to play Nokemon? (for reasons other than playing the game in of itself, of course) Menma 'wishes' it to be so. He subconsciously is obligated to go to school? Menma tells him that might be her wish. Menma wants crab sausages? Jintan takes it first without a thought. And so on and so forth.

Of course I might be wrong, but for now this is the one I'll go with, since Jintan himself acknowledges it as such. One less thing I need to think about and just enjoy the emotion and atmosphere of the show. I mean, I really don't think the point of the show is to figure stuff like what Menma really is, right?

Not that anything is wrong to wonder such things. It's just I personally don't like to dwell on these small details as I really don't think it will be explained in great detail in the end, so I just go with the most simplest explanation. :heh:Do agree that sometimes getting tied up in trying to figure everything out isn't always fun. Though since that doesn't really explain everything I'm not sure if it's the simplest. The fact that Menma affects things that aren't near Jinta kind of hurts the theory. Isn't it far simpler to just say she's a ghost and accept that?

Tu101uk
2011-05-02, 02:12
The website version of the preview of the next episode is out... :3 Unlike last week's one, it's made up mostly of different scenes to the TV version.

http://www.anohana.jp/story/04.html

Hmm, looks like Anaru's gonna ask Jintan something awkward. Tsuruko's looking at her drawing of Menma. Menma's all upset for some reason. And Yukiatsu's acting jerkish as usual... :S

...also, Anaru in braided pigtails? ^.^O-O~

Khu
2011-05-02, 04:15
Why must the OP single be on the 15th of June and not sooner ;_;

DragoonKain3
2011-05-02, 09:32
Do agree that sometimes getting tied up in trying to figure everything out isn't always fun. Though since that doesn't really explain everything I'm not sure if it's the simplest. The fact that Menma affects things that aren't near Jinta kind of hurts the theory. Isn't it far simpler to just say she's a ghost and accept that?

Well, then you'd have to go in that whole train of thought as to why Menma decides to haunt Jintan NOW, like at least half a decade later after her death.

I find it easier to think that Menma visiting her house in episode 1 and crying was what happened to Jintan when he visited her house before (same thing with the muffin thing in episode 3 except it was Jintan himself who made the muffins), rather than try and wrack my brain into trying to speculate what Menma is, her purpose here, and why only now.

BetoJR
2011-05-02, 10:55
I think your way of thinking is less fun than simply accepting her as a ghost, DragoonKain3. But we'll have to wait and see, for the actual answers, won't we? :D

LunaYoshi
2011-05-02, 11:35
I don't quite get it but maybe the next coming episodes will explain what is what.

Why must the OP single be on the 15th of June and not sooner ;_;

Agree. Why must it be released on June 15, I want to listen to the full song already. :frustrated:

deadite
2011-05-02, 14:45
I've been rewatching ep 1 again and realized that Menma casts no shadow.

lahfielxi
2011-05-02, 19:51
Menma wants crab sausages? Jintan takes it first without a thought. And so on and so forth.


Menma didn't want crab sausages, she saw Anaru preparing them. Jintan wasn't in the room and Anaru wasn't talking loudly about the sausages. So unless Jintan developed super hearing Menma reacting to the sausages and Jintan clearly hearing Menma talking about them is why I'm pretty sure it's a ghost and not a hallucination.

If not that's a pretty huge hole in consistency.

Master Chibi
2011-05-02, 21:22
1. I like how natural everything seems to be. The setting, the characters, their interaction with one another, it all flows so peacefully and without the need to play to the audience. I feel like I'm right there just witnessing it as it happens.

2. I love the mystery surrounding Menma. It's an excellent aspect of the show that makes it unique. Just being able to contemplate what exactly she is, or her wish, or the nature of her 'existing' at this point is a great addition to the rest of the show.

3. Anaru with her hair down is really fucking hot.

Wakan Tanka
2011-05-03, 02:02
I've been rewatching ep 1 again and realized that Menma casts no shadow.

So, she is a ghost?

Guardian Enzo
2011-05-03, 02:14
The matter of the muffins somewhat contradicts the notion that she has no material form, shadow or no. Unless you choose door number two, Jinta made them himself - we know that he does take his turn cooking so he probably knows how.

Wakan Tanka
2011-05-03, 02:52
The matter of the muffins somewhat contradicts the notion that she has no material form, shadow or no. Unless you choose door number two, Jinta made them himself - we know that he does take his turn cooking so he probably knows how.

Not quite true, think about Shinigami. (I am not saying that she is a Shinigami :))

lahfielxi
2011-05-03, 11:07
It's pretty obvious she has a poltergeist type effect, such as knocking over her brother's glass. Moving physical objects. Saying their shoulders felt heavy when Menma was hanging on to them. Other times she seemingly has no effect, but it's probably dependent on her will.

Kokoru Asami
2011-05-03, 12:34
For now i will agree with the theory that this is all part of jintan's subconscious, and its reflected in to the image of menma.

spawnofthejudge
2011-05-03, 12:36
So... Jintan's a telekinetic? Subconsciously? That's a little too wild.

Haak
2011-05-03, 12:39
Well since we're seeing Jinta's hallucination we can't be sure if what we see is really true. What we see Menma do is possibly what Jinta does but we simply don't see that. So it may not be that if Jinta is hallucinating, reality is exactly what we see but without Menma.

Guardian Enzo
2011-05-03, 12:42
Sounds like a job for Shibuya Psychic Research...

spawnofthejudge
2011-05-03, 12:47
Well since we're seeing Jinta's hallucination we can't be sure if what we see is really true. What we see Menma do is possibly what Jinta does but we simply don't see that. So it may not be that if Jinta is hallucinating, reality is exactly what we see but without Menma.And when Menma's not with him and affects things he's not present for, much less can see or hear? No; no ignoring evidence.

lahfielxi
2011-05-03, 13:31
Well since we're seeing Jinta's hallucination we can't be sure if what we see is really true. What we see Menma do is possibly what Jinta does but we simply don't see that. So it may not be that if Jinta is hallucinating, reality is exactly what we see but without Menma.

For that to be true you have to accept

a) Jintan has super-hearing, psychic powers, or sometime in Anaru/Jintan's past they had crab sausages and his hallucination/subconscious just correctly predicted Anaru would make crab cut sausages. A coincidence, unlikely, but possible.

b) Jintan frequently imagines scenarios where Menma acts out scenes with her family and the basic "life" of a ghost while he's not around, and blacks out/becomes Menma to create muffins, or hallucinates the muffin scene entirely.

or a completely separate option:

c) Absolutely everything we've seen so far is just a hallucination. His interactions with people, Menma. Jintan is actually strapped down in a padded cell and under heavy medication.

