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Pellissier
2011-05-12, 07:17
Welcome to the discussion thread for AnoHana, Episode 5.

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deadite
2011-05-12, 12:07
Manma the White Knight

tsunade666
2011-05-12, 12:52
ah.... such sweet episode. Creepy yuki is not creepy anymore. He earn my + points :D
Yuki finally ... how to say it moving forward? well tsuruko did the push on it and it looks like she knew it already or like she had suspicion because she was around when yuki buy those clothes. Anaru's friend are really bad for her. It's a good thing Yuki followed her if not her "maiden" status will be strikeout. Its funny in the train scene. When Yuki ask if they can go out and that made Anaru flustered. Such cute reaction. But it looks like Yukiatsu is just testign her or asking for answer. Just like Tsuruko said. Anaru is still the same as Yukiatsu. Yukiatsu blaming himself because of the death of Menma. He confessed his feelings on that day but got turned down. He even had a gift hairpin that he threw away but it looks like Tsuruko found it and keep it. Yukiatsu just buy a new one with the same design to keep and as a reminder. Popo's scene in the end it looks like Yukiatsu isn't the only one who likes Menma. He also wants to see Menma and that made Menma cried because if Menma could really make others see her she had already do so. Ginta said stop to Popo because it only made Menma sadder than ever.

This story really hits where it hurts.

.x.crii.x.
2011-05-12, 13:50
Awww man, I can't wait to see it. D: I was at school so I didn't get to see it live. D:

serenade_beta
2011-05-12, 19:29
Uhoh... Last week, it was all:
Yukiatsu :heh::heh:
Now this week, it is:
Go, Yukiatsu! Wooh!

Kind of.
As always, a poor guy though. He tries to confess to Menma in the past... and gets interrupted by the TV Channel, with the earthquake warning. Even Earth bullies the guy... (´・ω・`)
Anyways, he definitely won some points back. Then again, I don't think he had done anything good since the series started, so anything is a plus. :heh:
And to top it off, the very end... :heh: Menma goes "ボッシュート!!" while Yukiatsu is on-screen.

Tsuruko is as always so... all-seeing.

Pidge... Poppo... (´・ω・`)

Guess all the KimoOtaku watching this will be happy to know Anal is still a virgin.
( -_-)

Next is Anal Bullying?

Manji Midou
2011-05-12, 20:57
Next is Anal Bullying?



:dots::twitch::heh:
oh my......

Cal-Reflector
2011-05-12, 21:13
Yukiatsu x Naruko?

... Intriguing!


The opening scene where he's riding and crying all over Jintan was well-done.

The producers, anticipating the effect the preview would have on viewers, had Yukiatsu ask the question that fandom has been gripped by for a week. The results were satisfactory.

However, one wonders why in-story, Yukiatsu asked whether Naruko was a virgin completely out of the blue. Just curiosity? Possibly, since Yukiatsu appears to be completely insensitive to female feelings. Naruko would have done well to throw the question back at him. Would've been an interesting, if awkward, conversation.

Freeter
2011-05-12, 22:42
As always, a poor guy though. He tries to confess to Menma in the past... and gets interrupted by the TV Channel, with the earthquake warning. Even Earth bullies the guy... (´・ω・`)

That part was unintentionally hilarious. They should keep that on the BD as an easter egg :heh:

Next is Anal Bullying?

Only if they buy some eggs first :heh:

Johnny
2011-05-12, 23:39
Guess I'm the odd one out that's not getting on the Yukiatsu bandwagon. Tsuruko said it's best that he's rotten to the core, and it looks like he's trying to infect the easily influenced Naruko with his anti-Jinta jargon...

hero147
2011-05-12, 23:50
Too bad Yukiastu didn't comment on how Jintan knew about the hair pin. =(

Malkuth
2011-05-13, 00:21
So Anaru was about to lose her virginity for free... actually a one-piece dress, but was saved by her cross-dresser psycho former friend, who asked her out after confirming that her goods are not spoiled... is another way to put what happened in the middle of the episode :heh:

Anyway, anime girls these days have zero taste in guys, Tsuriko likes Yukiakiatsu, Naruko likes Jintan, and both of them are in love with a long dead girl... :nono:

aohige
2011-05-13, 00:27
LOL WTF?
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/1982/12820458.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/12820458.jpg/)

This scene with junk food is so chaotic.
Some of them are real, and some of them are parodies, all mixed together. :heh:
Usually it's all real or all parodies, but here you have the real Calbee chips and Garigari kun, mixed with fake "Rocky" WTF. :heh: :heh:

And Pepsi NEX now featured in two current shows. :heh:

deadite
2011-05-13, 00:34
UTW botched the translation.... The guy was using watching the anime "One Piece" as an excuse to go home early. Nothing about one piece dresses there.

tsunade666
2011-05-13, 00:38
Anyway, anime girls these days have zero taste in guys, Tsuriko likes Yukiakiatsu, Naruko likes Jintan, and both of them are in love with a long dead girl... :nono:

I wonder if Popo too. You know the reaction at the end :uhoh: plus it looks to me he comes back because of Menma and he offers flowers for her too. His face at the end was pitiful so was Menma crying.

Guardian Enzo
2011-05-13, 00:49
Wow - another emotional home run. This series is batting 1.000 so far. Yukiatsu redeems himself somewhat, I guess. Tsuruko was willing to let whatever happened happen - though she knew exactly what that was. She's a cold one - analytical and whip-smart, but cold. As for Anaru, she's amazingly naive - she had no idea what she was getting herself in for. She really needs to ditch those school friends of hers - not only are they cheap, but they treat her like shit, too.

What a mess. Jintan and Yukiatsu both blame themselves for Menma's death, and can't let her go and see that they each have a Buster in front of them who loves them. If there was any doubt of Tsuruko's feelings for Yukiatsu, the fact that she saved the hairpin should dispel them. Nobody's in love with the right person at all. Yukiatsu makes a play for Anaru after saving her, just to see if he can finally beat out Jinta for something (he can't). The only one who seems removed from that side of the drama is Poppo - but who knows, we still have six eps left...

And poor Menma - dead, and still having an identity crisis.

pagan poor
2011-05-13, 01:06
More fun filled stuff. I won't go too much on what others have said, but I'll make these points (from the UTW subs):

- "He's rotten to the core" - Tsuriko. - I think she's still bitter about Yukiatsu not letting go of Memna.

- I'm pretty certain with what Jintan said about the hair pin to Yukiatsu, Yukiatsu now believes that Jintan can see Memna, and either he's reconciled with it, or there will be something more as we go along.

- Menma is now looking like she's frustrated with the fact that noone but Jinta can see her. First with Yukiatsu, then with Poppo.

- The Yukiatsu confession to Memna was so heartbreaking. I don't know how old they were when that happened, but Memna being so confused about how to answer him.. yikes.

aohige
2011-05-13, 01:12
It never ceases to surprise me how fast these guys find the place. :heh:

The hotel the scene was modeled after.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8109/hotelbmb.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/4/hotelbmb.jpg/)


And the clothes store

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/928/indax.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/indax.jpg/)

omimon
2011-05-13, 01:35
UTW botched the translation.... The guy was using watching the anime "One Piece" as an excuse to go home early. Nothing about one piece dresses there.

Ahhh, no wonder those lines didn't make any sense.

FlareKnight
2011-05-13, 02:03
Felt bad for Poppo at the end. He is just so desperate to see Menma again too. Of course he's hurting though since he lost an important friend just like the rest of them. A chance to see that friend again and talk once more is so close, but he just can't see her. I don't think it's another case of someone liking Menma romantically, but just a hurting friend who wants to see, but can't.

It's tough on Menma too. She wants to talk to everyone and see them all, but can only appear in front of Jinta. It's not like she wants things to be like that, but there you have it. She's as lost as anyone and is stuck.

Nice save by Yukiatsu. He's still got some issues especially with how he was playing with Anaru, but at the same time he did save the day. Honestly the sooner that Anaru gets rid of those friends the better. Of course she is pretty naive to think that guy had any intention of just going with her to the station. Though not like her friends stepped up or anything.

Definitely no one is focusing in the right direction. Yukiatsu and Jinta are still looking towards Menma, Anaru is focused on Jinta and Tsuruko on Yukiatsu. It's just a tough situation that they are stuck in.

tsunade666
2011-05-13, 02:10
Anaru's friend even said something obvious for others that those 2 girls expect something to happen. bad girls.

Really I don't understand anymore. I often see this type of girls in real life that I can relate. I just stay away from them but if the majority of the class are like that. I'm just alone.

Good thing I can still watch my anime

Malkuth
2011-05-13, 02:12
The two lines in question...

Anaru: "Wuan-piisu ino"
Horny middle-aged ephebophile: "Wuan-piisu, asatte..."

... or something like that :heh:

UTW botched the translation.... The guy was using watching the anime "One Piece" as an excuse to go home early. Nothing about one piece dresses there.

That makes even less sense :heh:

I wonder if Popo too. You know the reaction at the end :uhoh: plus it looks to me he comes back because of Menma and he offers flowers for her too. His face at the end was pitiful so was Menma crying.

Definitely Poppo has some loose screws, need more proof than the episodes last couple of scenes?

Kikuchi
2011-05-13, 04:31
That makes even less sense :heh:


Believe it or not, that's exactly what the guy said. Naruko asks him if he's okay with (missing) One Piece, and he answers that it's only the day after tomorrow.

Kanon
2011-05-13, 04:47
"You should squeeze the pus out of a wound. However, since he's rotten to the core, if you squeeze it all out, there might not be anything left".

Oh, Tsukuro, you... :heh:

The "is Menma a ghost or a hallucination?" debate can hopefully be laid to rest now. There's no doubt she's a ghost, since she revealed something only Menma, Yukiatsu (and apparently Tsukuro) could have known.

Not much to say about this episode. I seem to be the odd one out here, I find it very interesting and enjoyable to follow, but this anime doesn't really pull on my heartstrings. They're trying a little too hard in my opinion. Menma crying every episode is getting old.

Malkuth
2011-05-13, 04:54
^^

But still it makes more sense to me bringing as an excuse to go shopping (even very liberally translated), rather than watch a kid's show.

In other words, it is very strange how Naruko got stuck with such friends, she is way too naive :heh:

darkmanure
2011-05-13, 05:28
"You should squeeze the pus out of a wound. However, since he's rotten to the core, if you squeeze it all out, there might not be anything left".

Oh, Tsukuro, you... :heh:

The "is Menma a ghost or a hallucination?" debate can hopefully be laid to rest now. There's no doubt she's a ghost, since she revealed something only Menma, Yukiatsu (and apparently Tsukuro) could have known.

Not much to say about this episode. I seem to be the odd one out here, I find it very interesting and enjoyable to follow, but this anime doesn't really pull on my heartstrings. They're trying a little too hard in my opinion. Menma crying every episode is getting old.
Mentally she's nine and is a known crybaby. Pretty justified and consistent.

karice67
2011-05-13, 05:57
Guess I'm the odd one out that's not getting on the Yukiatsu bandwagon. Tsuruko said it's best that he's rotten to the core, and it looks like he's trying to infect the easily influenced Naruko with his anti-Jinta jargon...Hm...I do find it a tad hard to believe that he managed to settle so many issues just like that (although Menma's comment about the hairpin, & the 'thank you' (through Jinta) would have helped...), but the look on his face just after he thanked Tsuruko seems to suggest that he might have stopped blaming himself for Menma's death at least...

^^

But still it makes more sense to me bringing as an excuse to go shopping (even very liberally translated), rather than watch a kid's show.

In other words, it is very strange how Naruko got stuck with such friends, she is way too naive :heh::confused:

But no one said anything about going shopping, just something like "we're off. Naruko-chan says she not feeling too well. Also, I have school early tomorrow, after all, and I want to watch One Piece too"...

Sebasu
2011-05-13, 06:41
Loved the episode as usual. Though I wasn't really sold on Menma's crying (I kind of felt 'numb' to her now, it's like I already know she's gonna cry every episode), but Yukiatsu's scenes are really well done. It's better than any soap operas on air here. :heh:

I enjoyed the awkward conversation between Anaru and Yukiatsu on the train, as well as everything with Tsuruko in it. I'm hoping we're finally getting to know more of this ice queen next episode.

And my, Poppo scared me on the last part. It's like he's lost it with his expression. Poor guy :(

RedWing
2011-05-13, 07:24
This episode was quite good, other than the stereotypical rape guy, and the annoying crying. The characters are starting to behave like people, although it still strikes me weird that half the group seems to need a serious talk with a psychologist. Yukiatsu seems to have had a sudden mental reversal, but it's not too bad as his character now is much more real (the way he was talking with Naruko worked well), Poppo seems to have his own mental problems, Jinta is a NEET, and Naruko seems blissfully naive. End of the episode strikes a good question though, Why is Menma here? Why only to Yukiatsu? If ghosts can exist and appear to people why hasn't Jinta's mother seen him? You'd think he'd have a greater connection to his mother than a friend that died 5 years ago.

CWW
2011-05-13, 07:33
Looking a lil' crazy there, Poppo. :uhoh:

Thank God someone stepped in to prevent Anaru from being impure. In all seriousness though, she may be naive, but if I were a high school girl in a pretty dress, it wouldn't cross my mind that he's out to forcefully take advantage of me. Guys can be such jerks. Well, I hope she's learned her lesson now and finally ignore her bros hos.

Irenicus
2011-05-13, 07:47
I don't get why people are complaining about Menma crying. She cried before yes but the tears at the end were very different.

Before it was sadness for friends and family or just childlike tears (think of when a child tries to have her friends make up and end up crying), but the one that end...ouch.

It's pure frustration. She doesn't know what she is and why she's there. Her friends are broken and she's helpless. First Yukiatsu, then Poppo is begging for her attention and she can't reach them.


Good job with Yukiatsu though. I've never really been on his hate bandwagon but it's good his wounds, deep and rather unhinged, are starting to heal. And hey he saved Anaru then tested her for the lulz.

...but we haven't learned yet why he blame himself for her death. :uhoh:

Oh, and it's confirmed Tsukuro is in love with a worthless guy and she can't help it. Too bad for Jinta's Harem end.


One last thing, I'm waiting for Jinta to throw his lot in. He has serious justifications for his passivity, but eventually he'd have to step up and do what he could for Menma and himself.

And my, Poppo scared me on the last part. It's like he's lost it with his expression. Poor guy :(
I always knew he had some issues. There's no way a shy, follower-type kid would suddenly throw away normal life to travel the world without something pushing him on. He's as lonely as anyone.

cyth
2011-05-13, 08:04
The last scene with Poppo calling Menma had me thinking he might have developed a thing for young girls because of her. He's visited Thailand three times now, judging from his map, hasn't he? I hear the lolita sex industry is pretty developed there. Then he visited Vietnam, and Dubai, and all these other really shady places across South-East and South-West Asia. Dude is obese and a few years off from becoming a full-fledged pedophile. Hopefully the Super Peace Busters save him as well.

tsunade666
2011-05-13, 08:09
The last scene with Poppo calling Menma had me thinking he might have developed a thing for young girls because of her. He's visited Thailand three times now, judging from his map, hasn't he? I hear the lolita sex industry is pretty developed there. Then he visited Vietnam, and Dubai, and all these other really shady places across South-East and South-West Asia. Dude is obese and a few years off from becoming a full-fledged pedophile. Hopefully the Super Peace Busters save him as well.

Wow man, lolz reason on what's happening to Popo :heh:

Triple_R
2011-05-13, 08:24
"You should squeeze the pus out of a wound. However, since he's rotten to the core, if you squeeze it all out, there might not be anything left".

Oh, Tsukuro, you... :heh:

The "is Menma a ghost or a hallucination?" debate can hopefully be laid to rest now. There's no doubt she's a ghost, since she revealed something only Menma, Yukiatsu (and apparently Tsukuro) could have known.

Not much to say about this episode. I seem to be the odd one out here, I find it very interesting and enjoyable to follow, but this anime doesn't really pull on my heartstrings. They're trying a little too hard in my opinion. Menma crying every episode is getting old.

Loved the episode as usual. Though I wasn't really sold on Menma's crying (I kind of felt 'numb' to her now, it's like I already know she's gonna cry every episode), but Yukiatsu's scenes are really well done. It's better than any soap operas on air here. :heh:

I enjoyed the awkward conversation between Anaru and Yukiatsu on the train, as well as everything with Tsuruko in it. I'm hoping we're finally getting to know more of this ice queen next episode.

And my, Poppo scared me on the last part. It's like he's lost it with his expression. Poor guy :(


Great points by both of you, and I largely (if not entirely) agree with both of you.

Yukiatsu has actually become the character that interests me the most in this anime. Every scene with him in it in this episode was great, and he had some excellent dialogue.

I also liked Tsuruko in Episode 5, who indeed had the wittiest line of the episode.


However, I also think that Okada is laying it on a bit too thick when it comes to Menma and her crying. If this was something like a 3 or 4 episode OVA that would be fine, but sustaining this high level of heavy emotionality for seemingly every episode of a one cour run is not something I'm capable of, I have to admit. I too am growing numb to Menma as such.

aohige
2011-05-13, 08:34
^^

But still it makes more sense to me bringing as an excuse to go shopping (even very liberally translated), rather than watch a kid's show.

In other words, it is very strange how Naruko got stuck with such friends, she is way too naive :heh:

No, regardless of whether it makes sense for you or not, you would be making up lines instead of what's actually being said.

He DID use One Piece, the anime that comes on Sunday mornings, as an excuse to get out. He said he has to go since he gotta get up early in the morning, and don't want to miss One Piece. His friend goes dude that's day after tomorrow.
Later, Anaru tries to get out of the situation by asking him hey you don't want to miss One Piece right? To which he replies nah, that's day after tomorrow.

Japanese is my native, and I'm telling you, they ARE referring to the anime One Piece.

cyth
2011-05-13, 08:43
Malkuth is probably not a One Piece fan to know why this is imporant. ;) Then again, I think the whole situation was done tongue-in-cheek.

ars89
2011-05-13, 09:28
So Yukiatsu admits that he feels responsible for Menma's death. Since we still don't know the details behind her death, i'm assuming he feels responsible because of they way she turned him down and she became all flustered. At least a little tough love from Tsuroku helped him to stop cross-dressing. I wonder if he believes Jintan now ecause he knew about the hairpin that he gave Menma.

Tsuroku's lines were great once again. Didn't expect her to fid and keep the hairpin though. She really likes Yukiatsu but just frustrated that he won't get over Menma. Not surprising that she would still act normal around him though.

Anaru really has to ditch those girls. Any indication of how bad they were can be seen when they said they would stop being friends just because she's been a little distant from them recently. Also they expected something to happen when she left. She really is naive but she should pick up on these things, especially f she changes into sexier clothes.