I think it's much easier just to believe she's a ghost/poltergeist and may appear differently to each person.

User68604
2011-05-03, 13:46
just started this, and i love the premise of it...its emo and i love it

wandering-dreamer
2011-05-03, 15:04
Sounds like a job for Shibuya Psychic Research...

Heh, I was actually going to bring up their poltergeist case (not the best analogy to what's going on here but it was the best I could think of) and then I remembered that not everyone here has seen Ghost Hunt. XD But, for the moment anyway, I don't think it's going to matter exactly "what" Menma is, she's here to get people moving again, not to have them remain the same and question what she is.

Kokoru Asami
2011-05-03, 17:53
Protected mental image = hallucination

pseudonhym
2011-05-03, 21:03
God... I really liked Anaru in this episode, she really looks good in her white one piece, and not many people would admit their own weakness, great looks and attitude.

Lolz on menma, looking for her own ghost.... too bad she won't see anything in the mirror.

physics223
2011-05-03, 23:21
As I've mentioned here (http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2011/05/ano-hana-03-dissecting-the-pertinent-questions/), it's very difficult for Jinta to be sick with anything other than either avoidant personality disorder, or schizoid personality disorder. As he's more of a hikikomori than a loner (from what we see of the episodes), I'm leaning more towards an avoidant personality.

The thing with avoidant personality disorder is that they have full recognition of reality - they simply cannot face it, as they're affected by both their pasts and their low self-esteems. They want to reach out, but are avoidant in fear of being rejected. They do not have hallucinations - from what I've read, those are reserved to schizophrenics for the most part.

The hallucinations that schizophrenics have are primarily auditory, and not visual, at that. Schizophrenia is also a fucked up disease in the sense that reality and fiction are merely blurs for the most part, something which Jinta clearly does not possess.

It's a lot simpler to think of Menma as a ghost. Sure, we have to accept the possibility of a paranormal world, but I think that's the simplest explanation given the circumstances.

Haak
2011-05-04, 01:01
And when Menma's not with him and affects things he's not present for, much less can see or hear? No; no ignoring evidence.

Oi, I'm not ignoring any evidence (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3573683&postcount=229). I'm just saying, if it IS a hallucination then we can't say reality is simply what we see but without Menma, so the physcial interactions that she makes when Jinta is around and that can't be explained by coincidence don't neccessarily point to her being a ghost.

aohige
2011-05-04, 01:09
@Mema is Jinta's hallucinations theories

If hallucinations can cook snacks for me and is formed in a shape of a cute girl I can physically touch, GIVE ME ALL THE GODDAMNED LSD AND MAGIC SHROOMS IN THE WORLD, RIGHT NOW

I'd be tripping 24/7 with no downtime.

Riga92
2011-05-04, 01:23
^ :heh:

But yea, the fact that Menma can physically interact with objects kinda points her towards being a ghost rather than a hallucination. We have no means of proving that ghosts (if they exist) can interact with physical objects in real life...but seriously, she ate some food. I don't think a hallucination can eat food lol. Also, I don't think hallucinations can wander away from the person experiencing said hallucinations lol.

Solace
2011-05-04, 05:58
@Mema is Jinta's hallucinations theories

If hallucinations can cook snacks for me and is formed in a shape of a cute girl I can physically touch, GIVE ME ALL THE GODDAMNED LSD AND MAGIC SHROOMS IN THE WORLD, RIGHT NOW

I'd be tripping 24/7 with no downtime.

Epic post sir. :heh:

Westlo
2011-05-04, 06:25
Did we really need a subforum for AnoHana? I mean this is only 11 episodes and is an anime original story to boot. So there's no need to have forums so we can have threads full of spoilers complaining about a line used @ this point of the chapter was instead used 3 lines later! Or how this scene in the manga was re-imagined in the anime in a different way to how I thought it would be when I read the manga! People blatantly spoiling things etc...

Meh whatever I don't really mind and obviously whatever I say has no bearing on the situation, I just feel that some threads lose a little something once they move to subforums. All the discussion being packed into one place just gets spread so thin and it's not the same. Some series it's needed due to various reasons but I don't see why one was needed here.

Anyway it's cool AnoHana got a subforum.. because if any show deserved one from this season than this was it, but whether it made sense to make one is another thing entirely. But it's cool I can rock with this....

MeoTwister5
2011-05-04, 06:45
ohai subforum! At the very least there'll be more concentrated discussions on each thread, and maybe raise the profile of the show some.

applejuice
2011-05-04, 06:52
Meh whatever I don't really mind and obviously whatever I say has no bearing on the situation, I just feel that some threads lose a little something once they move to subforums. All the discussion being packed into one place just gets spread so thin and it's not the same. Some series it's needed due to various reasons but I don't see why one was needed here.

I feel the same, too. When it is one thread only, many discussions and information can be shared much easily sometimes. Though, subforum has its own merits - such as forcing people to watch this series even more sort of thing?... :eyespin:

brocko
2011-05-04, 07:30
Nobody post in the other threads! We need to keep the crew together in the one thread otherwise one of us will start being pestered by their summerbeast subconscious to get everyone back in here again :heh:

Westlo
2011-05-04, 07:52
Nobody post in the other threads! We need to keep the crew together in the one thread otherwise one of us will start being pestered by their summerbeast subconscious to get everyone back in here again :heh:

Yo, i better not catch you sniffing a months old printout of a page from this thread :frustrated:

brocko
2011-05-04, 08:30
Yo, i better not catch you sniffing a months old printout of a page from this thread :frustrated:
You ain't the only one who can talk the talk. I can play that game too buddy :p <---- closest thing i could find to a smug smile on here lol

Tu101uk
2011-05-04, 08:32
Holy git, AnoHana got its own subforum... o_O

O-O~

Malkuth
2011-05-04, 11:29
I agree that the subforum is a waste, and at best will scatter the discussion. Plus the thread has less than 1k posts, there are not many images to posts (requiring another thread), and the whole franchise will disappear after the show ends, unlike other huge threads where it's a bitch to find your way through them, leading to reposting, and worsening the problem.

BetoJR
2011-05-04, 11:41
Yeah, I didn't see a need for the sub-forum, myself. Alas, beggars can't be choosers...

pagan poor
2011-05-04, 13:17
Hands down my favorite show of the season... and I'm questioning why there's a subforum. I didn't think there was enough hits to warrant one.

User68604
2011-05-04, 13:25
+1 to subforum

too many different things going on in this thread

Guardian Enzo
2011-05-04, 14:47
Well now, when was the last time a NoitaminA show got a subforum, I wonder?

I'm as surprised as anyone, given the number of posts - but I won't complain. Sometimes a subforum generates new viewers for a series...

Dr. Casey
2011-05-04, 14:51
I'm always down for a show I like to get a subforum; I actually wouldn't mind for every anime period to get a subforum (In theory, anyway, I know it would be cluttered and unfeasible). Centralized character discussion threads alone make it worth it for me.

Reckoner
2011-05-04, 15:45
Great anime, but I question the subforum. There hasn't been that much conversation about the show as is...

Solace
2011-05-04, 15:54
There seems to be a popular consensus that massive amounts of posts = subforum. Not true. We give out subforums when the community impresses us with quality discussion and we feel the remaining episodes of the show will continue and possibly help improve this discussion. Of the current crop of candidates, AnoHana best fit that description. We know it is an 11 episode series, and we're perfectly fine with it being "forgotten" once the next season starts. That's the case for the vast majority of shows anyway.

It isn't like you're losing the general thread, you're just gaining more threads for when you want to discuss something specific. I'd hardly call that a waste. ;)

Tu101uk
2011-05-04, 16:19
There seems to be a popular consensus that massive amounts of posts = subforum. Not true. We give out subforums when the community impresses us with quality discussion and we feel the remaining episodes of the show will continue and possibly help improve this discussion. Of the current crop of candidates, AnoHana best fit that description. We know it is an 11 episode series, and we're perfectly fine with it being "forgotten" once the next season starts. That's the case for the vast majority of shows anyway.

It isn't like you're losing the general thread, you're just gaining more threads for when you want to discuss something specific. I'd hardly call that a waste. ;)
Oh don't worry, I'm sure many people do appreciate it. If anything, it'd probably be a waste NOT to use it, now that it's been granted. It's just a bit of a surprise, 'tis all...

...and as someone else mentioned, it means the series has a bit of recognition, and can gain even more now that it won't be lost in the sea of numerous threads for Spring's other anime series...

The character threads are actually a godsend - now all of the "Is Menma a ghost or not?", "Is Yukiatsu crossdressing or not?" and miscellaneous discussions can go in their respective threads... :3 Great for organisation without messing up just good ol' fashioned conversation, methinks...

O-O~

Kanon
2011-05-04, 16:31
It isn't like you're losing the general thread, you're just gaining more threads for when you want to discuss something specific. I'd hardly call that a waste. ;)

The problem is that it scatters discussions, and makes them harder to follow. That's why I've always disliked subforums. It's easier when everything is kept in one thread. I understand why incredibly popular or long running series need a subforum, since a single thread feels clogged after a while. In AnoHana's case, however, it wasn't needed at all. I'm afraid it'll be more of a disservice when it comes to this show.

Ah well, if it can help giving this series more attention on this forum and bring in more viewers as a result, it's good.

ahelo
2011-05-04, 20:53
Not that I'm complaining that this has a sub-forum (cus I love Anohana), but what about Hidan no Aria and Dog Days who have well over 1000 posts. Not that I like both of those but I feel sorry for their fans.

OceanBlue
2011-05-04, 21:59
Not that I'm complaining that this has a sub-forum (cus I love Anohana), but what about Hidan no Aria and Dog Days who have well over 1000 posts. Not that I like both of those but I feel sorry for their fans.

Nothing against Dog Days, but I don't think the discussion in its thread warrants a subforum.

There's potential for interesting discussion with Anohana. I hope it having a subforum leads to more in-depth discussion rather than abandoned threads and scattered discussion, since every character has something that can be discussed and every episode has interesting things to note.

.x.crii.x.
2011-05-04, 22:21
Personally I think its great that AnoHana has its own sub-forum. Sometimes I'd just get so lost while trying to read the thread. There would be too many conversations and theories going on at once.

Sageblink
2011-05-05, 07:53
I've just discovered the show yesterday.
It's great, but having a dead girl walking around and feeling nostalgic, it makes me so sad for her (for all the cast, actually).

Is it normal for me to nearly cry at least once on each episode ?

Malkuth
2011-05-05, 08:08
Isn't there a creature in asian folklore (jibakurei or something), that manifests physically as a dead person, but is driven by the regrets of the living concerning the said dead?

In between, if we are blessed with Jinta's schizophrenic point of view in the anime, he can very well cooked himself, but attributed to a delusional dead girl, as well as imagined how her visit home would have gone, etc. But I kind of doubt that this would be the case, not the kind of stuff for NoitaminA audience.

Sageblink
2011-05-05, 08:36
Isn't there a creature in asian folklore (jibakurei or something), that manifests physically as a dead person, but is driven by the regrets of the living concerning the said dead?

In between, if we are blessed with Jinta's schizophrenic point of view in the anime, he can very well cooked himself, but attributed to a delusional dead girl, as well as imagined how her visit home would have gone, etc. But I kind of doubt that this would be the case, not the kind of stuff for NoitaminA audience.

Well, having some kind of doppelganger playing the role of Menma would be a bit disappointing to me. The idea of her memento/spirit trying to get her friends back as a group is what moved me. The fact that one can still interacts with a dead person is both sad and wonderful.
It's like a second chance and I really empathize with this whole concept.

Forever
2011-05-05, 10:25
I agree this one does not need a sub-forum. Dog days deserve it more....

Flower
2011-05-05, 12:06
Hey - I am all in favor of it getting it's own sub forum! :)

relentlessflame
2011-05-05, 16:00
Guys, the discussion of whether this series deserved a sub-forum or not is off-topic. This is a thread to discuss the show itself and, for better or worse, the sub-forum is here now. If you'd really like to express your opinion about the Sub-Forum policy, you can send your feedback in the appropriate forum, but know that the staff carefully considers every sub-forum decision carefully and weighs the pros and cons based on the evidence and past experience. We recognize that not everyone will understand the justifications, but there's no point going on and on about it.

So anyway, future posts about "did this series deserve a sub-forum" will be deleted. Fair warning.