Never liked Yukiatsu, but glad he followed her. I guess he picked up on Tsuroku's hint about the change of clothes. Though don't get why he asked about her virginity, kind of random. Like her cute reaction and being flustered about him asking her out though. Also being flustered about talking about Jintan. Didn't understand what he meat about both being left behind.

Jintan really has to step up and deal with why Menma is here. Felt bad when he side-stepped her asking to grant her wish. The guy is the least busy out of anyone possible but uses that as an excuse. At least he realized that he shouldn't have said that.

Popo finally showed a side of him that wasn't so happy go lucky. Was he replaces flowers by the river? I'm assuming that's for Menma. Also when he was eating dinner with Jintan, he looked totally desperate to see her. He really does miss her as well. Felt bad when he kept asking to see her and to help grant her nirvana. At least Jintan stepped up and made him stop, but the Menma was already crying by that point.

Cal-Reflector
2011-05-13, 09:35
Didn't understand what he meat about both being left behind.

Yukiatsu said Naruko and him were left behind because they both still have unrequited love for someone from their childhood friend, with no hope of their feelings changing, but are unable to move on.

Team Broken Hearts! These two need to get together, if only to spur Tsuruko and Jintan (well, maybe not Jintan) into some drastic action.

HayashiTakara
2011-05-13, 09:44
This show is so depressing, but It's so enjoyable :heh:

Here's what I don't get... Menma can physically interact with things... why don't she just do something around the others to let them know that her spirit is indeed there... and communicate to the others that way? Its pretty apparent that she desires to talk to everyone about something...

pagan poor
2011-05-13, 09:47
Though don't get why he asked about her virginity, kind of random.



I think that's just a reaction to him being called a crossdresser, and was meant to point out an embarrassing "fault" of hers.

While Naruko should definitely ditch her current ho bag friends, she still has to be comfortable around any new set of friends she would be around. I don't think she's there yet with her childhood friends. But that's pretty much where we're heading.

Pellissier
2011-05-13, 10:00
Here's what I don't get... Menma can physically interact with things... why don't she just do something around the others to let them know that her spirit is indeed there... and communicate to the others that way? Its pretty apparent that she desires to talk to everyone about something...
It's a recurring question and "plot device" tends to be the common answer. Something very close has been done in this episode though: Menma communicating to one of her friends (Yukiatsu) using Jintan as "medium", telling things only she and the other person could know.
However, I personally find people slowly starting to believe Jintan as more gratifying than having the big revelation in one go. At the same time, Menma's desperation about her inability to do anything to support her friends adds a lot to the drama.

tsunade666
2011-05-13, 10:14
you know Popo felt heavy when Menma just cling to him. And Menma can eat physical things and move it. She can communicate to the others though it might be creepy at first. But I just turn my brains off at that time and enjoy the emotion build up.

DragoonKain3
2011-05-13, 10:28
Yukiatsu, aren't you asking out the wrong person? I mean, for all her coldness and harsh attitude, everything Tsuruko does is all for you. XD

Tsuruko is rapidly rising to be my most favourite character of the show. I mean, just can't help it when she gets awesome oneliners like the squeeze the pus out, and nonchalantly asking Yukiatsu not to use her to improve his self-esteem. Now if only Yukiatsu is half as flirty with Tsuruko as he was with Anaru... just wanna see Tsuruko's face lol.

Kinda weird though that Tsuruko and Anaru switched places. From childhood, Tsuruko looks to be the more fashionable girl, while Anaru is the bespectacled normal girl. Now Anaru is wearing all these sexy clothes (zettai ryouiki <3), while Tsuruko's casual clothes couldn't get any more plain.

Stupid Jintan. Why muse over a dead girl when a perfectly hot bombshell of a girl (even Yukiatsu agrees!) can't stop thinking of you. :heh:

ID555
2011-05-13, 10:41
Okay Yukiatsu you redeemed yourself a little, but you'd better not start coveting the former alpha dog's lady - I'll kick your ass :[

Someone needs to kick Jinta's ass too...

Shadow5YA
2011-05-13, 11:00
It's a recurring question and "plot device" tends to be the common answer. Something very close has been done in this episode though: Menma communicating to one of her friends (Yukiatsu) using Jintan as "medium", telling things only she and the other person could know.
However, I personally find people slowly starting to believe Jintan as more gratifying than having the big revelation in one go. At the same time, Menma's desperation about her inability to do anything to support her friends adds a lot to the drama.

In a way, this hasn't been any different than when they were children. Jinta may have been the acting leader, but Menma was the figurehead that kept them together. Everything revolved around her. When she died... well, look what happened.

Guardian Enzo
2011-05-13, 11:12
Re: Yukiatsu...

I think the reason he blames himself for Menma's death is pretty straightforward - because he confessed to her ("love", not "like" - pretty ballsy for an 8 year-old) she ran off all flustered and presumably, shortly thereafter, fell into the river and drowned. Jinta blames himself because he thinks she ran off all flustered because he told her she was ugly, and he probably has no idea what happened with Yukiatsu afterwards.

It seems to be that Yukiatsu is every bit as obsessed with Jinta as he is with Menma. Asking Anaru out, it seems to me, was yet another way to see if he could beat out Jinta - this time for Anaru's unrequited affections (and failed again). I think we're a long way from saying he's all better - Tsuruko's intervention may have forced him to confront his inner Manma, and he did save Anaru from a nasty situation, but he still seems to be dealing with serious, serious issues. And let me add, that was some beautiful acting by Sakurai-san - quite different from anything I've heard from him.

Again - this is a mess. Everyone is in love with the wrong person except Poppo, and the jury is still out on him...

Shadow5YA
2011-05-13, 11:15
Re: Yukiatsu...

I think the reason he blames himself for Menma's death is pretty straightforward - because he confessed to her ("love", not "like" - pretty ballsy for an 8 year-old) she ran off all flustered and presumably, shortly thereafter, fell into the river and drowned. Jinta blames himself because he thinks she ran off all flustered because he told her she was ugly, and he probably has no idea what happened with Yukiatsu afterwards.

It seems to be that Yukiatsu is every bit as obsessed with Jinta as he is with Menma. Asking Anaru out, it seems to me, was yet another way to see if he could beat out Jinta - this time for Anaru's unrequited affections (and failed again). I think we're a long way from saying he's all better - Tsuruko's intervention may have forced him to confront his inner Manma, and he did save Anaru from a nasty situation, but he still seems to be dealing with serious, serious issues. And let me add, that was some beautiful acting by Sakurai-san - quite different from anything I've heard from him.

Again - this is a mess. Everyone is in love with the wrong person except Poppo, and the jury is still out on him...

It could have been Yukiatsu's way of consoling her. They were both "left behind" with their unrequied love, so they do have common ground. Also, Yukiatsu is currently the most aware of Anaru's feelings and probably understands her the most right now.

Pellissier
2011-05-13, 11:38
Jinta may have been the acting leader, but Menma was the figurehead that kept them together. Everything revolved around her. When she died... well, look what happened.
Excellent point, I also was thinking of this while watching this episode. How much all of this guys and girls loved - and still love - Menma. The girls too because we can see how Anaru is still attached to her ("I love you, yet I hate you" , and how she uses to talk to her through an old pic) and Tsuruko as well, the drawing(s), the hairpin, the memories.
All seen and said of Jintan and Yukiatsu, it can be safely assumed that Poppo was in love with her too, all that's left to see if it was love for a friend or the other kind of love.

Jintan may have been their "king", but Menma was their white princess, their shining star. A star whose extinguishment left the vassals without its light, bringing incurable wounds on each one of them.

CWW
2011-05-13, 11:52
I wouldn't say Jinta still has feelings for Menma as he doesn't treat her in any special way that's considered more than just friends. If you look at it that way, he's way ahead of Yukiatsu. Wouldn't it be funny if in the end Jinta is the most sane of them all? And by funny I mean hella depressing.

Shadow5YA
2011-05-13, 11:55
Also, proving Menma's presence isn't as easy as it sounds. Even if she can physically interact with the environment, common sense will work against her. She did a number of things in her family's household, but they assumed that someone else did it or that it was an accident. Either way, there's no way for the group to understand Menma without Jinta, physical presence or not.

The only way to prove that Menma exists would be if she could directly speak to them, but she can't. That leads to situations like Yukiatsu, who can lie and make assumptions on what Menma is saying, or Poppo, who apparently is bothered by the fact that he can't see or speak to Menma directly by himself.

I wouldn't say Jinta still has feelings for Menma as he doesn't treat her in any special way that's considered more than just friends. If you look at it that way, he's way ahead of Yukiatsu. Wouldn't it be funny if in the end Jinta is the most sane of them all? And by funny I mean hella depressing.

Jinta feels the same way toward Menma as Anaru does toward Jinta. They don't know if they really "like" the person they have in mind. The audience may understand that they do, but in romantic relationships there are plenty of grey areas. What is the line that separates infatuation from actually liking someone? What about liking someone as their girl/boyfriend, but not wanting to get married? How much do you have to "like" someone to consider it true love?

They were kids. They were new to love. Since they're still growing, everyone still needs time to sort out their feelings. They're not going to have strong enough feelings to where they feel certain about it unless they're given time to grow. When teenagers are asked to give an answer on the spot, they're obviously not being given time to think about it seriously, so it's only natural that people like Jinta and Anaru get embarrassed.

frubam
2011-05-13, 12:00
Oh, and it's confirmed Tsukuro is in love with a worthless guy and she can't help it. Too bad for Jinta's Harem end.

Are you sure she's not interested in Menma :uhoh:?

Malkuth
2011-05-13, 12:08
No, regardless of whether it makes sense for you or not, you would be making up lines instead of what's actually being said.

He DID use One Piece, the anime that comes on Sunday mornings, as an excuse to get out. He said he has to go since he gotta get up early in the morning, and don't want to miss One Piece. His friend goes dude that's day after tomorrow.
Later, Anaru tries to get out of the situation by asking him hey you don't want to miss One Piece right? To which he replies nah, that's day after tomorrow.

Japanese is my native, and I'm telling you, they ARE referring to the anime One Piece.

Hm...I do find it a tad hard to believe that he managed to settle so many issues just like that (although Menma's comment about the hairpin, & the 'thank you' (through Jinta) would have helped...), but the look on his face just after he thanked Tsuruko seems to suggest that he might have stopped blaming himself for Menma's death at least...

:confused:

But no one said anything about going shopping, just something like "we're off. Naruko-chan says she not feeling too well. Also, I have school early tomorrow, after all, and I want to watch One Piece too"...

Don't get me wrong, I would be the last one to doubt that did indeed were talking a bout an anime, since I am not even sure I can hear clearly enough the lines, let alone know japanese good enough to have a creditable opinion.

I am just saying that I found it strange, that's all :p

Malkuth is probably not a One Piece fan to know why this is imporant. ;) Then again, I think the whole situation was done tongue-in-cheek.

Very true :heh:

Pellissier
2011-05-13, 12:09
The only way to prove that Menma exists would be if she could directly speak to them, but she can't.
Well well, the "tell me things about my childhood that no one else except Menma knew" (through Jinta) pattern may still not prove that she exists, but it does sounds like a quite reasonable and tangible hint, or not?

Master Chibi
2011-05-13, 12:16
I'm getting some heavy Twin Spica vibes from this show.

And yeah, I find it funny that she can eat food and the like but it's hard for the show to actually continue with that and have something like hover in the air or what have you.

Still loving this show. A good story and characters does wonders to pull you in.

Shadow5YA
2011-05-13, 12:21
Well well, the "tell me things about my childhood that no one else except Menma knew" (through Jinta) pattern may still not prove that she exists, but it does sounds like a quite reasonable and tangible hint, or not?

That's my point. As long as she can only speak to Jinta, it requires the rest of the group to take a leap of faith and believe that Jinta is telling the truth.

Let's say that they did know that she was there. Problems would still arise. Poppo believes that Menma is there, but even he is now showing that he doesn't like how he can't see Menma himself. The rest will feel the same way. Why should Jinta be the only one who can hear Menma? Some of them will feel inferior and jealous.

Soconfused
2011-05-13, 12:24
What a jam packed episode, hard to believe it's only on it's 5th, still a lot more story to go apparently. Yukiatsu came out of that a lot better than I thought he would. And Anaru is just too adorable, best female of the show by far.

Anh_Minh
2011-05-13, 12:56
UTW botched the translation.... The guy was using watching the anime "One Piece" as an excuse to go home early. Nothing about one piece dresses there.
Thanks, that makes a lot more sense. An odd excuse to use in that group, but better than what I though. I was starting to wonder what was up with this anime and cross-dressers.

It never ceases to surprise me how fast these guys find the place. :heh:

The hotel the scene was modeled after.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8109/hotelbmb.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/4/hotelbmb.jpg/)


And the clothes store

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/928/indax.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/indax.jpg/)

Clearly, they have the capacity to hack into Google Street View's databases, and unleash some kind of advanced image recognition software on them. And they've decided to use their powers for... otaku cred?

The two lines in question...

Anaru: "Wuan-piisu ino"
Horny middle-aged ephebophile: "Wuan-piisu, asatte..."

Aren't they just college students?


Definitely Poppo has some loose screws, need more proof than the episodes last couple of scenes?
Eh. He believes in ghosts. Everything in those scenes comes from there, and I'm not sure I can blame him.

I don't get why people are complaining about Menma crying. She cried before yes but the tears at the end were very different.

Before it was sadness for friends and family or just childlike tears (think of when a child tries to have her friends make up and end up crying), but the one that end...ouch.

It's pure frustration. She doesn't know what she is and why she's there. Her friends are broken and she's helpless. First Yukiatsu, then Poppo is begging for her attention and she can't reach them.
She certainly feels like she's failing her friends, but there's also the pain of rejection. I know Poppo's only trying to help, but he sounds an awful lot like he's trying to get rid of her, too.


Good job with Yukiatsu though. I've never really been on his hate bandwagon but it's good his wounds, deep and rather unhinged, are starting to heal.
It looks like Tsuruko body-slammed him into the rock bottom. And now he's slowly, and hopefully steadily, going up again.

The last scene with Poppo calling Menma had me thinking he might have developed a thing for young girls because of her. He's visited Thailand three times now, judging from his map, hasn't he? I hear the lolita sex industry is pretty developed there. Then he visited Vietnam, and Dubai, and all these other really shady places across South-East and South-West Asia. Dude is obese and a few years off from becoming a full-fledged pedophile. Hopefully the Super Peace Busters save him as well.
First he's too fat, and now this? Can't he have gone there because they're the closest, most affordable places? Not to mention interesting?

Yukiatsu, aren't you asking out the wrong person? I mean, for all her coldness and harsh attitude, everything Tsuruko does is all for you. XD

Tsuruko is rapidly rising to be my most favourite character of the show. I mean, just can't help it when she gets awesome oneliners like the squeeze the pus out, and nonchalantly asking Yukiatsu not to use her to improve his self-esteem.
I do love her deadpan manner. Especially with herself.

Now if only Yukiatsu is half as flirty with Tsuruko as he was with Anaru... just wanna see Tsuruko's face lol.
As if that'd work. It reminded me of the guy with the wooden sword, in the last episode of Katanagatari. And what Shichika told him.

"Your words are nothing but talk. They don't move me at all."

Sure, he goes through the motions of asking Anaru out. But his heart isn't in it at all.

That's my point. As long as she can only speak to Jinta, it requires the rest of the group to take a leap of faith and believe that Jinta is telling the truth.
Eh. She can write.

CWW
2011-05-13, 13:04
Jinta feels the same way toward Menma as Anaru does toward Jinta.
Not at all. Jinta is quite apathetic in general. There are no hints whatsoever that Jinta still has lingering romantic feelings towards Menma. Regrets, sure, that he couldn't apologize for calling her something he didn't mean, but that's about it. He treats her like a little sister more than anything.

lahfielxi
2011-05-13, 13:06
being a ghost skeptic at this point is ridiculous. the only legs you have to stand on are:

"omg the entire show is all in jinta's head"

or

"omg jinta is super psychic, he delved into yukiatsu's mind to find something from his past that he and menma shared"

there's no leap involved after this episode+evidence from other ones.

i don't think poppo wants to get rid of her more than solve her problem so she can rest in peace.

Flower
2011-05-13, 13:06
Great, great, great!

This series is really becoming my "most looked forward to" one for the season! :D

lahfielxi
2011-05-13, 13:08
Not at all. Jinta is quite apathetic in general. There are no hints whatsoever that Jinta still has lingering romantic feelings towards Menma. Regrets, sure, that he couldn't apologize for calling her something he didn't mean, but that's about it. He treats her like a little sister more than anything.

most people don't get flustered by their little sister's matured bodies bouncing on top of them, blush, and go to sleep on a couch instead.

CWW
2011-05-13, 13:10
most people don't get flustered by their little sister's matured bodies bouncing on top of them, blush, and go to sleep on a couch instead.
They don't? It's a pretty normal reaction, really, for a young man.

lahfielxi
2011-05-13, 13:18
They don't? It's a pretty normal reaction, really, for a young man.

maybe in anime. real siblings have a natural aversion to being attracted to each other. disgust would be miles ahead of a flustered reaction, and i'd tell her to get off my bed.

point being you can't really have it both ways. either you see them as a girl/woman or a little sister, and jinta obviously sees her as the former.

CWW
2011-05-13, 13:24
Flustered doesn't mean he's attracted. I'd be flustered too if a close relative showed his/her half-naked body and sat on top of me. Cover yourself up, man!

Kaoru Chujo
2011-05-13, 13:55
Excellent episode. So much pain and confusion all round. Just like real life, but more entertaining.

No wonder this is 2channel's favorite of all this season's shows (~87,000 posts; Hanasaku Iroha, at ~76,000 is next). I can't figure out why Denpa Onna, in my mind a worthy successor to Bakemonogatari, isn't more popular (~16,000) but that's another matter.

Tsuruko is definitely great, in part due to her great lines, in part due to her fascinating attitude and obvious depth, and in large part due to how perfectly Hayami Saori is doing her voice. Real voice-acting.

Lots of excellent voice work here. From Irino Miyu as Jintan, from Sakurai Takahiro as Yukiatsu, from Tomatsu Haruka as Naruko. I'm even getting used to Kayano Ai as Menma, though she's still not as special as those first three. Same for Kondou Takayuki as Poppo.

deadite
2011-05-13, 14:16
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forget-me-not

HayashiTakara
2011-05-13, 14:38
Also, proving Menma's presence isn't as easy as it sounds. Even if she can physically interact with the environment, common sense will work against her. She did a number of things in her family's household, but they assumed that someone else did it or that it was an accident. Either way, there's no way for the group to understand Menma without Jinta, physical presence or not.

The only way to prove that Menma exists would be if she could directly speak to them, but she can't. That leads to situations like Yukiatsu, who can lie and make assumptions on what Menma is saying, or Poppo, who apparently is bothered by the fact that he can't see or speak to Menma directly by himself.