Mr.Garfield
2011-05-05, 22:03
Sorry for asking a dumb question, but if this show has a sub forum already, and there're threads for every new eps, every characters, music, avatar, sign...ect etc, pretty much every thing has it own topic, then what is this generic thread for?

relentlessflame
2011-05-05, 23:32
Sorry for asking a dumb question, but if this show has a sub forum already, and there're threads for every new eps, every characters, music, avatar, sign...ect etc, pretty much every thing has it own topic, then what is this generic thread for?Well, first of all, it's an archive of all the older posts, since they were not migrated to one of the other threads. But second, it's a catch-all for any topics that are about the show that don't fit into the other categories. I've often seen this sort of thread used to discuss a show's ratings, general perception metrics, commentary from staff, news posted on official sites, and so on. Of course, now that we have more specific threads, I wouldn't expect this thread to get as much traffic as it used to.

GreyFlcn
2011-05-07, 14:22
Menma is suffering

Episode 5 stuff:
JOxju8-pcqU

Archon_Wing
2011-05-09, 00:19
Menma is suffering

Episode 5 stuff:
JOxju8-pcqU


Mahou Shoujo Yukiatsu Menma? Damn you Kyubey.

TheGeekHuntress
2011-05-10, 09:17
I just started watching this show and I am so glad that I did. I can't wait to catch up so I can read all the spoilers. I won't label this the best show of the season but it is definitely seems like its trying to get there.

ahelo
2011-05-11, 19:55
Hanairo/Anohana Rivalry: A pitiful attempt to pit them against each other. (http://traveleronrevenge.wordpress.com/2011/05/12/hanasaku-iroha-vs-anohana-the-official-rivalry-post/)

Guardian Enzo
2011-05-11, 21:03
Hanairo/Anohana Rivalry: A pitiful attempt to pit them against each other. (http://traveleronrevenge.wordpress.com/2011/05/12/hanasaku-iroha-vs-anohana-the-official-rivalry-post/)

As brought to you by Makoto from Denpa Onna...:heh:

There's room in my heart for both - it's not a competition. But if it were, AnoHana would be winning...

Archon_Wing
2011-05-11, 21:27
Hanairo is a pretty show and has the best character (Ohana) out of the shows' casts.

Anohana is better at everything else. It never compromises its narrative even during silly moments and characters have depth when you take in account the situation and how they handled the events that happened to them. Just watching the show gives me the feeling that it has an artistic touch to stir emotion, and honestly I have very little to complain. It's better in being both funny and dramatic.

To me, there's at least 2 levels of difference between the storytelling. This isn't to say that Hana Iro is bad in any way, but Ano Hana just stands out better, while Hana Iro may be somewhat above average-- nothing special.

darkmanure
2011-05-12, 06:11
I dropped Ohana in 1 episode, it was nothing special to me. It did have great production values though, much greater then Ano hana in that department (not like it needs it though).

The soundtrack of Ano hana does disappoint me at times. Some of the scenes felt like the soundtrack was forcing the mood instead of complimenting it. I guess I'm spoiled by Welcome to NHK soundtrack.

Izayoi
2011-05-12, 21:42
I definitely cannot see how Hanairo is superior. Personally, it is just another anime I could drop and feel good about dropping. (Maybe I am making too bold of a statement without supporting it with something, but then again who cares bout my opinion...) Also [I] have no idea why people feel so obstructed by the fact Menma could eat and move physical objects. Though, how Menma died still remains one of the big mysterious[to me]. (Have yet to watch Episode 5)

deadite
2011-05-13, 14:13
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forget-me-not

Flower
2011-05-13, 14:24
... There's room in my heart for both - it's not a competition. But if it were, AnoHana would be winning...

Me too.

Both series are great imo. But Ano Hana gets the nod for being a little better in my camp. ;)

InfiniteDistance
2011-05-17, 18:00
This is definitely my favourite show right now. Though I like the visuals, it's about the feeling and atmosphere it conveys, it all feels so..gentle and subtle. It definitely makes me think about my own post-school (high school as well as uni) and the friends that have come and gone (mostly gone.. forever alone.gif).

User68604
2011-05-18, 06:56
the show is good, no doubt....but i had high expectations going in, seeing as some people compared the "emotional value" as rivaling Clannad After Story.

its a solid slice of life, as im sure we all have something in the past to move on from, thus making it easy to relate.

would say its FAR from a masterpiece though...en-route to a 7 or 8/10 ranking for me, unless they really ramp up the drama/SOL elements :D

Pocari_Sweat
2011-05-18, 07:19
the show is good, no doubt....but i had high expectations going in, seeing as some people compared the "emotional value" as rivaling Clannad After Story.

its a solid slice of life, as im sure we all have something in the past to move on from, thus making it easy to relate.

would say its FAR from a masterpiece though...en-route to a 7 or 8/10 ranking for me, unless they really ramp up the drama/SOL elements :D

People's mileage varies no doubt. But for me personally, this anime almost has the emotional impact as Clannad After Story but minus all the slapstick comedy that was at least half of the first season, which is why at the moment I would rate it higher. But then again I'm not much of a fan of such humour, so that's where my mileage varies.

But we're only half way through so it's still possible to a suddenly take a noise dive in quality. However, I'm optimistic so I don't see it really happening and suddenly making a 180.

EDIT: Plus, this was probably the only anime that had me almost shed some tears from the first episode.

VentAileron
2011-05-18, 08:35
Hmm, Clannad delivers the heart-tugging moments in short strong punches, while AnoHana seems to be more subtle on that part. Then again, a single episode of AnoHana is rich with emotional content, whereas Clannad has...well a lot of 'I-don't-care-about-this' scenes. :heh:

BladeEntity
2011-05-18, 09:03
The difference between Clannad and Anohana would be the fact one is a VN adapation (albeit one of the better ones) and the other is an anime original. The number of episodes needs to be factored in Clannad lasted 2 seasons enough to fufill the intended romantic comedy for season 1 and in season 2 the more emotional aspects are put into play, family, life and death.

For AnoHana, since its shorter the emotional story the producers and writers thought of must play out within that number of episodes on that note, the themes are different.

AnoHana focuses on growing up similar to HanaIro. AnoHana focuses on the life after experiencing the death of someone close. So the main character Jintan is not the same as Ohana and is more focused on bringing out an emotional response rather than a "she's so cute" response.

On the whole I like both shows really much as they both are about coming of age and most importantly they are anime originals I love watching those...