Jinta feels the same way toward Menma as Anaru does toward Jinta. They don't know if they really "like" the person they have in mind. The audience may understand that they do, but in romantic relationships there are plenty of grey areas. What is the line that separates infatuation from actually liking someone? What about liking someone as their girl/boyfriend, but not wanting to get married? How much do you have to "like" someone to consider it true love?

They were kids. They were new to love. Since they're still growing, everyone still needs time to sort out their feelings. They're not going to have strong enough feelings to where they feel certain about it unless they're given time to grow. When teenagers are asked to give an answer on the spot, they're obviously not being given time to think about it seriously, so it's only natural that people like Jinta and Anaru get embarrassed.

She only did one thing at her house... open the door.

If she picked up a pencil write on it and hold the paper up in thin air, even the biggest skeptic would shit themselves. Or hell everyone can sit back and watch her make muffins again.

Anh_Minh
2011-05-13, 15:30
About the two friends: are they really that bad?

Saying they'd stop being friends wasn't nice, but I don't think it's meant to be taken seriously. And they seemed pretty glad that Anaru was going to get laid. Sure, it's not what Anaru wanted, but they didn't know that, did they? I mean, that's what they were here for. Maybe? Yet, the one who was going to be left out (unless they planned to share the remaining guy) seemed quite magnanimous.

Or maybe they're as naive as Anaru and thought the guys just wanted to have a romantic moonlit walk on a beach or something, and were glad for that.

Anyway, I think the problem isn't that they're bad persons, but that Anaru's resemblance with them is pretty superficial. They don't really want the same things, so, yeah, that kind of incident was going to happen sooner or later. But they didn't mean any harm.

guuchan
2011-05-13, 15:39
The term in question is indeed One Piece the anime. It's actually most obvious when the guy first mentioned it:

「ワンピース見ないとだし」

You don't really "watch" a one-piece dress or whatever it's translated into. And yeah, on top of that, the other guy said it should be the day after the next day, so.

Anyway, nice execution. Just nice execution. Even though I already said it before, I'm saying this again: this show brings you no surprise. It's plain, it's simple, but yet it's powerful (sounding like my company's catch phrase now :heh:) No, the relationships between the characters aren't really that complicated. They are simple enough to comprehend. This show is all about execution, and they have been doing a god-like job at it. Please, please, keep it up for the rest of the show and it will end up as one of my favorites of all time.

By the way, Anaru mentioned Jinta looking like Yama-chan of Hey! Say! JUMP if he took care of his hair, I was like err, okay...

In case you wonder how Yama-chan looks like:

http://xn--ycke4c5evf837thlyc.com/yamadaryousuke.jpg

Kanon
2011-05-13, 16:06
Mentally she's nine and is a known crybaby. Pretty justified and consistent.

I never said otherwise. My problem with Menma crying every episode is that it lessens the emotional impact of those kind of scenes. If they keep throwing that in every episode, by the end of the anime, it won't do anything for me anymore. I've already grown fairly numb to it. The first time she cried, it hit me like a ton of bricks... when she did so in this episode, I didn't even give it any second thoughts. It's becoming a normal occurrence.

Also, proving Menma's presence isn't as easy as it sounds. Even if she can physically interact with the environment, common sense will work against her. She did a number of things in her family's household, but they assumed that someone else did it or that it was an accident. Either way, there's no way for the group to understand Menma without Jinta, physical presence or not.

What if she ate food in front of everybody, as Poppo already asked her to twice now? It'd be very hard to find a reasonable explanation to food disappearing out of thin air. Making her presence known is ridiculously easy for her. She could even communicate with everybody using notepad. I think that's another reason the final scene of this episode left me cold.

Shadow5YA
2011-05-13, 16:23
I never said otherwise. My problem with Menma crying every episode is that it lessens the emotional impact of those kind of scenes. If they keep throwing that in every episode, by the end of the anime, it won't do anything for me anymore. I've already grown fairly numb to it. The first time she cried, it hit me like a ton of bricks... when she did so in this episode, I didn't even give it any second thoughts. It's becoming a normal occurrence.



What if she ate food in front of everybody, as Poppo already asked her to twice now? It'd be very hard to find a reasonable explanation to food disappearing out of thin air. Making her presence known is ridiculously easy for her. She could even communicate with everybody using notepad. I think that's another reason the final scene of this episode left me cold.

Again, how do you explain the fact that only Jinta can directly see and hear Menma? With all the nuances and emotions that come with visible facial expressions and speech, writing does not solve the problem that Menma cannot communicate directly to the other Super Peace Busters the same way she can talk to Jinta. Also, what if more drama arises and one of them is upset enough to leave? Do you expect them to wait for Menma with her grade school knowledge to finish writing soon enough to calm them down?

Poppo already assumes that ghost Menma exists. However, even he's showing now that he has a problem being unable to see or hear her. Do you think seeing an invisible force cook muffins or write will solve that problem?

Guardian Enzo
2011-05-13, 16:25
About the two friends: are they really that bad?

Saying they'd stop being friends wasn't nice, but I don't think it's meant to be taken seriously. And they seemed pretty glad that Anaru was going to get laid. Sure, it's not what Anaru wanted, but they didn't know that, did they? I mean, that's what they were here for. Maybe? Yet, the one who was going to be left out (unless they planned to share the remaining guy) seemed quite magnanimous.

Or maybe they're as naive as Anaru and thought the guys just wanted to have a romantic moonlit walk on a beach or something, and were glad for that.

Anyway, I think the problem isn't that they're bad persons, but that Anaru's resemblance with them is pretty superficial. They don't really want the same things, so, yeah, that kind of incident was going to happen sooner or later. But they didn't mean any harm.

I guess I'd put it this way - I've yet to see anything from them to indicate they aren't that bad, and they're certainly bad for Anaru. The "us or them" nonsense, the verbal abuse of Jintan... And I certainly don't think it's likely they didn't know it was enjou kosai. They come off as typically catty, shallow and manipulative teens. Not bad people, maybe, but Anaru needs them out of her life.

Kokoru Asami
2011-05-13, 16:42
So far this show has been hitting a home run.....every episode!
If this keeps at it, its bound to be a masterpiece (to me).
The characters are so real and its nice how so much attention has been paid to detail.

CWW
2011-05-13, 16:55
What if she ate food in front of everybody, as Poppo already asked her to twice now? It'd be very hard to find a reasonable explanation to food disappearing out of thin air. Making her presence known is ridiculously easy for her. She could even communicate with everybody using notepad. I think that's another reason the final scene of this episode left me cold.
If it were that easy, wouldn't you think this phenomenon would have been discovered elsewhere ages ago? Or do you honestly believe Menma is the first of its kind? Like I said before, trying to use science to prove her existence is folly. For all we know, all the physical items she's been interacting with are only visible through the eyes of Jinta and us viewers. The door? Could have been the wind. Sense of weight? Maybe that's the extent of her ability to interact with the living world. It's not like she's dropping her actual physical weight on the person's shoulders. She. Is. Not. Real. Common sense doesn't apply.

What's more relevant, and frankly a brilliant move on their part, is that because we see Menma interact with various persons and items, she becomes more than a mere supernatural phenomenon. She becomes a real human character to us viewers, instead of a floating, gaseous, transparent, Casper-like substance that shouldn't have to abide by the laws of the physical world. It requires a level of suspension of disbelief, but to be honest, in a character-driven show, this style of execution works better than if she were able to move through walls, give off a glow and whatnot.

It's a matter of preference.

Kaoru Chujo
2011-05-13, 16:58
We all get to see Anaru's "friends" in our own way, but I think we are being directed to see them as shallow, loose, manipulative, fairly nasty "gals," who are dragging Anaru with them down a dead end. The only plus so far is girl#2 not objecting to Anaru getting her guy. That surprised me.

Anh_Minh
2011-05-13, 17:49
I guess I'd put it this way - I've yet to see anything from them to indicate they aren't that bad, and they're certainly bad for Anaru. The "us or them" nonsense, the verbal abuse of Jintan... And I certainly don't think it's likely they didn't know it was enjou kosai. They come off as typically catty, shallow and manipulative teens. Not bad people, maybe, but Anaru needs them out of her life.
Probably all true. My point is, theirs may be a self-destructive life, but they were and are willing to share it with Anaru. How are they to know it's not her desire? Anaru certainly spent a considerable amount of time and effort to fit in with them. She still looks like them.

It's like the old joke: "A friend will bail you out in the morning. A real friend will be right next to you, saying "Dude! That was awesome"." Now, of course, the kind of friend you actually need is the one who won't pull you into stupid shit in the first place. And I'm not claiming that the girls are anything more than fair weather friends to Anaru, ready to ditch her if she really becomes too boring. But still, maybe in their own way, they're being nice to her.

AmyElizzabeth
2011-05-13, 17:51
I feel really bad for Yukiatsu..with the hairpin part and all. It made me feel..I dunno. Empty? :heh:

charizardpal
2011-05-13, 18:38
It's a recurring question and "plot device" tends to be the common answer. Something very close has been done in this episode though: Menma communicating to one of her friends (Yukiatsu) using Jintan as "medium", telling things only she and the other person could know.

But there's one flaw: Tsuruko also has the original hair pin and therefore know about its significance. In other words, its still possible Tsuruko knew about the hair pin, and somehow this information got passed on to a hallucinating Jinta. If not for this it'd be clear that she existed as a ghost.

Sackett
2011-05-13, 18:47
It's like the old joke: "A friend will bail you out in the morning. A real friend will be right next to you, saying "Dude! That was awesome"." Now, of course, the kind of friend you actually need is the one who won't pull you into stupid shit in the first place. And I'm not claiming that the girls are anything more than fair weather friends to Anaru, ready to ditch her if she really becomes too boring. But still, maybe in their own way, they're being nice to her.

See, I'm of the philosophy that the true friend is the one who comes and bails you out in the morning, and the guy in there with you may or may not be a friend, but he's definitely an idiot.

Archon_Wing
2011-05-13, 19:02
Oh wait, the episode is over? NOOOOO! I'd have to say, that feeling is what makes a show outstanding to me.

Hah, it seems they'll never let Yukiatsu over this, nor will Jintan forgive him for a while about raining him with tears. :heh: As expected Crossdresser had feelings for Menma and he could never get past it. But hey, at least he's doing well in other parts in life.

Anaru, escaping in fake friends and pressured by shady guys. That's gonna take a while to fix too. Yukiatsu tries to regain some credibility and partially succeeds. But we'll never forget Manma.

And we really have to wonder why Menma only appears to Jintan. Surely Jintan could never have know about the hairclip, so Menma must be some kind of presence. It's a bit frustrating for both him and Menma.

And man, these people are a messed up bunch. One might wonder why nobody's seen a shrink, but there definitely is a huge stigma concerning mental issues. One wouldn't hesitate to see a doctor if one's arm was broken, or they weren't feeling well elsewhere, but when it comes to issues of the brain, suddenly people can't see it like that. If something is wrong with you, then something is wrong with you, but it seems people with mental issues tend to be sterotyped as "defective". And nobody wants to be seen as that, so they try everything in their power to act normal and hide the problem under the rug. Or wait til its dark and jump around in a little girls' dress.

I lol'd about Naraku commenting on Jintan fixing his hair; he really should. :heh:

Izayoi
2011-05-13, 19:42
I like crossdresser... Every character's rating just keep on rising, really.

SuzushinaYuriko
2011-05-13, 19:52
Yukiatsu is becoming one of my favorite characters in this show. I think coming to terms with himself has lifted a big load off of him and that he won't act like he did before.

I hope we see more of bro Yukiatsu throughout the rest of the series.

On another note, those Pocky Rocky boxes were incredibly accurate. I've eaten the super thin kind in the white box various times.

ahelo
2011-05-13, 19:56
Episode 5 (http://traveleronrevenge.wordpress.com/2011/05/14/ano-hana-05-redeeming-yuki-chan/)

One of the best episodes so far.

Yukiatsu is pulling of a Kawashima Ami. Starting out as someone everyone hates then pulls off something crazy then becomes totally awesome.

ykf566
2011-05-13, 21:15
Also, proving Menma's presence isn't as easy as it sounds. Even if she can physically interact with the environment, common sense will work against her. She did a number of things in her family's household, but they assumed that someone else did it or that it was an accident. Either way, there's no way for the group to understand Menma without Jinta, physical presence or not.

The only way to prove that Menma exists would be if she could directly speak to them, but she can't. That leads to situations like Yukiatsu, who can lie and make assumptions on what Menma is saying, or Poppo, who apparently is bothered by the fact that he can't see or speak to Menma directly by himself.




She can interact with her environment or at the very least is an observer, so she would know things Jinta would not know.

Hold up a piece of paper in front of Jinta, write something and ask him to ask Menma.

aohige
2011-05-13, 21:16
maybe in anime. real siblings have a natural aversion to being attracted to each other. disgust would be miles ahead of a flustered reaction, and i'd tell her to get off my bed.


Bullshit, speak for yourself. :heh:
I can get a boner if my sister bounced on me on bed wearing nothing but one thin clothes.

Cal-Reflector
2011-05-13, 21:22
Naruko should have agreed to go out with Yukiatsu for the following reasons:

1 It would spur a reaction from Tsuruko and possibly Jinta. At the very least, this would help Yukiatsu realize that Tsuruko has been pining after him for years.

2 We would get to see Naruko transform from absorbing the influence of I'm-the-handsome-and-smart-and-athletic-prince-of-an-elite-school Yukiatsu. Who wouldn't want to see Naruko with glasses and... a ponytail?

3. Naruko's two Gal Friends would go ape-shit when they see Naruko's sparkly new BF.

4. They were there during each others darkest hour: Yukiatsu, when he was exposed as Manma, and when Naruko was about to be forced into sex with a stranger. Being there for each other at their low point--without recoiling away--is good for their relationship.

Even if only temporarily and as an experiment, Naruko dating Yukiatsu would help the two begin to move on from the trauma years ago. No one says they have to get married, but dating at their age is normal, and preferable to cross-dressing at night and hanging out with a bad crowd. Dating a friend you trust is a good place to start, and even though Yukiatsu is a certified hentai, Naruko could do much, much worse.

Edit: 5. We can entertain ourselves from 2chan and 4chan's reactions to this twist.

OceanBlue
2011-05-13, 23:11
Another great episode! I really don't have much to say that everyone else hasn't said. This episode definitely marked a shift in how Yukiatsu will be portrayed, and now they're starting to tackle other issues regarding Menma. Even with a shift in focus, though, you can still tell that Yukiatsu still has some development to go through.

Soconfused
2011-05-14, 01:00
Also, who had the real Menma pin between Tsuruko and Yukiatsu? I think the one Tsuruko pulled out was old and rusty while Yukiatsu's looked brand new, though that brings up the question of how and why Tsuruko had the pin.

Pellissier
2011-05-14, 01:09
I assumed Tsuruko took that hairpin and conserved it since, while Yukiatsu simply bought a new one. It was mentioned that he used to buy a lot of women's accessories.

Besides, so far we've seen the story from 3 POVs, Jintan, Anaru and Yukiatsu. I'm convinced they'll also show us how things went that day from Tsuruko and Poppo's perspectives.

Reckoner
2011-05-14, 02:10
Another very solid episode. 9/10

I've come to terms with the lack of emotional impact I've experienced these past two weeks since I realized had I marathoned this series, it would've been different. It's simply a byproduct of the week wait between each episode that it's hard for me to get fully engrossed, emotionally speaking, in each episode without something different to pull at my heart. There doesn't exist a show out there than can maintain that degree of emotional impact on a week in week out basis, and I should be fair to Ano Hana that I probably won't feel as emotional as episode 1 until it gets close to the end.

Overall though, I'm loving how well executed everything is and the characters continue to shine.

physics223
2011-05-14, 02:21
I thought this episode was excellent. If the quality of the series keeps like this it will probably rampage to my top anime of 2011. I love how the relationships in this series are somewhat similar to the quirky romances in Honey and Clover.

It's been a long while since Tsuruko was pining for Yukiatsu - and he can't even see that yet. I'm glad he's moved on and has become a massive bro to Naruko. Somehow, I feel that Tsuruko's been trying to show how she's felt for a long time toward Yukiatsu, only for him to ignore that because of his obsession with Menma. It's somewhat parallel to Jinta's situation, where his concern with Menma and his past have prevented him from seeing Anjou's ten-year waiting for him.

I love this series.

Anh_Minh
2011-05-14, 03:55
Even if only temporarily and as an experiment, Naruko dating Yukiatsu would help the two begin to move on from the trauma years ago. No one says they have to get married, but dating at their age is normal, and preferable to cross-dressing at night and hanging out with a bad crowd.

If there's one thing Hourou Musuko's taught me, it's that dating and cross-dressing aren't mutually exclusive. :p

be0wulf
2011-05-14, 03:55
Also, who had the real Menma pin between Tsuruko and Yukiatsu? I think the one Tsuruko pulled out was old and rusty while Yukiatsu's looked brand new, though that brings up the question of how and why Tsuruko had the pin.

Tsuruko probably found the original, since she wishes Yukiatsu had given it to her rather than Menma.

Yukiatsu bought a new one in memory of Menma. Or maybe he puts it on when he turns into Manma, who knows?

Forsaken_Infinity
2011-05-14, 05:30
That was so damn awesome. Yukiatsu's character development in one episode surpasses almost all character development I have ever come across in any medium. Just so damn awesome. That alone deserves a 10 out of ten. But everything else was perfect to boot on top of that!

I agree with the notion that Jinta never really was romantically into Menma. Or rather, it didn't matter and he never thought about it until as an afterthought following the incident. And I dare say the same was true for Menma. Their relationship was more like close friends. But both were pushed into a corner by the expectations and assumptions of the rest of their peers. Menma didn't show any sign that she was into Jinta romantically either. It was the rest of the bunch that rotated around the two and forced them into that awkward situation. And Menma didn't reject Yukiatsu for Jinta or anything, she was just dumbfounded then and there.

I seriously wish Naruko had gone out with Yukiatsu though.

This episode confirmed that Tsuruko does have romantic interest in Yukiatsu. It doesn't matter whichever way I guess but that does level the playing field than otherwise. As mature an act as she pulls, she is still just as stuck in the past and as unable to express herself as the rest of the bunch.

Thus far, the only one who seems to have completely moved on is Poppo but if that scene at the river is any hint, I guess there is drama to involve him too.

And thus, as of this episode, the one guy who has moved on the most is the one guy who was hated by the majority of the viewers up until last episode. Kudos to Yukiatsu, that was seriously awesome. Serious brofist although he doesn't exist :heh:

Heck, even his deviance had a much better basis than even I (because I usually give characters much more leeway) thought. It wasn't anything antagonistic whatsoever. He genuinely blamed himself for Menma's death, much like Jinta did. But I am sure there is more to what happened that day.

winhlp32
2011-05-14, 06:14
A1 did it on purpose. Menma's SHAFT moment made me laugh when there shouldn't be laughter.