Spartanz1170
2011-05-19, 02:43
This show has certainly have my attention... I want to see how it ends

nekolexis
2011-05-20, 06:08
Ano Hana's been absolutely amazing. Each episode is beautifully crafted, from character designs, animation and music.

edit by Mod: link removed

cyth
2011-05-28, 11:57
I have a question for thread participants: how excited are you for AnoHana?

Honestly, I've built up very mixed feelings about it. Each week we dissect each episode and reflect on how to the show is progressing. Most of us reconfirm it to be among the best, if not the best show of the season, but I feel like I'm lacking something that I usually feel when watching series of AnoHana's quality grade.

Then I thought: maybe its genre provokes a different type of response compared to other great shows that come from different genres.

The problem I have is that I'm certain I will completely forget about it in a couple of months' time, I'm also certain it's not a candidate for my to-recommend list. Could it be that the slice-of-life drama genre is just not that exciting (anymore)? That's what I'm trying to find out.

Guardian Enzo
2011-05-28, 15:20
I have a question for thread participants: how excited are you for AnoHana?

On pins & needles pretty much. I'm pot-committed emotionally at this stage - I've bought into the premise and whatever the ending is - good or bad - it's going to have an impact. I don't personally have any feelings that this will be a series I quickly forget.

Reckoner
2011-05-28, 15:54
I have a question for thread participants: how excited are you for AnoHana?


I really like the show, but I'll say this much... The overflowing praise for the show, that many tout it to be the absolute best of the season with an unquestionable margin between it and its competitors just feels totally off the mark. I think people express a huge genre bias when it comes to any shows of slice of life nature.

In terms of how memorable this anime is... Right now it's about at the level of True Tears for me. A really nice show, tightly written, but not something I go out of my way to be a complete fanboy of. That of course may change depending on the ending, which can elevate it to a higher status.

I do however think that Ano Hana isn't what is typically found in the slice of life genre, but at the same time it doesn't help it evolve at all either. Hanasaku Iroha's first tow episodes seemed to be on the right track to making it a more exciting genre, but it tailed off on the episodes afterwards.

To surmise: Ano Hana is a very good show, but not one that will redefine the genre by any means, nor is it undoubtedly the best of the Spring 2011 season. How well it's remembered? The verdict is still out on that one.

Flower
2011-05-28, 16:16
To answer Cyth's question I am in the same general boat as Guardian Enzo.

I agree with Reckoner that Ano Hana will (probably) not re-define the genre; however for me thus far it is the best of the Spring 2011 season.

Not to say that there are others I am not enjoying (Hanasaku, Nichijou, TWGOK S2, Denpa and Gosick are on my ongoing series list atm) but at the moment this is definitely the one I am enjoying the most and look forward to the most.

Triple_R
2011-05-28, 18:07
I have a question for thread participants: how excited are you for AnoHana?

My views are pretty similar to Reckoner's.

I think that Anohana is a solidly above average anime, one of the top 3 or 4 of the season (right now, I would rate it 2nd behind Steins;Gate), and just very solid slice of life drama. I usually remember anime shows that I consider "solidly above average" or better, so I probably will remember it fondly for years to come, but it's not likely going to make a personal list of all-time favorites for me.

I will also say that, like Reckoner, I don't really 'get' the "overflowing praise for the show, that many tout it to be the absolute best of the season with an unquestionable margin between it and its competitors".

I like this anime a fair bit, but I don't quite see why it's held in such extremely high esteem by some viewers.

I mean, to use a comparison, I actually wasn't blown away by Madoka Magica Episode 10, but I can see why others were. I can understand why some would consider that anime episode one of the best anime episodes of all-time.

With Anohana, I unfortunately don't even understand where some of the more overflowing praise is coming from. It's actually made me question if there's a certain je ne sais pas about the slice of life genre that I'm just not picking up on. Perhaps it's that I never watch anime shows with the goal in mind of being moved to tears (whereas I get the impression that some viewers do). I just want to watch something that I'll like and appreciate, in a general sense.

If I am moved to tears (which is very rare), fine, but I don't "psyche myself up for that", perhaps you could say. It has to happen very naturally, and it can't feel like the anime is desperately trying to get me to cry (and, honestly, Anohana does sometimes strike me as "trying too hard" so to speak).


So perhaps a lot of it is genre based. I like slice of life, but it's never been my favorite genre.

ChainLegacy
2011-05-28, 18:09
I have a question for thread participants: how excited are you for AnoHana?

Honestly, I've built up very mixed feelings about it. Each week we dissect each episode and reflect on how to the show is progressing. Most of us reconfirm it to be among the best, if not the best show of the season, but I feel like I'm lacking something that I usually feel when watching series of AnoHana's quality grade.

Then I thought: maybe its genre provokes a different type of response compared to other great shows that come from different genres.

The problem I have is that I'm certain I will completely forget about it in a couple of months' time, I'm also certain it's not a candidate for my to-recommend list. Could it be that the slice-of-life drama genre is just not that exciting (anymore)? That's what I'm trying to find out.

Still has a ways to go before I will know if it's a personal favorite or not. I will say this, it's the first anime I've watched in several months and actually become interested in. It's also the first new anime I've watched while airing in an even longer time. Might not mean much for everyone else, but this show is interesting enough to keep me coming back where so many others haven't been able to lately.

It does remind me of True Tears quality as Reckoner said, so far. But I think there is still enough loose space in the plot to become a more memorable series by the end.

Kaoru Chujo
2011-05-28, 18:48
I have a question for thread participants: how excited are you for AnoHana?.... Could it be that the slice-of-life drama genre is just not that exciting (anymore)? That's what I'm trying to find out.I'm with Reckoner in comparing this to true tears in quality and style. I was a bit more emotionally involved in that one, probably because I'm a fan of straight romance, but ended up disappointed in its emotional impact by the end. It seemed to dissipate itself somehow.

I'm enjoying this show quite a bit, but not really emotionally bowled over by it. Maybe because Menma just doesn't work all that well as a character for me. And maybe because the realistic style keeps being undercut by people's (to me) unnatural or silly actions (e.g., Yukiatsu's cross-dressing; Anaru not even trying to refute the totally false rumors; Jintan's outburst in class not really seeming to me as if it would be effective; the gang rushing off after the first thing they saw in the diary rather than reading the whole thing.) Some of the characters are very well portrayed, however (Tsuruko, Yukiatsu, sometimes Jintan and Anaru).