Otherwise, good episode overall.

darkmanure
2011-05-14, 07:25
Why would Naruko go out with a guy she don't like? That makes no sense at all and she clearly flat out rejected him.

Props to Yukiatsu and this is the only anime that reversed my feelings towards a certain character this quickly. I don't think he has fully recovered yet. He puts of a facade in front of people.

Triple_R
2011-05-14, 09:09
About the two friends: are they really that bad?

Saying they'd stop being friends wasn't nice, but I don't think it's meant to be taken seriously.

I think it's a fair warning of what could happen if Anaru doesn't snap out of her funk (as her friends probably see it).

While Anaru's two friends are more than a bit questionable (they were nasty to Jinta when he made his attempt to come back to school, and they strike me as a bit shady at times), I think that they have legitimate reason to be ticked off with Anaru.

From their perspective, Anaru has been spacing out on them for awhile now, and she's kind of just awkwardly sitting there while her two friends are having fun and chatting/joking around with each other enthusiastically. This wouldn't be such a big deal except Anaru refuses to even hint at why she's so obviously distracted by something else whenever she's with her friends. So there's a problem here, but Anaru's two friends can't do anything about it because she's constantly lost in thought and not really conversing with them anymore.

So it's pretty understandable to me why Anaru's friends are getting a bit exasperated with her right now.


Anyway, I think the problem isn't that they're bad persons, but that Anaru's resemblance with them is pretty superficial. They don't really want the same things, so, yeah, that kind of incident was going to happen sooner or later. But they didn't mean any harm.

That's a lot of it too, yes.


I never said otherwise. My problem with Menma crying every episode is that it lessens the emotional impact of those kind of scenes. If they keep throwing that in every episode, by the end of the anime, it won't do anything for me anymore. I've already grown fairly numb to it. The first time she cried, it hit me like a ton of bricks... when she did so in this episode, I didn't even give it any second thoughts. It's becoming a normal occurrence.

That's my fear as well.

I certainly don't expect every episode of a 10 episode or longer anime to have major emotional impact, but this does in fact seem to be what Okada is aiming for. By laying it on so thick right now, I fear that by the time we reach the end I'll be so numbed to all the crying that the more emotional climatic scenes will be somewhat lost on me.


Naruko should have agreed to go out with Yukiatsu for the following reasons:

1 It would spur a reaction from Tsuruko and possibly Jinta. At the very least, this would help Yukiatsu realize that Tsuruko has been pining after him for years.

2 We would get to see Naruko transform from absorbing the influence of I'm-the-handsome-and-smart-and-athletic-prince-of-an-elite-school Yukiatsu. Who wouldn't want to see Naruko with glasses and... a ponytail?

3. Naruko's two Gal Friends would go ape-shit when they see Naruko's sparkly new BF.

4. They were there during each others darkest hour: Yukiatsu, when he was exposed as Manma, and when Naruko was about to be forced into sex with a stranger. Being there for each other at their low point--without recoiling away--is good for their relationship.

Even if only temporarily and as an experiment, Naruko dating Yukiatsu would help the two begin to move on from the trauma years ago. No one says they have to get married, but dating at their age is normal, and preferable to cross-dressing at night and hanging out with a bad crowd. Dating a friend you trust is a good place to start, and even though Yukiatsu is a certified hentai, Naruko could do much, much worse.

Edit: 5. We can entertain ourselves from 2chan and 4chan's reactions to this twist.

That's a very good post. After reading it, I have to agree with you. It would have made for a very interesting turn of events, and it could have opened up many intriguing subplot routes.

Sackett
2011-05-14, 09:23
I'd like to say that after thinking about it...

Poppo must have some major issues too.

I mean he's introduced as this happy go lucky carefree guy who hasn't changed since childhood (except getting bigger), and everyone else is so angsty that we think "oh finally someone who is normal."

But how normal is it for a highschool aged boy to be traveling the world and living in a "fort" down by the river?

Do 16 year-olds really just work odd jobs and hop on planes to visit the world, all while living as a hobo? Is that really a common thing in Japan? 'Cause it's not that common over here in America.

How messed up must Poppo's family life be? Where is his family anyway? Something is not right here. Not right at all.

Kirarakim
2011-05-14, 09:49
Do 16 year-olds really just work odd jobs and hop on planes to visit the world, all while living as a hobo? Is that really a common thing in Japan? 'Cause it's not that common over here in America.

I expect it isn't common but isn't it true that High School isn't mandatory in Japan? So technically speaking Poppo could legally do this if he had the money.

I guess it is the same with how Jintan can so easily avoid school.

That being said despite appearances of Poppo being happily go lucky I expect that isn't exactly so and he is suffering too. Just like Yukiatsu was putting on a facade I think Poppo might be too just more in the "everything is great" way when it really isn't.


Anyways I just watched the first 5 episodes yesterday and fell in love with this series. Although I have to admit while I am interested in Menma's wish it is the other 5 characters and their interaction that makes the series for me.

Kanon
2011-05-14, 09:59
Again, how do you explain the fact that only Jinta can directly see and hear Menma? With all the nuances and emotions that come with visible facial expressions and speech, writing does not solve the problem that Menma cannot communicate directly to the other Super Peace Busters the same way she can talk to Jinta. Also, what if more drama arises and one of them is upset enough to leave? Do you expect them to wait for Menma with her grade school knowledge to finish writing soon enough to calm them down?

Poppo already assumes that ghost Menma exists. However, even he's showing now that he has a problem being unable to see or hear her. Do you think seeing an invisible force cook muffins or write will solve that problem?

All I was saying that based on what we've seen so far, it is possible to prove to the others that she is really there. It wouldn't solve everything, but it would make things a bit easier for them. Writing was just a random idea, a better way to communicate would be for Jinta to act as an interpreter; which is in fact exactly what he did in this episode, and in my opinion, it produced very positive results. Most of the gang seem to feel guilty over Menma's death, the simple fact of having her tell them she loves and they don't have anything to feel bad about would help them to some extent.

As you said though, the fact only Jinta can see her is an issue, but the cat is already out of the bag anyway. There's nothing they can do about that. Even Menma doesn't know why Jinta can only see her, and feels incredibly sad she can't interact with the others. Once again, if Jinta told her how she feels, I think it improve the situation a bit.

If it were that easy, wouldn't you think this phenomenon would have been discovered elsewhere ages ago? Or do you honestly believe Menma is the first of its kind? Like I said before, trying to use science to prove her existence is folly. For all we know, all the physical items she's been interacting with are only visible through the eyes of Jinta and us viewers. The door? Could have been the wind. Sense of weight? Maybe that's the extent of her ability to interact with the living world. It's not like she's dropping her actual physical weight on the person's shoulders. She. Is. Not. Real. Common sense doesn't apply.

Oh come on... what we've been shown so far leaves not doubt she can physically interact with the physcical world. Why do you wish to deny that so much? Honestly, I don't think they ever tried to mislead us about Menma's state of being. They made it clear in the very first episode, by having her knock the glass down.

Alright, how would you explain the muffins? Did somebody break into Jinta's house to make them?

What's more relevant, and frankly a brilliant move on their part, is that because we see Menma interact with various persons and items, she becomes more than a mere supernatural phenomenon. She becomes a real human character to us viewers, instead of a floating, gaseous, transparent, Casper-like substance that shouldn't have to abide by the laws of the physical world. It requires a level of suspension of disbelief, but to be honest, in a character-driven show, this style of execution works better than if she were able to move through walls, give off a glow and whatnot.

It's a matter of preference.

That I fully agree with. However, it still annoys me a little that each time Poppo asks her to do something, something conveniently happens to prevent her from attempting to do it...

Anyway, now that Jinta is starting to acknowledge the possiblity Menma is a ghost rather than a hallucination of his, he may start to do what I'd do (which is to make sure I'm not crazy).

Triple_R
2011-05-14, 10:02
I'd like to say that after thinking about it...

Poppo must have some major issues too.

I mean he's introduced as this happy go lucky carefree guy who hasn't changed since childhood (except getting bigger), and everyone else is so angsty that we think "oh finally someone who is normal."

But how normal is it for a highschool aged boy to be traveling the world and living in a "fort" down by the river?

I think that what Poppo is doing is a bit unusual, yeah. I don't doubt that Menma's death had a strong emotional impact on him as well.

However, I think he was designed to be relatively happy go lucky and carefree in order to balance out with the rest of the cast, and to help ensure that the whole anime doesn't feel as somber as a funeral parlor.

In that way, I think he has been tremendously useful in this anime.

CWW
2011-05-14, 10:03
Somehow, I feel that Tsuruko's been trying to show how she's felt for a long time toward Yukiatsu, only for him to ignore that because of his obsession with Menma. It's somewhat parallel to Jinta's situation, where his concern with Menma and his past have prevented him from seeing Anjou's ten-year waiting for him.
Naruko believes this, which we got to know during the conversation with Yukiatsu, and it certainly was a life changing period of Jinta's life, but I'm honestly not sure this is the case anymore. Naruko didn't reach out to Jinta in all those years. At the beginning of the series, he didn't even see her as a friend anymore. In all these years Jinta's understandably changed into a shut-in. He's so accustomed to his current lifestyle now that he has trouble breaking out of it. He even acknowledges that all he does every day is eat, game and sleep. The problem is he has zero motivation to change his lifestyle. His dad doesn't push him to go to school, his mother passed away, his friends abandoned him, who has to tell him to pick up his life? Jinta is partly to blame for his current situation, but not all of it. Naruko has been trying to get him to school again, but not very convincingly. At any rate, it's a case of too little too late. Don't get me wrong. I like Naruko as much as anyone else, but she's a classic case of tsundere.

Which might be the reason why only Jinta can see and talk with Menma. He's the only one out of the Super Busters whose life remained stagnant. The rest has, at least from their outward appearance in society, moved on.

Triple_R
2011-05-14, 10:15
As it pertains to "Why doesn't Jinta and/or Menma try to prove her presence to everybody else?", I think that the core answer is that this is the mostly private, personal story of six childhood friends, and not a story about ghosts, per se.

That being said, I do see (and somewhat share) the difficulty that some have as it pertains to Jinta and/or Menma not doing more to prove her presence.

Perhaps it's best to think that Jinta's Menma is an actual ghost, but that everybody deeply involved in this situation are too emotionally and/or psychological distraught right now to take a more clear-headed and scientific approach to proving if Jinta is seeing the actual ghost of Menma or not.

I'm fairly comfortable with that interpretation myself.

ThereminVox
2011-05-14, 10:52
Ah, and with that, I'm all caught up. Love the music, love the characters. I'm looking forward to watching the rest of the series in "real time".

Also, I'm kind of fine with "Because wizards, that's why" being the explanation for why Menma doesn't go all Poltergeist with the others to prove she exists. It's clearly not relevant to the story being told.

Guardian Enzo
2011-05-14, 10:58
I assumed Tsuruko took that hairpin and conserved it since, while Yukiatsu simply bought a new one. It was mentioned that he used to buy a lot of women's accessories.

Besides, so far we've seen the story from 3 POVs, Jintan, Anaru and Yukiatsu. I'm convinced they'll also show us how things went that day from Tsuruko and Poppo's perspectives.

Yep, agreed on both points.

cyth
2011-05-14, 11:23
Up until this point I believed Menma was just a presentation of everyone's memory. This I based on the presumption that all physical evidence of her presence were superficial given the circumstances. I still think so, but what changed with this episode was that Menma started questioning her existence. At first we were led to believe she's there because the gang needs to grant her wish, now we know she's there because she has a problem too. The series has given this aspect too much attention to simply back away, unless Okada Ma(ry

ipodi
2011-05-14, 11:52
Query- In the opening theme, are they talking about holding a cider in their hand, or holding a soda?

Earlier episodes said cider, but UTW's translation have it down as "soda." I am inclined to go with the latter since cider is an alcoholic beverage, but I like to get a confirmation from more knowledgeable posters here.

Haak
2011-05-14, 13:00
Hah, it seems they'll never let Yukiatsu over this, nor will Jintan forgive him for a while about raining him with tears.

I actually thought everyone (including Yukiatsu) were amazingly cool about it. Yukiatsu had to goad Tsukuro into calling him a cross-dresser and Anaru even apolagized for rubbing it in his face. I think Yuikiatsu has definitely redeemed himself and i just love how no one fully understands their feelings and are really struggling. What's more is that there's no one single messiah-like character that's coming to save the day. They all have to help each other out but each individual ultimately has to make the leap and come to terms with their problems themselves. This was another great episode.

Archon_Wing
2011-05-14, 14:33
I actually thought everyone (including Yukiatsu) were amazingly cool about it. Yukiatsu had to goad Tsukuro into calling him a cross-dresser and Anaru even apolagized for rubbing it in his face. I think Yuikiatsu has definitely redeemed himself and i just love how no one fully understands their feelings and are really struggling. What's more is that there's no one single messiah-like character that's coming to save the day. They all have to help each other out but each individual ultimately has to make the leap and come to terms with their problems themselves. This was another great episode.

Oh, but their first natural retort is always gonna be "crossdresser". :heh: It's always gonna be the butt of a joke for years to come.

Of course, it's just going to be playful ribbing. They do understand the situation so outing him really helps in the long run.

TakezoMusashi
2011-05-14, 16:09
Oh, but their first natural retort is always gonna be "crossdresser". :heh: It's always gonna be the butt of a joke for years to come.

Of course, it's just going to be playful ribbing. They do understand the situation so outing him really helps in the long run.

God knows fans of the show will never stop making fun of it.:heh:

.x.crii.x.
2011-05-14, 16:30
Lol, idk...I don't think they´ll call him crossdresser to make fun of him later on. xDD Idk, they don't seem like the type to use an old wound to laugh at later on. :I

pseudonhym
2011-05-15, 00:53
Tsuruko having another hairpin and trying it on feels like:
1) She really is envious/jealous of Meiko in the same way as Naruko is to Meiko;
or
2) Similar to Yukiatsu, she's really devasted on the tragedy that befell on Meiko.

Kinda feels like it's leaning on #1 though.

Raiga
2011-05-15, 02:54
Query- In the opening theme, are they talking about holding a cider in their hand, or holding a soda?

Earlier episodes said cider, but UTW's translation have it down as "soda." I am inclined to go with the latter since cider is an alcoholic beverage, but I like to get a confirmation from more knowledgeable posters here.

I don't read the OP/ED translations, but I heard "cider." Might be referring to the non-alcoholic kind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_cider).

Anyway, just caught up with this all today. Should have been asleep an hour ago but who cares! Couldn't stop watching. Love it.

guuchan
2011-05-15, 04:56
I'd like to say that after thinking about it...

Poppo must have some major issues too.

I mean he's introduced as this happy go lucky carefree guy who hasn't changed since childhood (except getting bigger), and everyone else is so angsty that we think "oh finally someone who is normal."

But how normal is it for a highschool aged boy to be traveling the world and living in a "fort" down by the river?

Do 16 year-olds really just work odd jobs and hop on planes to visit the world, all while living as a hobo? Is that really a common thing in Japan? 'Cause it's not that common over here in America.

How messed up must Poppo's family life be? Where is his family anyway? Something is not right here. Not right at all.

One thing I notice about Animesuki forum is people tend to over-compare anime characters to reallife people. No, I don't think it's a common thing in Japan either, but how can anime/games have different kinds of characters if they are all designed after the norm? As much as this show belongs to slice-of-life category, it still doesn't mean everything in it has to be "common" as in reallife. Poppo's setting kind of reminds me of Inaho Shin, the character voiced by Majima Junji (who got really hot lately in anime world, by the way), who has appeared in all the games of Memories Off series with its first game released in 1999. The character also quit high school and travels around the world. He travels to one country, back to Japan, work to earn enough money for his next trip, travel, back to Japan, etc. So Poppo is far from the first of his kind.

Query- In the opening theme, are they talking about holding a cider in their hand, or holding a soda?

Earlier episodes said cider, but UTW's translation have it down as "soda." I am inclined to go with the latter since cider is an alcoholic beverage, but I like to get a confirmation from more knowledgeable posters here.

It is cider (サイダー). And it's not apple cider kind of cider; cider in Japan is carbonated drink, so it's basically equivalent to soda/pop in America. Usually it means the fruit-flavored ones, such as the lemon soda Yukiatsu and Tsuruko drink during the scene where the lyrics is.

Solace
2011-05-15, 05:27
Do 16 year-olds really just work odd jobs and hop on planes to visit the world, all while living as a hobo? Is that really a common thing in Japan? 'Cause it's not that common over here in America.

Not common, but certainly plausible. It's a lifestyle choice. The odd jobs thing could just be a way for him to stay busy and/or connect with the communities he's visiting. For all we know he's secretly rich. Sort of like this guy (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=111091624).

erneiz_hyde
2011-05-15, 09:52
I now have a new way of enjoying this anime: making up a scenario on how Menma can know or do something, and in extent, Jinta. This anime really reminds me of umineko. So far, I see nothing that can falsify Menma scene=schrodinger box (in the umineko sense).

Tsuruko having another hairpin and trying it on feels like:
1) She really is envious/jealous of Meiko in the same way as Naruko is to Meiko;
or
2) Similar to Yukiatsu, she's really devasted on the tragedy that befell on Meiko.

Kinda feels like it's leaning on #1 though.
Or it could be she actually really likes Menma! :D Yuri field active! :p

I'm guessing the ending would be Menma disappearing when Jinta and the rest comes into peace with their pasts and start taking steps forward. I guess Menma's wish is something like this: "I don't want my death to hold my friends back. I want them to keep moving forward but still treasure their memories about me"

Btw I'm not sure why Menma cried at the end? Was she mad because Poppo tell her to "rest in peace"? Or was she really just frustrated because she really don't understand why she's there?

ipodi
2011-05-15, 10:52
It is cider (サイダー). And it's not apple cider kind of cider; cider in Japan is carbonated drink, so it's basically equivalent to soda/pop in America. Usually it means the fruit-flavored ones, such as the lemon soda Yukiatsu and Tsuruko drink during the scene where the lyrics is.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

Saturn Beaver
2011-05-15, 10:55
Btw I'm not sure why Menma cried at the end? Was she mad because Poppo tell her to "rest in peace"? Or was she really just frustrated because she really don't understand why she's there?

A little bit of both, I suppose. At first the instinct when you're a spirit is to 'rest in peace', but now Menma doesn't want that because it would mean that she will leave the Super Peace Busters gang. She (and Jintan as well) tried to not think about it for the time being and enjoy things the way it is, but Poppo forcing the issue makes her have to face the harsh reality again.

Which brings up the second point, that she doesn't know how she came there, and as such doesn't know for how long she can even stay that way. At first it's fine for her to get the group back together and see their interactions from the sidelines, which is similar to how it used to be it seems (even as a kid, she seems more interested in the 'group of friends' rather than the activity they're doing). However, now the inability to interact with them directly is getting on to her, highlighted when she can't do anything even when Poppo believes that she's there and is actively looking for her.

Of course, ideas such as writing and manipulating objects have been mentioned as an alternative for communication. As such, I personally hope that next episode they'll have Menma actually interacts with the rest of the group as opposed to not thinking of the aforementioned solutions and angst about it. After all, the obstacles are gone with the rest of the group pretty much believes that Menma is a ghost that only Jintan can see, and all parties seem to want to interact with each other. I'm not sure where this will brings us, but it'll be a welcome change than to keep this status quo for too long.

Deconstructor
2011-05-15, 10:55
I always save Anohana as the last anime episode I watch each week. It's the closer, the grand finale, the lord of cheese. And no, I don't think that last phrase actually means anything.

Many anime focus completely on one or two main characters. The camera is always directed at the hero. The spotlight shines brightly for only the hero and his love interest. Everyone else tags along because they are important to the plot, but they receive far less attention. Initially, the story focuses on Jinta and Menma. But after Jinta re-emerges from his house and reunites with his friends, the story expands to include them as well.

All six main characters have their own unique perspective. Any one of the six characters share complex and diverse relationships with the other five. For example, Anaru is in love with Jinta. But she's also somewhat jealous and yet somewhat in admiration of Menma. And Anaru wants to be friends with Tsuruko, even though they are indifferent to each other. This episode, Anaru's relationship with Yukiatsu is developed; they share a common trait of being in unrequited love.

If you draw all of their names in a circle, and connect all of their names with each other, you'll get a wonderful web of character connections. I truly enjoy it when I can talk about each and every one of these relationships, as if they were all equally interesting to me. And out of all the anime I've watched in my whole life, I can think of none threading the character web better than Anohana.

Episode 5 Rating: 9/10!

I've come to terms with the lack of emotional impact I've experienced these past two weeks since I realized had I marathoned this series, it would've been different. It's simply a byproduct of the week wait between each episode that it's hard for me to get fully engrossed, emotionally speaking, in each episode without something different to pull at my heart. There doesn't exist a show out there than can maintain that degree of emotional impact on a week in week out basis, and I should be fair to Ano Hana that I probably won't feel as emotional as episode 1 until it gets close to the end.

Overall though, I'm loving how well executed everything is and the characters continue to shine.

100% true for me as well. Episodes 1 and 2 pile on the sadness, but it's unreasonable to think every episode can be as emotionally moving. The full dramatic package includes more than the climax at which the viewers bawl their eyes out; it also includes the build-up, where our main characters develop their own identities and personalities through interacting with others. Certainly, Anohana excels at both aspects.

Pellissier
2011-05-15, 10:59
Btw I'm not sure why Menma cried at the end? Was she mad because Poppo tell her to "rest in peace"? Or was she really just frustrated because she really don't understand why she's there?
Because she feels totally impotent in the situation she's in. Poppo wanted to see her so badly and was calling her, but she couldn't be seen. No one except Jintan can see her, they even zoomed on the glass during that scene and there was no reflection of Menma.
She's desperate and frustrated for this, she doesn't know why she's there, why her friends can't see her and what's worse, she acknowledges that at the moment there's nothing she can do about it.

broken270
2011-05-15, 13:24
Jinta goes up to Yukiatsu, now caught in the Menma outfit. Yukiatsu releases all of his emotions onto Jinta, saying things like "of course, I am not okay," or "It was my fault this all happened." Yukiatsu cannot forget about the time he confessed his love to Menma and got rejected by her. Menma goes down and realizes what was going on with his mind. Menma tries to comfort him, even if it had to be Jinta to relay her words to him. Everyone else is still pretty shocked about all of this. Tsuruko seem to know about Yukiatsu's problem more than anyone else. Yukiatsu seems to have calmed down for now, after releasing all of his thoughts out to them like that. Tsuruko is shown to have some feelings for Yukiatsu, having the old hairpin that Yukiatsu was originally given to Menma and all. Trouble seems to be stirring in Jinta's house. Those two are starting to get waht happened a few hours ago into their heads. Why is he the only one who can see her. Why can't everyone else notice her. Jinta states that with the addition of Memna, his original steady lifestyle goes haywire and he does not know how to react to it. Neither does Menma.

The next day, Anaru is still in a daze about going out with her friends and all. Her friends are starting to catch on to her anxiety and uses her confusion against her to go out with them. Meanwhile, Tsuruko and Yukiatsu are at the train station. Yukiatsu wishes for her to act at the very least different from what she was in the past. Both caught her with her group of friends, and Yukiatsu takes leave to see what is going on. Good thing he did as well, or Anaru might be in a tight situation. Yukiatsu did manage to play hero, just not the one that Anaru thought about. Yukiatsu openly admits he is a narcissist; Anaru accidentally insults him with that. Anaru is caught off guard with Yukiatsu asking her out, but she still has some feelings toward Jinta. Even she does not know what her feelings are. Having lost a good friend and his mother, Jinta is probably as wrecked as anyone would thought he might be. Poppo comes into his house to eat and talks about Menma, saying that the reason she is here is because her wish was not fulfilled. Having her wish fulfilled may get her to go to heaven, but now Menma is starting to doubt her presence and who/what she is. She cannot make a shadow; she does not have a reflection. So, what is she. Jinta is getting upset about Poppo's ranting in wanting to help her despite not seeing her and tells him to stop. Jinta is now confse on what the heck is going on with his life.

DragoZERO
2011-05-15, 19:16
Excellent stuff here.

I don't see why Yukiatsu blames himself, but I guess we need more pieces to the puzzle to make a clear conclusion.

Haruka Tomatsu did awesome this ep, especially on that train.

I teared up at the end of this episode thanks to Menma crying and that ED song. That song really hits that soft spot in your heart. I hope we get a happier version at some point or something.

wtfATOM
2011-05-15, 19:20
Did anyone else wish that it was Jintan who saved anaru instead of yukiatsu?

DragoZERO
2011-05-15, 19:44
Did anyone else wish that it was Jintan who saved anaru instead of yukiatsu?
That's what I was hoping and expecting. Having Yukiatsu do it was a nice surprise. I know it should have been predictable since we saw him go to follow her, but I forgot all about that by that point. Shows what great writing we have here.

physics223
2011-05-15, 19:52
This is a kind of series one truly admires for being so good, but I can really say little about it other than it's awesome ... among other things (http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2011/05/ano-hana-4-and-5-waiting-and-transformation/).

Malkuth
2011-05-15, 20:16
Did anyone else wish that it was Jintan who saved anaru instead of yukiatsu?

Not really, if it was Jintan, she wouldn't be forced to confront her feelings about him, as well as how she ended up in the whole situation to begin with. They also needed to give Yukiatsu some redeeming quality, since just his realization of his short-comings wouldn't be enough to make him likeable.

wtfATOM
2011-05-15, 20:34
That's what I was hoping and expecting. Having Yukiatsu do it was a nice surprise. I know it should have been predictable since we saw him go to follow her, but I forgot all about that by that point. Shows what great writing we have here.

Yea it was definitely a surprise. I was hoping more of a anjou and jintan development though.

@Malkuth Yea that's true if Yukiatsu wasn't there, i'd still be hating on him.

darkmanure
2011-05-15, 20:40
Did anyone else wish that it was Jintan who saved anaru instead of yukiatsu?
It wouldn't fit the flow of this anime since Jinta has his own problems to deal with. He's still a shut in, at least he acknowledged it in this chapter. Would be weird to have Jinta traveling that far on a whim. I agree with the above post, Yukiatsu needed this moment to show his positive side of his character. To prove that he's not a douchebag.

wtfATOM
2011-05-15, 23:56
In the preview, doesn't anaru look kinda sad when she gives Tsuruko the letter?

Pocari_Sweat
2011-05-16, 00:03
This episode was pure win. Despite his initial arrogant and cocky personality, Yukiatsu redeemed himself by being the "saviour" to Anjou potentially getting date raped, as well as recognizing and accepting himself as flawed.

The whole "relationship/confession" talk at the train scene was handled with finesse. None of this "I had a crush on you for ages so please go out with me" nonsense that anime tends to overuse, but a straight "Hey, I'm not perfect and need some moral support and you are the same, so do you want to go out", which actually happens quite commonly in real life, followed by a straight denial and rejection as Yukiatsu read Anjou very well. I personally really liked the depth in it.

ipodi
2011-05-16, 00:25
Shouldn't be going after another guy's chick man. Bros before hoes (with apologies to Anaru, who is awesome.)

Malkuth
2011-05-16, 00:25
The whole "relationship/confession" talk at the train scene was handled with finesse. None of this "I had a crush on you for ages so please go out with me" nonsense that anime tends to overuse, but a straight "Hey, I'm not perfect and need some moral support and you are the same, so do you want to go out", which actually happens quite commonly in real life, followed by a straight denial and rejection as Yukiatsu read Anjou very well. I personally really liked the depth in it.

My impression was that Yukiatsu pretended the confession to force Anaru to seriously consider her own repressed feelings, as well as reconsider her choice of life-style... in a similar way that Tsuruko did for him by exposing his trickery.

Pocari_Sweat
2011-05-16, 00:42
My impression was that Yukiatsu pretended the confession to force Anaru to seriously consider her own repressed feelings, as well as reconsider her choice of life-style... in a similar way that Tsuruko did for him by exposing his trickery.

That's another good way of seeing it as well, and probably more the likely one now that you mention Tsuruko's conduct.

Deconstructor
2011-05-16, 01:57
Indeed, Yukiatsu pretending to like Anaru is quite likely. But, here's another possibility. Yukiatsu and Anaru share the common trait of unrequited love. In the complex love dodecahedron, they are the ones looking from the outside in. Logical Yukiatsu thinks about his options: His crush for life is dead, and Tsuruko seems to be keeping her distance (especially after Yukiatsu's recent revelation as Menma). So there's only one possibility left: Anaru. "Want to go out?" proposes the troubled, lost Yukiatsu. Meanwhile, Anaru is dealing with some peer pressure. With no signs of mutual attraction from Yadomi, Anaru starts falling back into her previous social role to find emotional solace. She hangs out with her "friends" at the karaoke bar, and nearly gets date-raped by some random dude sitting with them.

They both have major issues with their lives, both as a result of unrequited love. If one way love losers can cope with their problems is by comforting each other... then far be it from the viewers to judge Yukiatsu and Anaru. Better Anaru go out with a narcissistic cross-dresser than some guy who goes to sleep early to watch One Piece. (Have you no pride as an otaku?! Use caffeine pills, dood!!!) Their casual relationship could work out great, as Yukiatsu and Anaru don't actually love each other. They just need someone close, by their side...

I will now directly contradict myself by accusing them of escapism. Since Yukiatsu and Anaru can't be with their true loves, they have to settle for each other? What happened to the dream of never giving up hope, the dream of true love always winning out in the end? Maybe Anohana seeks to subvert these wishes and portray them as unrealistic. After all, Menma's death shattered the childhood dreams of the Super Peace Busters. Ouch... they all had a very hard time coming back to reality.

Actually, scratch what I just said above; I don't know what real love is. People getting together - not with those they love the most - but with those who understand them the most... kind of touching, in it's own rational, realistic type of way. Because Anaru and Yukiatsu have their problems rooted deeply in love, they can understand each other and be there to support one another. Hey, works for me.

I'll even speculate! Yukiatsu and Anaru will become a couple by the ending. :kisskiss:

Of course, Yukiatsu could be trolling me and sadistically exploiting Anaru for his own self-comfort. In the above case... man, you really do have issues.

This concludes my weekly Anohana post. You may now return to reading things you actually enjoy.

MeoTwister5
2011-05-16, 05:58
The Blame Game (http://meotwister5.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/ano-hana-ep5-the-blame-game/)

Enough has been said about Yukiatsu in this thread that helps vindicate him to some extent, but one thing that also struck me in this episode was Poppo's actions near the end.

Perhaps one of the bigger surprises in this episode was Poppo actions in Jinta’s house. His happy go lucky approach to life has made him a very different person to the usual sullen affects of his friends, but his almost desperate search for Menma and just as desperate desire to stick with Menma’s wish and to achieve it speaks volumes about his personality. So far much of what we’ve seen of him has been attempts to busy himself with other things and his use of humor when dealing with issues regarding Menma. At the end he seems to become a desperate man in search of something he has left behind in an entity he can;t even see, but still he attempts to force himself to believe in it. At this point it makes me believe that under that big funny mask lies someone who is still very much a kid at heart, and a very confused and direction-less kid at that. He comes off now as someone who has been rather listless and drifting without the guidance of his friends and especially Jinta and Menma. With both of these people barging back into his life he sees it both as a way to reconnect with his past, and to also reconnect with a friend who has passed on. Out of everyone perhaps he is the loneliest of them all, seeking Jinta and Menma and forcing himself to believe that she is there, just to eb able to be with his friends one more time.

applejuice
2011-05-16, 09:16
I said this right?

Yukiatsu is the best character, for no doubt. His gap-moeness is too good to be true.

Anaru follows him closely for awesome tsundere.

pagan poor
2011-05-16, 10:38
My impression was that Yukiatsu pretended the confession to force Anaru to seriously consider her own repressed feelings, as well as reconsider her choice of life-style... in a similar way that Tsuruko did for him by exposing his trickery.

I got out of that conversation was "Look at you, Anaru. You got yourself in that situation by your actions, and you're a virgin? Hell, why don't I be the one to be your first time, instead of some stranger." This was more for sarcasm as he just said it so matter of factly.

Malkuth
2011-05-16, 11:00
^^same thing, with different motivation.

But I really don't see this turning into an american love drama, where everyone sleeps with everyone, if for no other reason it's only 11 episodes, not 10 years long :heh:

Anyway, there is no love polygon here, the three guys loved Menma, and the two girls liked one guy (Anaru->Jintan, Tsuruko->Yukiatsu), and being kids with no experience in relationships it they see everything oh so complicated, and can not understand their own feeling, plus having their love interest/rival die confuses them even more.

pagan poor
2011-05-16, 11:18
^^same thing, with different motivation.

But I really don't see this turning into an american love drama, where everyone sleeps with everyone, if for no other reason it's only 11 episodes, not 10 years long :heh:

Anyway, there is no love polygon here, the three guys loved Menma, and the two girls liked one guy (Anaru->Jintan, Tsuruko->Yukiatsu), and being kids with no experience in relationships it they see everything oh so complicated, and can not understand their own feeling, plus having their love interest/rival die confuses them even more.

Oh, I agree with you for the most part. Just putting my own spin on things.

Also, this leads me to think about Menma's wish some more. Maybe she's there to figure out what her wish is. Seeing the emotional and psychological wreckage to her friends that her loss left, I think she'll formulate something from that.

Haak
2011-05-16, 12:36
Did anyone else wish that it was Jintan who saved anaru instead of yukiatsu?

I don't actually because I think the conversation afterwards made me like Yukiatsu a lot more.

Anh_Minh
2011-05-16, 13:41
I really don't see how Yukiatsu was even pretending to like her...

He just proposed to date. He didn't say he liked her. It was about moving on, it was about oneupmanship, maybe it was about potentially coming to like each other - but at no point was it "I love you, go out with me".

wtfATOM
2011-05-16, 14:25
Random question - What version is more accurate? I watched another version of the same episode and this one during the conversation, Yukiatsu said anaru was gorgeous and then she got flustered, while the other version he said it's painful to watch you . Do you guys know which one's more accurate?

guuchan
2011-05-16, 15:26
Random question - What version is more accurate? I watched another version of the same episode and this one during the conversation, Yukiatsu said she was gorgeous and then she got flustered, while the other version he said it's painful to watch you . Do you guys know which one's more accurate?

It would help if you'd given the rough timestamp of that line. ;)

I'm guessing it's the line at around 16:34, after Yukiatsu feeling good about himself:

「それにしても…かなりイタイなお前」

The first translation is just completely BS, while the second one is kind of closer with "itai" taken as "痛い", but still not quite right. The "イタイ" there is a modern term meaning something like pathetic, so the line should be "By the way... you were pretty pathetic there".

wtfATOM
2011-05-16, 18:57
It would help if you'd given the rough timestamp of that line. ;)

I'm guessing it's the line at around 16:34, after Yukiatsu feeling good about himself:

「それにしても…かなりイタイなお前」

The first translation is just completely BS, while the second one is kind of closer with "itai" taken as "痛い", but still not quite right. The "イタイ" there is a modern term meaning something like pathetic, so the line should be "By the way... you were pretty pathetic there".

Damnit. I guess the site im watching it on has bad translations.. I need to find a new one.

pagan poor
2011-05-17, 01:02
Damnit. I guess the site im watching it on has bad translations.. I need to find a new one.

I've had to see different translations of the show to find out what Yukiatsu actually meant. I should have just asked here instead. :)


Looks like Yadomi finally ends up in class

~Yami~
2011-05-17, 10:09
Yukiatsu is really a broken man inside..... the opening scene proved that.... that confession scene is really affect his life (ugh! I hope I won't be like him who still live in the past)

so right now there are three people who blamed themselves as Menma's 'killer'
I hate Yukiatsu but I need to thank him for saving Anaru.... XD

idiffer
2011-05-17, 11:21
while most will now like yukiatsu for saving anaru, i will still hate him for being a prick in non-life -and-death matters and hate anaru for being so weak. she couldn't even defend herself properly when yukiatsu confronted her about the crush on jinta. if she hangs out with snobby whores, then she could have at least picked something up from them, like the ability to not get flustered at first mention of love-themed topics...

Anh_Minh
2011-05-17, 14:53
Why would she need to "defend" herself? Is it wrong of her to maybe carry a torch? Does she need to lie about it?

wtfATOM
2011-05-17, 21:09
@ idiffer It's cause she thinks no one knows that she likes him she even pretends not to and Yukiatsu just says it like its the truth. alot of people in that situation would get flustered.

@ paganpoor yea i really dont wanna do that for the remainder of the episodes. I gotta find a more legit site...

Is it wrong to ask for a spot to watch with good translations?

risingstar3110
2011-05-17, 22:21
Seriously...

I can't really focus on the plot, until Jintan just get over his pathetic emo self and try to prove that Memma's ghost exist (or not)... He has been opening everyone wound and bloody hurt everyone. All these can simply be solved by proving Menma existence, which can't be any easier. And his bloody friends also must be idiots (sorry Poppo, i really like your personality, but you are one) to not suggest something so obvious and get it over with

The only way that i can focus on the storyline now is if i can turn my brain off, which i can't. So to me this series is a real frustration of the season

darkmanure
2011-05-17, 23:01
Proving her existence this early would be one of the most stupid decision for this series and they know better. This is a melodrama and it will be until the end, no easy button.

james0246
2011-05-18, 00:44
Late review.