AnoHana is tied for second place this season, for me, with Hanasaku Iroha and Steins;Gate. How those three programs progress will determine how I feel about them in the end. The show I'm enjoying most is Denpa Onna.

Gosick is from last season, and much as I love watching it, I like Victorica as a character more than the show as a show. At least up until the excellent episode 19.

By the way, I don't see AnoHana as slice-of-life. I see it as a drama, pure and simple. The clear and continuing plot disqualifies it from being slice-of-life, for me.

Archon_Wing
2011-05-28, 19:36
I am pretty excited over this show, and it seems that it'll only get better. The story is simple but touching, and really knows to tug out people's heartstrings. It only lacks a little in subtlety, but this is the only Mari Okada work I've seen that I felt a genuine connection to. It has potential to be all-star quality, but I hesitate to bestow that title on a incomplete series.

Probably has the same effect on me as something like Kanon 2006.

Guardian Enzo
2011-05-28, 20:32
Ugh, not this "Slice of Life" deal again...

Where in the world is this "genre bias" in favor of slice of life? Aren't people entitled to love whatever series they love? Not only do I not see a genre bias in favor of slice of life, I think it's just the opposite - a lot of people dismiss a series as weightless if it doesn't reinvent the wheel or contain monumental events.

For me, I don't give a rat's ass about genre - I love quality, and this is quality. It has complex, believable characters and a hugely involving storyline. If you don't feel that way fine - not everyone will - but there's no need to dismiss a contrary opinion as inherently biased or faulty. I for one am actively hoping there aren't "big happenings" of the sort mused on in this series - not only doesn't it need them, but I think it would be a bit of a betrayal of what the series has been so far. If restricting itself to a telling a story about people and their emotional issues disqualifies it from being a great or memorable series for you, fine - but that's just your opinion and it's no better or worse than mine or anyone else's.

Pocari_Sweat
2011-05-28, 21:10
Not going to argue about what is "slice of life" because that's already been thoroughly discussed in another thread - I forget where, I think it was the Hanasaku Iroha forum somewhere.

As for the quality and expectation for Anohana, put it this way - what was the last slice of life/drama series that either emotionally moved you or made you shed a tear or two at a significant level? For me it was probably Clannad After Story - an anime that aired in 2008. That's a fair long time in anime standards. AnoHana is probably the best slice of life/drama TV series in a long time, which is why it's getting such praise, because it's rare that we get a slice of life of this caliber. Slice of life seems to be analogous to light comedies, romcom or medicore written harem dramas these days (Looking at you Amagami SS and Yosuga no Sora)

As for the undisputed best of the season from an objective standard, that's hard to say. Steins;Gate, Tiger and Bunny and Hanasaku Iroha are all of similar caliber to Anohana and they are getting praise from different types of fans and they are all have relatively different genres and approaches. A science fiction or superhero fan for example may find Anohana's drama orientation not their alley and thus boring, while comedy fans might find Anohana's drama too serious to handle.

Now, if you were looking just at me, then yes I consider Anohana the best of the season, but that's just my opinion. It may be genre bias, but it's got equally if not more to do with its execution and quality. It may come off as "trying to hard" to make me cry at times, but most slice of based dramas are. "Key"-based works are probably the worst offenders when it comes to this, but I still like them... most of the time, so it doesn't really bug me.

Reckoner
2011-05-28, 22:30
All I was trying to point out is that I find it funny that the two most talked about shows this season are Hanasaku Iroha and Ano Hana, and while they deserve to be talked about, I find it a damn shame that other shows which I find equal if not better quality than those two series are not getting as much said about them in these parts.

Sure, we haven't seen a good slice of show, or whatever the hell you want to call it, in a long time, but I think that speaks more about how shit the series in past years have been (Granted, shows like Wandering Son were absolutely wonderful, if not better than what I've seen of Ano Hana so far) rather than how good this has been. We finally get a well executed dramatic story, and everyone jumps on it, calling it the best of the season. People can think what they want, but "I" personally just think this is an overreaction.

The question after all is how we felt about Ano Hana, and that's how I feel. I'm not discrediting people's opinions here. :heh:

Pocari_Sweat
2011-05-28, 22:34
All I was trying to point out is that I find it funny that the two most talked about shows this season are Hanasaku Iroha and Ano Hana


Actually... on AS at least, the most talked about anime is Hidan no Aria, though a lot of the comments are criticisms... :heh:

Reckoner
2011-05-28, 22:45
Actually... on AS at least, the most talked about anime is Hidan no Aria, though a lot of the comments are criticisms... :heh:

I guess I should correct myself, the two most talked about shows in a very positive manner :heh:.

Triple_R
2011-05-28, 22:47
Well, after reading Guardian Enzo and acejem's latest posts on this thread, I have a better idea of just where the very high assessment is coming from.

"Complex, believable characters and a hugely involving storyline" are indeed great strengths for any anime show, or even any piece of fiction in general, to have.

And to acejem's point of how rare shows like AnoHana are... that's probably a very good point, really. One that I'm perhaps not fully cognizant of as I've gradually watched through many of the top school life drama shows of the past several years in just the last year and a half or so. So that may very well be giving me a skewed perception of just how frequently these series come up.

Guardian Enzo
2011-05-28, 23:12
Reckoner, let me ask you as question. How many times over, let's say, the last 2 years (8 seasons) would you say the "Two most talked about" series have been slice of life? (Hint: a quick perusal of the series that got sub-forums would be a great way to check. Hint #2 - the answer is "not very often"). Maybe - just maybe - these series are getting talked about because of how damn good they are (especially this one) and not because of what they are?

Mind you, "most talked about" is still pretty subjective. So, for that matter, is "slice of life" though I don't want to re-hash that argument for the zillionth time. I sometimes feel like any character-driven series is thrown into this giant pile called "slice-of-life" irrespective of what other elements go into its construction.

Kanon
2011-05-29, 05:26
I have a question for thread participants: how excited are you for AnoHana?

Honestly, I've built up very mixed feelings about it. Each week we dissect each episode and reflect on how to the show is progressing. Most of us reconfirm it to be among the best, if not the best show of the season, but I feel like I'm lacking something that I usually feel when watching series of AnoHana's quality grade.

Then I thought: maybe its genre provokes a different type of response compared to other great shows that come from different genres.

The problem I have is that I'm certain I will completely forget about it in a couple of months' time, I'm also certain it's not a candidate for my to-recommend list. Could it be that the slice-of-life drama genre is just not that exciting (anymore)? That's what I'm trying to find out.

I feel the same way as you. I don't think the genre is the problem, the show is simply lacking that little something that would enable me to get emotionally involved in it.

My thoughts are pretty much exactly the same as Kaoru Chujo's. Menma, as adorable as she is, is not working for me as a character. Besides, her omnipresence in the anime (from our point of view) makes it very hard to connect with the characters' pain: since we see her all the time, whether in the past or the present, it's as if she never died for us. Furthermore, the whole ghost aspect of the show has been awfully handled, to the point I sometimes feel it would have worked out better if she had just been a hallucination.

I too think the characters' actions are unnatural. Yukiatsu crossing dressing was incredibly weird. What was even weirder is that this plot point (which should have been major) was handled so casually. Tsuruko teases him about it once in a while and that's about it. He himself doesn't even seem to care that much that he was seen cosplaying as HIS DEAD FRIEND, and he already appears to have gotten over this issue. The way they treated this plot line was incredibly weird.

Another problem is that they're trying too hard to make us cry. This tear-jerking drama is just way too obvious to work on me, and instead produces the opposite effect. That's why the lastest episode is the one I enjoyed the most so far. The storytelling was more natural and subtle in this one.

I do think this is a very good show, and at the same time I also think it's the most overrated show of the season. It's far from being perfect. But, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion.

MeoTwister5
2011-05-29, 05:31
Personally if I had to end up making all sorts of rankings, analysis and whatnot based on the concepts of approach, style and genre just to be able to ascribe a very subjective idea of quality, it may be high time for me to just loosen up and enjoy the ride, or find a new hobby.

So yes, I agree with everything Enzo said.

Guardian Enzo
2011-05-29, 10:42
Personally if I had to end up making all sorts of rankings, analysis and whatnot based on the concepts of approach, style and genre just to be able to ascribe a very subjective idea of quality, it may be high time for me to just loosen up and enjoy the ride, or find a new hobby.

So yes, I agree with everything Enzo said.

I agree with everything MeoTwister said... ;)

Reckoner
2011-05-29, 15:14
Part of the fun of watching series is comparing and analyzing them for me. I've rated Ano Hana very high despite everything I've said. Honestly, the moment I stop caring about doing these things is when I've stopped really enjoying this hobby.

Reckoner, let me ask you as question. How many times over, let's say, the last 2 years (8 seasons) would you say the "Two most talked about" series have been slice of life? (Hint: a quick perusal of the series that got sub-forums would be a great way to check. Hint #2 - the answer is "not very often"). Maybe - just maybe - these series are getting talked about because of how damn good they are (especially this one) and not because of what they are?

Mind you, "most talked about" is still pretty subjective. So, for that matter, is "slice of life" though I don't want to re-hash that argument for the zillionth time. I sometimes feel like any character-driven series is thrown into this giant pile called "slice-of-life" irrespective of what other elements go into its construction.

This has nothing to do with what series get subforums. I'm talking about series that people actively go around and describe as the best, from a critic standpoint. Whenever a slice of life, or "character driven" story, or whatever you want to call it, simply is made and doesn't fail, I tend to see these sort of stories pushed immediately to the front of the season in people's eyes.

However, focusing on what I said about bias is of little consequence. I frankly didn't care about this point. More importantly, I just think that Ano Hana is being overrated, and I provided a possible explanation for that in my own eyes. I am only saying that I'd like to see some other series this season get more attention.

Xuru-kun
2011-05-29, 15:50
I don't know if someone already saw this or not but...
If Menma is a "ghost" and she can move a objects and make a meal... and no one bealive Jintan that he can see her and comunicate, then why the hell he don't ask her to do something on front of all... or Jintan is so stupid that he don't realize that yet? =x="] So what the ****? ;x

Deconstructor
2011-05-29, 20:49
The incoming walls of text are too massive to be read in one sitting.

Anohana definitely tries to make it's viewers cry through extremely sad and heartwarming situations. The first episode made this objective quite clear to me.

There's something on my mind. Execution and content are not two discrete, separate entities. It's helpful to think of them as different, simply because one can write about different things in different ways. But really, they're the same thing. The way in which something is shown is what it's about. And the content of any work is based on the way it's crafted and executed. In scientific terms, look to wave-particle duality: Matter is a wave and a particle, both at the same time.

As to emotionally involving oneself in any work of fiction: Yes, you have to have an eagerness to break the hardened, critical, stoic personality of modern today and dive into some obviously untrue stories. You have to stop looking at each and every event from a skeptical light; take characters and their actions at surface value. Try to sympathize with them by listening and watching their emotions pour out to the surface.

This is pretty easy to say and rather difficult to do, because today's intellectual society doesn't really put a lot of value on emotions. Reason shines the path to truth, not washed-up emotions. In school, you intake many great ideas and equations, but you don't really learn a lot about feelings. A student is assumed to foster their emotions outside of school.

From what I read, a lot of the posters here have an emotional barrier set up to deflect against all but the most compelling of stories. I would think Anohana is sad enough to reach even the most hardened otaku out there, but this thread is making me reconsider how effective a dramatic anime must be to gain intellectual approval.

To some people, Anohana's stellar ratings (by ANN's weighted average, this show is #1 at 9.15) are an anomaly. Breaking the show down into parts, numbers, and analysis, there really is little to be considered extraordinary or exceptional. Ghost stories have been used before, and they often contain elements of the supernatural to hook viewers in. Physically, there's nothing unbelievable about Anohana, except for the ghost part. We might be skeptical of the characters' personalities, but it's all feasible in real life. So what's making Anohana so appealing to everyone but the intellectual crowd?

Hmm... people don't know what they want. I tell myself I like giant laser beams and epic time travel, but I end up rating a coming-of-age anime higher than any shonen fare I've seen before (outside of Full Metal Alchemist). When I try rationalizing Anohana's greatness into words, there isn't much justification or evidence. I probably wouldn't hold up in court with an emotional plea like "Menma makes me really sad" while shows like Blue Exorcist have blue flames and sword fights. Yet, I didn't exactly think I would thoroughly enjoy any magical girl show either, and look what happened with Madoka Magica.

Therefore, the only reason I can offer in defense of Anohana's absurd critical acclaim is the following: It's not what people are seeking out in anime, and that makes it exceptional. I didn't expect to get overwhelming sadness and drama, but after watching Anohana, I realize it's actually my favorite type of anime. Maybe others are also feeling the same way.