Easily the weakest of the episode thus far, Episode 5 really lacks the emotional depth of the previous episodes (though it ends on a high note) and ends up feeling short and transitional. Chief among my complaints are the fact that Yukiatsu's dilemma is seemingly casually shuffled off to the side (the writers even make the whole occurrence a taboo subject to the friends, making it actually impossible to discuss (if your best friend, or at least a former best friend, started cross dressing (for whatever reason), wouldn't you have a few words to say on the matter? Instead, Jintan and Menma have nothing to say on the matter, and everything si seemingly explained away in one breif expository scene with Yuruko); and we almost get another Fractale quagmire by requiring a storyline where yet another female character is molested unnecessarily (Anaru is stupid, but is she really that stupid? And what happened to all the fire that she's had in previous episodes? She should have kneed the pervert in the balls, and then kicked him when he's down. Instead she had to be saved...And to add insult to injury, they almost ruined One Piece for me :)).

Additionally, a key problem, which has been growing for sometime, is the lack of coherency between the storylines, which results in bad pacing (the general transitions between scenes/characters was also annoying). Since the story has really opened up now to all 5(6) friends (well 3(4) of them at least), the time constraint is really becoming noticeable, as the writers have to juggle multiple intricate storylines simultaneously. Sadly, this results in a haphazard conclusion for Yukiatsu's obsession (as I briefly mentioned).

(Also of particular interest (for me at least) was the overwhelming bgm during the early quiet moment as Tsuruko explained Yukiatsu's obsession to the other friends; the music was simply overpowering for the scene if only because it was mixed too loud.)

That being said, the mystery of Tsuruko is still playing out nicely, and Jintan and Menma's development is going forward nicely (her cries of frustration at her ability (or should I say lack of ability) to accomplsih her goals, or even vocalize them, are quite heart felt; and Jintan's gradualy emergeance as a stabalizing force, even if he doesn't desire the role, is quite nice). Poppo also made a sudden interesting shift toward the extreme as he became frantic in his desire to help Menma (I smell angst on the horizon). So, the series still has plenty going on, I just hope the writers and directors have aired out some of the more problematic elements in the weeks ahead.

Malkuth
2011-05-18, 03:25
^ It's rare for me to disagree with every single point someone has made :heh:

OceanBlue
2011-05-18, 04:19
Chief among my complaints are the fact that Yukiatsu's dilemma is seemingly casually shuffled off to the side (the writers even make the whole occurrence a taboo subject to the friends, making it actually impossible to discuss (if your best friend, or at least a former best friend, started cross dressing (for whatever reason), wouldn't you have a few words to say on the matter? Instead, Jintan and Menma have nothing to say on the matter, and everything si seemingly explained away in one breif expository scene with Yuruko)
I don't really agree with this. The most important thing to keep in mind is that all of them are distant from Yukiatsu except for Tsuruko, and by their own volition. In that respect, their reactions seem more realistic. They bring the issue up when they're with each other, but they don't really think about it otherwise.

Jintan is definitely the type of person who wouldn't dwell on someone's issues at this point, seeing how dismissive he is of everyone else so far.

As for Tsuruko and Anaru, their reactions are definitely in-character. Tsuruko listens but doesn't give undue attention to it, and Anaru is awkward and doesn't know how to approach the subject. Not to mention that Yukiatsu was basically controlling their conversation.

We don't know anything about Poppo so far, since he doesn't really appear much. Menma's reaction is the strange one, seeing how she seems so proactive in interacting with the others, but she seemed bothered by her own issues this episode. It's still strange how she didn't pay it any mind, but I'd say she's the only strange one, and it's not too strange considering what she was brooding about.

Yukiatsu had the best reaction, in my opinion, and I feel as if it's exactly what I would've done if that happened to me. He acted normally in regular situations [I mean, what else can you do?], but was seeking a reaction from the people who knew because it was a big issue for him. He was expecting scorn, which explains how relaxed he became with Anaru, since she provided the reaction that Tsuruko didn't.

But I do agree that this was more of a transitory episode. That being said, I don't agree that this concludes Yukiatsu's issues. It's being slowly resolved, instead of all at once like what normally occurs in anime.

risingstar3110
2011-05-18, 05:22
Proving her existence this early would be one of the most stupid decision for this series and they know better. This is a melodrama and it will be until the end, no easy button.
Making their characters having an intelligence of 10 years old kid (over the existence of Menma) does not help either...

We probably all have to agree that the root of all these dramas coming from the stupidity of a character (Jin), and i can't stand that. My only other explanation is: Jintan actually an asshole, and he currently enjoy manipulating Menma existence to rampage over his friends emotion


Edit: oh wait, A-1 Pictures's original project. Now all of these (my apologize if you are a fan) stupidity is starting to make sense. One more episode for me then
Edit 2: on second thought, i should just drop it now....

erneiz_hyde
2011-05-18, 06:20
Seems like everyone prefers to believe that Jintan is an idiot rather than Menma actually doesn't exist.

Haak
2011-05-18, 06:55
I don't think it's possible to prove Menma's existence anyway. The rational approach would always be to believe there's a scientific explanation for anything Menma can do, regardless of whether you know it or not.

And as we can plainly see in the ending to this episode, Menma doesn't want to have to go through the misery of trying to prove she's there. It's horrifyingly furstrating for her.

And in any case, proving her existence won't solve anything anyway. If they all simply got together just because Menma's ghost is telling them to, that would be forcing the issue. It wouldn't solve anything. The problems are all still there.

And Jinta doesn't want to prove her existence because a part of him still thinks she's a hallucination. He's probably thinking that atleast he's sane enough to realise it. If he starts accepting her as reality and ends up being wrong, that's going to be a massive blow to his sanity.

And ofcourse it may be terrible that Jinta is so depressed all the time, but there are clear reasons for it. After suffering the death of his best friend he also had to endure the more drawn out process of his mum dying all whilst he was still a child. And his dad's incredibly passive approach to parenting hasn't helped matters either. It's no wonder he's a shut in.

VentAileron
2011-05-18, 08:49
Making their characters having an intelligence of 10 years old kid (over the existence of Menma) does not help either...

It's not a 10-year-old mentality to talk about the ghost of a deceased without questioning its existence. On the contrary, adults tend to do it a lot, especially the ones who have lost a close relative.

Talking about the deceased make people do strange things. Why else would people mourn? It's not as if the deceased can hear it, but are you sure? Maybe they can hear it. In either case, you will feel better yourself by talking about it.
The characters of the show are clearly broken by the death of one of their closest friends. Talking about it and pretending the ghost of said person had appeared can ease the pain and bring closure to that chapter.

There's also no rampaging over Jinta's friends either. I mean, ask yourself. What did they do up till now? Except coming together twice, they really haven't done much together. What did Jinta do up till now? It's not that he's forcing things on the others; he might have been the one who started with it all, but that was episode 2. After that, he got dragged into activities himself because of the others who wanted to fulfill Menma's wish, whatever that might be.

I still think Menma is indeed a hallucination by Jinta, but that doesn't make her presence less real.

@james0246
Your point seem to be solely based on that you expected the show to continue more on the Yukiatsu part. OceanBlue argued this greatly, so I will not repeat arguments. The only thing I have to add is that you've to consider if adding those scenes are actually worth it, or is that giving Yukiatsu too much screen-time?
I also don't see why you think there isn't a coherent storyline. Because of Jinta's actions, the group got together again and the old deep relationships between them start to resurface. It's those relationships that the series wants to slowly show us.
Transitions between characters are generally only annoying if the show focuses on one character for a very long time, but then suddenly jumps to another. This is generally not the case for AnoHana, because the jumping is frequent and focuses short. But I have to say that Anjou is getting a bit too much attention.

risingstar3110
2011-05-18, 09:31
I don't think it's possible to prove Menma's existence anyway. The rational approach would always be to believe there's a scientific explanation for anything Menma can do, regardless of whether you know it or not.
Poppo can tell Jintan to take up a set of card. Point it away from him, and tell him to ask Menma to read the cards in order

If Menma can't read it, then she shows that she has no ability to perceive, a.k.a Jintan hallucination. But if Memma can read it out and Jintan knowing which card is which without looking, then i will have to ask you about the scientific explanation for that? Psychic?

And as we can plainly see in the ending to this episode, Menma doesn't want to have to go through the misery of trying to prove she's there. It's horrifyingly furstrating for her.

And in any case, proving her existence won't solve anything anyway. If they all simply got together just because Menma's ghost is telling them to, that would be forcing the issue. It wouldn't solve anything. The problems are all still there.

And Jinta doesn't want to prove her existence because a part of him still thinks she's a hallucination. He's probably thinking that atleast he's sane enough to realise it. If he starts accepting her as reality and ends up being wrong, that's going to be a massive blow to his sanity.
And ofcourse it may be terrible that Jinta is so depressed all the time, but there are clear reasons for it. After suffering the death of his best friend he also had to endure the more drawn out process of his mum dying all whilst he was still a child. And his dad's incredibly passive approach to parenting hasn't helped matters either. It's no wonder he's a shut in.
Wanna bet? The huge knot of this anime to be untied will be whether Menma really exist or not. And it will solve at least half (if not all) of the issues that we have right now

And running around looking for your hallucination, or eating your hallucination's cake is an crazy act by itself. So i doubt if he hasn't accepted her yet


It's not a 10-year-old mentality to talk about the ghost of a deceased without questioning its existence. On the contrary, adults tend to do it a lot, especially the ones who have lost a close relative.

Talking about the deceased make people do strange things. Why else would people mourn? It's not as if the deceased can hear it, but are you sure? Maybe they can hear it. In either case, you will feel better yourself by talking about it.
The characters of the show are clearly broken by the death of one of their closest friends. Talking about it and pretending the ghost of said person had appeared can ease the pain and bring closure to that chapter.
I'm pretty sure mourning the dead are quite different with having a ghost "haunting" yourself day in day out...

There's also no rampaging over Jinta's friends either. I mean, ask yourself. What did they do up till now? Except coming together twice, they really haven't done much together. What did Jinta do up till now? It's not that he's forcing things on the others; he might have been the one who started with it all, but that was episode 2. After that, he got dragged into activities himself because of the others who wanted to fulfill Menma's wish, whatever that might be.

I still think Menma is indeed a hallucination by Jinta, but that doesn't make her presence less real.
It's not what he did, but what he didn't do

VentAileron
2011-05-18, 09:35
I'm pretty sure mourning the dead are quite different with having a ghost "haunting" yourself day in day out...

Please elaborate.

risingstar3110
2011-05-18, 09:43
Please elaborate.
At least a billion people (Eastern Asia culture) would mourn a dear relative daily or sometime in their life. However, having a ghost (or hallucination) haunting you like Menma did, would be either an extraordinary event by itself, or a symptom that you are really sick in your head and should seeking for help

VentAileron
2011-05-18, 09:56
And in either cases, that makes the show lose credibility in your eyes?

Wait, you know what, let's do this through PM. Don't feel like posting short questions dedicated to one person.

TinyRedLeaf
2011-05-18, 10:05
Please elaborate.

Two words: Cross Game.

Let me add my voice to those of james0246 and risingstar3110. From the very beginning, I've had serious problems with the set-up of this particular drama, hinging as it does on an overly contrived plot device. I've already brought up the issue long ago in the generic thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3582080#post3582080). Having a walking, talking ghost be the main driver of all the drama completely kills my ability to suspend disbelief, and hence hampers my ability to enjoy the show.

The already overwrought drama then takes another turn for the incredible with a character regressing to a state of cross-dressing in order to relive memories of a dead friend. In the context of this show, it's completely abnormal and uncalled for and that's why, like james0246, I find it difficult to accept how everyone seems to be brushing aside the incident as an embarrassment they no longer want to talk about.

Death is supposed to be the major driver of all this show's angst, and as I've said before, death is most effective, dramatically, with the absence of the departed character. Instead, what I see is a somewhat older girl (real or not real, the debate continues on and on) milking audience sympathy every episode by crying at the slightest opportunity. It gets old, not to mention increasingly annoying.

Of course, I can accept that it's all just me. Something about this show just doesn't rub me in the right way, even though so many people seem to adore it. Taking a broader view, the one biggest thing I've noticed this season is how much my viewing tastes have changed with respect to the larger AnimeSuki community. I'm not sure what to make of it any more.

deadite
2011-05-18, 10:14
LOL in your opinion.

VentAileron
2011-05-18, 10:39
Taking a broader view, the one biggest thing I've noticed this season is how much my viewing tastes have changed with respect to the larger AnimeSuki community. I'm not sure what to make of it any more.

I also don't see why you should be bothered by that. :rolleyes: Doesn't people like a unique taste and vomit at mainstream?

I agree with you that the reason Yukiatsu would cross-dress completely escapes me. But I've no problems agreeing with others that the friends just don't feel like talking about it, I mean, what is there to talk about? Everything that needed to be said had been said the instant the truth came to light. Also, if you find the event fundamentally not fitting inside the show, wouldn't you naturally feel better if it was dropped just as fast as it came? Since there is no point justifying it.

Having Menma physically appear on screen is indeed a way to emphasize the loss and raise sympathy among the audience. The show's emotional impact is almost solely based on that. You've to remember though that Menma's ghost isn't the real thing; she can only effectively communicate with Jinta. Episode 5's ending reminds us on that. Then again, Menma is indeed a very weak character that apparently only has one trait and that's 'naturally adorable', which is indeed quite annoying at times.

Your opinion seems to rest heavily on that you want your drama to be believable and resemble reality as much as possible. I will not argue about that, because it's a fundamental acceptance issue.

PS: I've no idea what you want to say with 'Cross Game'.

MeoTwister5
2011-05-18, 11:01
I also don't see why you should be bothered by that. :rolleyes: Doesn't people like a unique taste and vomit at mainstream?

I agree with you that the reason Yukiatsu would cross-dress completely escapes me. But I've no problems agreeing with others that the friends just don't feel like talking about it, I mean, what is there to talk about? Everything that needed to be said had been said the instant the truth came to light. Also, if you find the event fundamentally not fitting inside the show, wouldn't you naturally feel better if it was dropped just as fast as it came? Since there is no point justifying it.

Having Menma physically appear on screen is indeed a way to emphasize the loss and raise sympathy among the audience. The show's emotional impact is almost solely based on that. You've to remember though that Menma's ghost isn't the real thing; she can only effectively communicate with Jinta. Episode 5's ending reminds us on that. Then again, Menma is indeed a very weak character that apparently only has one trait and that's 'naturally adorable', which is indeed quite annoying at times.

Your opinion seems to rest heavily on that you want your drama to be believable and resemble reality as much as possible. I will not argue about that, because it's a fundamental acceptance issue.

PS: I've no idea what you want to say with 'Cross Game'.

Cross Game uses a very similar premise, except it doesn't use having the actual spiritual representation of the dead being present to keep the weight of the event within the hearts and minds of the characters.

I would argue that AnoHana and Cross Game while using the same premise, are two very different shows in this sense.

BetoJR
2011-05-18, 11:12
And thank God for that, since we get two very different kinds of enjoyment from both - if we're so inclined.

Pellissier
2011-05-18, 11:13
I would argue that AnoHana and Cross Game while using the same premise, are two very different shows in this sense.
I agree, they're impressively similar in the first episode, but from there onwards they definitely part their ways. Other than the dead person being or not being there, another main difference lies in the characters' behaviours.
In Cross Game, while still mourning their loss, the characters do move on since the beginning and try to live their lives as much normally as they can. In AnoHana instead we have deeply wounded characters that seem to be right in the middle of moving on (perhaps the final goal of the series) and are suffering a lot in the process. So yes, the two series are different imho.

TinyRedLeaf
2011-05-18, 11:20
I wouldn't mind the difference so much if the supernatural aspect of the show was somehow more subliminal (the way "ghosts" were represented in the VR world of Dennou Coil (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=6278), for example), instead of being bluntly thrust into my face in this fashion. Ghosts may or may not be a figment of imagination, but the way Menma is presented in this show effectively eliminates all ambiguity, and hence serves only to raise my incredulity.

For a show that everyone is praising for its "realism", I completely fail to see how it could claim to be "realistic" when its key plot device defies all reality.

And that, in the main, is my major beef with AnoHana. To me, it's just not emotionally "honest", relying instead on highly contrived devices to draw and hold attention.

MeoTwister5
2011-05-18, 11:22
Yeah. While Cross Game is about characters who have essentially moved on with their lives and just trying to fulfill the last known final wish of the dead, AnoHana is about characters whose lives had stopped living on that day and trying desperately to escape the vortex they're in with the help of said character's spirit no less.

I wouldn't mind the difference so much if the supernatural aspect of the show was somehow more subliminal (the way "ghosts" were represented in the VR world of Dennou Coil, for example), instead of being bluntly thrust into my face in this fashion. Ghosts may or may not be a figment of imagination, but the way Menma is presented in this show effectively eliminates all ambiguity, and hence serves to only raise my incredulity.

For a show that everyone is praising for its "realism", I completely fail to see how it could claim to be "realistic" when its key plot device defies all reality.

And that, in the main, is my major beef with AnoHana. To me, it's just not dramatically "honest" at all, relying on highly contrived devices to draw and hold attention.

The realism being praised for the show is mostly for the characters, their psych profiles and their states of grief, and not really the spiritual aspect. Even if you remove that or make it into a more realistic approach as opposed to a wandering ghost, the believability lies in the character's coping with their grief rather than them (or Jinta) coping with seeing an apparition of the dead every waking moment.

TinyRedLeaf
2011-05-18, 11:28
The realism being praised for the show is mostly for the characters, their psych profiles and their states of grief, and not really the spiritual aspect. Even if you remove that or make it into a more realistic approach as opposed to a wandering ghost, the believability lies in the character's coping with their grief rather than them (or Jinta) coping with seeing an apparition of the dead every waking moment.

And why the heck do they need a ghost, of all things, to kick their butts out of moping? How is having a ghost being the key driver of all the action "realistic"?

Well, it's not really important, because we're arguing about subjective opinions and different expectations in the end, and there is of course no end to such argument. Suffice to say that AnoHana just isn't something I particularly enjoy at this stage.

BetoJR
2011-05-18, 11:30
The realism being praised for the show is mostly for the characters, their psych profiles and their states of grief, and not really the spiritual aspect. Even if you remove that or make it into a more realistic approach as opposed to a wandering ghost, the believability lies in the character's coping with their grief rather than them (or Jinta) coping with seeing an apparition of the dead every waking moment.
I couldn't agree more. :D
Nevertheless, if the "supernatural" aspect bothers some, it may or may not prove the bane of the series for them - I mean, it's not like we've had any actual conclusive evidence as to what exactly, Menma is, now have we?
Maybe those people would be vindicated later on.

Who knows?

Haak
2011-05-18, 12:07
Poppo can tell Jintan to take up a set of card. Point it away from him, and tell him to ask Menma to read the cards in order

If Menma can't read it, then she shows that she has no ability to perceive, a.k.a Jintan hallucination. But if Memma can read it out and Jintan knowing which card is which without looking, then i will have to ask you about the scientific explanation for that? Psychic?

You need to watch more Derren Brown. Like I said, even if you can't explain it scientifically, it's still more rational to believe there's some trick going on rather than believing in the supernatural, which only raises more questions than it solves.


Wanna bet? The huge knot of this anime to be untied will be whether Menma really exist or not. And it will solve at least half (if not all) of the issues that we have right now

And running around looking for your hallucination, or eating your hallucination's cake is an crazy act by itself. So i doubt if he hasn't accepted her yet

What will Menma's existence really solve? I don't see how it solves any of the issues that the characters currently face. Did Menma's existence alone solve Jintan's shut in personality?

I said a part of him still thinks she's a hallucination. He's obviously mixed on it in ways even he doesn't fully understand. And Jintan didn't want to run around looking for a hallucination. The others did because they thought it was an actual ghost. Eating a hallucinations cake is crazy but like I said, Jintan probably feels that atleast a little reassured that he knows he's hallucinating. He's accepted her to a degree on a level that he isn't even fully aware of, but he hasn't accepted her completely. Accepting her completely would be taking a huge risk that he doesn't want to make. And it's only natural that he's going to be pessimistic about his odds.

CWW
2011-05-18, 13:23
Cross Game uses a very similar premise, except it doesn't use having the actual spiritual representation of the dead being present to keep the weight of the event within the hearts and minds of the characters.
Err... Akane?

While she's not a ghost, she is in a sense a spiritual representation of Wakabe serving as a catalyst. It requires a level of suspension of disbelief just the same. As much as I love Cross Game, it's kind of silly to label any anime as realistic.

Anh_Minh
2011-05-18, 13:24
You need to watch more Derren Brown. Like I said, even if you can't explain it scientifically, it's still more rational to believe there's some trick going on rather than believing in the supernatural, which only raises more questions than it solves.

Controlled experiments. Sure, if you're so inclined, you can always come up with alternative explanations. Even if they have to become progressively sillier as evidence piles up. But really, do the Busters look like they're that reticent to believe in Menma's ghost?


What will Menma's existence really solve? I don't see how it solves any of the issues that the characters currently face. Did Menma's existence alone solve Jintan's shut in personality?

Well, it would make a rather large difference on whether he should get himself checked into a hospital or not...

Reckoner
2011-05-18, 14:10
And why the heck do they need a ghost, of all things, to kick their butts out of moping? How is having a ghost being the key driver of all the action "realistic"?

Well, it's not really important, because we're arguing about subjective opinions and different expectations in the end, and there is of course no end to such argument. Suffice to say that AnoHana just isn't something I particularly enjoy at this stage.

While I acknowledge that I also share a tiny distaste with Memma's actions in this anime, I think it's silly to complain about something they tried to throw in your face from the beginning (At this point that is). I think that was part of the brilliance of the writing. From the start they blatantly showed you Memma, and confirmed she was dead rather fast, while she's running around Jintan this whole time. The story basically said, if you don't like this, this might not be for you.

There was no running around the issue. The anime never pretended to be an absolute capture of reality. Of course, how could it be if you have some supernatural entity walking around you like that? How many groups of friends such as these in the show ever even end up talking and making up with each other in some ways?

Of course I keep mentioning how interpretation of this show changes depending on whether Memma is a hallucination or a ghost, but nonetheless, the end goal of the show is reuniting the group of friends and moving on.

A little bit of use of fairy tale magic shouldn't take anything away from that unless you saw the whole thing as completely realistic from the start.

Granted, I think you seem to be arguing that this would be more poignant to you if the characters came to these solutions on their own. But if Memma is an hallucination of Jintan, isn't this the case then? That's why I said the interpretation matters and why I prefer than Memma really isn't a ghost.

guuchan
2011-05-18, 14:51
Wanna bet? The huge knot of this anime to be untied will be whether Menma really exist or not. And it will solve at least half (if not all) of the issues that we have right now

I'm so taking you on (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3602812&postcount=93).

And why the heck do they need a ghost, of all things, to kick their butts out of moping? How is having a ghost being the key driver of all the action "realistic"?

No, this is not a reality show (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3613083&postcount=113). But then, I don't find anything unrealistic really so far. It's definitely not unrealistic if Menma is a hallucination, and it's not unrealistic either if Menma turns out to be a real ghost. As I said before, what is a ghost anyway (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3602055#post3602055)?

idiffer
2011-05-18, 17:14
Two words: Cross Game.

Let me add my voice to those of james0246 and risingstar3110. From the very beginning, I've had serious problems with the set-up of this particular drama, hinging as it does on an overly contrived plot device. I've already brought up the issue long ago in the generic thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3582080#post3582080). Having a walking, talking ghost be the main driver of all the drama completely kills my ability to suspend disbelief, and hence hampers my ability to enjoy the show.

The already overwrought drama then takes another turn for the incredible with a character regressing to a state of cross-dressing in order to relive memories of a dead friend. In the context of this show, it's completely abnormal and uncalled for and that's why, like james0246, I find it difficult to accept how everyone seems to be brushing aside the incident as an embarrassment they no longer want to talk about.

Death is supposed to be the major driver of all this show's angst, and as I've said before, death is most effective, dramatically, with the absence of the departed character. Instead, what I see is a somewhat older girl (real or not real, the debate continues on and on) milking audience sympathy every episode by crying at the slightest opportunity. It gets old, not to mention increasingly annoying.

Of course, I can accept that it's all just me. Something about this show just doesn't rub me in the right way, even though so many people seem to adore it. Taking a broader view, the one biggest thing I've noticed this season is how much my viewing tastes have changed with respect to the larger AnimeSuki community. I'm not sure what to make of it any more.

as if you read my mind. EXACT same thoughts. a cross dresser ex-friend is bound to get you to ask SOME questions at least. it's like the anime is trying to surprise us for the hell of surprising. of course it's better than what i was expecting - a scene where they all cry, smile and say it's all okay, then yukiatsu stops crossdressing. friendship = magic, yeah. actually they did the same thing while avoiding the drama. yukiatsu said "i was able to stop thanks to you" to the glasses cold girl. so...they caught him in the act and thats all it took? yeah right. and noone in anime ever suggests to go to a shrink. i wonder why...as someone said - "there is a fine line between feeling sorry for a character and feeling that he/she should be in a mental facility".
and why is everyone still doubting that menma is a ghost? we see her withought jinta being anywhere near her.

ipodi
2011-05-18, 18:14
so...they caught him in the act and thats all it took? yeah right. and noone in anime ever suggests to go to a shrink. i wonder why...as someone said - "there is a fine line between feeling sorry for a character and feeling that he/she should be in a mental facility".

Whatever the reasons that motivate Yukiatsu to dress up as Menma, either as a way to deal with his guilt, or to get people to forget about her, the act itself is not one that would require him to seek professional help- at least not in America. Yukiatsu's public life is not being affected by his cross-dressing. He continues to function in the society. The fact that no one is asking him to see professional should not be taken as one of the problems that make the series unrealistic to some viewers.

In any case, it has become increasingly difficult for me to grasp the complaints over "realism." This series is realistic in its portrayal of how people react to the losses of closed ones, to their growing pains, and their angst. One might enjoy this series more by focusing more on how the characters interact with each other and dealing with their past.

risingstar3110
2011-05-18, 23:40
I'm so taking you on (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3602812&postcount=93).
Are you sure? 0_o
Most of your points (and assumption) there also surround whether Menma really exist or not....

TinyRedLeaf
2011-05-19, 02:14
No, this is not a reality show (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3613083&postcount=113). But then, I don't find anything unrealistic really so far. It's definitely not unrealistic if Menma is a hallucination, and it's not unrealistic either if Menma turns out to be a real ghost. As I said before, what is a ghost anyway (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3602055#post3602055)?
Realism is not about being real.

Realism (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/realism_1) (noun)
...a way of thinking and acting based on the facts of a situation and what appears to be possible, rather than on hopes for things which are unlikely to happen.

The key concern in any work of fiction is plausibility. Without establishing a plot that is plausible, suspension of disbelief becomes that much harder and that, in turn, makes it difficult for viewers/readers to enjoy the fiction, particularly fiction that seeks to be "realistic" rather than "fantastic".

And, pardon me, I just find it incredibly implausible for an otherwise normal guy to regress into cross-dressing just because he misses a dead friend terribly. It's the kind of plot device that works only within the sphere of anime. If I were to show AnoHana to viewers who are unfamiliar with anime, I am 99% certain that Yukiatsu's predicament would draw far more WTFs than sombre understanding.

That's a problem I notice I frequently encounter with Mari Okada's screenplays. In True Tears, she threw in the trite device of sibling incest, both as a red herring and as an incredibly implausible plot development to drive a wedge between a pair of characters. However, within the anime community, such devices are easier to digest, because it happens so frequently that fans have long since learnt to shrug it off, accepting it as normal.

To me, her works seem to suggest that she lacks sufficient insight on real human emotions and predicaments, and therefore relies on tropes to carry her stories. It's fine to me if that's what fans in general want. Hell, why would I want to convince anyone to dislike what they enjoy?

But, by the same token, don't turn around and try to convince me that any of such tropes are "realistic". They just aren't, not within the context of this particular drama, because there simply has not been enough development to explain how it could have taken such a drastic turn.


In any case, it has become increasingly difficult for me to grasp the complaints over "realism." This series is realistic in its portrayal of how people react to the losses of closed ones, to their growing pains, and their angst. One might enjoy this series more by focusing more on how the characters interact with each other and dealing with their past.
And the major problem for me is that Menma the ghost is an incredibly annoying distraction from the so-called "realism" displayed by the rest of the cast.

Menma is an actual entity instead of a haunting memory. Her very presence in every episode saps attention away from far more interesting developments, such as revelations of how Anaru is growing as a character, even as Jintan remains pathetically stuck in a hikkikomori rut (let's be honest, he hasn't grown much since the beginning of the series).

If Menma were a stronger character, I may not have minded as much. But as she is at the moment, she inspires sympathy but not empathy. To me, she's like pretty wallpaper. She's cute, sure, but that's about all we can say about her right now. She's there to tug at heartstrings, effectively so, but there's little we have seen about her to allow us to understand why she is the way she is and how she intends to move on. That draws tears, true, but it most definitely does not inspire understanding, at least not for me.

Of course, I would reiterate that I fully understand that it's all subjective. That said, I would appreciate if people don't brush off valid criticism as a simple refusal to suspend disbelief. How well a viewer is able to do that depends as much on the storyteller as it does on the viewer managing his own expectations.

cyth
2011-05-19, 02:52
To me, her works seem to suggest that she lacks sufficient insight on real human emotions and predicaments, and therefore relies on tropes to carry her stories. It's fine to me if that's what fans in general want. Hell, why would I want to convince anyone to dislike what they enjoy?

But, by the same token, don't turn around and try to convince me that any of such tropes are "realistic". They just aren't, not within the context of this particular drama, because there simply has not been enough development to explain how it could have taken such a drastic turn.I agree. The way the story is set up is clearly manipulative and a far cry from realistic circumstance. I find it implausible that anyone from this little group of friends hasn't been able to move on after so many years. Let's be clear on this, AnoHana is set up as wish fulfillment for otaku with darkness in their hearts because it tugs at the possibility that their peers who appear to have moved on to greater goals in life are still stuck in that same emotional rut as the rest of them.

deadite
2011-05-19, 02:56
So the hate bandwagon has arrived huh? I guess no show is exempt.... It just another "the show is not going the way I want it to and not conforming to my views so It must be flaw" school of thought.

cyth
2011-05-19, 03:15
The show doesn't have to be realistic to be enjoyable. Personally, I love making fun of all these broken characters, especially Poppo. :) However, based on that, I don't think it's deserving of the praise it's got so far.

Reckoner
2011-05-19, 04:09
So the hate bandwagon has arrived huh? I guess no show is exempt.... It just another "the show is not going the way I want it to and not conforming to my views so It must be flaw" school of thought.

Should practice reading comprehension, because clearly you have very little of it.

And, pardon me, I just find it incredibly implausible for an otherwise normal guy to regress into cross-dressing just because he misses a dead friend terribly. It's the kind of plot device that works only within the sphere of anime. If I were to show AnoHana to viewers who are unfamiliar with anime, I am 99% certain that Yukiatsu's predicament would draw far more WTFs than sombre understanding.

I'm pretty sure most people here thought "wtf" with Yukiatsu's behavior. Both the posters and Yukiatsu in the show himself, stated that he's sick in the head. If you're saying that you don't find it plausible that someone can be sick in the head for something like this then well, there's not much to say. But while people expresses sympathy for him because of his inability to move one, I don't think anyone here thought that cross dressing was an understandable way to cope with it. It was played up to shock value. Some weren't bothered by it, but obviously you were. So it simply didn't work for you, and I respect that.

That's a problem I notice I frequently encounter with Mari Okada's screenplays. In True Tears, she threw in the trite device of sibling incest, both as a red herring and as an incredibly implausible plot development to drive a wedge between a pair of characters. However, within the anime community, such devices are easier to digest, because it happens so frequently that fans have long since learnt to shrug it off, accepting it as normal.

To me, her works seem to suggest that she lacks sufficient insight on real human emotions and predicaments, and therefore relies on tropes to carry her stories. It's fine to me if that's what fans in general want. Hell, why would I want to convince anyone to dislike what they enjoy?

I guess it's a matter of viewpoint, but I often find her scripts not very reliant on the usual tropes and overwrought melodrama, so it's why I tend to enjoy some of her works. Ano Hana specifically manages to play very well on the right chords of nostalgia for many people in the audience, and it's the reason people were able to be so emotionally attached to the characters from the getgo in episode 1. To me, that demonstrates a nice understanding of human emotions.

But, by the same token, don't turn around and try to convince me that any of such tropes are "realistic". They just aren't, not within the context of this particular drama, because there simply has not been enough development to explain how it could have taken such a drastic turn.

Forgive me but could you clarify which specific tropes in Ano Hana bother you besides Yukiatsu's cross dressing and perhaps Memma in general?

And the major problem for me is that Menma the ghost is an incredibly annoying distraction from the so-called "realism" displayed by the rest of the cast.

Menma is an actual entity instead of a haunting memory. Her very presence in every episode saps attention away from far more interesting developments, such as revelations of how Anaru is growing as a character, even as Jintan remains pathetically stuck in a hikkikomori rut (let's be honest, he hasn't grown much since the beginning of the series).

If Menma were a stronger character, I may not have minded as much. But as she is at the moment, she inspires sympathy but not empathy. To me, she's like pretty wallpaper. She's cute, sure, but that's about all we can say about her right now. She's there to tug at heartstrings, effectively so, but there's little we have seen about her to allow us to understand why she is the way she is and how she intends to move on. That draws tears, true, but it most definitely does not inspire understanding, at least not for me.

I'd have to agree with this actually. It's the main flaw of this anime, and why I can't see it in any way, perfect.

Of course, I would reiterate that I fully understand that it's all subjective. That said, I would appreciate if people don't brush off valid criticism as a simple refusal to suspend disbelief. How well a viewer is able to do that depends as much on the storyteller as it does on the viewer managing his own expectations.

I certainly hope no one does. I think most of what you are saying is perfectly fair.

I agree. The way the story is set up is clearly manipulative and a far cry from realistic circumstance. I find it implausible that anyone from this little group of friends hasn't been able to move on after so many years. Let's be clear on this, AnoHana is set up as wish fulfillment for otaku with darkness in their hearts because it tugs at the possibility that their peers who appear to have moved on to greater goals in life are still stuck in that same emotional rut as the rest of them.

I'm sure you may not find it necessarily relateable, but there is an error you've made here. First, what do you define as "moving on?" When does a person "move on?" Is it simply, not letting interrupt you living life? Is it to not let it bear any weight on your mind? I'm sorry, but if losing a dear friend doesn't bear any weight on someone's mind, then that is something I find implausible. I n regards to continuing ot live life? Tsuruko, Anaru, Yukiatsu, Poppo have all done just that. It's only Jintan who has let his life completely slide away.

What I find especially disagreeable here are your insinuations that this is some otaku wish fulfillment. Maybe I missed it, but is this some sort of harem anime :rolleyes:? Get real here.

Growing apart from your friends earlier in your life is something that MANY people can relate to. It is not limited to Otakus. It certainly manipulates the audience into nostalgia, but that isn't a bad thing. That makes it all the more relateable for some people. How many people out there have ever felt disappointed about past friendships got awry?

Sure, you might be able to call this anime some sort of wish fulfillment. A desire to go back to how things once were for people. A fairy tale reunion of sorts. But if you're seriously going to sit here and tell me that this only applies to Otakus, then that's simply ludicrous.

guuchan
2011-05-19, 04:12
Are you sure? 0_o
Most of your points (and assumption) there also surround whether Menma really exist or not....

Eh, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that Menma being a hallucination or ghost didn't matter anymore in my conclusion there, and I even speculated that there would possibly be no revealing of the answer at the end of the show.

Realism is not about being real.

Realism (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/realism_1) (noun)
...a way of thinking and acting based on the facts of a situation and what appears to be possible, rather than on hopes for things which are unlikely to happen.

The key concern in any work of fiction is plausibility. Without establishing a plot that is plausible, suspension of disbelief becomes that much harder and that, in turn, makes it difficult for viewers/readers to enjoy the fiction, particularly fiction that seeks to be "realistic" rather than "fantastic".

And, pardon me, I just find it incredibly implausible for an otherwise normal guy to regress into cross-dressing just because he misses a dead friend terribly. It's the kind of plot device that works only within the sphere of anime. If I were to show AnoHana to viewers who are unfamiliar with anime, I am 99% certain that Yukiatsu's predicament would draw far more WTFs than sombre understanding.

I agree. The way the story is set up is clearly manipulative and a far cry from realistic circumstance. I find it implausible that anyone from this little group of friends hasn't been able to move on after so many years. Let's be clear on this, AnoHana is set up as wish fulfillment for otaku with darkness in their hearts because it tugs at the possibility that their peers who appear to have moved on to greater goals in life are still stuck in that same emotional rut as the rest of them.

"Implausible". Apparently friendship doesn't work the same way for you, so don't stereotype yourself now. As I mentioned in my first post of this show (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3593549&postcount=596), I also had a close friend among a group of friends who passed away, a couple years ago. Me and another friend visit his grave at least 2-3 times every year, and it is still ongoing, even though that other friend has already married a year ago. Seeing that we are all guys, I'd imagine the feelings could be more complicated if that friend were a girl. Why do you think we're doing that? Because we did't just move on in the sense that "oh, he's dead, okay. Just another person disappeared from this world". We moved on in lives alright, as the majority of the characters in Anohana did, but our feelings didn't just "move on". That deceased friend will always be with us - in our thoughts, in our conversation, in our daily lives.