I have never watched True Tears, but I'm guessing it didn't do as well.

SuperKnuckles
2011-05-30, 09:06
True Tears was really nice, but it ended too abruptly and very vaguely. I hope this show doesn't fall into the same trap. Too many 11-12 episode shows tends to fall into a rut since they can't finish at a nice spot. It's usually the 2 cour shows that has enough time for a proper story buildup to finish well.


That said, I don't really care about the popularity tornado of this show. It looks nice and all but yeah, the hype is a bit too much. Same for Madoka. I just found a way to tune it out so I can focus on the shows themselves.

For me personally, the story is not touching only on its own merits, but because I was in the same situation as Jinta regarding many past traumas. I don't really think people can quite understand the loneliness and 'man, that person is crazy' thing that happens especially if traumas hit you so much you can actually hallucinate (though not as strongly as Menma. lol). I think it's showing the people who may not be affected by such strong traumas that kind of loneliness, that I think kind of swept people off their feet a bit. Still not sure how it'll be when it finishes, but I think that's one aspect of it, that dealing with trauma bit.

deadite
2011-05-30, 14:57
Uh it's pretty much confirmed that Menma is not a hallucination...

OceanBlue
2011-05-30, 17:08
For me, this show so far has executed almost everything flawlessly. That in itself is an accomplishment that I'll remember for a very long time.

Flower
2011-05-30, 17:20
It is interesting to me that so many people have compared Ano Hana and Hanasaku to True Tears.

For me they are all pretty distinct "animals".

For me my fave genres ARE slice of life and coming of age, though, so it's prolly not a surprise that I have enjoyed this and Hanasaku as much as I have. To answer something Deconstructor mentioned, this kind of show is exactly the sort of thing I DO seek out, and I was delighted to find two offerings of the "type" in one season.

As the Russian saying goes "Every frog praises his own swamp." :D

GreyFlcn
2011-05-30, 20:44
Music video with a collection of clips so far in the series:

f-GxxxcOYms

Deconstructor
2011-05-31, 00:02
For me my fave genres ARE slice of life and coming of age, though, so it's prolly not a surprise that I have enjoyed this and Hanasaku as much as I have. To answer something Deconstructor mentioned, this kind of show is exactly the sort of thing I DO seek out, and I was delighted to find two offerings of the "type" in one season.

As the Russian saying goes "Every frog praises his own swamp." :D

I'm more of a shonen viewer myself (mainly because all they ever showed on Toonami was fighting) and I guess I am a little biased there.

Mmm... I find Anohana to have a more compelling effect. I feel Hanairo tries too hard in creating special stories, and sometimes the excess effort pays off. But with Anohana, there's a relaxed atmosphere in the flow of plot events. Whereas Hanairo is focused on creating a more mature, confident Ohana through her experiences at the inn, Anohana has no foreseeable path the characters must take. I didn't think Jinta, the lazy, anti-social shut-in, would be working multiple part-time jobs to build fireworks. He goes back to school briefly, but then accepts school isn't really for him (at least, for now). There isn't a coercive environment in Anohana - no pressure on the main characters to become better citizens. Most of all, there are no lessons the characters must learn by the ending. Instead, Jinta and his friends are simply living out their childhood dreams once more, making different choices from typical people. Strangely the lack of structure is what I like the most.

Now I know some people are going to say Tsuruko gets indirectly pressured by Yukiatsu to do well in school, who in turn is pressured by his past with Jinta and Menma. We only see a little bit of their suffering, however. With Anaru, she says she gets scolded by her mother, but we don't actually see the scolding take place. Most of the time, Anohana is rather chill. And I bet people really like something relaxing to watch. Indeed, as I look back on my rating spreadsheet (I keep records, don't look at me like that...) all of the lowest rated episodes seem to force the emotional issues onto me, as Hanairo does. Naturally, my favorite Hanairo episode is the one where Tomoe goes crazy on the survivalist gamers.

So I'm concluding by throwing out an idea of what people might like - easygoing, unpretentious stories that still manage to retain significance and meaning. I don't necessarily mean anime has to be simple, but it's easier to draw the general population of viewers in with casual events like playing video games or riding the train. And then, are the characters riding the train simply because they need to get from point A to B quickly, or are they just lying on the seats discussing some interesting things? Eh.

SuperKnuckles
2011-05-31, 02:25
Uh it's pretty much confirmed that Menma is not a hallucination...

Duh. Doesn't matter terribly since that's how the other characters perceive her. It's just a plot device. Whether she is or not is kind of besides the point.

Of course, other shows using the 'specter of someone's childhood friend' thing was Cross Game. That show could have benefited from being longer, but what little they delved into the death and the trauma that followed was brilliant.

Proto
2011-05-31, 15:32
So I suggested this series to my brother, and he mentioned that the only thing he felt while watching this series is that he was wasting his time and he should go out and play with his childhood friends that he hadn't seen in a while instead. So he went and did that, dropped the series and got the old gang together.

Does that counts as a success or as a failure?

Flower
2011-05-31, 15:39
So I suggested this series to my brother, and he mentioned that the only thing he felt while watching this series is that he was wasting his time and he should go out and play with his childhood friends that he hadn't seen in a while instead. So he went and did that, dropped the series and got the old gang together.

Does that counts as a success or as a failure?

:heh:

Ummm ... yes? :D

Guardian Enzo
2011-05-31, 17:02
So I suggested this series to my brother, and he mentioned that the only thing he felt while watching this series is that he was wasting his time and he should go out and play with his childhood friends that he hadn't seen in a while instead. So he went and did that, dropped the series and got the old gang together.

Does that counts as a success or as a failure?

Depends. How old is your brother?

totoum
2011-05-31, 17:18
So I suggested this series to my brother, and he mentioned that the only thing he felt while watching this series is that he was wasting his time and he should go out and play with his childhood friends that he hadn't seen in a while instead. So he went and did that, dropped the series and got the old gang together.

Does that counts as a success or as a failure?

Why choose?
I say he should have gotten the old band back together so that they all watch the anime together :D

Malkuth
2011-05-31, 17:35
I feel that AnoHana started dragging it's story after Yukiatsu was exposed. From that point on, I find speculation based on the previews way more interesting than the actual episodes.

-Sho-
2011-05-31, 19:26
Proto -> Well your bro is right , hanging around with his childhood friends & having fun with them , what's better ? Time is precious ;)