Now, is crossdressing as the deceased friend going a bit too far? Is seeing a hallucination of your deceased friend a bit too much (let's just assume she's a hallucination here for argument's sake)? Maybe. But, sreaming out loud for God's sake, this is an anime. This is a drama. We have seen way more unrealistic stuff in other animes, we have seen way more dramatic elements in other dramas, so what is up with this talk about realism? What is realism to you anyway? Something that you have to have experienced, something that you have to be feeling?

As for Memna's setting, my comment so far is: she's acting like her age when she died alright. Could the character be better designed? Maybe. But I definitely wouldn't want to see her appearing all mature, i.e. being a mature character guiding her friends. Now that would be bad. Her appearance alone has already served the purpose, it's up to the living characters to figure out the rest themselves.

TinyRedLeaf
2011-05-19, 04:31
"Implausible". Apparently friendship doesn't work the same way for you, so don't stereotype yourself now. As I mentioned in my first post of this show (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3593549&postcount=596), I also had a close friend among a group of friends who passed away, a couple years ago.

Are we going to reduce this to a sob story, trading mutual woe-is-me experiences to justify our points of view?

I lost my father, in my early 20s, when I was still in university, just as our relationship as father and son was turning for the better. I carry regrets that will stay with me for as long as I live.

So... don't go around dissing people, thinking they have not experienced as much "pain" as you do. That said, my condolences, of course.


Now, is crossdressing as the deceased friend going a bit too far? Is seeing a hallucination of your deceased friend a bit too much (let's just assume she's a hallucination here for argument's sake)? Maybe. But, sreaming out loud for God's sake, this is an anime.

Precisely my point. None of the major plot devices driving this show's tragedy would work outside of anime. AnoHana is effective as anime drama, but does not have, in my opinion, sufficient legs to carry it beyond the insular confines of this genre. In that sense, I strongly feel that much of the praise it is getting is unjustified.


This is a drama. We have seen way more unrealistic stuff in other animes, we have seen way more dramatic elements in other dramas, so what is up with this talk about realism? What is realism to you anyway?

For a start, watch something like Colorful (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=104235), recommended by Reckoner, who, as far as I know, also enjoys AnoHana, much more than I do anyway.

Similar devices, involving the supernatural and the spiritual, but used vastly more effectively, because they don't dominate the story, but rather enable plot progression without distracting from the drama unfolding onscreen.

That's the kind of "realism" I enjoy, which I find lacking in AnoHana.

Again, I'm of course fully cognisant that all of our arguments stem from subjective views. But if viewers are not willing to open their perspectives to accept criticisms, then there is little room for discussion.

Which is why I normally avoid such sub-forums. The way the fanbase for such forums is built, there is usually not much space to accommodate different views. Discussion usually descends into unproductive "us"-versus-"them" debates.

guuchan
2011-05-19, 05:19
Are we going to reduce this to a sob story, trading mutual woe-is-me experiences to justify our points of view?

I lost my father, in my early 20s, when I was still in university, just as our relationship as father and son was turning for the better. I carry regrets that will stay with me for as long as I live.

So... don't go around dissing people, thinking they have not experienced as much "pain" as you do. That said, my condolences, of course.

I said that because a certain someone here suggested that the ones enjoying this show are otakus with darkness in their heart, not being able to move on in their lives (which is not true for the characters anyway). I didn't start it. *raise both hands up with innocent look*

Besides, my point was - and it's a point in general, not directed to you, TinyRedLeaf - just because you can't find yourself feeling the same as the characters feel, it doesn't mean it's not realistic. Don't stereotype yourself. I find myself understanding the characters' feelings, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Poppo maybe a bit too happy-go-lucky, Yukiatsu maybe a bit too indulged in his memories of Menma... other than Tsuruko, they are all "a bit over", but that doesn't make it unrealistic. It just becomes a bit more dramatic, that's all.

Precisely my point. None of the major plot devices driving this show's tragedy would work outside of anime. AnoHana is effective as anime drama, but does not have, in my opinion, sufficient legs to carry it beyond the insular confines of this genre. In that sense, I strongly feel that much of the praise it is getting is unjustified.

Other than the dramatic settings (and geez, it's not that dramatic. Now Yukiatsu is just crossdressing - what if he acted like a girl too? Pretending to be like Menma more than just the outlook? Are you going to curse this show if you haven't already?), I find this show pretty realistic so far. I don't get what wouldn't work... the hallucination/ghost? Friends who don't go crazy after finding out one of them is a crossdresser?

For a start, watch something like Colorful (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=104235), recommended by Reckoner, who, as far as I know, also enjoys AnoHana, much more than I do anyway.

Similar devices, involving the supernatural and the spiritual, but used vastly more effectively, because they don't dominate the story, but rather enable plot progression without distracting from the drama unfolding onscreen.

That's the kind of "realism" I enjoy, which I find lacking in AnoHana.

To be honest, I don't see how the hallucination/ghost is dominating the show. Screentime-wise she's getting quite some, but she's not really the plot-pushing device. As I said already, her appearance alone has already served her purpose, acting as a opportunity for something to happen to her group of living friends. So far there hasn't been any major change to the characters yet - when they do, I would expect more screentime for them gradually.

Again, I'm of course fully cognisant that all of our arguments stem from subjective views. But if viewers are not willing to open their perspectives to accept criticisms, then there is little room for discussion.

Which is why I normally avoid such sub-forums. The way the fanbase for such forums are built, there is usually not much space to accommodate different views. Discussion usually descends into unproductive "us"-versus-"them" debates.

Erm, same words returned to you. I admit I'm posting in this show's thread because I like the show, and usually I will finish the show once I decide to keep it unless it becomes really unbearable somewhere along, but it doesn't mean I will neccessarily end up finding it a good show just because I like the beginning. To me, Anohana got a good start, it's climbing, and I will give my criticism if it ever goes downhill like I did to some other shows. In that sense, I'm definitely on the more objective side - my opinion might change, while it seems you already got your judgment down for this show. :eyespin:

cyth
2011-05-19, 06:37
I'm sure you may not find it necessarily relateable, but there is an error you've made here. First, what do you define as "moving on?" When does a person "move on?" Is it simply, not letting interrupt you living life? Is it to not let it bear any weight on your mind? I'm sorry, but if losing a dear friend doesn't bear any weight on someone's mind, then that is something I find implausible. I n regards to continuing ot live life? Tsuruko, Anaru, Yukiatsu, Poppo have all done just that. It's only Jintan who has let his life completely slide away.None of them have really moved on in the sense that Menma's death is still an issue preventing them from achieving happiness. Menma is a reminder why they're miserable. To each his or her own, they've lost something important, not just a dear friend.
What I find especially disagreeable here are your insinuations that this is some otaku wish fulfillment. Maybe I missed it, but is this some sort of harem anime :rolleyes:? Get real here.I guess this is why otaku are eating it up, because most of them are oblivious to its main manipulative trick. Obviously, I'm stereotyping here just a little bit, but... real otaku do not live admirable lives. There's nothing great about being a basement dweller spending most of your time on the internet, watching anime, playing games and ordering merchandise. I've been there, and let me tell you this: it is not the image that Danny Choo is trying to sell you.

Why I categorize AnoHana as wish fulfillment is because it lets the relatable Jinta realize all of his former friends still have issues on the same topic of internal conflict as he has. Yukiatsu's crossdressing wasn't as shocking as it was grotesque in comparison to Jinta's problem. I can see the show playing out in the same manner for the rest of the cast, with Jinta as the main spectator of each character's breakdown.

BetoJR
2011-05-19, 08:29
How the heck is Jinta relatable? I mean, are many of us here reclusive shut-ins with deep emotional scars that impede our personal growth? I know I'm not and I don't really relate to him. I care about him, tho, and about the story and the other characters, myself (yeap, even Yukiatsu). So, wish-fulfillment is clearly not the point for everyone, at least.

And I have no problem with the "supernatural" part, either. Doesn't really matter, as long as it's a good yarn, for me. Maybe I'm wrong?

OceanBlue
2011-05-19, 09:09
None of them have really moved on in the sense that Menma's death is still an issue preventing them from achieving happiness. Menma is a reminder why they're miserable. To each his or her own, they've lost something important, not just a dear friend.
I believe Reckoner had mentioned this already, but such things are inevitable, especially for the two characters, Jintan and Yukiatsu, who believe they were responsible for Menma's death. It isn't a simple matter of, "Oh, my childhood crush died. Now I'll do ridiculous things to overcome my sorrow." They both believe they killed Menma.

That being said, cross-dressing is still a very strange idea, and something that definitely needs explanation. I'm going to reserve judgement on it until I understand completely why it happened. I don't think people can just attribute it to Yukiatsu being sad though.

Tsuruko and Anaru don't seem to have exaggerated problem with Menma's death. Tsuruko so far only mentions it as something that has already passed, and Anaru shows a reasonable amount of sentiment for someone close who passed away five years ago. We still don't know much about Poppo, but he seems to take the, "Bringing back Menma," thing as something that would be good, not something that would cure his emotional scars.

If anything, I'd say that the only reason it seems like every character is so bothered by it is because we see things from Jintan and Menma's point of view.

Similar devices, involving the supernatural and the spiritual, but used vastly more effectively, because they don't dominate the story, but rather enable plot progression without distracting from the drama unfolding onscreen.

That's the kind of "realism" I enjoy, which I find lacking in [I]AnoHana.

Again, I'm of course fully cognisant that all of our arguments stem from subjective views. But if viewers are not willing to open their perspectives to accept criticisms, then there is little room for discussion.
If anything, I'd say the problem lies in your use of the term "realism", rather than any sort of subjective view. It's entirely plausible in the circumstances that these characters find themselves for the self-cognitive ghost to wonder why she can only interact with one person and for this character to want her old friends to bond again.

I can accept that Yukiatsu cross-dressing is really unrealistic [again, I'm personally suspending judgement] and I can accept that you don't like how involved Menma is with the drama [a lot of people have already said that they were bothered how the plot wouldn't have moved forward without Menma], but I don't understand how Menma being so involved in the drama is unrealistic.

Edit: Just to explain, when you say, "That's the kind of 'realism' I enjoy, which I find lacking in Anohana," it suggests that supernatural elements that don't dominate the story is the only kind of realistic supernatural story. I don't believe how supernatural elements affect drama has anything to do with realism [in the context we're discussing it, anyway].

Also, I will check out that recommendation. Thank you.

cyth
2011-05-19, 09:50
So, wish-fulfillment is clearly not the point for everyone, at least.Neither does Mad Men purposely target women who just like seeing good-looking men in decent suits, but primarily it's a modern male power fantasy. I was specifically talking about why otaku are eating it up.

erneiz_hyde
2011-05-19, 09:54
Disclaimer:Everything what I write below is IMO.
and why is everyone still doubting that menma is a ghost? we see her withought jinta being anywhere near her.

Why does everyone here seems ignorant of umineko? Perhaps I'll explain again briefly, how the "Schrodinger Box" concept works in cases like these. Simply put, a "Schrodinger Box" themed story revolves around: looking at particular results and interpolating possible events that could've lead to said conclusions. Umineko used witches and magics to explain the murders in the story, AnoHana used the phenomenon called "Menma". However, AnoHana didn't play it like Umineko did. It only replicates a smaller aspect of it.

For instance, Jintan eating that cake? It could be made by him, and then ate it himself while reminiscing his mother and Menma. The door at Menma's house? It could be that it was actually loose and a wind blew it open. People feeling weight around their shoulders? It could really originated from fatigue. Jinta knew about the hairpin? It is possible that Jinta stopped running and looked at the confession scene for a while, and resumed running afterward. Every single scene with Menma in it can be explained without her actually taking part in it (at least, so far).

Though again, this is merely theory. Menma could really be a corporeal ghost that only Jin can perceive. The point is that this theory is as plausible as the Jintan=idiot theory.

However, I can tell that this is a story about a group of people trying to move on with their lives after a tragedy befell them all. Any other thing is really just spices to freshen things up a bit, and it's best not to dwell too much on them.

ipodi
2011-05-19, 10:23
Which is why I normally avoid such sub-forums. The way the fanbase for such forums is built, there is usually not much space to accommodate different views. Discussion usually descends into unproductive "us"-versus-"them" debates.

The plot devices are clearly manipulative, and the problems you mentioned about Menma are spot on - they make the series almost like a chick-flick.

On the other hand, I think many of us enjoy the series for its human interactions. I think whether one will ultimately enjoys this series really comes down to which aspect of the show is more important to you.

As a side note, I found Colorful unbearable - just a personal opinion.

Haak
2011-05-19, 11:13
How the heck is Jinta relatable? I mean, are many of us here reclusive shut-ins with deep emotional scars that impede our personal growth?

Yes, though no where near his level. But you're right. I'm sure you don't need to actually experience their pain to empathise with them.

Controlled experiments. Sure, if you're so inclined, you can always come up with alternative explanations. Even if they have to become progressively sillier as evidence piles up. But really, do the Busters look like they're that reticent to believe in Menma's ghost?

Fair enough. The group would certainly be willing to believe it, though the doubt will always be there and they are somewhat less inclined to change.


Well, it would make a rather large difference on whether he should get himself checked into a hospital or not...

I doubt he would get himself checked into a hospital anyway.

Reckoner
2011-05-19, 13:36
How the heck is Jinta relatable? I mean, are many of us here reclusive shut-ins with deep emotional scars that impede our personal growth? I know I'm not and I don't really relate to him. I care about him, tho, and about the story and the other characters, myself (yeap, even Yukiatsu). So, wish-fulfillment is clearly not the point for everyone, at least.

And I have no problem with the "supernatural" part, either. Doesn't really matter, as long as it's a good yarn, for me. Maybe I'm wrong?

I think it's silly to disregard the show's attempts to play up on the nostalgic chords of its audience. That's what makes this show relateable. Has everyone gone through Jintan's pain? I would think most of us have not lost one of their dear friends and their mother while growing up, while feeling guilty for causing his friend's death. But since when does the audience ever have to actually go through the troubles of a character to empathize and understand? With this logic, there are almost no relateable characters in anime :heh:.

None of them have really moved on in the sense that Menma's death is still an issue preventing them from achieving happiness. Menma is a reminder why they're miserable. To each his or her own, they've lost something important, not just a dear friend.

Well 3 of them feel like they caused Memma's death. I think Jintan is obvious because of this and his mother's death, that he really isn't happy. Yukiatsu has an inferiority complex with Jintan. Anaru likes Jintan and is pained to see him in such a situation. I think they all have very plausible reaosns for still being a bit miserable, 10 years down the road.

The ball is still out on Tsuruko. Poppo doesn't seem miserable. In fact, he seems like the one character to not be emotionally scarred to death by this all incident.

I guess this is why otaku are eating it up, because most of them are oblivious to its main manipulative trick. Obviously, I'm stereotyping here just a little bit, but... real otaku do not live admirable lives. There's nothing great about being a basement dweller spending most of your time on the internet, watching anime, playing games and ordering merchandise. I've been there, and let me tell you this: it is not the image that Danny Choo is trying to sell you.

All I'm saying is that this trick doesn't just apply to otakus. It's not what I'd call specifically otaku pandering which only works on otakus. It's something that has broad appeal. Usually, otaku pandering is something general audiences would find annoying due to lack of understanding, or even being offended by some of those elements.

Why I categorize AnoHana as wish fulfillment is because it lets the relatable Jinta realize all of his former friends still have issues on the same topic of internal conflict as he has. Yukiatsu's crossdressing wasn't as shocking as it was grotesque in comparison to Jinta's problem. I can see the show playing out in the same manner for the rest of the cast, with Jinta as the main spectator of each character's breakdown.

And that's fine. I don't deny that this show is supposed to play up on that. It's emotionally appealing precisely because many people have experienced the distancing of old friends when they grow up. While the show surely goes to extremes to portray this (Yukiatu's cross dressing), the underlying thoughts are still there.

We still don't know how the rest of this show will play out, but I don't think anyone is as screwed up as Yukiatsu and Jintan (I certainly hope not). There's no real indication of that.

Guardian Enzo
2011-05-19, 17:20
I sympathize with you, TRL, as someone who had major issues with Bakemonogotari and Eden of the East (just to name two). Once a show is popular enough to get a sub-forum there comes a point of diminishing returns in dismissing it's worth outright - it's an upstream swim.

That said, I happen to think you're completely wrong about this one - it's easily the best show of the season for me (and maybe the year so far). I have no issues with Menma as a plot device and I think this is more or less a classic example of magical realism brilliantly executed. And frankly, it's nice - though quite disorienting - for me to be on the same side as public opinion for once... ;)

CWW
2011-05-19, 18:20
I can relate to Jinta because I lost my mother as well. Moreso because I can see her in my dreams once in a while even now. That's largely the reason why how Menma is used doesn't bother me much. It's a plot device, one that is far from realistic, I agree, but I can mostly see through it as Japanese storytelling and focus on Jinta's and everyone's struggles, as that is the main focus of the story. You can call it wish-fulfillment, but I dearly hope Jinta and the rest will have a special place for her in their hearts and won't forget her even if they've moved on, because that would be the saddest thing.

Well, everyone except that sicko Yukiatsu. ;)

BetoJR
2011-05-20, 10:48
Well, I guess it's a matter of semantics, then. I don't find Jinta relatable, but I am sympathetic toward him and the other characters. In the end, I guess it's still the same feeling, yes?

Rushberry
2011-05-24, 07:51
Love Hotel on this episode is real

too bad the image link is dead so the image don't appear

but this is the link : http://s2.kimag.es/share/59138701.jpg (yeah, this link is dead)

bananapills
2012-06-25, 18:40
There's something I really don't understand in this episode, when Naruko "Anaru" Anjō and that dirty guy are standing in front of the love hotel he says something like: "Wouldn't it be a waste though? They're black aren't they?"
What is he talking about?

bananapills
2013-07-07, 13:25
There's something I really don't understand in this episode, when Naruko "Anaru" Anjō and that dirty guy are standing in front of the love hotel he says something like: "Wouldn't it be a waste though? They're black aren't they?"
What is he talking about?^ Anyone? (It's somewhere around 15:20)

sky black swordman
2013-07-07, 18:27
^ Anyone? (It's somewhere around 15:20)

He is talking about her panties. Wearing black panties, implies that she wants to have sex. However, that is a common misconception.

bananapills
2013-07-08, 08:06
He is talking about her panties. Wearing black panties, implies that she wants to have sex. However, that is a common misconception.Ok. Thanks!